Congress passes energy bill, Bush to sign it tomorrow

All I can say is President Bush for 4 more years :)

BTW, what's up with the dude in the photo with a circle around his head and with a nasty scowl on his face?

o_O

Do you want to get shot?

You've gotta be kidding.

I'm never kidding when it comes to President Bush ;)

Did you know 9/11 was planned when Bill Clinton was in office?

Why was he so angry at Clinton?

o_O

And what is wrong with that?

O_o

Did you know, that the Bush administration ignored advice give to him Al Qaeda by the Clinton administration, and plans to fly planes into buildings. Oh and 9/11 happen on his watch.

I would like to know why congress and the president feels it needs to get on this bandwagon and force down the american peoples throat (and the world for that matter) somthing the public was doing on its own in the past couple of years.

SUV sales have declined, new superclean diesels are finally appearing in the US, Hybrid technology is on the cusp of delivering 100mpg city driving. All this was done without congress and the presidents intervention.

However in just those same past years congress and the exeutive branch have decided to mandate not ONE but TWO massive automotive authorizations...Corn based Ethanol and now the NEW CAFE standads. Does congress and the president hate free trade (obviously they do since the dollar is worth as much as a square of toliet paper). Do they think the people of the world are stupid and don't care about their environment. Do they want to increase unemployment among automanufacturers and destroy jobs. Perhaps they want to make sure noone but those who have tons of money can eat.

What ever it is these past two mandates are quite possibly the most foolish thing congress has done to the auto industry since the 70's. And we all remember how well that turned out didn't we. Go ole' price controls (which did nothing but make stuff more expensive for the average american) and that wonderful speed limit sign we now see in almost every state...

55MPH.

Yeah, lets go throught that again. It wasn't fun enought the first time around.

kaisersozedude--spot on!

Lets see, if the government never got involved in the car industry, what would it be like?

No smog equipment, so kiss, DOHC engines and fuel injection goodbye, engine electronics I don't thinks so.

Safety equipment is gone, safety glass, seat belt airbags-nope.

Say Hello to carburetors and death traps.

The free market is always best left alone!

dude. if you actually drive close to the speed limit on highways, you're probably saving gas. I had the balls to try it a few times on cruise control. And it's true! Who would have thought.

How easily people seem to give up their freedoms here in the US.

My key issue is with congressional and presidential mandates that don't come from the will of the people.

The great thing about the US is CHOICE. I can choose to do one thing or another. The second a mandate comes down (no matter how good it sounds) that choice is erased.

Just like most people on this site I don't like big huge gas spewing behemoths on the road. However my issue is with the govenement telling me that I can't drive this vehicle any more, rather than allowing me to make this decision as an ethical contributing member of society myself.

And for those people who think Politicians are doing this for the greater good...HA. I am a DC native and politicians never do anything that dosen't help them get re-elected or secure more money. I'f people think I am one of those shill for the oil companies (SoSnootySo) read my prior posts would see I'm not even close to a shill for the oil companies...as a matter of fact I'm a huge proponent for bio-diesel.

1995e34

1970's conditions were poor becuase the US supported the Isralies in the Yom Kippur War and the Saudis got pissed at us so they embargoed oil. This is the first step that tied together the government actions and the oil crisis.

The US people should not have been punished for what the government had done. But they were. And Yes it caused us to switch to smaller cars that were more efficient, which the Japanese had the market cornered in, but this was not the US auto manufacturers fault(can't believe I'm actually defending the big three). As far as the US manufacturers were concerned they knew there was oil the next day, and the day after, and the day after...etc. And the oil was cheap so why not continue making boats that inhale it. To most thats quite practical...why build a better mousetrap when the one you have works fine. Remember this was way before the eco movment so gas emmisions and particiulates weren't even a concept yet. This was basically an act of god against the auto industry.

You mentioned forsight and feds...true forsight would have been for the US NOT to put all its egg's in one basket (this still hasn't changed to this day and which is why we went to war back in '91) and be entirly relient on middle eastern oil. Sort of like diversifying your personal portfolio. They would have encentivised the oil producers to seek new areas to drill.

So yes I blame the feds for the oil crisis in the 70's and the fall out afterwards (they don't take all the blame obviously, the OPEC nations get 50% of it). From the support of Israel in the war(which they had to do anyway) through the congressional fuel mandates to the presidential appointee making the foolish 55MPH speed limit. Mandates were only the second part of a problem created by the federal govt earlier, however they were the problem most felt at home. This did NOT originate from the auto manufacturers (there I go a

Waste gas?

Not being rude, just would like an explination.

1995e34

HAHA, nice one. I'll give you a boost for that.

I should have stated my question better. When I asked about wasting gas.

What I was actually asking about was ...whom do you think is wasting gas. The american public or US government, etc...

I think I see where we diverge in our thought process. If I'm not mistaken you believe that the public is wasting gas driving SUV's and other fuel in-efficient vehicles. And I would have agreed with you about two years ago. Hurricane Katrina changed all that. One of the massive side efficect of that storm was the huge raise in gas prices (we went from 2.50 to 4+ dollars overnight)which have never really come down. Because in actuality gas prices should have been that high to begin with. The prices are actually artificially low here in the US, similar to how E85's prices are artificially low due to tax brakes and massive subsidies. However ever since the hurrincane peoples purchasing and buying habbits have changed. Look at SUV sales since then...it's been a downward spiral. Everyone is now planning their trips and daily commutes (especially around here) based on fuel and even purcahsing their vehicles based on it as well. As a matter of fact it has become a key selling point by auto manufacturers to tout how much a vehicle in their lineup makes in city/highway. So I don't think we are currently wasting fuel as such.

The Sailor:

Your second paragraph says it all. It always scares me when people say:

"This is a way to force these people into doing the right thing!"

If it's the right thing than most people will do it anyway. If you force people to do the 'right thing' does it really make it the right thing? In this case the US is not only forcing the amercican public to do the 'right thing' its also forcing the rest of the nations that produce vehciles to do 'the right thing'. So this bill effectivly impacts

England
France
Italy
Germany
China
Japan
Korea
Sweden

And as to you third paragraph...I didn't vote congressmen into office to raise CAFE standards. Did anyone here do that? I sure as heck don't remember that topic being on the campaign packet for where each officals political stance was. In reality the Democrats were put into office to do one thing and one thing only...end the war. Which they didn't end up doing because the President decided to "Force these people into doing the right thing" and veto'd the bill.

Now as to how politicians are benifiting from this...everyone on this site who supports this measure is proving my point quite well I think. It is called "Greenwashing" and politicians have been jumping on this banner left and right. They make big, grandiose decisions that look like their super environmentally conscious to the average lay person who gets their news from CNN and the Washington Post, but if you dig a little deeper you realize its nothing but a sham used to polish their image up for re-election. And in most cases

(cut off)...hurts the US economy (and in this case the world economy) much more than it helps the environment.

As I said before, Corn based E85 is another one of these "Greenwashes" that at least most people on this site recognise for being the sham it is.

'nuff said

This is one of very few things that Bush can be admired for.

I'm scared for our performance cars, though.

As am I...

The expression on the guys face circle, rather amusing :3

They'll be exceptions to the rule...

Bad Idea. This is not a good thing for any automaker, domestic or abroad.

Agree

Are some of you guys shills for the auto industry? This bill is a step in the right direction. CAFE standards of 35mpg are for 2020. Most companies like Honda get better mpg with every new engine advancement. Look at the new accord, it gets like 30 on the new mpg tests. By 2020, we'll probably have lighter, stronger, durable materials. We'll have better engines and we'll have cleaner types of fuel to burn. Get over yourselves.

I forgot to mention. It'd be nice to know who the 100 congressman are whom voted against the bill. It kinda tips us off to which people are bought and paid for by the auto companies.

Lobbying is a part of how the government works, whether you like it or not. Obviously, they did not lobby well enought because this stupid law passed.

Bush's face looks like he is trying to stall while he remembers how to spell his name.. "G..E.R... no, does anybody have any white out"?

the dreams I may hope for will be a gruesome future.

So, why this? Why now? Well to quote Democratic Senator from California, Barbara Boxer, “Elections have consequences”. How hauntingly ironic a statement coming from her. All of you who thought you were smart by voting in a Democrat controlled House of Representatives and Senate can rejoice in your choice. You were warned that if these people were given power, they would carry out the agenda of the radicalized environmentalist movement.

This bill exists today because of the pressure put on politicians of all stripes by the wieght of the Great Global Warming Hoax, the wild-eyed notions of the Sierra Club, and the nattering anti-capitalist untertow of the environmentalist special interests who seemingly think we should all be living in grass huts and riding bycycles like the happy Chinese in third-world paradise.

Unfortunately, the once strong legislators on the right side of the isle from the "Contract With America" Gingrich era have lost their spines and caved in to the pressures as well. While the new bill is being heralded by the Left as a great deal for the earth, it will come at the cost of our country’s manufacturing complex, our choice as consumers, our economy and likely our safety on the roads.

So where do we go from here? Lets look back at history. In the 1970’s when the government cracked down on the automobile both in emissions and with CAFÉ standards, what happened? We got smaller, less powerful, less desirable cars that were quite honestly crap we all tried to forget. The American auto industry went through its first wave of losing its prominence. Lives were lost as consumers were forced into smaller cars that did not protect them as well in accidents. All of this in the name of efficiency.

My prediction is that history will repeat itself. Ford , GM and Chrysler will begin to drop high performance cars in the very near future and replace cars like the Mustang, STS-V's, SRT-8's with smaller models with four cylinder engines just as they did with the 1970's. All the talk of BOSS V8’s, Hemis, twin turbos and superchargers will go away and MPG will be king.

Our choice as consumers is being taken away. Our choice as enthusiasts is being taken way. Our government in the "Land Of The Free" is acting to tell manufacturers what they can and cannot build, and likely devastating them financially in the process.

And in the end the whole catastrophe has been brought about in part by lies and mis-guided notions of anti-capitalist leftist hysteria, junk science soothsaying, and a spineless run to the shadows by those who should have stood up for what is right.

It’s sad really. It is why the saying goes, “You deserve what you voted for”.

Oh, and in the event you might think I blame this outcome squarely on the left, President George Bush has been on board with this disastrous legislation from the outset. We all know he has an established track record of giving the American auto industry the cold shoulder, and this is just the icing on the cake.

Perhaps he has a false hope that it will help ease public perception that Republicans are obstructionists to environmental and progressive energy legislation in the coming election year.

In any case, the one person who could have been our last hope to stop this left-wing nuclear bomb aimed at the auto industry has let America down.

Yeah even I don't think this was brought about through a "left wing" agenda. A 314-100 vote is pretty bi-partisan here in DC.

Another question this raises is how could they pass this in the same year they pass E85 increases? E85 while being cleaner decreases mpg in cars by ~30% I hear. Does congress and the president really hate the US auto industry that much? Or is it they actually don't care of the consequences one bills outcome has on another bills outcome. I think we need one of those medication alert messages for congress...the ones that say "if already taking X do not combine with Y...it may lead to severe vomiting, rashes, rectal bleeding or death...of an economy."


In reality congress couldn't solve immigration problems and Iraq hasn't been dominating the new lately, so they had to find another flavor of the month.