Will The New Crop Of Diesels Embarass The Hybrid Crowd?

i don't think you can speculate to much yet. i would give it a few more years before we can declare one toppling the other.

but one autospies...it will be Euro for diesels and Japan hybrid.

on*

I tend to agree

Yes, the new diesels will be competitive with the hybrids in many categories (MPG, emissions, cost of ownership/maintenance). And a diesel-hybrid would be even more impressive! These are all parallel hybrid designs (including the Prius). Does any one know why series hybrids don't seem to be viable for passenger cars? (The diesel-electric railroad locomotive is an example of a series-hybrid.)

Great review, I agree...but then again we are comparing petrol/hybrid to one that is completely diesel. Out of curiosity what are the pollution ratings for the German vehicle on petrol alone if you were to compare to the LS460/600hl heads up? The ideal combo at the end of the day would be a hybrid/diesel engine, which I am sure Lexus will be the 1st to come up with one in their segment...and by the way German fan boys, I am talking a true V8 hybrid/diesel...not the V6 version that MB mated with in their S-Class line up(which is more so to over shadow the fact of better fuel efficiency b/c MB can't figure out the solution on a true mated technology V8 in this model segment)...Booo!!!..."F-L-A-M-E O-N!!!!"...LMAO!!!

" I am talking a true V8 hybrid/diesel...not the V6 version that MB mated with in their S-Class line up(which is more so to over shadow the fact of better fuel efficiency b/c MB can't figure out the solution on a true mated technology V8 in this model segment)"


A Lexus fanboy has spoken!

Why employ a V8 when you could potentially get the same performance from a lighter V6 coupled to better fuel economy?

Lexus is shooting itself in the foot with their marketing hype. The LS600h has been a big flop in terms of what it was hyped up to be. It's neither green nor does it come close to the factory stated performance quotas.

obviously you would call "Lexus" out as the "1st to dominate the hybrid-diesel segment"...b/c you're a Lexus fanboy. First of all, Lexus only sells diesels in Europe b/c of that's basically the only way to get sales there.
MB didn't mate a V8 w/ a hybrid b/c of a "lack of technology." You really must be a teenager to claim that. Considering MB's innovation in the DiesOtto engine, which Lexus hasn't even probly thought about yet, you are extremely ignorant. They combined a V6 w/ a hybrid for REAL FUEL ECONOMY, unlike your poser Lexus LS600hL which doesn't satisfy expectations of fuel economy or speed. Once again, MB could do it with a V8, but obviously, to give their customers real satisfaction by focusing on what a HYBRID IS INTENDED FOR - fuel economy, not "performance" or what not.

Just a small correction, Monk. Lexus doesn't sells "diesels" in Europe, they sell only a diesel: the IS220d. There's no diesel engine available for all other Lexus models in Europe. They're simply sold with their inefficient and gas-guzzling, non-Euro environment suited engines.

The engine of the IS220d itself is sourced from the Toyota Avensis.

Of course "Lexus" would be the first brand brought up in an article about hybrids "vs." diesels. You people and your spite amaze me. The Lexus hybrids should not be compared in the first place. They're not full-potential hybrids. They're hybrids that walk a tight-rope between efficiency and performance. Why not talk about full-potential hybrids like the Prius, which is reported to reach way above the already widely-reported 40mpg come the next generation?

Yes. I cannot wait to get into my BMW 335d. I have driven a BMW 535d and it had great power! I drove it like a maniac and averaged 43 MPG. If I drove normal, I could get close to 50 probably. I really dont know how the entrance of more diesel engines will affect gas prices. Also, hopefully there is no premium to buy a diesel engine.

this is only the beginning of the explosion of diesel sales in the US. acceleration, handling AND fuel economy that bests a prius. will be VERY appealing to LOTS of people.

This story could have been written 2 years ago, in fact I'm sure it was (in some form). And we just keep waiting. Where r they??? Meanwhile, hybrids have saved millions of barrels of oil and have emitted near zero emissions for about a decade. (Ive been driving all day thru wine country, averaging 53mpg.) By the time these diesels finally show up on our shores, Toyota will be on G4 Hybrid Synergy Drive.

Everyone talks about hybrid "hype." This new generation of diesels has been hyped for so long now that fatigue is really starting to set in. Ya know if they ever do show up in vast numbers can you imagine how expensive the fuel will be? Its already consistently 20-40 cents higher. Add a couple million diesels to the road and fuggedaboutit. You'll be paying a couple thou more for the engine, 50-60 cents more per gallon for the fuel, will still be emitting more smog pollutants than most gasoline engines, you'll still have greasy diesel spills at the pump, all for just adequate performance and marginaly better CO2 emiisions. Honestly, is there any reason y'all love these things, other than the fact that they are not hybrids made by Toyota?

The current crop of Mercedes wil not be CA legal in 2 years, which is why thy are onlyoffering alimited number for 2 year leases. The next gen engine is said to meet the stricter standards, which is my point, we are still waiting for the miraculous clean diesels. Alo, for some reason, auto reviewers seem to have no problem sacrificing performance in diesels. The Eclass may have gotten 31mpg, but it did not do so getting 0-60 in 5.4 seconds like the GS450h can do. And let's not forget that the savings of highee mpg dieseks are offset by the more expensive fuel. The great thing about hybrids is that they are increasingly lessening dependnce on any amount of fuel, and doing so in record time. Its taken 100 years to get these so-called clean diesels, or it will be over 100 years by the time they get here. Even Europeans are seeing the light, as the Prius and Lexus hybrids are selling well, and many Euro mfrs are soon to begin selling hybrids.

sorry, forgot to spell check.....

Oh, and as for the pay off time, those figures have been disputed, even 009 has posted updated a more realistic picture (just a few weeks ago). The Prius will pay off its premium in just a few years, with the Camry taking not much longer. Gas has been averaging around $3 for months now, and it is only going up, my 53mpg Prius makes more and more economic sense all the time.

Who cares if the GS450h does 0-60 in 5.4 seconds? I couldn't care less about 0-60 times. I didn't buy my car because of its low 0-60 time for example. 0-60 is useless in everyday driving. Midrange acceleration is more important and useful - and the E320 CDI has very impressive midrange performance. Even its 0-60 time is more than adequate. The consumers who look at these cars are primarily interested in fuel economy, not performance.

And European "are not seeing the light". Hybrid sales are slowly increasing in Europe but they're not a sales success. The Prius and especially the Lexus hybrids don't perform well fuel eocnomy wise in mixed driving for European conditions.

The Germans drove these cars in a European style environment. This is where Lexus cars tend to perform poorly sorely because of their poor fuel economy. The more fuel you burn, the more emissions you emit.

European style environment is meant to describe country roads (and elevation), state roads and highway, basically mixed driving conditions.

Remember the Autobild S600 vs LS600h comparison? The LS600h only achieved good fuel economy in the city while on the Autobahn at a steady 180 kph, the LS600h actually needed more fuel than the S600 (32 liters compared to 29.8 liters of the S600).

Lexus, the passionate pursuit of false marketing.

Take a look at Honda's diesel commercial (kinda old by now), but when it came out, it caused quite a stir. Honda, king of high revs and no torque, came out with a class leading diesel engine. When the largest engine maker in the world finally starts to be serious about diesels...watch out! And the new Honda diesel wll not require you to pull to the side of the road and pee in a tank ;-p
This bodes well for diesels:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puGvk1RgmrE

Is that "Bosch" I see written on the side of that Honda? Oh dear Lord!

diesel is coming on the accord @ 09...

diesel is coming on the accord @ 09...

MidEngine are you saying that's a good or bad thing? Or are you just trying to provide insight?

Again, and? Are you implying Honda is stinky if it were not for the wonderful Germans?

Honda does take in great tech from everywhere - it's called outsourcing and it's done for many reasons (as opposed to a supposed incompetence they have), It often puts it's own spin on it over time to make the acquired tech even better. A short time ago Honda had no suvs, but after badge engineering an Izuzu (a blemish in Hondas history to be sure) Honda entered the market late but with valuable experience - and now CRVs are everywhere. Another example is with Ballard. Honda improved its fuel cell tech considerably and it will have the first 'real' fuel cell car on the roads in a few months.

I hear their diesels are the best from Japan.

what about Isuzus? I wanna see the turbodiesel boxer from Subaru into the outback or forester. but its only gonna be in Europe.

This is good?

Oh Huu, oh Huu...one of these days I am going to give up on you.

You can answer that question yourself as to why diesels are not sold here. Perception is the main point. People still think of 1970s-style diesels when they hear that word.

You're kidding yourself if you think hybrids are "green". They're not. Toyota was always good at marketing though...

"VW should be able to gouge another 2 or 3 thousand once they stick the Blumotion tag on their cars."

maybe VW is taking a lesson from lexus. lexus is able to "gouge" $32,000 out of an LS600 buyer for a hybrid-tagged car that gets the SAME mileage as the LS460. hmmm....

I love how all these "Japanese Hybrid Fans" were gloating left and right about hybrids for a couple of years, and now that the "TRUTH" is out (Hybrids not being what they claimed to be), now they're talking about "Japanese Diesels".
You guys are f***ing hilarious.... Aren't you ashamed?

They don't know what they're talking about, hence the loony comments!

I think we should leave huu 76 to his own devices...i'm just hoping that autospies will still be around when there is wide spread use of diesel hybrids..if he thinks that gas hybrids are the future he is sorely mistaken..Diesels are for now (and possibly hybrids like the prius)..conserve more on gas easier to maintain than the complex hybrid technology..The behemoths such as the tahoe hybrid etc makes no sense..a diesel is a better engine for these vehicles..The future is diesel hybrids..so when that happens i would love to hear what he has to say...

A diesel engine is more efficient than a gas engine irregardless of whether or not we use electric motors to aid in propulsion. As far as I have heard, all hybrids sold in America include a gas engine, which means the internal combustion engine part of the propulsion is inferior to a diesel engine that could take its place.

A diesel engine doesn't need to run on diesel fuel, so we can knock off all the diesel fuel assessments to arrive at false conclusions that diesels are unfeasible. It can run on 100% renewable fuel without modification or any blend between 0-100 percent; without loss in fuel economy; and consumers choosing these renewable blends can further reduce the carbon footprint.