Lexus GS-F: how much power?

Okay. It seems pretty certain that after the IS-F, the GS-F will be the next step for Lexus.

When I spoke to some Lexus-guys last week, they all confirmed they are working on a new F-model. Naturally, they did not want to tell which one that is, but I knew to persuade them in telling me it is an existing model. That wasn't much of a surprise either but with this information, it is just a matter of logics again to find out which one it can be.

RX-F would be fun, but is very unlikely, plus a new model is on its way.
LS-F would be crazy as it is probably way too luxurious ever to be truly sporty.
SC-F could well be possible, but the model is too much of a niche yet and both 7 years old by now.

Rests us with the GS-F. An obvious choice perhaps, as there is some good competition in this segment as well (you know who).
The engine-availability could be an obvious choice too, as Lexus have their V10 (LF-A, remember) available. It's for sure that this powerhouse fits the IS engine-bay, so the GS shouldn't be too difficult either.

Then there is the question when the car could be unveiled. The IS-F has taken about three years from idea to introduction, but as this was the first F-model it will have taken longer than usual.
I guess they are working half a year on the new car now. So my guess would be it will be there in a year or a year and half. Mid 2009 should be fine.

However, what we seem to forget here, is that a new GS is planned soon. It is expected that a new F-model will have to wait for the new series, so it might take little longer. According to several sources the new GS is planned for 2010, so it's likely that it will be introduced with the GS-F right from the beginning.

Last but not least the question is what specs it will get.
The V10 is said to have 450-500 bhp in LF-A-spec, but should be capable of more, I would say.

As the IS-F was just a little bit more powerfull than the M3, it seems obvious that Lexus would do the same to the GS-F compared to the M5. That particular car has 507 PS.

So what should the GS-F have?

ISF-insider
www.isf-blog.com

sold2early - 2/8/2008 11:53:25 AM

+3 Boost

1200.

CLK63BlackSeries - 2/8/2008 12:46:05 PM

+5 Boost

LMAO!

jeeka715 - 2/8/2008 12:16:10 PM

+10 Boost

xdrive,
I agree. But that does not mean that they can't prepare to 'hit the ground running' if it does well. If the IS-F doesn't do 'well', we'll just get an article one day saying that the GS-F is being 'rethought'.....

Many companies have killed projects that we never even hear about.

enthusiastx11 - 2/8/2008 12:05:44 PM

-3 Boost

lexus plays marketing games like no other.

the LFA has been on it's way for 4 years now.

sure the GS-F is right around the corner. somewhere around 2012.

DaHarder - 2/8/2008 12:18:10 PM

+8 Boost

"the LF-A has been on it's way for 4 years now"

Let's Not Exaggerate Too Much Here.

The LF-A Concept was first displayed in 2005, which is hardly 4 years.

Kinger - 2/8/2008 12:32:21 PM

+4 Boost

Yeah, for a while you had people believing you were for real, now you'll have to get another logon like houstoncutie3000 or something...

M53R - 2/8/2008 12:43:54 PM

+4 Boost

Basically, the joke is over.

theoptimisticpessimist - 2/8/2008 1:26:55 PM

+1 Boost

"Since the GS was awarded the best sports sedan award in its class" What? Where? When. I think you just imagined that. Looking it up you'll find it's fiction.

Hwany - 2/8/2008 3:37:42 PM

+2 Boost

lol go play with ur daddy's cheap-ass IS250.

Porschinator - 2/8/2008 5:11:57 PM

+1 Boost

Josh..what is this mysterious comparison you are talking about? Don't talk unless you have a link or reference bro.

Let me guess it was on a Lexus Blog Forum??? lol

ILikeLambo - 2/9/2008 1:51:24 AM

+3 Boost

you don't need an education you can just be a lexus salesman,lol

DROOPYSAKK - 2/8/2008 12:22:13 PM

-4 Boost

co-sign xdrive

VISO - 2/8/2008 3:32:40 PM

+4 Boost

Wait a second Josh. In another blog you stated you were 12 years old. Now in less than a month you are 14? You must be living on another plant that spins much faster than Earth to achieve that! The gig is up Houstoncutie.

Anthony - 2/8/2008 12:22:37 PM

+6 Boost

So expect a 509-hp GS-F along with the new GS some time in 2010.

One of the clearest concerns here would be the introduction of a new 5-Series as well, along with a new M5, which BMW will probably give a big hp increased due to the RS6.

lyonboy - 2/8/2008 12:24:26 PM

+1 Boost

The GS is what? Someone needs new medication.

Heyhuub - 2/8/2008 12:48:22 PM

+2 Boost

You're a funny guy.

lexusis350 - 2/8/2008 12:47:37 PM

+4 Boost

I don't think anyone should rule out the possibility that it might just be the LS that gets the F treatment. Afterall, the GS is already 2 years old so it seems like a waste to put all that money into a GS-F if they're just going to redesign it after a year or two it's been out. The LS has only been out for 1 year so the LS-F wouldn't need to be redesigned almost immediately like the GS-F would. Plus, Mercedes has the S65 AMG. An ultra-luxury sport sedan isn't too out of the question.

lexusis350 - 2/8/2008 6:21:36 PM

+3 Boost

Come to think of it, isn't the RX going to be all-new for 2009? Maybe Lexus is working on an RX-F based on the redesigned RX coming out soon. My point is: no one is for sure that it's going to be the GS. It most likely will, but you never know.

theoptimisticpessimist - 2/8/2008 1:31:01 PM

-2 Boost

This actually make good sense. Bring a slightly detuned version of the LF-A V10 the GS bringing it to the masses (relatively speaking) and lower production price of the V10. A great way to expand the F line.

Whelan - 2/8/2008 1:34:12 PM

+4 Boost

At least with the IS you can somewhat put its attributes to sportiness. The IS350 is a decent car. But the LS is pure rolling luxury. No I'm not touting it as the greatest end all be all, nore am I bowing to the MB. But the LS has never been the sports car. The S class has an edge there.

I would go GS-F on this. It will be comparable to the RS6 and new M5 coming out. And yes the GS has been out for two years which means come year 3 to 4 there will be a freshen up of the design as most cars do with a 5 year cycle. So it could come out with the freshen up right when the new 5 is debuted.

S4cabriofoxone - 2/8/2008 1:37:34 PM

0 Boost

Sorry to all who this offends, but the idea of this car doesn't excite me in the least.

It's a very "copy-and-paste" formula, but by then the Germans will have moved on to 600hp. Unlike the IS-F, let's hope this car can set itself apart with something other than strange styling details.

Anthony - 2/8/2008 2:07:17 PM

0 Boost

It is not a really hard formula to follow: stuff a big engine with lots of hp and torque into a regular model and make it more sport-oriented. The 8-speed transmission and styling ques are the very things that set the IS-F apart from the rest, but go figure, those are heavily criticized.

So many times is Lexus criticized for "copy-and-pasting.' Instead of just rehashing that argument over and over again, why not suggest what it is Lexus can do to "set itself apart?"

S4cabriofoxone - 2/8/2008 3:35:08 PM

0 Boost

It would be easily forgivable if they stood out in terms of driving fun, but the fact that the IS-F is (and GS-F will be) an also-ran, i have no desire to own one. And yes, believe it or not, I am shopping in this class.

BTW, the eight-speed has been praised by the press. It's a great transmission.

But anyway, the idea of a luxo hot rod has been made so common by the Germans that this Lexus would have to either A) offer prodigious amounts of power and torque (RS6) or B) class-leading dynamics (M5) to get my vote. Sadly, it probably won't offer either.

JUGNU - 2/8/2008 4:23:26 PM

-1 Boost

"but by then the Germans will have moved on to 600hp"

Lot of exaggeration there, Isn’t it.

Tell me which current Lexus engine is not competitive with the Germans.

Start from IS250 which can rival MB C200K and BMW 320i/323i.

IS300 (available in our region with 230BHP) competes with 325i/328i and C300.

IS350 competes with every one in the class. (Actually apart from Audi all got 300BHP+ top of the line 6 cylinders. Even Acura recently made one with 3.7 V6)

GS350 again rivals 535i and E350

LS460 rivals S550 ad 750i

LX570 (this torque rich 5.7 V8 engine is exclusively made for SUVs UNLIKE rivals like GL550, X5 4.8, Q7 4.2 V8 which shares the same engine as their sedan family member (S550, 750i, A8 V8). So u can see which SUV engine is more serious and superior. So i think only RR Sport is the real rival of LX570.)

ISF compete very well with M3, RS4 and C63


Actually Lexus got more V8s and V6s than most rivals. 4.6 V8, 5.0 V8 and 5.7 V8.

2.5 V6, 3.0 V6 and 3.5 V6.

and then Hybrid range of engines too


so what makes your ignorant mind think that new V10 GS will not be competitive. If Germans will move to 600BHP (if at all that would be possible considering all the gas saving low emission restrictions and regulations which are around the corner) expect Lexus to have at least same numbers.


JUGNU

Rupert - 2/8/2008 6:32:34 PM

+3 Boost

Jungu - Mercedes has the 450, 550, 63 Amg engines...plus the 420 cdi. And the 55 amg and 500 engines (G wagen).
It also has the 230, 280/300 (same engine) and 350 V6 petrols, in 3 different states of tune (350 270~ hp, 350 CGI (in CLS) 300hp~ and 350 in SLK/SL 300hp~), and the 280 and 320 cdi's

BMW has the 320i, 323i, 325i/325i with more hp, 328i, 330i, 335i I6 petrols
Plus the 4.0 in the 740, the 4.0 TT from X6, and the 4.8 in the 750.
Plus the 325d, 330d, 335d I6 diesels, and the 745d V8.
Don't know where you get this idea that Lexus has more engines...

ISF_insider - 2/9/2008 3:28:38 AM

0 Boost

It's clear you haven't driven the IS-F yet.
That car is really different from the M3.

S4cabriofoxone - 2/9/2008 11:36:21 AM

+3 Boost

"but by then the Germans will have moved on to 600hp"

"Lot of exaggeration there, Isn’t it."

No, none at all. The RS6 has at least 580hp, with most sources saying that it has upwards of 600. The new M5 will either sport a twin-turbo engine (RS6) or a larger, naturally aspirated one, both good for RS6-like power. The only one I'm not sure about is the next E63 AMG.

"Start from IS250 which can rival MB C200K and BMW 320i/323i."

Unfortunately for Lexus, the IS250 is much more expensive than the C200K and 320i. Its competition in the US is the C300 and 328i, which are both significantly quicker and similarly priced. The only car with similar power, the A4 2.0T, leaves it in the dust: A4 2.0T quattro's quickest time is 0-60 in 6.5 sec, while an IS250 AWD that was in the same article couldn't break 7. I'm not sure what its time was, but it was well over 7 sec.

"LX570 (this torque rich 5.7 V8 engine is exclusively made for SUVs UNLIKE rivals like GL550, X5 4.8, Q7 4.2 V8 which shares the same engine as their sedan family member (S550, 750i, A8 V8). So u can see which SUV engine is more serious and superior."

The LX is now an ugly, overweight, overpriced and overwrought Range Rover wannabe. Why wouldn't you buy an LC instead for $15K less? Those other SUVs (GL, X5, Q7) aren't made for off-roading, thus they don't need huge engines. The V8 in my X5 is fantastic, thank you.

"Actually Lexus got more V8s and V6s than most rivals. 4.6 V8, 5.0 V8 and 5.7 V8."

AND 4.3L V8 (SC). But why the hell do they need that many? IMO, they should only have two V8s, one for the SUVs (5.7) and one for the sedans/convertibles (4.6). Why do they need five liters to make the same horsepower (or slightly less in Europe) as/than the 4.0L BMW and 4.2L Audi?

What was the point of your post, JUGNU? You basically told me everything I already knew. However, according to THIS article, the GS will have 500hp. The RS6 has ~600hp, and the M5 will soon have 600hp also. How can you sit here and say the GS-F will be competitive with that power deficit?

mitchatlexusofmarin - 2/8/2008 2:51:44 PM

+6 Boost

I just received our first IS-F today. It sounds amazing.

jon21 - 2/8/2008 9:43:59 PM

0 Boost

It means xdrive = ignoramus

M53R - 2/9/2008 12:17:40 PM

+1 Boost

Mitch, what colour is it? Can you post pictures?

mitchatlexusofmarin - 2/10/2008 10:42:18 AM

+1 Boost

It Was black/black and long gone now- sorry. However, I am off the Vegas for 3 days of driving it on the Las Vegas Motor Speedway. Ill take lots of pics.

Hwany - 2/8/2008 3:38:30 PM

+1 Boost

I think they should make it at least around 530 - 540 range since M5 is getting TT according to rumors and RS6 already pulled 580hp...

Htay7500 - 2/10/2008 9:10:58 PM

+1 Boost

if thats true, then why don't you provide a source/link?

Lexus - 2/8/2008 8:14:39 PM

0 Boost

The Lexus LF-A has been quote at 500-580+ hp , so get your fact straight.

ISF_insider - 2/9/2008 12:16:56 PM

-1 Boost

You're right.
450-500 was meant to be 450-550.
Don't know where 580 comes from though.

jon21 - 2/8/2008 9:47:38 PM

0 Boost

I would love to see the IS-F turbocharged by Turbonetics.

JUGNU - 2/9/2008 5:45:44 AM

-4 Boost

rupert

"in 3 different states of tune "

Don't talk about different tuning. but altogether a new engine.

That means Audi got four V10s. 5.2 V10 with 435BHP in S6, 450 in S8, 500BHP in Gallardo, 580BHP in RS6.
Actually it's only one engine detuned or uptuned according to the model.

Thers is a difference between a totally new/different engine and a tuned versions of one engine.

JUGNU

Heyhuub - 2/9/2008 10:41:53 AM

+2 Boost

Only the base is the same, the only similar engines are the ones in the S8 and S6.
The Gallardo and RS6 engines are entirely different.

Rupert - 2/9/2008 12:05:15 PM

+4 Boost

And how is a 5.2 twin turbo V10 exactly the same as a 5.2 in the S6? Surely then the same is true for the 4.6 and 5.0 in the LS, same engine but slightly bigger???

Heyhuub - 2/10/2008 7:50:18 AM

+1 Boost

The RS6 engine is 5.0

JUGNU - 2/9/2008 1:11:54 PM

-2 Boost

"The LX is now an ugly, overweight, overpriced and overwrought Range Rover wannabe"

instead of offering any thoughtful and factual comments u came with this....Typical s4cabriofoxone

JUGNU

S4cabriofoxone - 2/10/2008 10:01:31 PM

0 Boost

And instead of reading my entire comment, you went straight to the part where I ranted... typical JUGNU.

Chaos29 - 2/10/2008 2:26:45 PM

+1 Boost

Would love to see the GS-F !

StickShiftCamry - 2/10/2008 9:37:59 PM

+1 Boost

The Only two 4-Door Sedans the world needs:

Automatic: Lex GS-F

Manual: BMW M5

validus00 - 2/11/2008 8:47:07 PM

+1 Boost

actually an sc-f isn't too ridiculous to consider since lexus/toyota team tom's uses the sc430 in their super gt gt500 racing program. unfortunately the sc430 is very old and needs some refreshing. but a sc-f and toyota tom's efforts in gt500 would make it a worthy combination until toyota switches to lf-a in super gt.

MartyMoose - 2/12/2008 5:56:36 PM

+1 Boost

There are more "F" spec cars coming,GS most likely, but performance accessories for the IS 250/350 are coming first. Doubt if they would do SUV "F" series though.

Also the LF-A is coming before 2010, @ $200k. Which will be a bargain based on what $62k buys you in an IS-F as an overall performer.

As hard for all the haters to believe , The IS-F styling cues are all functional. The "F" is not just an IS350 with a shoehorned 5.0 V-8 in the engine bay. The car was reengineered top to bottom and inside and out.
Chief Engineer Yukihiko Yaguchi built what he wanted , PERIOD! He did not bench mark this car against anything. He is just an enthusist like us all who wanted something extremely fun to drive and believe me it is! I just spent 3 days Driving it in Vegas.
The car is now arriving at dealerships. Go see one in person , Ask to speak with the " IS-F Champion " to show you the vehicle. He/She has been specially trained by Lexus to present the car and all performance features . The training was a 3 day extensive training class at the Las Vegas Speedway complex with many hours in the classroom and more importantly many hours behind the wheel on the road course with professional driving instructors. This car exceeded my expections for a factory hot rod! It is that "F"-in good!
If you have never driven this car or been a passenger in it, stop embarrising yourself by bashing the car. If you have had the chance to drive/ride in it and are still not impressed , I would be very surprised but I would respect your opinion anyway.

One last thing, Lexus did not build this car for the narrow minded people who have been loyal to M3, RS4, C63 etc. Its for people who are looking in that segment but not a fanboy to a brand yet. But if all you Lexus haters gave this car a chance , I can put Vegas odds that you would be a believer and a fanboy, at least of the "F"spec models . . .
Don't forget the 3 years in a row that Lexus has won the Rolex 24 hour Daytona race... sounds like Lexus may have some performance cred.

validus00 - 2/12/2008 8:49:14 PM

+1 Boost

all function except for the stacked quad fake exhausts

ISF_insider - 2/13/2008 8:03:19 AM

0 Boost

Stacked quad fake exhausts...
Read this:

http://www.isf-blog.com/2008/02/public-relation.html