2008 CHICAGO AUTO SHOW: Is The Cadillac CTS-V Man Enough To Take On The BMW M5?

Of course it's going to smash the M5 to pieces...and before I get flamed...I'll just say, let's wait and see, but I know where my allegience lies :)

?

Growing up drooling over 911's, M3's etc, I never thought I would see the day a Cadillac would turn my head like the CTS-V does. The carbon black M5 at the show looked good as usual but not enough to spend a premium over the CTS if even the performance is slightly down on the M5, which I doubt it will be

and it looks twice as better than the M5.

Eh, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Weight, however, isn't and this thing weighs a good 200+ more lbs than the M5, which isn't a particularly light car to begin with. That does wonders for handling

I know, the truth hurts

Such a hot looking car, that bulged hood just screams power. It will be awesome to read the articles when they compare this beast to the M5

It'll be a lot less expensive than an M5 at least. Load one of those up and you're knocking on the door of $100k. My guess is this tops out at $70k, which is what a fully loaded M3 runs.

Agent 009, i prefer my vehicle to be a machine, not a human. No car should be "man enough" for anything.

Until you define "what it takes to put the M5 in its place", all you are going to do is whip up a frenzy among fanboys who can't objectively compare anything. Or is this the sole purpose of this site?

Ask an honest, clear question and you might get some answers.

As far as I'm concerned, there's room in the marketplace for both vehicles. I'd take the RS6 Avant - primarily because AWD and a superior interior matter to me. Your response may differ depending on your needs.

moto, if all articles were objectively written then people would start loosing interest in reading.

It's the author's job to make it as interesting as they possibly can to attract attention from as many readers as possible.

Nicely stated Moto. Although, I would take the RS6 Avant in a heartbeat for its superior execution, I think CTS-V does look good, especially the aggressive front and the interior is light years improved over any previous Cadillac. I think Cadillac has the right formula initially - that is to sort of mimick the German premium car company formula to make themselves more competitive here at home and possibly globally (cracking the European market however is a tall order, but I think they can do well in Russia that is hungry for premium and luxury objects). Overall, thumbs up and it must be a beast as well. However, I will wait for some reviews to decide. But I like the direction. Nice job Cadillac!

Wait and see. It will out run and M5 under about any circumstances, have a better ride, and in my opinion has a nicer interior.

just as clarkson would put it while reviewing the vauxhall vxr8, "the M5 comes with a BMW badge so Its worth its weight..." b-but its a BMW. They are suppose to be better!

Why is everything BMW legendary? Honestly, so much over hype. Yes, M5 is a terrific vehicle, but it is not legendary.

I am pretty sure it will take an M5 for the most part. The ride is going to be a lot easier on the back though with the V. I am kind of curious to see how well the MRC shock help the V basically handle right up there with the M5 without the ride penalty?? The M5 has some fancy computer adjustable shocks, but nothing holds a candle to MRC.

It's an awesome car. I like it more than the M5. The M5 is not one of my favorite cars. I am mostly a fan of the BMW X5, X6, and the 5 Series.

No self respecting BMW fan likes an X5 over an M5

They've both got big power. But something tells me that slighty detuned Corvette ZR-1 engine the CTS is packing might give it an edge. But until there's an official comparision this all just speculation and guesses.

The BMW will rely on higher revs, a marginally lighter weight and what is currently the best balanced chassis in the mid-size class to give it an edge in the twisty stuff, but on the straights, it should be no contest: the CTS-V has a 40 hp advantage and its torque edge is over 200 Nm.

amazinBimmer is an Audi fan. He has even praised such Audi models as the marvelous R8, the wonderful future A1 among a few others.

shut up no one likes you

let's not get sidetracked here kids. but in all honestly, an rs6 vs. cts-v on-paper is probably a better comparison. they both would weight roughly the same, except cts in standard rear wheel drive trim is slightly lighter than a6 in awd trim.

rs6 and cts-v are both force-induced. rs6 has 30 more hp whereas cts-v has 70 more lb-ft.

cts-v however, has 15 inch rotors, the likes of which are found in big brake kits, and has brembo calipers.

i'd be more intrigued to find a track comparison between the two when magazines review them side by side.

Is's Audi's 580 # SAE approved? The 550 for CTS-V is prelim and not SAE. It could very well be conservative. The number might end up a lot closer than 30hp for power once an RS6 is here with SAE numbers and the CTS-V has final SAE #'s. I think you are right though that these are a better comparison, kinda. I think the CTS-V with it's MRC shocks though is going to be closer to the M5 on the handling front. So really it seems it will be a REALLY close race in the end. Taking all important factors into account I think the CTS-V could have an edge though. I base this mostly again on the MRC. They are magic you know!

It could also be true that the RS6's power is underrated. Think BMW 335i--some think that it has closer to 350hp than 300 flat. Similarly, people are saying that the RS6 will have over 600hp at the dyno.

Either way, both sedans are hugely impressive.

The Mighty M5 is a FERRARI/911 Turbo beater and you're talking about some 3rd class citizen like Cadillac??? Oh GOd. Whoever posts this SHIt should just stop egging-on the public.

shut up you rejected little fanboys

the V logo looks like the one on the Holden SSV and Calais V but that is probably because Holden is owned by GM but anyway we will have to see the tests in car mags before any of the fanboys shut up

Cadillac has come a long way! This really looks like a great car. However I suspect in the end the M5 will be the better car overall. BMW has years of experience getting all the little things right. How the car handles on the edge, how the steering reacts to your input when really pushing it, how it handles bumps mid corner and so on. Time is a great teacher, that is why the M3 has been the better car overall when pitched against the IS-F. But everyone else is now getting experience under their belts too so the competition really is catching up. So I cannot say for sure which in the end will be the better hot rod sedan... but man I am sure willing to volunteer to be a tester and find out!

this will be one big muscle car

i love it

america doing what they do best: muscle car v8

On looks alone... this car ranks up there with the M5 and the performance makes it even more of a competition.

I want both!

Really!

I LOVE the way the CTS-V looks, inside and out, and I love the idea of a high-revving V10 (M5).

Yet another nonsensical post, made by our resident rabid/rude BMW Fan-Boy on the one auto-blog that seems to perpetuate such nonsense. Compare his comments to those more knowledgeable/articulate about matters automotive? (NOT A CHANCE!) His 'biased insights' my have merit in that Endless Abyss of Nothingness He Calls a Brain, but Nowhere Else... !!!

Why have you driven an RS6? I doubt you could afford the rim yet alone the car.

Now you are calling all Americans as lazy and fat? Obviously, congentiality is not your strong suite.

I love how everyone makes mindless statements about how "godly" and "almighty" the M5 is.

to BMW fanboys:

think before you write stuff on these posts because if we don't like it you will be ridiculed and your comments deboosted, so if you have nothing smart to say, don't say anything

reminds me of a favorite quote by former president Lincoln; one that seems to apply to someone in almost every article. Forgive me if this isn't verbatim:

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

The CTS looks great, but nothing will give you the feeling a bmw does when you get into it and turn on the engine, and that feeling alone is worth paying a bit more for.

Speak for youself, and stop playing spokesman for everyone else.

BMW does what they do, sometimes well/sometimes not so well, but they are not the be all and end all of high perfomance cars.

The CTS-V, RS6 and upcoming XFR are all giving the M5 a run for its money like never before...

? name one ferrari that a stock BMW has beaten

"? name one ferrari that a stock BMW has beaten"

The M3 CSL beat an F430 around Nurburgring with a time of 7:50 compared to 7:55

Oh, come ON. The CSL was built for the track. It should be compared to the Ferrari track equivalent--the Scuderia, of course.

No. The F430 is a supercar, but it's also one you can drive every day in mild climates. It's comfortable and polished without losing the raw Ferrari edge.

The Scuderia IS the "raw Ferrari edge" on wheels. It was built purely for the track, while the track is just "another thing" that the standard F430 can do.

Is ridiculous to even try to compare a Cadillac with the almighty BMW M5. Is more likely for Hyundai to beat Lexus before Cadillac has a chance to compete against BMW.

CTS V = NY giants M5= New England Patriots

the underdog might win. but m5 is expected to be better.
either way, no shame in losing to the benchmark.
gotta admit, the interior is way better than M5.

And close to that of the RS6!

That's huge praise, because the new RS6's interior is STUNNING:

http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/0/9/z/rs6avant_interior.jpg

RS6 is definately nice inside. I prefer touch screens though. Also, why is Audi about the only company still clinging to the driver oriented cockpit designs?? Particularly in sedans it seems odd. I could see the driver oriented stuff in more true sports cars, but just seems confused in a sedan. I prefer the new trend of more symetric dashes with a center console that reached quite a ways aft to make things easy to reach for both driver and passenger.

They're not "clinging."

They had the symmetric consoles before so many other luxury companies, while BMW had the driver-oriented theme.

See here...

1998 Audi A6:

http://www.curiouscars.com/photos_inventory/1998_audi_a6_quattro/DSC00807.JPG

1998 BMW 5 Series:

http://www.marinautoconsignments.com/4233_bmw98_540i/slideshow/slides/5.JPG

However, Audi changed that when they introduced the 2005 A6, and BMW changed that when they introduced the 2002 7 Series. They've switched places. IMO driver-centric stacks are cool, and here to stay; they don't limit the passenger's ability to reach, which you'll see if you sit in any of Audi's current models aside from the A3 (it still has a symmetric dash).

Considering power/weight and gearing, the CTS-V should be able to take the 6spd M5; just barely. However, the SMG? I'm almost certain it won't outrun the SMG M5. I could be wrong though.

I think you are probably underestimating the capabilities of the new automatic 6L90 or whatever it's called in this CTS-V. It has the capability to switch gears nearly as fast as SMG or DSG for that matter. BMW still uses a lot of these SAME GM transmissions in their automatic cars. Not sure they have ever put any automatic in thier M cars though?? Also I think a move to a dual clutch gearbox in the M5 would make it a better car than it is as the SMG is a pretty crude way of doing things. BMW plans to do just this also.

its not all about the engine. americans have never had problems building cars with horsepower but how to get those cars around corners which is what the germans do best

Man enough? No.

I love that this Caddy is only going to make the next generation 5 that much harder to topple. Bring it.

I hate to say it, because the new CTS is absolutely the most beautiful car in it's class, but for the CTS V, the mesh grille seems to take away all those magnificence and takes Cadillac back to looking like it's last carnation of the CTS, yes with this grille on the V, the CTS V looks a lot like their last CTS. So clearly i don't like the looks of the CTS V, but this is a performance machine, and in terms of performance this car has plenty to offer.

CTS-V man enough? Numbers would suggest it.
CTS-V beautiful enough? Sheet metal will enforce it.

CTS-V is it good enough? If not, we'll divorce it.

Lucky first us americans who love cars Cadillac has been moving in the right direction the last couple of years. Im not sure what the price for the new cts-v is supposed to be but if cost is not an option I would say the M5 will still be on top. I would love to see the cts do well but the americans are still a few years behind when it comes to building cars that handle like the german rivals.