Is BMW The New Porsche?

NOT BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION!

Great Cars, But Porsche - NOT!

krautmaster, if you want to knock BMW for "making the same car for 30 years in different sizes", then how can you not knock Porsche for "making the same car for 30 years" period? The 911 has looked pretty much exactly the same for how long now? And the snout on the Cayman, Panamera, and Cayenne look familiar, where have I seen them before? Oh yeah, on the 911. That wouldn't be different sized versions of the same car, would it? Nah, Porsche would never do anything like that.

Porsche lost it when they made that ugly excuse for an SUV. They once had a great advertisement saying " Porsche doesn't have sports cars in their lineup like other companies. But a line up of sports cars". Looks like that has been shot down. And if they come out with the Panamera 4 door monstrosity It will truly be a sad sad day.

kraut is a camry-driving boy who knows nothing about cars. ignore him.

Dear Donald-O, Hi-me from Team Audi here (Rally Connesiour), When BMW came out with their SUV, it helped out their brand image. With all less than impressive attributes compared to the Cayenne.

If a brands image goes down after introducing a new model lineup, as opposed to one that goes up after introducing a new model lineup, It's clear to say that the heirarchy stands.

The thing is some of these brands are just making themselves look stupid and not less than impressive, haha the Ferrari SUV speaks louder than porsche on this whole De-imaging the brands image.

over and out -

Hime

I am so sick and tired of bloggers complaining about BMW's IDrive.. I have it on my 335i coupe and it is fantastic. You have to give BMW credit for pioneering the next step in automotive interaction. All the other LUX brands have copied BMW some better some not. BMW's latest version is very intuitive and much easier than previous versions. It only takes a few hours to master and once you have, you never want to go back. If imitation is the best compliment then BMW is the true pioneer of the automotive industry. Not only have other LUX brands copied the IDrive but the so called and much hated "Banglization" of their cars.

BMW is always ahead of the game, no matter what field the game is played!

Porsche has lost some of its "pizazz" so to say. Mainly in the name of getting more sales. BMW is getting more and more popular with the modern 15-27 year old generation, due to the fact that they advertise more, celebrities "DUB" them out, and also Porsche image has become a place where 40 year old men go to for a mid-life crisis. Porsche just hasn't had a historical event take place for this generation.

So does Porsche need an answer to the 135 (Cayman performance/1-series price) more than anyone else?

001

Yes and No, yes because they need sales and a performance image. No because it would dillute their image even more unless they dropped the Cayenne base model and the S while keeping the Turbo, and the GTS. And if they put the Cayman and Boxter under one model family and adding a 1-Series competitor.

I am still a major Porsche fan though, no matter what any other brand throws at them.

"BMW is getting more and more popular with the modern 15-27 year old generation"

I really do not see where you're getting this info from. It wasn'T that long ago that i was in my late 20's and everyone i knew could afford a BMW but what they were really gunning for was a Porsche.

that picture says it all....

no

What's wrong with the picture?

Are the girls too fun and pretty?

001

No, what hes saying is that BMW is for the badge, whereas porsche is for the driving enthusiast. BMW = poseur, Porsche = the real deal.

"BMW = poseur, Porsche = the real deal"

I couldn't have said it better myself. Never compare BMW to Porsche.

We've already said the GT2 is amazing, but those aren't bread and butter high selling cars.

We're saying they're missing the boat with cars that could sell at high volumes like BMW's 3 or 1 series...

001

"We're saying they're missing the boat with cars that could sell at high volumes like BMW's 3 or 1 series..."

At What Cost? Diluting The Near Exotic Porsche Image?

Porsche IS One Of The Most Profitable Auto Makers Existent... They Need Not Worry About Competing With 'Lesser' Luxury Makes.

Ask Yourself This: Does Rolex Sit Around Worrying About Seiko's Next Timepiece Move - The Answer Is NO!

And It Matters Not One Iota That Seiko Makes Outstanding, Though Rather Ordinary, Timepieces.

except a Seiko would be an "appliance" watch compared to a Rolex, which is a passion purchase (doesn't tell time as well, still coveted by everyone). If Porsche is Rolex then Seiko is Lexus, not BMW. BMW or Mercedes could also very easily be Rolex in your analogy.

Hey daharder, no offense but why do you capitalize every word in the sentence?

I don't think Porsche was ever about selling the volume of BMW etc.

There are no cars that involve the driver more than porsche Even the boxster and the cayman are very good driving cars. I understood them making these cars as they are in the tradition of Porsche. There is no car out there like the 911. It is pure bliss to drive. These cars still are far more prestigious than anything BWM is putting out

The SUV and coming coupe? I don't know. I don't think they dilute the brand name, but they seem to be out of the traditional porsche. Porsche seems to do this every so often. 911 going along great.... lets make everything a front mount water cooled engine. (924, 944, 968, 928). All these cars failed. Now they have some good selling cars besides the 911 (boxster being the best) and they are going nuts with other stuff. I think the coupe will fail and eventually the SUV will too. But, like the 80s didn't kill the name, neither will this period.

"We're saying they're missing the boat with cars that could sell at high volumes like BMW's 3 or 1 series"

WOW, you really know nothing about what Porsche stands for. Porsche does not want to be the high seller that the 3series or 1series are.
They don't want that nor should they try for that.
OMG your ignorant.

the 997 is one of the best porsches ever. their bread and butter. And its still the best track car that is a daily driver, turns heads, etc.

Would you spend $15k more than a 135i to own a Cayman?

001

GoObama-"BMW has had a bad decade" ????WTF

You are as delusional as your faith in your candidate. Keep drinking that Koolaide bud.

BMW's success over the last decade is the envy of everyone in the Luxury auto market. Get over your bias face reality and grow up you pathetic sycophant.

Yes, I would buy the S over the 135

Wow, for the first time I actually think someone there is on drugs. BMW the ultra-ubiquitous brand for shameless followers who have no idea how to make an individual decision becoming more than Porsche? Come on. Take a drive in SoCal or any other major city center in NA and look around, to drive a BMW is meaningless like having an iPod or drinking Starbucks. These are not the marquees that people aspire to, they are brands that people own and use on a daily basis. Yes Porsche pizazz has really lost its way like in the Carerra GT, that vehicle was terrible and truly without inspiration or imagination. The 911 continues to defy conventional engineering with it's layout and drive characteristics; yes, I mean the vehicle that is used as a benchmark for most sub 100K vehicles. Porsche is making some different choices these days, but make no mistake their bread and butter remains authentic. BMW has tried to change it up a few times over memory with different results, and let's wait and see what the 1-Series does to the brand, where the price walk to a 3-series will probably cannibalize more 3-series than conquest Cayman OR Boxster intenders. So let's get real, BMW is still the car for everyman - bring a dealer 299 a month and you too can drive one, Porsche still remains a truly aspirational brand offering no vehicle sub $40k which they insist they never will. Given their track record, who would doubt them. 318ti anyone!?

exactly, i could not say it any better.

i admit i dislike Porsche. from an engineering point of view, with 60k, there are cars that are more fun to drive, more gadget to play with, more reliable if you can just see through the brand image. this may, indeed, include 001's beloved 135i.

but then we are not talking about engineering point of view, we are talking about brand prestige. sadly, bmw is no match for Porsche. here at socal, the leasing deal for BMW has always been GREAT. in fact, with 359 dollar/month, you can drive back a 328 with no problem (could have been better deals now), and when you see almost every college chick drive a bmw, you know there is no way in HELL can BMW be the new Porsche.

obama bin laden=
You have no idea. GO Hilary

Actually the M1 was built by BMW, Lamborghini's financial position at the time meant that they couldn't built it so BMW's M-division resumed control of the project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M1

Once again you've let your delusional bias get in the way of the facts GoObama

Real smart comment from xj13 regarding Obama. Only an idiot would associate the first presidential candidate in decades to offer some hope to the US away from its current imperialistic aspirations with your number one enemy....

Anyway, back to cars! No-one can beat Porsche when it comes to pure driving feel. BMW slightly stumbled here with the M3 with complaints of numb steering feel etc. But most of the driving press is agreed that the Porsche 911, Cayman and Boxster are the benchmarks when it comes drivers' cars. Porsche is mainly a sports car manufacturer whereas BMW isn't although the latter makes some very good cars.

Is GoObama08 the same as JoshLexus4Ever? I think they are the same guy. They both speak the same gibberish about Lexus being the best invention since sliced bread...

I sell Lexus' I must say that if we don't start attracting younger buyers in 20 years we will be Buick. I have to enter the Drivers License expiration date in the computer for our buyers every time I sell one. In this state your drivers license is good until you are 65, and 9 out of 10 times it will be expired inside of 2 years. Truly a frightening thought, I also sold Buick product for a number of years and the running joke was once you sell it do the paperwork quick, your customer wants to take delivery before their funeral. This will be Lexus in 20.

As far as the Porsche mystique is concerned I once saw a Porsche ad that sums it all up for me. It read something like this;

"First you saw it and you feel in love, the next year you decided you were going to buy one, and the next year you started kindergarten."

The best and most humorously true advetisement I have ever seen.

On another note to the flipside of obamas lexus is amazing rant-

When Porsche needed to streamline their production process mnay years ago to become profitable, who did they hire to consult?

Toyota.

I stand by my earlier comments, but that is rather interesting.

i think the m3 is a great alternative to a porsche cayman S, but i still feel porsche is more exclusive.

porsche 911 turbo is the real deal.

the only thing i HATE about porsche is even if they had a 1 series competitor, it wouldnt compete because of the price after options.

i love the cayman S, but fully loaded its like 70k, you can get an M3 for less and probably obliterate the cayman AND have better reliabilty.

obama bin laden, you are on crack !!!!!

Okay, that's just absolutely ridiculous. There should be no political discussion here, but to call someone out because of their African middle name is childish at best. SHUT IT!

Porsche is he world's most profitable automaker. They do this by selling a fair number of high-margin vehicles.

The last thing they need is to move a car into the classless, vapid, urbanite, 16-year-old girl riddled 1-series market.

That's a strategy of the past in my opinion...they need to wake up and have GREAT products in ALL segments.

001

They still don't even have satellite radio and bluetooth in the 911!

001

Who Wants To Listen To The Highly Compressed 'Screeching' of Satellite Radio Anyway?

It's Like Listening To Mp3s Encoded at 64kbs - SONICALLY HORRIBLE!

Porsche Need Only Focus On Engineering/Performance, and Leave Gimmicks To Lesser Makers.

"They still don't even have satellite radio and bluetooth in the 911!"

Who cares?

Is this just you, trying to justify having a 335i sedan that you traded a C2S in for?

"no sat and bluetooth"

The reason is they are waiting for the antenna to be able to built in to the windshield (next year) so they don't have to kill the lines on the car with a lame antenna.

001-I don't see BMW as the new Porsche just yet. But saying that I think Porsche needs to wake up and rethink a little bit. Because of their policy of protecting the performance of the 911 at all costs they are ceeding some performance with their Boxster/Cayman lines. Clearly those cars could handle quite a bit more power. The sales of those cars are weakening because of cars like the Nissan 350Z,the Z4 and M cars.Now Audi is coming out with the TTS and BMW has just come out with the 135I.Porsche needs to turn up the power. With direct injection let me suggest the power ratings for the sportscar line up-
GT3-440HP with DI/Carrera S 400HP with DI/Base Carrera
350HP with DI/CaymanS and Boxster S 320HP with DI/Base Boxster and Cayman 270HP with DI. My assumtion is that with the DI fuel economy will be improved as well.I also think Porsche should hold the line on increasing prices. A base Cayman should not go above 50 grand and perhaps Porsche needs to charge a little less for options.(especially on Boxster/Cayman).The Cayenne needs the restyle ASAP. It is not an attractive car. The interior styling is not opulent enough. More luxurious materials would be the order of business. The new Panamera has styling that I would say is not ugly but it is a bit conservative compared to the Mercedes CLS,Aston Martin Rapid. BMW has had lousy styling but that's about to change. Porsche had better rethink it;s performance and styling or their future could take a downward turn.

In case you've forgotten, I'm one of Porsche's best customers...

http://www.autospies.com/news/REVIEW-001-makes-his-choice-for-the-best-all-around-sportscar-on-the-market-today-5967/

http://www.autospies.com/news/What-s-in-your-garage-Update-16300/

But I'm also a big BMW customer...

I just think BMW is outsmarting them in segments that will eventually hurt Porsche sales and customer image.

001

In fact, Volkswagen is Toyota of Germany. If anything, BMW can be compared to the Honda of the F1 glory years.

Like That Wasn't His Sole Motivation?

yawn...

lol

Not many people "get it" anymore. Non-car types think that their SUV's can out-perform sports sedans on the street; sport sedan types now think that 0-60 makes chassis balance and any other classic sports car element irrelevant.

I'm am SO grateful that a handful of companies like Porsche are still building great machines the old way, with a balance of power and control, classic styling, and with just 2 seats as God intended.

I still hate the Cayenne, even as a dealer loaner, but I see no indications that they are dumbing down the 911 or Boxster/Cayman platforms because of it.

"BMW "exclusivity" is now more affordable than ever with the 1-series"

The exclusive 135i costs 45 grand.

"plus there performance isn't anything to brag about."

Show me cars that perform better, handle as well, that cost the same. Prove it.

Before you get yourself in trouble here are the 135i test results from C&D, available on their website right now. Pretty awesome writeup as well. Not too bad for a $35k "entry level" BMW.

C/D TEST RESULTS:

Zero to 60 mph: 4.7 sec

Zero to 100 mph: 11.5 sec

Zero to 140 mph: 25.6 sec

Street start, 5–60 mph: 5.5 sec

Standing ¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 106 mph

Top speed (governor limited): 143 mph

Braking, 70–0 mph: 157 ft

Roadholding, 328-ft-dia skidpad: 0.89 g

EPA city/highway driving: 17/25 mpg

And I don't care that it's $45k with options. My 2002 330Ci was $45k with options (as was my 2006 330i), and it was half the car the 135i is. Hell, that 2002 330Ci was $6k more than a 128i would be now, and the 128i is also more car.

JRob, what I meant was the 135i isnt THAT affordable. Yes, the base is $35,000 but add the options and youre pushing $45,000, not cheap by any means. It is however cheap for the amount of performance youre getting. I also had two previous 330's, one a Ci, the other a ZHP and both of them cost that much, but both pale in comparison to the new turbo 1-series. Some of my friends think Im crazy for buying a 335i with every option, but to me, they could of charged more and it would still be worth it. These cars out perform others costing much more. That was my point.

Chip, I agree with you, I was responding to Huu. Who in typical Huu fashion has no idea what he's talking about.

watch me get deboosted and probably rejected from that site

AGENT 001, WHAT EVER YOU ARE SMOKING I WANT SOME.

"Sure they have some great rides like the GT2 but I'm referring to the everyday cars in the volume segments like the Boxster/Cayman/Cayenne/911's."

"Everyday?" Hardly. Anyway...

Boxster- awesome roadster that puts the Z4 to shame any day of the week. Not a bad price, to boot.

Cayman- ditto, but it puts the Z4 Coupé to shame, and with even better performance and style than its Boxster sibling.

911- duh. Do I even have to say anything?

Cayenne- the one weak(ish) link. Depending on how you approach it, it's either an overweight joke of a Porsche, or a competent sports/luxury SUV.

So, 001, exactly what were you referring to, especially considering the fact that Porsche has no interest in the 1/3 Series class and won't be building a "cheap" car any time soon?

Agree on the Boxster putting the Z4 to shame. In fact, I have a friend who traded me his Z4 for my 986S on about 10 miles of canyon roads a couple years ago. Several weeks later he emailed me pictures of his new car...he'd been so blown away by the handling differences of the Boxster that he traded in his Z4 for one.

I was actually quite shocked at how poorly the Z4 handled and felt during that ride. It lurched very awkwardly over washboard and off-camber corners and was generally uncomfortable. I think a LOT was the problem was due to the runflat tires, but I understand they have since tweaked the suspension (it was an early Z4 I drove), but I still hated the feeling of sitting on top of the rear axle.

Now when I see a Z4, I just have a chuckle that obviously someone didn't do their homework and cross-shop with the Boxster. I'm afraid for a lot of people they simply have to have the very latest styling trend, and it isn't about the driving at all.

could be they didn't do their homework, or maybe they didn't think the slight handling increase was worth an extra $20k. Not everyone buying a Boxster or Cayman takes their cars to the track. Besides, you could get an M Coupe for the price of a base Cayman, and the base Cayman isn't beating the M Coupe anywhere. That sounds like doing their homework to me.

Extra $20K?

If you don't let Porsche tempt you with unnecessary options and go for a purist's Boxster, it won't run you over $50K, and if you're lucky it will be $46K. You can easily get a Z4 over $40K.

S4, notice I was comparing the Cayman and M Coupe, not the Boxster and Z4. Porsche is backwards from everyone else and charges more for the non-convertible Cayman than they do the Boxster. BMW, like everyone else, charges less for the M Coupe than they do the M Roadster. So because of that you can, very literally, get an M Coupe for the price of the base Cayman. As great as the Cayman is for the same price I'd take a 330hp M Coupe over a 245hp base Cayman any day.

I am actually not sure. The Cayman's perfect dynamics are just too tempting. The M Coupé's engine is great, but from what I've read it isn't all we expected it to be. Overall, though, I would stretch for the extra $10K and go for a Cayman S (-:

Porsche don't miss the boat, they own the boat!!!

2 years ago I posted an article here:
http://www.autospies.com/news/Has-Porsche-lost-its-magic-touch-8488/

To me Porsche was finished long ago and now all the execs are leaving one by one, very sad indeed.

One-by-one? Is that so?

So the marketer has left, and they've all left?

Porsche will continue to laugh its way to the bank well into the next decade... and beyond.

Lets be realistic. The Boxster came out over 10 years ago. Whilst it is not as fast as some, it still handles and drives beautifully. The same can also be said of the 911. And whilst the look of a 911 is a little restrained when you line it up next to the new Nissan, on the road it looks just right. Yes familiar but then so does your partner after 25 years and there are many happily married people who still like their partners appearance, despite familiarity.

But lets be honest. The Cayenne is a foul pig. And absolute abomination. A dire piece of design. And the antithesis of everything that Porsche was before it appeared. Whoever gave this the green light should be kicked in to touch. Get rid of them. Hang them. Just yuk.

But here is the point. That BMW can get away with X5 and X6 says that, whilst BMW is a good drive, its brand had never been as focused as that of Porsche.

But Porsche cant survive selling on the past. They need new moedles that advance the game, And design wise a 4 door 911 isnt it. They need ground breaking, not stretched 911.

There was another famous marque that tried living in the past and then introduced a half baked volume seller to help crank up production. And that was Jaguar. For sale.

The problem at Porsche is they are starting to make mode-level brand positioning decisions to the detriment of the overall brand. Why is there not a turbo/high performance Cayman? In order to protect the 911. This results in a vacuum below $100k to be filled by M cars, GT-Rs, etc. and suddenly Porsche is no longer differentiated as in the past,

BMW makes great cars, but is it the new Porsche? I dont think so. Not even close.
Schwarzenbaur's new position at Audi is a good indication Porshce is protecting its investment in VW / Audi. The real question sould be.
IS AUDI THE NEW BMW

Agent 001, are you mad or something? What gets into you man. I mean i can see that you totally idolize BMW, almost as if like you worship the brand(look at his articles and you'll see that this dude totally digs bimmers) but how on earth can you compare a recycleable manufactured good (a BMW, or a MERC, or anything really) with the utterly magnificent porsches. Porsches are unique, and they have remained so for over a century, they have not given in to the trend of popular demand, but rather improved on their own and only philosophy, make cars that "have no substitute" because really if you have ever driven a 911, you'll know there is nothing quite like it. I mean the feeling is totally different, almost as if like the car is a living thing, the steering, the brake and the wheels work so seamlessly as if like you might think that you and the car are one (i see no other way to put it but it's almost as if like it is a living car), and simply BMW can not do it. Sales figure counts for nothing. And besides Porsches are nowadays selling in hundreds of thousands, and for a company selling only sports cars, it is a huge amount. I love Porsches, possibly the only german brand that i really like.

they made the cayenne to help some money to meet demands and help future models

I don't think BMW is the new Porsche.

BMW is driven to become the biggest volume seller, and as such creates pretty awful cars such as the 316i (116hp) here in some countries in Europe, just to sell sell sell and not care about the quality of product they put out.

BMW is definitely the new Porsche.

I think everyone already knows you love BMW. This wasn't necessary to reinforce that.

And my answer is no. It's really a different niche. And BMW is not invincible (NOBODY IS!!).

Image doesn't matter. It is the bottom line that drives the company. Porsche and every other companies will what they need to do to make money.

I don’t think the question is about sheer exclusivity? By sheer volume it's obvious a Porsche is more rare.

BMW may not have the prestige that Porsche has, but maybe to the minds of many --- it is prestigious enough.

Now if you factor in the performance/cost ratio, better value in options, better warranty, and free maintenance service, BMW at the moment is a much more attractive option.

Would you really get the Cayenne over the X5 (especially with the new TT V8), a 355-hp 911 over a 414-hp DSG-equipped M3? I know I wouldn’t.

I mean a well-optioned Boxster S costs more than a V8 M3. LOL!

If Porsche wants to remain an option in the everyday-car segment, then they would have to try to match BMW --- at the very least in a very important category --- value.

"Would you really get the Cayenne over the X5 (especially with the new TT V8)"

No, I didn't, and I wouldn't again...

"a 355-hp 911 over a 414-hp DSG-equipped M3? I know I wouldn’t."

...yes, I certainly would. The only car that I would pick over a Porsche 911, for the price, is the Audi R8. Also, of note--the 911 will be available with DSG pretty soon. I LOVE the new M3 and am considering it myself, but it just isn't a 911.

BTW, Porsche doesn't have to offer "value" for anybody. They have a devoted customer base. They've gotten where they are through hard work, and they charge what they charge, because they can.

You must be kidding. Banglemobiles will never be anything more than expensive rice...

001,

When I first read your posting, I could see that it had "flame war" written all over it. And judging from the responses you have gotten from the readers, that is exactly what you got.

I frankly don't care which marque has higher prestige. However, as Porsche has just bought a controlling interest in the Volkswagen Group, Porsche will have all the financial and technical resources it will need (if any) to take on BMW or any other supposed challenger.

I don't think BMW is the new Porsche. Tradition and small sales volumes keeps Porsche ahead.

But there is something to be said about Porsche loosing some of its prestige/mystique by selling that monstrosity called Cayenne. And I am afraid the same may be true for the Panamera. Focusing on anything but true sport cars is a mistake for Porsche.

actually, I would say you are delusional

I saw someone with a quote that read "I refuse to accept your version of reality and instead choose to substitute my own"

I haven't had a better instance to invoke that quote than now.

Cpt still lives in his narrow minded world. Oh you poor thing...

Porsche has been unique in that for a long time it focused primarily on sports cars. It has now branched off in the Cayenne and the soon to be Panamera. BMW has made its reputation on building good performing and handling sedans. Yes it has a few coupes but not nearly the same inventory as Porsche or as many variations on a sportscar as Porsche(Targa,convertable,GT3,RS,Turbo,TurboRS etc). From a performance,handling aspect there are 2 models in BMW;s inventory that nearly equal or better Porsche in terms of performance and handling.They are the M3 and the 335I. An M3 with it's V8 will equal or beat a Carrera S in a straight line. It does not have the handling sensetivity of a Carrera but will probably do as well around a track. The 335I will beat both Caymans in a straight line. Again it does not handle quite as well but it's power can make up for the handling deficit it has against the Cayman.I did not include the M coupe because it's handling capability is not as good as the 135I. So what this prooves is that BMW has made in roads into the Porsche philosophy of offering a variety of sports cars but it's not their main focus.However Porsche no longer has exclusive rights to best performance and handling in it's price class.This will only get worse for Porsche as the competition is honing in on especially the Boxster/Cayman models.The other point is that Porsche charges a lot of money for it's cars. It has allowed for them to be the most profitable car company.The question is for how long.If you remember the 944 saved Porsche from going under back in the 80's. However by the early nineties it was overpriced and no longer competative. The 911 protectionism makes it difficult after time to sell lower prices models competatively. This is where they may need to rethink.People condem them for the Cayenne and Panamera as diluting the marquee. I'd rather have Porsche to kick around with the C and P and have then remain independent. I do think they need to take some more chances on styling and up the power a bit. But as they say competition improves the breed.

I can just imagine what those girls are saying:

"OMG, its like a grey CAR!!"

Porsche is not suppose to be an everyday car. it is the second car or the fun toy in the garage. its also a status symbol. In this day in age and with the current economy any person can drive a BMW. 3 years ago the 3-series BMW entry model leased for under $300 a month. SO of course BMW sold a lot of them. You could get a 5-series for $450 a month and the x5 for the same! The 7 series was around $900 per month. thats why sales were through the roof.

All the Porsche's have horrible lease rates except the 911 turbo which is competitive. Also to compare the cayenne in lease rates 06-08 the v6 is $100 more, the S is $200 more and the turbo is $500 more per month.

If Porsche lowers the rates on the cayenne and Boxster they will start selling again.

BMW is a great company and make great cars. To say that its the next Porsche is not realistic. Maybe Hyundai us the next Lexus? Kia the next Ferrari? Acura the next Mercedes?

A Porsche is a Porsche and a BMW is a BMW. Lets keep it that way.

Nope.

Porsche has some work to do, but there is something more special about the brand compared with BMW.

Yah, the 911 GT2 would get spanked by that Z06 for sure...

Actually Porsche's can be used as everyday cars.If you're talking the Best from Porsche a GT2 will more than touch a Z06.it will smash it. Saying that the Z06 is an impressive piece from Chevy. However I still wonder about it's overall build quality long term versus Porsche. It's one thing to have great power and handling.It's quite another to see how the car holds up after 5 or 6 yrs.

cptamazingV, you must be a kid. You obviously have never had to pay for repairs on a vette.

Isn't Porsche about to buy VW? So if Peter Schwarzenbauer is moving to Audi, isn't he in a way getting a de-motion. Doesn't sound too smart to me...but that's just my 2 cents.

It is not a demotion as he will head global sales for Audi and not just NA sales for Porsche.

cptamazingv-Porsche has a good reliability record and certainly better quality then any Vette made.The Z06 is a great effort from Chevy and the upcoming ZR1 Blue Devil will be even more impressive. Long term I have serious doubts a Vette will hold up as well as a Porsche. I think Porsche has more to worry from Nissan as in G T R to be honest.

The comparison doesn't make sense. If you are comparing the BMW brand directly to the Porsche Brand, then they are very different. Porsche is a small sports-car company overall even though they have added a SUV to stay profitable. Porsche is the major shareholder of the VAG Group(and likely to increase share) and thus easily not only competes with BMW in all niches (excluding volume niches such as the VW, Seat, and Skoda brands which the BMW Group has no direct competitor to) but can through the various companies within VAG attack every niche that BMW competes in without having to build a Porsche to do it. Porsche is better situated then the BMW Group for future growth simply from its major holdings in the VAG Group whether it be economies of scale, marketing, factories, development, and any area of the automotive cycle due to the sheer size, profit, and leveraging abilities of VW-Audi-Porsche while BMW is more less handicapped due to their smaller size. So, Porsche wins in the long run as BMW struggles with the all important decreasing net profit per each unit while Porsche profit sours.

I meant soars. Damn keyboard

That picture does say it all!!

I am confused. So Audi replaces their sales and marketing guru Ralph Weyler supposedly because of weak US sales. I'm sorry, but US sales are right where they want them to be. Always selling a little more than last year but not enough to cost them too much money due to exchange rate issues.

The guy they chose from Porsche can't give a Cayman away if his life depended on it. 911's are flat as a board, and the Panamera looks to be a sales catastrophe waiting to happen. Even Cayennes are not selling that well. What gives?

BMW sells everything it builds despite being ugly (X6) or useless (X6). BMW transplants have not worked well within the Audi corporate culture in the past, so I'm not suggesting they look over there either but there certainly is something very powerful with that brand in consumer's minds. I just wonder when the ether will wear off for those guys. I mean what a concept: Treat your customer like crap, build a so so product that drives really well and throw in maintenance. Charge more for it than most of your competition but then give them away with supplemented leases. Boom! Instant sales success!

There must be something other than that. I think the sales was an excuse. It has something probably to do with extracurricular activities that Audi probably did not like.

Hey, Porsche had pretty great ads regardless of their sales. The ads, simple yet classy and confident, always caught my attention. Clever taglines, such as the one with the 911 Turbo Cabrio in the night starlight with the caption, "Pity you have nothing left to wish for."

This article is a travesty :) basically the industry as a whole as nearly caught up with Porsche. It is now up to Porsche to up the ante. BMWs are fine cars and the M3 is fun as hell, but I prefer the Porsche any day.

Some may prefer the BMW. Cannot put my finger on exactly what is it but Porsche is IT!

this the worst flame war post I ever read on this site, this is absolutely pathetic, AGENT001 you should be ashamed of yourself, how can you call yourself a journalist. What a bunch of nonsense and all this so that you can have the pleasure to read all those, well most of them, retarded, futile and childish comments.

Shame on you and all the other imbeciles that gave in putting their 2 cents in this thread. 001 owns you.

does that include you?

first, I didn't say "show me a faster car less", someone else did. And those aren't less anyway, they're the same price. You could also buy a Mustang, slap $15k worth of supercharger, brake and suspension upgrades on it, and have a faster car than any of these for less money.

And to that I say "who cares?" There's always something cheaper/faster. That doesn't make it "better".

Huu, and you should appreciate this because you're such a Lexus snob, at some point "brand" has to mean something. If my choices are two pretty much identically performing cars for the same price, only one is the absolutely hideous looking new Subaru STi and the other is a prestige marque, then I'm taking the prestige marque. Maybe when I was 16 (when I actually had that Mustang) I'd have gone the other way but my boy racer days are over. At 32 I'd rather be driving a BMW than an STi, period. Just as I'd imagine you'd rather have an IS-F over an STi (which incidentally performs very similarly, for $20k less).

But at the same time, the STi is ugly and cheap on the inside.

It can't be compared to the 135i, which is just as quick, has better handling, is nicer on the inside and looks better to boot.

BMW the new Porsche? You should be kidding! BMW lost the plot when it decided to expand the 1 series line up and now to add to their farcical decisions they have launched the X6! Seeing the X6, I have completely lost hope with BMW. Porsche is not having its best days, but yeah they still stand by their 911 philosophy - RWD, flat 6, manual transmission and I can take volumes about their time tested design.

Im one of the most hardcore BMW fans out there, but I dont agree. BMW is BMW, and Porsche is Porsche. 2 different things. BMW never had a direct porsche competitor, and NO, the Z4 isnt a direct competitor to the boxster OR cayman for that matter, and the price proves my point. But people always seem to wanna compare them.

BMWs isnt only about performance, they also focus on other aspects such as luxury, innovation, etc.. while porsche is more of a hardcore performance machine.

001,
I agree w/ this article. After owning Boxster S,C2,Cayenne S,C2S, I feel there is no point in going on. It is the same old car with minor cosmetic updates and it is getting old. Most people who never owned a Porsche are the fanatics who dream about it, but once you've had it, you come to realize there is nothing truly special about it. I was really impressed with the GTR when I saw it at LA auto show, and at the price of C2 with performance of a Turbo, that's what the market needs.

Porsche and BMW really sell to different markets. That fact is in the race results. Porsche races it's cars and wins (although it is getting harder each year). BMW sells fine cars and I've owned a few. But, if one could examine the sales numbers by demographics, I'd wager one would find that most 3 series cars are being driven by women, young fine looking women, but not those of use who are competitive car nuts. BMW's are marketed very well, but the vast majority of the drivers never will realize the handling value of the car unlike the number of Porsches one will see at a track day or "DE". It's like Brumos says, "we sell cars so we can race". BMW competes with Mercedes and Mercedes really doesn't compete well with anyone except in image. (Note: I own a CLS 500 and a Cayman S). In the final analysis, it's all about money for BMW, MB, et al. Porsche is a little different. Knock the Cayenne (a Tuareg at heart), but Porshce only makes the beast because folks in the US will buy it giving them hefty profits to continue to fund designing and building better, faster 911s (even though the engineering envelope is being pushed to its limit... the Cayman is a superior car lacking only the HP needed to beat any 911 including the Turbo, GT2, etc. But, BMW is not a competitor to Porsche. Even the Panamera, which will likely be a dud, is just an opportunity to make another buck off of image conscious Americans who want a Porsche, but need more than two seats.

BMW is and always will be a second rate German car. I have had 3 and they all are junk.

why did u buy second and theird since they were JUNK

Well stop buying used BMWs!

I am a lifelong Porsche and BMW fan, but Porsche is getting itself in a very difficult situation. The competition is getting better and by Porsche's own admission, the potential of the 911's formula (six-cylinder rear engine)is fast approaching its limitations. So Porsche can either make it's long-time fans happy and stick with the same old formula and become less competitive each year or they can abandon the formula, make a kick-butt car, and alienate a huge percentage of their fan-base. Very tough decisions ahead. And how lame that a car like the Cayman S can't get a monster engine because it would surely blow away the 911.

Meanwhile BMW continues to kick butt. After 20 years of increased competition, still no one is able to dethrone the 3, M3, M5, etc.

If anyone has doubts, read this review:
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2725b.shtml

Porsche still rules, maybe not for long, i.e., the 911, but BMW still isn't a valid competitor.