Geneva 2008: Volkswagen Golf Hybrid comes with 83.1 MPG

pretty impressive...substantially better emissions and MPG than a prius. and more importantly, it will actually be FUN TO DRIVE.

better in every dimension than the prius...

ok lexus, i'll generously assume your sources are correct. (doubtful)

so take 20% off the golf's mileage of 83mpg to account for additional oil that goes into diesel production and you get...66MPG. STILL better than the prius. and it'll be a ton of fun to drive while the prius has the driving dynamics of a box.

golf WINS for anyone who likes to drive.

"substantially better emissions and MPG than a prius. and more importantly, it will actually be FUN TO DRIVE."
marginally better emissions...but it's still a concept.
estimated better mpg...but it's still a concept.
fun to drive...but it's still a Golf.

"fun to drive...but it's still a Golf"

yes, and it's fun to drive. a prius (still a toyota) drive like a box.

car and driver said it best: "a snooze to drive" and
"Corollas are fireballs next to this machine. With skinny tires, numb steering, and a soft suspension, the Prius is about economy."

http://www.caranddriver.com/buying_guide/toyota/prius/2008_toyota_prius

so like i said, if you like to drive the golf is the obvious choice.

If, I had a choice between this thing which is still only a concept and Toyota Prius...I'ld honestly take Prius. Come on folks..be real..this is only a concept for now. If they do so decide to build it, fine. But my question is this: how gullable are some of you people? Go get some fresh air for god's sakes!!!!!

Toyota prius got PWNED!
LOL

Did you expect emissions/mpg to get worse as time went on?

I don't get it.

P.S.: The '86 Accord just got PWNED by the '08 Accord, it's unbelievable!

PWNED (how old are you?) by a concept? I think not.

What's more interesting is that it's a diesel-electric hybrid as the original article mentions.

it's just a concept.

Concept close to reality

im still not convinced that diesel is the way to go. Im glad that it gets such high mpg and such low CO2 emmisions,but what about other problems that are associated with diesel gas. particles etc etc

I'm quite sure it will have BlueMotion technology.

Particulate filters reduce particles to below petrol engine levels.

Everyone is a scientist now huh.
Diesel is not as clean as everyone asumes and it is not the way to go in the future.

Paticulate matter may not matter much in the atmosphere, but it sure matters in the air above the cities. (matter matters, sometimes i crack myself up)

That being said, I am sure this is one of those cleaner diesels, but we don't know, since it's just a CONCEPT.

If and when this car comes out, all the technology it will need-cleaner diesel (bluemotion or whatever), hybrid, turbos-will make it prohibitively expensive. If a car can get the mpg and emissions this one claims, it will do so at a hefty premium. Not to mention cost of diesel fuel, small packaging, 0-60 times. The way y'all are talking, this thing sounds like a $20,000 Tesla. Sign me up.

The Prius being more expensive in Denmark has more to do with supply/demand and exchange rate issues than the cost of the vehicle. So for all our problems in the US, I'll just be happy that at least a Prius comes in at a reasonable price here. I cant argue with that variable, I'm not going to even try. Once Toyota decides they want to sell Priuses en masse in Europe, the price will come down, and that argument will be moot.

The rest of your argument is just conjecture. Let's see...
"The 1.9TDI which most probably being used is actually cheaper (yes CHEAPER) than the comparable 1.6 gasoline version."
Probably, hmmm hard to tell considering this car doesnt exist, right? But a cleaner diesel engine will definitely be more expensive. The technology is not cheap.

"If they can keep the production costs of the hybrid drive below 2000€"
Yet for some reason, everyone thinks that Toyota hybrid engines are so expensive. Let's see Volkswagen come up with a reasonably priced hybrid engine on their first try.

"WHEN THEY DO EIGHTY MILES TO THE GALLON! I'd love to see a Prius do that!"
By the time (if ever) this VW concept comes out, you just may, as Toyota is about 18 months from delivering the next gen Prius.

your data is because diesel has more energy than gasoline, therefore it has more oil per gallon and more carbon per gallon, that's why the Europeans give you the real C02 figures, and 89 grams is LESS than 105, that's becaus the diesel engine is more fuel efficient. Get it?

Another nice thing about this car is it's originality.

It doesn't ripoff Audi like Honda does ;-\

Another nice thing that we can count on with EL34 (and thus laugh at) is his lack of writing skills ;-\

one could realisticly expect 60 MPG from this, WAY better than the priuses 35 expected MPG.

35...yeah keep deluding yourself

ok then, you go drive a prius around california, with the A/C turned on or a window down while listening to the radio. THEN tell me you got 35mpg+

If they were smart they'd make it a stand alone model because people are going to buy it to make a statement, not because of its mileage. Honda learned this and is coming out with dedicated hybrid models.

Very impressive! I hope this makes production as the first US market diesel-hybrid!

VW... the new green leader?

now lets wait for bmw audi and mb to follow...

Gee, just the other day I said we needed diesel-hybrids. Finally, a manufacturer ready to take the next step!

Diesel Hybrids are very expensive to manufacture. Diesel technology adds about $4000 to the production cost of a vehicle and the Hybrid technology is right below that. That's a lot of money for a power train. I agree, this is the best all around, no comprimise solution, it's just expensive to do.

Mercedes sell the 320cdi and 350 models for about the same price in Europe - and even Kia sells the Ce'd or whatever it's called diesel for the same price as the petrol.

Please people. The manufacturing cost of producing a diesel VS gas engine isn't completely passed on to the buying public so you don't usually see a $4000US difference in what the MSRP of the two. Usually it's around $1500-$2000 premium at retail. These vehicles are built for entirely different reasons right now. They help the manufacturers reach certain CAFE standards in the US and other countries that have them throughout the world thus lowering fines and taxes which help offset the cost.

The general buying public is not usually privy to manufacturing costs and expenses so I was simply trying to pass along info that is usually hard to find or come by. If you don't want to believe me, no worries.

Thanks to Toyota all other car companies are following its foot step into advanced technologies.

Thank you Toyota, and good job VW but I'm sure Toyota being the leader will beat these numbers.

"The Toyota Prius can easily get 90 mpg if driven properly. Fact.

Please show your proof.

You live in a little fantasy world, don't you?

Toyota won't be the "leader" forever. Fact.

There are seven other companies threatening to take the top spot. Fact. BMW, Metcedes-Benz, VW Group, Honda, Nissan, GM and Ford.

"Thanks to Toyota"

WRONG. it's government policy NOT toyota that is driving diesels and hybrid development.

thank you to the European Union for implementing very stringent new emissions and MPG requirement for all EU automakers. these will take effect in the next two years.

furthermore designer, toyota is already shooting itself in the foot with BAD HYBRID PRODUCT STRATEGY.

the three much touted lexus hybrids gets below average mileage and don't even qualify for PZEV emissions (even a standard 3-series can do that).

There is no way a Prius can get 90+mpg. I am happy to say I am wrong if you can show me where you get this fact from.

enthusiast, i have let you get away with your PZEV rant way too many times. You apparently know nothing about PZEVs. From a pollution standpoint, there is very little difference between a PZEV and an SULEV. "In order to qualify as a PZEV, a vehicle must meet the SULEV standard and, in addition, have zero evaporative emissions from its fuel system plus an extended (15-year/150,000-mile) warranty on its emission-control components" Every mfr needs to market a certain number of PZEVS in order to do business in California and CA emissions states. BMW chose to put the PZEV on its best selling car, the base 3 (328? 330? I cant keep track). Lexus doesnt have PZEVS because of the hundreds of thousands sold by Toyota- 4 cylinders Camrys and Priuses. The PZEV and of course SULEV contribution by Toyota is exponentially greater than that by BMW, so stop trotting it out as a comparison to Lexus every time. Counting PZEVs (tho important) is only one part of the emissions equation. The fact that all the Lexus hybrids are SULEV and they have plenty other models at ULEV speaks volumes about their environmental commitment.

toyota:

PZEV > SULEV > ULEV

therefore the BMW 3-series (PZEV like the prius) offers a better emissions rating than the lexus "hybrids" (SULEV).

it's really not a debate.

It's a straw man argument. You cannot compare the PZEVs of the 328 to the SULEVs of Lexus if you don't look at the bigger picture.

This is the same as saying that this Golf concept beats the Prius. Even if it came in at a higher mpg and lower CO2, would it be as fast, as large, as inexpensive, and emit as few smog forming pollutants? There are too many variables.

You love to break arguments down to one point and argue it like it is the only issue. I dont begrudge the 3 its PZEV rating, tho it only gets it in California. PZEVs require extra features that mfrs dont like to add to their cars because of the prohibitive cost. Thus most mfrs who offer it only do so in CA emissions states. It is generally not perceived by the consumer to be worth the cost, which is why unless mandated you generally cant buy PZEVs anywhere else. BMW only makes its CA 3 series PZEV worthy because it has to, in order to meet CA's CARB requirements.

This info is way too important to leave off the table when throwing out comments about BMW being green because they sell PZEVs. But your arguments always get lost in the details.

PZEV gets rid of all evaporative emissions. Evaporative emissions are just as bad as regular tailpipe emissions. SULEV cars are already super clean from the tailpipe, but can still have evaporative emissions, PZEV results in almost no emissions.

My point is not to dismiss the PZEV technology (though it really has little technology behind it.) It would be great if all cars had it. But it needs to be put in perspective. When someone says how green BMW is because they offer one model (and only with one engine choice) as a PZEV, they are completely missing the boat. Audi is not the evil polluting monster becasue they offer no PZEVs. They offer no PZEVs because Volkswagen offers them. You need to look at the bigger picture. Sadly, arguments against hybrids, especially when compared to concept cars always get reduced to one or two points, when the beauty of the Toy/Lex hybrids is their ability to encompass a number of qualities-mpg/emissions/style/luxury/perfromance/features, with few compromises.
If you really want to see how green BMW or any mfr is, look up
http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/Index.do;jsessionid=82309cb802e9797d4523
These are real cars, not concepts, and it show differences for CA cars and the cars the rest of the world gets. (BTW, PZEVs sure make CA look good)

No one green technology is going to power the vehicle needs of everyone. There is room for many. I support any green technology, even diesel hybrids. What I do not support is fanboys saying how great something new is when it has yet to be tested in the real world, while simultaneously dismissing vehicles that have proven themselves to be excellent, especially when the only real rationale for their argument is that one is Euro vs the other Japanese.

Ah not one those hybrid stories again! VW stick to your class leading diesel engines please!

Nice Fuel economy. But what's the performance?

JUGNU

Well, seeing as the least powerfull diesel in the Golf is already allot more powerfull then the engine in the Prius i wouldn't worry about that.

guaranteed better performance than a prius. won't have the prius' huge body roll, numb steering and lack of agility.

guaranteed, huh? U driven one?

you drive a prius right? a corolla looks like an M3 next to it.

have you driven a golf? they're quite a lot of fun!

No, what are you talking about?

They said the opposite--all diesel Merc SEDANS sold in the US will be Bluetecs, while all SUVs will stick with the plain "CDI" due to different emissions standards.

eliminate? NO.

they're launching 3 MORE bluetecs in the US later this year.

It's a CONCEPT people!!!! Near-production doesnt mean anything in the real world. The next Prius is near production, the Volt is near production, FCVs are near production.

Meanwhile the Prius still soldiers on as the cleanest, greenest, practical car out there.

I am just so sick of the Prius hating on the auto blogs. You people blow my mind.

toyota:

the german manufacturers typically who a car very close to the time it's fully produced. ex. X6 a few months ago, coming into production momentarily. and the golf is near-production.

of course, it's a double standard when it comes to your precious toylex. the LF-A for example has been a concept for 4 YEARS and it's not even approved for production. lol.

toyota:

the german manufacturers typically who a car very close to the time it's fully produced. ex. X6 a few months ago, coming into production momentarily. and the golf is near-production.

of course, it's a double standard when it comes to your precious toylex. the LF-A for example has been a concept for 4 YEARS and it's not even approved for production. lol.

this is great but they really need to improve quality.
VW is a better looking car than any toyota will ever be but their quality needs to improve. Go VW!!!!

Well I guess it will have the already pretty efficient 1.9 tdi enigne with about 105 hp that does 0-62 in about 11.5 seconds...plus an electric motor...I reckon 0-62 10 seconds and under? But it will be expensive of course. However the 1.9 tdi has been in production for ever, so they don't need to spend lots of money making a new engine. I expect it to be a bit less than the 170 hp diesel Golf - at least I hope so.

It's not THAT small!

And a beach buggy...I'll give it a straight-through exhaust, remove the roof and paint it bright green too...actually it sounds quite fun!

Wow - even with my absolutely zero understanding of Danish, I can see that is an amazing and groundbreaking vehicle, which bears no resemblance to the failure that was the Sinclair C5. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_C5)
It looks very cool. :S
I'll buy it off you! Wait, I might regret that...

They say a persons car reflects their personality. Some pruis drivers drive them for the sole purpose of savings a few bucks a month on gas, and can put up with the fact its a hideous box on wheels. And some drive it for the fact that its "good for the environment" which is a huge crock of bull. Humans that think that we can actually kill this planet are simply arrogant. It will be here long, long after were gone.
Basically, Pruis drivers are tools, imo.

agreed.

SOOO many prius drivers are pompous poseurs who want to drive a political statement. meanwhile, they live in huge houses, leave lights on, etc. etc. while they preach to the rest of us how horrible we are. far too many hypocrites driving those cars.

you nailed it sailor.

plug-in cars make sense in countries like france that generate the majority of their electricity from nuclear sources.

given all the environment concerns over nuclear (a rich irony) the US is saddled with mostly coal-fired power plants that would render a plug-in car the height of hypocrisy.

YAWN...I wont touch this thing with a bargepole. VW give me a 2.0 TDI 6 speed, thank you very much!

VW rocks!!!!!!! Don't hate.....celebrate. But keep your fire extinguisher handy in case your car catches fire.

Prius never got 65MPG!?! New EPA rates it at 45MPG. Not sure if New Golf hybrid's MPG rated under the new EPA but sounds good.

I wish other car companies would offer Hybrid only cars and not just hybrid versions of existing cars.

I concure

There are so many "concept" based cars now that get 60-100 mpg on gas or diesel. Personally speaking, I can at least buy a Prius. VW/GM/Chrysler and others all talk a big talk at the auto shows, but where are the cars on the showroom floors? I have owned a Prius since 2001. I also owned a VW at the same time. I just dumped the VW because it was such a POC. It was a 2002 Eurovan. In America we have a saying - Put up or shut up.