Hyundai on Lexus: If Toyota can do it, why not us

Toyota was smart enough to use a new nameplate!

LOL! Thats another reason!

People don't get fooled any more with a new nameplate or with the weakening of a model name by assigning it to a lower-priced car in a future year. What I really hate is the European marketing quirk of giving an industrial product a model name instead of a number.

1995, I don't think it was a choice. They don't have enough money to start a new brand yet.

And the Toyota itself name was recognized for quality and durability without the advent of a contrived luxury brand.

Hyundai is known for bargains, and they didn't even take the time to set up a different brand and retail channel to distance the new car from the name 'Hyundai.'

In my opinion, the only way the Hyundai can succeed in the luxury market is to start a new company. Not a division of Hyundai, but a new entity that just happens to be owned, funded, and controlled by Hyundai.

Any attempts to retail upscale cars would require a lot of distance from the very low-brow and undesirable Hyundai name.

I agree. I think of toyota as being higher end car than Hyundai. And they need to brush off that thought to be a real player in the game.

That many outside of America still regard as Toyota.

and many outside of america also recognize that toyota, unlike gm, ford and chrysler, is a FULL LINE mfgr like mercedes. a whole RANGE of quality cars had borne the toyota nameplate, including several upscale models.

america had seened mostly, if not exclusively, only the LOW END toyota models.

it was marketing genius on toyota's part to set up the Lexus line. while distancing it upmarket, it still had the established REPUTATION of toyota in the background.

compare vw's failed Phaeton effort. vw had decades more experience than hyundai and even toyota. but their attempt to flog a 'luxury' vw on a sophisticated target market was an utter Phailure!

hyundai will NEVER be able to flog a 'luxury' car without a fresh, new nameplate. if they expect to follow in toyota's footsteps, they need to follow the marketing strategy too.

vw didn't, THINKING "german engineering' would overcome the basic psychological need of people to have PRIDE in their cars, AND its nameplate.

if hyundai hasn't LEARNED from this, the car deserves to fail too.

I'm not so sure a new nameplate would help them so much right now. Toyota had already established themselves as a competent automaker before Lexus came along. Hyundai doesn't really have that advantage so what good would another moniker/logo, that everybody would still know is Hyundai, do for the Genesis right now? Judging by half the responses regarding the Genesis on this site, None.

The article said that if all goes well with Genesis, they'll put it under a new luxury nameplate in 5 years(probably for its 2nd gen model) and I think thats a good idea. This car is a test of sorts for them to show the world that they're capable of building good cars. Once they're taken more seriously then they can move on up to the next step.

Hyundai now has just about reached parity in terms of quality with Toyota and Honda and Nissan. Toyota and Honda and Nissan originally started out with small economy cars in the US.Lots of parallels here. I see no reason why they cannot compete in the Luxo segment.It all depends on how Genesis is marketed. Infiniti originally did a terrible job with their original Q45. If you remember those 1st ads they did not show "anything".It did not work and gave Lexus a great running start advantage. So whether they go with a new luxury division or not I think marketing plays a big part in it.

"Hyundai on Lexus: If Toyota can do it, why not us"

Well, the Genesis looks just like the LS460 which looks like a homogenization of BMW, Mercedes & Audi products.

So why the hell not? :-/

Agreed. +1 EL.

no, it DOES NOT look like the sophisticated LS460, which has an elegant "flying buttress" C-pillar and looks MUCH more elegant and sophisticated.

it more resembles the 7-series with its UGLY "Kinky Hoffy" C-pillar, which so many boy racer econoboxes share too now.

in profile, the C-pillar is THE distinguishing hallmark of any vehicle. it makes or breaks the overall styling impression. (being also prominent in 3/4 views from front and rear.)

the LS460 is simply in a class by itself.

You're either blind, stupid, or a liar. The LS460 is another amorphous blend of other cars' designs. The LS is in a class by itself okay: '2nd. class luxo barges.'

XYZZ, you're really pushing it.

You usually sound ridiculously stubborn, but this is over the top.

The Hyundai Genesis truly DOES look like an LS460. I saw the car at the auto show, and it's very stylish. To me, it actually has more of a "wow" factor than the Lexus, probably because Hyundai was smart enough to give the car a little body surfacing and attractive wheels. However, when both are on the street, the LS will look better, because it still costs about twice the price.

Hm. The LS is in a class all by itself. Would that class be the "value-priced feature-stuffed fun-free 'luxury' sedan" class?

ratings of overall mechanical goodness, ergonomics, controls, fit & finish, etc. on the basis of comprehensive ROAD TESTS:

lexus ls460l 99
mercedes S550 86
audi a8 77
jaguar xj8 76
mercedes cls500 73
bmw 745li 70

again, these are the results of extensive road tests by auto engineers, NOT journalists. and on cars PURCHASED by the tester, CR, not possible 'sleepers' LOANED by the makers to magazine testers.

yes, the tests are by Consumer Reports, which tends to be put down by fans of cars not rated highly. but they ARE TOTALLY OBJECTIVE, and not influenced by possible loss of ad revenues.

AND, these are (did i say) ROAD TEST results. without the RELIABILITY and owner satisfaction results factored in yet. both of which put the lexus EVEN FURTHER ahead of all rivals.

as i said, the ls460 is in a class by itself. and the silent, efficient ls460hl is EVEN MORE exclusive.

Why not us?????

I can tell you why. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Toyota Motor Corporation made 14,000,000,000 dollars in revenues last year and is The richest Automaker in The World, and the U.S. (the world's most powerful country) #1 Luxury brand, world's best selling car, and of Course U.S. Best selling car....

Define Lexus:
Luxury
EXport
United
States

United States Meaning powerful, Lexus means powerful, richest, Commander in cheif,

Thats why.....

Hyundai has deep pockets, too. I wouldn't begin to know how to compare the two properly, but i do know that Hyundai is partly owned or funded by the state of Korea, and that Hyundai heavy industries makes a lot of money building heavy industrial equipment and ships. I'm pretty sure that Hyundai motors has access to enough money to take Lexus (with regard to spending on r&d and marketing) on if they were properly committed to such an undertaking.

As company revenues grow, each successive chief executive becomes evermore pressured to break the financial performance record of his predecessor. Sooner or later market penetration and sales reach a plateau at which point he starts cutting costs in order to keep profits growing. That is when overall product quality starts to deteriorate. That is why you get a better product and/or better value from a company like Audi, Subaru, and Hyundai.

"pushrod27"

What da hell????

I know we are not comparing Korea to Japan

Japan home to some of the largest financial services companies, business groups and bank such as Sony, Sumitomo, Mitsubishi and Toyota. It is also home to the world's largest bank by asset, Japan Post Bank (US$3.2 trillion) and others such as Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group (US$1.2 trillion). Mizuho Financial Group (US$1.4 trillion)and Sumitomo Mitsui Financial Group (US$1.3 trillion). The Tokyo Stock Exchange with a market capitalization of over 549.7 trillion Yen as of December 2006 stands as the second largest in the world.

Hyundai may have deep pockets, but not as nearly close to Toyota Motor Corporation

"Hyundai has spent about $600 million over four years in the development of the luxury sedan. Originally it had planned to offer the Genesis as a separate brand altogether but rejected the idea because of marketing expense."

hyundai decided to CHEAP OUT on the marketing and investment commitment.

if the car succeeds DESPITE this, kudos to them. but i predict there will be at best, only a lukewarm reception, based largely on price.

the success of Lexus was NOT an accident. toyota put a lot of THOUGHT, engineering talent, marketing savvy, AND CAPITAL INVESTMENT behind it. which is why even Acura (the FIRST upmarket japanese brand) and Infiniti have not matched Lexus' level of success.

Just throw a name badge on the thing and market them as being "BMW" killers. They'll eat them up and start posting retarded messages here on Autospies claiming Automotive Supremacy. Sound familiar?

good points, Huu. Toyota/Lexus has a distinct advantage not only over Hyundai, but EVEN over audi/vw, mb and bmw.

lesser models are marketed under the toyota and scion labels. Lexus can and i project will ALWAYS be, kept as an EXCLUSIVELY LUXURY line.

the success of this strategy initiated 19 years ago is ALREADY evident. despite the 100+ year heritage of the german brands, toyota has SLINGSHOT PAST them to become the #1 carmaker on the planet.

"lesser models are marketed under the toyota and scion labels. Lexus can and i project will ALWAYS be, kept as an EXCLUSIVELY LUXURY line."

Why would this be an advantage over Audi and VW?

Let's see. To cover the lower end: VW, SEAT, Skoda

Upper end: Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche (owner)

Yeah, HUGE advantage for Toylex.

ok s4, maybe i shoulda not included vw/audi.

but even with all those brands together, the company still sells nowhere as much as the toyota group.

further, vw/audi has become sort of like gm. a lot of BRANDS, but only a few are truly distinguished. they may even possibly have OVERextended themselves, like ford did. not saying it WILL happen, but there is a possibility they may have to sell off a brand or two in a cash crunch. even bmw had to dump rover.

toyota's strength is being able to CONCENTRATE resources among just a few STRONG brands. few, but still with models covering the whole spectrum, short of expensive exotics like lamborghini. (until the LF-A hits showrooms)

I like Hyundai, but to starting believing in the Sonata ?! They should get rid of the sonata and replace it with a better car. So it ups their "Luxury Image"

I will buy a Lexus LS460 when they build'em in America ;-)

I guess you'll never own one because that'll will never happen.

Exclusive cars from Toyota are and will be kept building in Japan. Even all Toyota Camry Hybrids only are build only in Japan. The Lexus LS will never see birth here in U.S.

The bottom line is...how does it drive? If it drives well (ride and handling) and doesn't feel cheap then they may have a winner on their hands. Four yrs ago I bought a 3 yr old Acura RL for my wife (cost $27K). If the Genesis competes well with a used '04 or '05 RL I'll buy the V6 Genesis, otherwise it's back to Acura. Its as simple as that.

"Hyundai on Lexus: If Toyota can do it, why not us?"


Hmmmm. Maybe because Toyota has built good cars for so long people trust Lexus. Hyundai, on the other hand, has built POS cars up until a few years ago. If you ask me, they need another decade before they should even consider building a luxury car. And they need a new name for a luxury car. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to get a "fancy" car with the Hyundai name on it.

Lest you forget the Toyota of the 80's were big POS.

Oh really? Please show us sources. Toyota has never been POS. NEVER EVER. Now I can name several american cars and German cars that were POS in the 80's....The 80's is when people were first starting to buy Japanese cars when they were strating to realize who reliable they were.

1980's is when the shift from American cars to Japanese cars like Toyota Cressida, Acura Legend, Honda Accord, etc... Came to play....

yup. kpaxx is just talking out of his kpASS!

the first new car i ever bought was a 1971 toyota corona hardtop. i cross shopped it against EVERY other small car. the domestics cost more, but offered less. build quality and interiors were also shoddy by comparison.

my short list got narrowed down to Datsun (510, now an import classic), Dodge/Mitusbishi Colt, and the Toyota.

toyotas had NOT YET gotten the reputation for bulletproof reliability. i chose it mainly on the basis of it having the largest engine-- 1900cc vs. 1500/1600. also, a year earlier, it would NOT have made my list. the corona switched from an ohv to an ohc engine in '71.

in retrospect, i made the best and smartest choice. DESPITE the lack of a reputation then, DESPITE the ohc engine being new and untested, that 1971 toyota was by far THE MOST RELIABLE CAR I EVER OWNED, until i got an '86 nissan truck.

not counting normal wear items, my TOTAL COST to replace busted parts came to less than $25 for the first 7 years. TOTAL.
the car would've lived far longer, but got rolled. i 'downgraded' to a used '69 ford ltd for a few years.

for the nissan truck, the equivalent was ~$55 over 7 years. and a '94 toyota truck which replaced it, one $15 part replaced under warranty. MY COST was $0 over 11 years. (again, excluding NORMAL wear items.)

bottom line: japanese vehicles were superior to domestics FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.

japanese cars had been of excellent quality since at least the 1960s. but it took the gas crises of the 1970s before americans bought them in significant numbers. which led to the general DISCOVERY of just how great cars they were.

a similar thing occurred in the computer industry. i don't recall the exact year(s), but assemblers had tended to use only domestic chips. when a supply crunch developed, some companies ordered japanese chips.

there's a story of one company sending a purchase order to japan. it specified that the defect rate should not exceed 5 defective pieces per 5,000.

the order came shipped in two parts. one had 5,000 perfect chips. the other had just 5, with a short note: sirs, here are the 5 bad chips you ordered.

Now I get it! If Toyota could easily compete and steal BMW's market with Lexus, why can't Hyundai also! Hyundai is using Lexus as a role model and BMW as the target. That's why the commercials were targeting BMW.

lol. i cant imagine anyone ever driving a bmw, benz, audi switching to hyundai.

maybe lexus es 350 shoppers, infiniti , acura, volvo owners.

ill take a sega genesis before a hyundai genesis .

you would be surprised. i personally knew a guy who traded his mercedes for an opel kadett.

people had also thot as Hyundai's market share was growing, they were stealing sales from the japanese.

but toyota and honda's market share WERE ALSO GROWING at the same time.

so hyundai's growth was at the expense of DETROIT! (and maybe fractionally, from 2d and 3d tier japanese brands.)

today, even Detroit cars have better RELIABILTY than euro cars. so it's QUITE likely, that this uber Hyundai will steal sales from the german trio rather than lexus.

EL34
I will buy a Lexus LS460 when they build'em in America ;-)
YOU'Re NOT WORTHY....

they had there chances to rebadge this before the super bowl, to late, its not a bad thing either, new age, new buyers, good 4 hyundai... just like there commercials "ahh yes the hyundai genesis, more spacious then a MB s-class" classic hyundai LMAO "where not sure what USA today will say about this ad but where pretty sure MB, Bmw and lexus arent gonna like it very much LMFAO, im sure too