New IS-F M3 C63 Comparo, MotorTrend

New IS-F M3 C63 Comparo, MotorTrend
Comparison: 2008 BMW M3 vs. 2008 Lexus IS F vs. 2008 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG

"The C63's turn-in is crisp, with plenty of honest feedback and a meaty feel."

"Lexus equips the IS F with electric power steering, which isn't as organic as a good hydraulic system. It's fine for normal to moderate driving, but loses sensitivity when you're really honking it. The IS F's cornering abilities are impressive, but the car understeers heavily at the limit, and the wheel feels disconnected at that point."

"The BMW's tiller is about as quick as the others but a bit lighter. Its communication is even clearer than the C63's, with plenty of true road feel."

"Constant grip levels range between 0.95 g (Lexus and Mercedes) to 0.97 for the BMW, so call this area a tie. Braking is much the same, with just a five-foot spread covering the three cars. Real-world driving reveals the differences."

"The C63 is a good overall handler, with a stiffish, performance-oriented ride. It corners well, lets you know where it's going, and will happily stick its tail out if provoked."

"The IS F feels aggressive yet poised unless you're pushing it. It stays neutral right until its cornering limits and then plows hard. High-speed mid-corner bumps will unsettle it a bit, but again only when really on it."

"Balance is again the word that describes the M3. It was the quickest through our figure-eight test, which combines acceleration, braking, transition cornering, and grip. The BMW is the most agile and athletic of the bunch."

"Two areas stand out here: seats and steering wheels. In keeping with its ballsy nature, the C63 has firm, thickly bolstered front buckets. A few said they're too hard, too aggressive for the street, yet they were everyone's favorite when on the racetrack. The BMW's seating is comfy for street work, but doesn't have enough support to keep you planted during really hard cornering. Rookie Lexus's chairs are a reasonable compromise between the two."

"A couple of clunky design elements let it down, and its steering and suspension calibrations aren't as well synthesized at the limit as the others. As the IS F costs no less than the German duo, there's no value card to be thrown."

"BMW's magnificent M3 is the newest in a 20-plus-year line and is the best one yet. A performer by any measure, and its best-in-test times on the racetrack and through our figure-eight test demonstrate that its various aspects work together better than the others. The BMW is lithe and athletic yet never punishing, and it comes in a package you can use and enjoy every day."

"Lexus fell a few steps short inside. The console and other areas are splashed with an aluminized carbon-fiber-looking stuff that won't be to everyone's taste. And the nav screen and buttons come right out of the Prius, although the setup works well enough."

Motor Trend Comparo Results

1st Place - BMW M3


2nd Place - MERCEDES-BENZ C63 AMG


3rd Place - LEXUS IS F


Link:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sports/112_0805_bmw_m3_lexus_is_f_mercedes_c63_amg_comparison/index.html


Read Article

delandelan - 3/14/2008 3:19:31 AM
+13 Boost
Yawn, how predictable!


carnutscarnuts - 3/14/2008 3:27:30 AM
+12 Boost
yep, I agree. The IS-F hasn't won one comparo, you think it would win this one.

Last Place!


BIGgunzBlazinBIGgunzBlazin - 3/14/2008 3:42:20 AM
+9 Boost
Last Place, Ouch.


PorschinatorPorschinator - 3/17/2008 3:06:17 PM
+2 Boost
Well it is Lexus's first attempt. BMW and MB have been doing this for years upon years. And it shows! M3 does rock.


carnutscarnuts - 3/14/2008 3:28:28 AM
+17 Boost
They even ripped on the IS-F interior.

"Lexus fell a few steps short inside. The console and other areas are splashed with an aluminized carbon-fiber-looking stuff that won't be to everyone's taste. And the nav screen and buttons come right out of the Prius, although the setup works well enough"

The last argument the Lex fanboys fall onto, sorry.


SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 3/15/2008 5:21:19 AM
+2 Boost
The Japanese try to mimick European luxury, look at the LS460 there is nothing Japanese about it. It has no soul. It just tries to be someone else


carnutscarnuts - 3/14/2008 3:29:59 AM
+6 Boost
Knotch up another win for the M3 in a comparo.

The IS-F isn't even a match for the C63.


abcdabcd - 3/14/2008 5:09:04 AM
-10 Boost
yes it can match becouse it was faster on 2.7-mi Road course lap with 2 min, 38.6 sec than C63 - 2 min, 39.0 sec despite less power and less straight line acceleration , M3 was the fastest .
Here is also one interesting citation:
"Today's BMW shifters are what they are: not mushy, but with a disconnected feel about them, as if the stick were the size of a straw. We'd wish for something more like what you'd find in a Porsche Carrera, Mitsu Evo, or MX-5. "
Not everything is good in M3. IS-F gearbox is brilliant , 0,1 sec shifting time only ferrari can beat this , even twin clutch gearboxes are slower . probably becouse of that gearbox it was faster that C63


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 3/14/2008 8:04:38 AM
+14 Boost
abcd, you've erroneously said in several threads now that the Lexus automatic shifting in 100ms is faster than every other transmission, including dual clutches. That's wrong. First off, there are other regular automatic transmissions that shift in 100ms, including the Mercedes 7GTRONIC in the C63 and BMW's Sport Steptronic in the 5 and 6-series (and soon the rest of the lineup). So the Lexus transmission isn't even the fastest automatic, let alone dual clutches, which are faster than ALL automatics. Dual clutch transmissions, by nature of the fact that they are can engage the next gear while still in the previous gear (that's the "dual clutch" part), shift virtually instanaeously. You're talking 15ms, or less than 1/6 the amount of time it takes to shift in an automatic.


MonkMonk - 3/14/2008 12:39:44 PM
+3 Boost
don't listen to abcd
he only can count to 4 letters


stash84stash84 - 3/14/2008 6:14:16 PM
-3 Boost
monk- youre retarted, people dont count letters, they count numbers..maybe youre just "euro"


abcdabcd - 3/14/2008 7:06:56 PM
-3 Boost
I didn`t write that is-f transmission is the faster than every other transmission , you said that bmw and mercedes shifts in 100ms so it is the same time as is-f , so they don`t beat is-f , i said that only ferrari beat is-f so it`s true . dual clutch : yes it can be much faster if it has prepared gear that you want to engage but if you want engage other gear that is prepared that shift take 0,4 sec e.g. when gearbox is prepared to upshift but you want to downshift . and 2.7-mi Road course lap : it`s clearly show that M3 is faster than is-f , C63 and that is-f is faster than C63 despite less power and worse straight line acceleration - DTM construction "influence" didn`t help mercedes


carnutscarnuts - 3/14/2008 8:49:34 PM
+1 Boost
abcd

Lap times

M3 - 154.2 sec.

C63 - 158.0 3.8 sec. back

IS-F - 158.6 4.4 sec. back

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sports/112_0805_bmw_m3_lexus_is_f_mercedes_c63_amg_comparison/photo_16.html

SO, YOU ARE WRONG.

The IS-F had the slowest time.


abcdabcd - 3/15/2008 5:08:14 AM
0 Boost
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sports/112_0805_bmw_m3_lexus_is_f_mercedes_c63_amg_comparison/specifications.html
here are said that numbers:
2.7-mi Road course lap M3-2 min, 34.2 sec ;IS-F-2 min, 38.6 sec ;C63-2 min, 39.0 sec
ok , maybe they do mistake rewriting times and C63 is a little faster than is-f , but we can look at the Weight to power ratio: M3-8.8 lb/hp ;IS-F-9.2 lb/hp ;C63-8.9 lb/hp . i think that is the reason of that 0,6sec . so what conclusion might we deduce: racing in DTM don`t help constructing better performance cars than cars that don`t even racing anywhere


BIGgunzBlazinBIGgunzBlazin - 3/14/2008 3:43:16 AM
+6 Boost
Nice article, they go into good detail about each car.

M3 is a great car. I would take the monster C63.


528i528i - 3/14/2008 4:25:06 AM
+11 Boost
you got to give Lexus creadit for trying. But the m3 is the king.


07G35J07G35J - 3/14/2008 11:23:00 AM
+1 Boost
I agree, and it was a nice first try. I'm sure they'll go back to the drawing board and try again.


HantraHantra - 3/14/2008 12:09:40 PM
0 Boost
Sure they tried. But to try with a chromed out Corolla is just. . embarrassing.


MunichRobMunichRob - 3/14/2008 6:07:11 AM
-1 Boost
Exactly I would desire to own an IS-F if it wasn't for the M3 & basically all of its other competitors being the C63 & RS4.

The IS-F is a great 1st try you can't deny that, especially for a platform that wasn't even originally built for a V-8.


SX123SX123 - 3/14/2008 8:40:48 AM
-8 Boost
Where is American?


vman1013vman1013 - 3/16/2008 10:45:40 AM
0 Boost
The CTS-V could be considered a competitor. And in the next year or so the CTS-V Coupe comes out. Otherwise there are no other American competitors I can think of.


SX123SX123 - 3/14/2008 8:41:14 AM
-18 Boost
Where is American?


SX123SX123 - 3/14/2008 8:42:41 AM
-18 Boost
When is American compared?


SX123SX123 - 3/14/2008 8:45:14 AM
-19 Boost
Who compares American?


MateMate - 3/14/2008 8:50:47 AM
+5 Boost
I dont know if anybody gives, but have you seen what the IS-F's engine looks like under that grotesque plastic cover? What a mess. I like all three cars, and by all means i wouldn't mind having any of them. Yet, i think the Lexus is dynamically challenged; both in styling and handling. The BMW sets the benchmark in terms of dynamics.


LexSucksLexSucks - 3/15/2008 11:09:18 PM
+2 Boost
I saw that picture in the car mag. The IS-F motor looked horrible without the engine cover. It was disgusting.


NItePhireNItePhire - 3/14/2008 8:56:15 AM
+8 Boost
Does anyone know if Infiniti will ever come out with its own performance badge. IMO I think that they would defeat or come closer to topping the M3 than the other candidates.


07G35J07G35J - 3/14/2008 11:27:23 AM
+3 Boost
I would LOVE to see Infiniti enter this field. I don't know about them defeating the M3, but I'm sure they would make one fine contender.


GTR35GTR35 - 3/14/2008 1:03:55 PM
+3 Boost
I heard a few months back that Infiniti was planning on using the VR38TT used on the GTR as an option for the G and M class. Lets hope they do.

As this comparison goes... I am so glad that all those Toyota fans are no longer in Autospies like they were last year Praising the then-non-existing IS-F. As far as I'm concerned the IS-F is still Non-Existing.


stash84stash84 - 3/14/2008 6:11:07 PM
+3 Boost
i heard a couple YEARS back the g35 was going to come out with TT..but then they made the gtr. the 3.8tt would be great. id definitely jump on that because the G is beautiful


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 3/14/2008 10:48:30 AM
+2 Boost
"The Lexus and the Mercedes feel like performance versions created out of something else. The M3 feels like it was born this way." Ed Loh's summary is even more succinct: "The Lexus and Mercedes are great hot-rod sedans. The M3 is a race car with four doors."

all impressive cars...but that pretty much sums it up.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 3/16/2008 2:02:32 AM
+1 Boost
I want this.

Again.


BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 3/14/2008 10:57:54 AM
+3 Boost
BMW M3 ( 3 ) vs Lexus IS-F ( 0 ) ... Can we go through a clean sweep?


GTR35GTR35 - 3/14/2008 1:42:19 PM
+1 Boost
Clean sweep it is.


BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 3/14/2008 11:18:07 AM
+3 Boost
That is not entirely true. The M3 has been around longer than the Audi RS4 & the Mercedes C-class AMG. The M3 is the benchmark for this segment. It is the car that everyone strives to beat. I do agree that competition brings out the best in the companies. This is the Best M3 that BMW has ever produced. YOu have to go drive one, it is something magnificent. The engine is a work or art in the sound it produces.


BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 3/14/2008 11:11:58 AM
0 Boost
Wow, I knew the Lexus was smaller, but didnt realize it was that much smaller. 4" of rear seat leg room, 1" of less headroom and 2" of shoulder room.


answeranswer - 3/14/2008 11:18:12 AM
+6 Boost
Seriously though, when you're testing these three cars there is no loser.

They each kick all kinds of ass, just in different flavors.


CorcoranCorcoran - 3/15/2008 1:21:01 PM
0 Boost
agreed


EL34EL34 - 3/14/2008 11:40:38 AM
-1 Boost
Congratulations to all 3 cars and especially to the whelp.


germeezy2germeezy2 - 3/14/2008 11:52:52 AM
-6 Boost
Those times were on the slow side for the C63, the reality is its a step above from the other two in actual performance with times as fast as 3.9 0-60.
The IS-F is a good effort but still not class competitive. Which still amazes me because the first gen CTS-V did win several comparo's against the M cars.


WhelanWhelan - 3/14/2008 12:24:34 PM
+1 Boost
I'll read the full article when it comes out in the magazine. Don't want to spoil too much. I feel the 1, 2, 3 was justified being that the IS-F is the brand new guy in the market, for them to come in and literally crush out the M3 and C63 would be blasphemous. Although I must give credit to Lexus for it's first attempt. Even though it has yet to win a comparo, many reviews still give Lexus validity in stating they have created a good, competant first model for this range. It will be interesting to see what they do for future variants.

As for the M3 and C63, nothing really new. The M3 is more tight and sportier in terms of steering response and seating and balance. The C63 has always been a little more on the luxo side with more comfort appeal. The Lexus seems to be trying to pry itself midway between the MB and BMW, but it seems to have fallen a little short.

All in all still a great comparo and I think Lexus did a decent job for their first run.


recca7recca7 - 3/14/2008 12:30:12 PM
0 Boost
keep bringing in the camparo's, i highly doubt there will be one where this IS-F trumps all 3 cars..where are those fanboys now? couple months ago all those arragonant fools could do was rant on about how it's going to "the king" of this segment without an ounce of proof, they relied on hype and speculation, plus little clips of it going around laguna...well finally we have actual tests and facts, i hope you fanboys are reading this and have learned to keep your mouth shut about who the winner is going to be, until facts are presented


BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 3/14/2008 1:10:50 PM
0 Boost
Xero .. fuel efficientcy goes to the BMW .. MT fuel consumption was 19.7 M3, 17.9 IS-F ... Also, it doesnt say that the ISF is the best daily driver. The M3 handled better, was quicker around the track and has a perfect sprts car balance. The whole point of the test was to take it to a track to find out what the Best Sports Sedan is. The test wasnt to find out which one is more comfortable to drive from Chicago to LA.




abcdabcd - 3/14/2008 7:15:48 PM
+4 Boost
better lap time isn`t pointless attempt , in performance cars better lap time have a point


LE34LE34 - 3/14/2008 1:03:40 PM
+4 Boost
There are few car lovers here writing in this site. I'm wonder why we're waiting for some magazines to test the cars which are available to drive by ourself in the dealers. I've already tested the new M3 for two days. My impression: It's fantastic, however i've felt some strange vibrations on higspeed in the steering wheel but maybe it was beacause of the tires. At the end of this month, the ISF will be available here in Switzerland to test drive and i'll do that. I'll make my opinion on those cars insted of accepting every thing that the car magazines say(i've to try myself). I still hasitate between this two cars and will take my decision after trying the ISF.



CorcoranCorcoran - 3/15/2008 1:30:22 PM
+3 Boost
Thank you, finally. I drive an 06' M3 and have been carefully considering the new m3. (Hypothetically, I always have been but much more seriously within the last few months) I have yet to test one since none are available in my area but I've heard from those that have that something is "lacking" in the new platform.

What is it exactly? I've driven the 07' 330, 330Xi and the 335 and I can't pin it to one single objective quality... Mind you, I drive a BMW but am not a fanboy of any brand. Please help.


LE34LE34 - 3/15/2008 2:42:54 PM
+3 Boost
I've drove it for more that 300km. I just give my impression absolutly neutraly, here are some points:

+ It's a real pleasure to drive it
+ The driver is in direct contact with this car
+ It seems to be alive
+ It's poised at high speed
+ The engine sound is beautiful at low and normal rev
+ Very pleasant when you push the pedal at highspeed
+ The manual tanny and the clatch were fantastic

- There is some strange vibrations in the steering wheel at speed.
- The cars is very agressive and few times in the city(Geneva) when i pushed it the rear of the car lost the control and i strated to very careful, but i think you get used to it
- I didn't like the dashboard and the inside but it's probably subjective
- It becomes totaly wild when you push it at low speed, so we were two in the car and the other guy have not realy appriciate.

All in all it's a great car, i realy liked it. I'll try the ISF in two weeks and take my decision between these two. By the way, actualy i drive a Z4 wich is a pure pleasure.

PS: Sorry for my bad english.


CorcoranCorcoran - 3/15/2008 9:30:39 PM
+2 Boost
LE34, thanks for the reply. Please don't apologize for your grammar; its nice to read a post from someone who actually drives and enjoys the cars that everyone here gets so pissy about.

Its kind of interesting; I wrote a review of my M3 back in April of 2006 before I bought it and your thoughts on the new M3 are very similar to that of mine in 2006. For example, the clutch feel and gearbox was direct and sharp, the car was a pain in the ass to drive in a city, and high speed maneuvering was scary... things that you slowly get used to if you know what you are doing. However the M3 has always had these attributes, and this is what makes it truly special to drive.

My friend is giving me crap because he knows he can outperform me in his chipped 08' 335 as well as pay much less. (He thinks he can, with light suspension modifications, beat the new m3 around the VIR) My reply was: "well, thats fine. You're not driving an M3." I know my comment lacks any objective credibility or the numbers to back it up, but thats what it ends up being...

I digress..

LE34, my last question for you, i promise, is if you drove the RS4 for comparison. I actually thought about selling the M3 to buy a new RS4 because the engine was that good. What are your thoughts? If the ISF fails to move you, is the new m3 the only choice?

p.s.: Z4? Thats one fun car to drive!


LE34LE34 - 3/16/2008 5:41:56 AM
+1 Boost
I still haven't drive the RS4. Though i believe that Audi's are excellent cars, i'm more interested about M3 and ISF. But you give me a good idea here.I will test drive it and can of course give my personal impressions in this site.
If the ISF fails to move me, i'll buy the M3. But to be honest i'm also thinking about the new GT-R and this from last monday when i was in Geneva Auto show. The great point about the GT-R is that the price is more or less same as ISF and M3 but the hic is that we've to wait one year to receive it, because the production for europe will start from december 08.


Threepoint1415926Threepoint1415926 - 3/14/2008 1:47:08 PM
+2 Boost
*Waiting patiently for my copy in the mail to read* I think I'm with Clarkson on this one... I'll take mine in AMG form please! M3 may be a more dynamic car but I like monstrous brutes that want to eat my head off.


theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 3/14/2008 3:10:59 PM
-3 Boost
XeroK00L, Yeah I would have believed that if you had brought up the 1/4 miles speed.


BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 3/14/2008 2:12:44 PM
0 Boost
psst the boss, the difference is the EPA gas mileage for the highway is 19 M3 vs 20 ISF. You are right that makes all the difference in the world. Anyone who is anyone that owns a BMW knows that their cars get significantly better gas mileage on the highway than what the EPA states.

Is that the only arguement for the lexus fans. lmao ... M3 ( 3 ) vs IS-F ( 0 ) ...


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 3/14/2008 2:54:45 PM
+3 Boost
for crying out loud Xero. Gas mileage? These are essentially race cars for the street, and now you're resorting to gas mileage? No one buying these cars is going to make the decision based on gas mileage.

Look, the IS-F came in last. Again. The M3 came in first. Again. There, done, end of story, no selective anything. Just deal with it already and get over it, it's not the end of the world.


theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 3/14/2008 3:06:16 PM
+1 Boost
XeroK00L "Talk about selective data"
AHAHAHAHAHA

Selective data, you bring up the percentage of city fuel economy (which BMW beat in the real world) and one of the only performances stats the IS-F did better in.

ROTFLMA, let me catch my breath, man you should do stand up.


theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 3/14/2008 3:12:30 PM
0 Boost
XeroK00L, Yeah I would have believed that if you had brought up the 1/4 miles speed.



BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 3/14/2008 3:40:10 PM
0 Boost
Xero .. I know it is hard for you, but still your IS-F is 0 and 3 vs the M3. Gas mileage is your best justification for why the IS-F is better. Come on that is ridiculous. The M3 bested the IS-F on a track not once but twice recently by more than 1 1/2 seconds per lap. The M3 is has a much larger cabin presence for people that want to actually drive it on the streets with people in the car( even though you say it is more comfortable to drive everyday ). The M3 out handles the IS-F by a pretty wide margin. Acceleration in this test is a dead heat, 0 to 60 or 1/4 mile. Yes, the trap speed was higher in the lexus, but the times were the same. Gas mileage in the tests has averaged higher for the M3, than the Lexus.


Designer1Designer1 - 3/14/2008 3:21:46 PM
+1 Boost
Very good results for the IS-F as a first try. I'm sure that if the IS-F is tuned a bit it will sit on top, e.g. increase the revs to get more power, make the suspencion stiffer to help in corner limits.

But when looking at the last page or the results, its was interesting to see the M3 slowing down in higher speeds, and also how incredible the Lexus can manage better fuel consumption and low CO2 and still produce so much power.

So its a matter of balancing the equation, and at any day I would chose a Lexus over any of the two.

P.S. one comment made me laugh is the complain about the IS-F's interior, I assure you that if that aluminum was in either one of the Germen it would've been praised. I think the IS-F's interior is WAY nicer than the other two. One thing I do like about the C63's interior and that's the steering wheel, I think something like that will be a killer inside the beautiful IS-F interior.

In short, although the IS-F is put last, but there're are many aspects that are not covered, but the last page shows them. So, good job for Lexus for a first attempt.



enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 3/14/2008 4:22:26 PM
+1 Boost
good enough doesn't cut it among the world's best performance sedans. and if all lexus had to do was tweak a few things as you say...why didn't they?

and about this comment: "I assure you that if that aluminum was in either one of the Germen it would've been praised." it's not aluminum. it's some sort of PLASTIC made to look like aluminum. so cheesy.


Designer1Designer1 - 3/15/2008 10:21:45 AM
-1 Boost
That's called, product life cycle. Every product when comes to market it gets modified and improved in the upcoming versions. So yes, I'm sure Lexus engineers will take points into considerations and fix them, because I'm sure they don't want the IS-F tag name to fail since other models will follow after this.

As for the plastic looking aluminum material or what ever it is; my point is that it really looks nice and if it was in the BMW or MB it WOULD'VE been praised. Take for instance the similar looking material that's in the M3 dashboard, its ugly but was it mentioned? Of course not.



ThierryHenry14ThierryHenry14 - 3/14/2008 8:05:23 PM
+1 Boost
so do you actually drive a BMW?


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 3/16/2008 2:03:08 AM
+2 Boost
The RS4 was discontinued. All RS cars are sold for one year only, at least in the US.


carnutscarnuts - 3/14/2008 8:44:09 PM
+1 Boost
Xerokool is down to his last straw, "fuel mileage".

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And no Xero, the IS-F is not the best daily driver, READ THE ARTICLE.

"It's the most fun on a road course, yet is never rough-edged or jarring."

"The BMW is lithe and athletic yet never punishing, and it comes in a package you can use and enjoy every day."

Did I read that right the M3 is quote: "it comes in a package you can use and enjoy every day."

Let make sure you read that right Xero "EVERY DAY".

Xero get over it, the IS-F is the worst in the segment.




lyonboylyonboy - 3/14/2008 11:47:42 PM
+1 Boost
Let us not forget how ugly the IS-F is! The other cars look so much better.


JaybrnJaybrn - 3/15/2008 3:17:40 AM
+1 Boost
I cant wait to see DKG equipped M3 tests since these cars are expected to be even quicker but in the real world, an enthusiast will likely have fun with any one of these cars. Lexus makes a good case for a performance car even if it isnt the best but I still take the bimmer for the handling and road feel


SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 3/15/2008 5:19:42 AM
0 Boost
Last place again.

But hey forgive Lexus for not having the heritage the Germans have in building these type of cars. Even though they're all copies of the M3. But I don't care.




StickShiftCamryStickShiftCamry - 3/15/2008 1:01:35 PM
-3 Boost
not bad, lost cuz of subjective reasons. Acceleration and speed is same or better than M3.


carnutscarnuts - 3/15/2008 10:59:02 PM
+2 Boost
IS-F was 4.4 seconds slower in lap time.

It got WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!


theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 3/15/2008 5:21:22 PM
+3 Boost
"which we've already seen before when the IS350 beats the 335i."

When did this happen? What review? Did Lexus pay for it?



S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 3/16/2008 12:39:22 PM
+3 Boost
"The M3 wins the mpg because its the lightest and has the smallest engine (big surprise there)."

Are you trying to make an excuse for the M3 having the best engineering? YES, correct, BMW engineered their car the best, so it makes more power than the IS-F with an entire 1.0L less of engine, and it gets better mileage, and it's lighter!

"Lexus' seats are a reasonable compromise between the BMW's fat ass chairs, and the C63's racing setup."

Hm. As far as I've read, each M3 always has "perfect" sporting seats. If you want to see "fat ass chairs," check out the Lexus LX570 or LS460.

"Funny that it's BMW now that has to play the value card."

?

It performs better than the IS-F, and has a lower base price, but option them up and tell me which one is more expensive.

"When the IS-F retune does beat the M3, they'll call it a tie (which we've already seen before when the IS350 beats the 335i)."

The IS350 has never beaten the 335i. Not once.


stash84stash84 - 3/17/2008 5:27:30 PM
+1 Boost
i beat em all the time (0-60)


carnutscarnuts - 3/15/2008 10:57:51 PM
+4 Boost
Keep whining huu76, LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You look like ass trying to justify IS-F getting last.

This isn't the first comparo the M3 wooped up on the IS-F.

IS-F got beat by 4.4 sec. in lap time. WOOPED!!!!

4.4 SECONDS


StickShiftCamryStickShiftCamry - 3/16/2008 2:56:09 AM
-5 Boost
Spellchecker, some ppl here like anything thats hott, the real deal is on the street. I like M3 & IS-F, but u take it to a homo level w/ the M3. I have a BM my self. Why is the name Stickshiftcamry? I have one of the few V6 LE 5 Speed Manual Camry's w/ Leather and its umm faster than my 2yr old BM, hater.


abcdabcd - 3/16/2008 6:12:41 PM
0 Boost
0,6 sec - about so many C63 get ahead IS-F and if you look here:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sports/112_0805_bmw_m3_lexus_is_f_mercedes_c63_amg_comparison/photo_16.html
IS-F was majority of track distance before C63 , which take it on last straight (Weight to power ratio: M3-8.8 lb/hp ;IS-F-9.2 lb/hp ;C63-8.9 lb/hp). So I`m disappointed about AMG , a division with such racing experience(of course I think they use it to build this car) they have problems with novice F


vman1013vman1013 - 3/16/2008 10:51:50 AM
+4 Boost
I'm just surprised none of the usual Lexus Lovers have come to the IS-F's defense. Not even one "good job on your first try"! They've written the IS-F off like NY State Democrats wrote off Elliot Spitzer!


theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 3/17/2008 3:03:05 PM
+3 Boost
LOL


KoruKinshiKoruKinshi - 3/16/2008 1:02:08 PM
+5 Boost
Definitely looking forward to the C63. Looks extremely promising. As for the IS-F, why electronic power steering? Doesn't seem to be a good idea. Electronic brakes didn't work. I don't think Electronic steering assist was a good idea either.


carnutscarnuts - 3/17/2008 12:02:32 AM
+1 Boost
+1,000,000

Why the hell did they use electric steering? BIG MISTAKE.


stash84stash84 - 3/17/2008 5:28:24 PM
+1 Boost
reduce weight?



xj13xj13 - 3/16/2008 11:59:17 PM
+2 Boost
Great read here but the C63 is alot tougher in its look, whereas the M3 looks to honest and pure.
The is f just doesn't cut it anyway you look at it.


carnutscarnuts - 3/17/2008 2:33:34 AM
+2 Boost
4.4 seconds

That is not a tie, YOU MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get out of your bubble.

The IS-F got WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 3/17/2008 2:01:07 PM
+5 Boost
Huu76 ...

1. "Actually, the IS350 easily beats the 330i, and they even mention that the IS350 would do better if you could turn off all the electronics.
The 330i was even missing some basic gauges."

You base your whole arguement against the BMW 335 in one test from Edmunds. Actually if you look at the scoring you will see that the BMW had a 99% performace score vs IS350 87%. The 335 is faster, handles better, tighter feel, more direct steering, and a better buy plus the Maintenance. Also, the IS350 has lost in driving tests to a slower 330. Actually, has the IS350 ever beaten the 3-series in a comparison, except maybe 1 time in about 7 tries ... This instance BMW 7 vs Lexus 1.

2. "So, if you girls would take your heads out of your posteriors, you'd realize the M3 won by badge, and the C63's saving grace was that it was born in the right country."

What are you talking about? BMW wins by badge alone. Wasnt the BMW 4 seconds faster on the track than the Lexus? True. In another comparsion test on a track vs the M3, the lexus was slower by more the 1.5 seconds.

Numbers 0 to 100 ... Lexus 10 seconds vs BMW 10.1
Braking 60 to 0 ... Lexus 108 ft vs BMW 105 ft
1/4 mile ... Lexus 12.7 @ 113 vs BMW 12.7 @ 111
Skid pad ... Lexus .95g vs BMW .97g
figure 8 ... Lexus 25.1 seconds vs BMW 24.8 seconds
Price ... Lexus $62,945 vs BMW $ 63,420
Gas mileage ... Lexus 17.9 vs BMW 19.7
Race track ... Lexus 2 min 38.6 vs BMW 2 min 34.2sec

BMW wins 5 of 8 comparisons. Note in regards to performance this is without BMW's new DKG, which is available in June Production and will shave off .1 to .2 of a second in performance. On the Track, 4.4 seconds is ALOT. That is getting absolutely pounded. I figure that equates to at least a 7 to 10 car length lead by the M3.

Your Lexus, that you proclaimed as the M3 killer is actually turning out to be not in the same league as the M3. It is a good start by Lexus but they have a Long way to go to stay in this market.



theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 3/17/2008 3:09:01 PM
+2 Boost
said it was a 3-way tie as each car basically matched the others in various categories (try looking beyond page 4 and the at the actual test data).

QUIT MAKING CRAP UP! BMW FIRST M/B SECOND LEXUS THIRD

You don't get to make up your own result because your car lost! Motor Trend put them in that order, you can't rewrite the results.





carnutscarnuts - 3/17/2008 2:32:09 AM
+2 Boost
4.4 seconds

H-E-L-L-0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you deaf?


carnutscarnuts - 3/17/2008 2:36:55 AM
+2 Boost
Where is autopro, MichealTaylor, silver1, GoObama08?

None of those Lexus fanboys have posted.

They talked so smuch smack, it was comical.

Now they are no where to be seen.

W0000000000000000000000PED!!!!!!!!!!

IS-F is clocked cleaned in lap time 4.4 seconds by the M3.

Nice try. LOL


carnutscarnuts - 3/17/2008 3:41:40 AM
+2 Boost
Hey huu76,

4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec. 4.4 sec.

M3 4.4 seconds faster a lap than the IS-F

Get over it, YOU LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


PorschinatorPorschinator - 3/17/2008 3:01:10 PM
+2 Boost
so...what does "but loses sensitivity when you're really honking it" mean??? lol

Come on Fan boys..they are all great cars... Yes I prefer the M3 for the heritage more than because it can beat a IS-F.


supermotosupermoto - 3/17/2008 3:20:21 PM
+3 Boost
The outcome was obvious. No surprises at all.

But the real bargain is a chipped 335i. $20k less than an M3 and can still probably beat the competition.


stash84stash84 - 3/17/2008 5:43:10 PM
0 Boost
finally, someone with a brain.




theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 3/17/2008 5:46:43 PM
+1 Boost
"ace it, Lexus' first real attempt is just as good as BMW and MB's"

You think that, not Motor trend, that why they ranked them that way

The IS-F pulled 1/100th of a G through the figure eight, thats true, what you failed to mention, the Lexus was the slowest. There is no tie the Lexus was 3rd out of 3.

"100-0 braking, IS-F ties M3. Forget to mention that the M3's brakes perform worse after 60mph? Another tie, or chalk one up for the IS-F." PURE SPIN

60-0 BMW 105 feet Lexus 108
100-0 BMW 309 Lexus 309

Hey want not just say Lexus stop quicker from 60-100 than BMW, pure spin.

ONCE AGAIN MOTOR TREND SAID 1ST BMW 2ND M/B 3RD LEXUS

THERE WAS NO TIE AND DE NILE AIN'T JUST A RIVER IN EGYPT.






carnutscarnuts - 3/17/2008 6:57:23 PM
0 Boost
Where do you live?

If you in Socal, we can meet up and see who drives a better car.

Lexus SLUT!

Keep driving you slushy numb steering Lexus.


carnutscarnuts - 3/17/2008 6:55:30 PM
+1 Boost
huu76,
"IS-F lap time faster than C63. Must've missed that doing your BMW cheerleader dance."

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lap times

M3 - 154.2 sec.

C63 - 158.0 3.8 sec. back

IS-F - 158.6 4.4 sec. back

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sports/112_0805_bmw_m3_lexus_is_f_mercedes_c63_amg_comparison/photo_16.html

You Lexus IS-F got beat in lap time by the overweight pig C63.

So no, you IS-F did get the worst lap time.

By the way did I mention, the IS-F got its ass handed to it by the M3, 4.4 SECONDS!






carnutscarnuts - 3/18/2008 5:24:02 AM
0 Boost
LOL huu,

LOOK AT THE TECH SHEET.

huu76,
"IS-F lap time faster than C63. Must've missed that doing your BMW cheerleader dance."

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lap times

M3 - 154.2 sec.

C63 - 158.0 3.8 sec. back

IS-F - 158.6 4.4 sec. back

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sports/112_0805_bmw_m3_lexus_is_f_mercedes_c63_amg_comparison/photo_16.html

You Lexus IS-F got beat in lap time by the overweight pig C63.

So no, you IS-F did get the worst lap time.

By the way did I mention, the IS-F got its ass handed to it by the M3, 4.4 SECONDS!


You mean the JAP minute and their squity eyes, its hard for them to see the stopwatch.



carnutscarnuts - 3/18/2008 5:28:33 AM
0 Boost
Look at the TECH SHEET.

Don't get mad, BECAUSE YOU ARE WRONG.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sports/112_0805_bmw_m3_lexus_is_f_mercedes_c63_amg_comparison/photo_16.html




carnutscarnuts - 3/18/2008 5:29:44 AM
0 Boost
Learn how to cut and paste.

You think I am a kid, I am damn serious, lets meet up. Then we will see who is a kid.


carnutscarnuts - 3/18/2008 5:22:06 AM
+1 Boost
Hey sporto,

Read the actually tech sheet.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sports/112_0805_bmw_m3_lexus_is_f_mercedes_c63_amg_comparison/photo_16.html

Lap times

M3 - 154.2 sec.

C63 - 158.0 3.8 sec. back

IS-F - 158.6 4.4 sec. back



A F'n Jeep, POS.

You want me to show in my 545i or on my 600rr.

Did you finally get over the fact that the IS-F is ugly as hell and got its ass beat by the M3.


stash84stash84 - 3/23/2008 2:17:53 AM
+1 Boost
you ride a 600rr?? lmao..


carnutscarnuts - 3/18/2008 5:26:43 AM
0 Boost
The best NA 6-cylinder is in the E46 M3 and Z4 M/M coupe.

The POS IS350 engine doesn't come close.


carnutscarnuts - 3/18/2008 5:32:12 AM
0 Boost
Keep whining Huu, you Lexus loving POS.

Slushy Numb Dead steering POS cars.

Keep falling in reliabiliy ratings too Toyota, the biggest sell-oust in the industry.


carnutscarnuts - 3/19/2008 1:40:12 AM
0 Boost
Tech sheet bitch.

4.4 seconds

Woooooooooooooooped.

Don't cry because all you can afford is a POS Jeep, you litte baby.

Go change your diapers.

Tell me you email address.

I will send a pic of my car, with a sign on the hood that says FU*K YOU!


carnutscarnuts - 3/19/2008 1:42:27 AM
0 Boost
Better yet, I will write on a piece of paper and tape it to the hood.

FU*K YOU huu76!

Seriously whats you email.


carnutscarnuts - 3/20/2008 12:35:37 AM
+1 Boost
What don't you get about the tech sheet?

It clearly has the IS-F with the slowest time.

Why don't you understand that?


XYZZXYZZ - 3/20/2008 3:02:58 AM
+1 Boost
cutoffNuts:

"You mean the JAP minute and their squity eyes, its hard for them to see the stopwatch."

you ignorant, racist, fasshole.

japanese actually have MORE ACUTE and highly trained eyes than whites. in the pearl industry, they can distinguish far more different SHADES of whiteness. back in ww2 (and earlier) they had better night vision. ONLY the advent of radar neutralized that advantage.




RandyMRandyM - 3/20/2008 5:10:08 PM
+1 Boost
The RS4 is unfortunately left out of this comparo as Audi will cease production of this magnificent car this year. If it had been in the test it would have faired very well in every category that compares quality and real world performance. Any of these vehicles are the wrong tools for dedicated track work. Get yourself a Lotus Elise/Exige if all you care about is track performance and want a little toy to play with.

The RS4 is simply one of the best well rounded cars for driving in any sort of activity and/or weather you will find on the street. To deny that it is a marvel of engineering and one of the very best cars you can buy questions your intelligence to the rest of us who have good heads on our shoulders.


mplsmpls - 3/20/2008 8:33:49 PM
+3 Boost
carnuts..

are you mad ?

This is a cut and paste from the tech sheet:-
2 min, 34.2 sec 2 min, 38.6 sec 2 min, 39.0 sec


I don't know why you are still arguing with huu76 over this.. The C63 clearly came last..


TybeeZ4TybeeZ4 - 3/24/2008 1:13:12 PM
+1 Boost
The thing is, most of you will never own either much less drive them on the track. The M3 is a great car in the right hands, but for everyday driving, the C63 is clearly the best car and it will run like stink when required... just floor it and go, no buttons to push, just the right pedal. BMW does what it usually does and over techs the car when most folks just don't use the stuff, at least the ones who can afford 60 large. I drive a Cayman S and while it isn't the fastest in a straight line, I'll run with them on the track and best most. Where the M beats the C is in weight and weight is a killer on the track. So, for most, the C63 would be the better car, perhaps not the best enthusiast car, but one that you can drive every day and be first away at the light without any effort or thought.
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