What Is Your Defintion Of A Luxury Brand And Who Should Not Be Considered One?

BMW should not be considered a luxury brand. Luxury is about comfort, refinement, elegance and quality. BMW are about 'sport' which is not the same thing. I would give them credit for being the best at what they are, but they are not luxury.

Every car journalist in the world says you wrong MadibaP .

madipa, aside from the fact that BMWs have plenty of everything you just said, the criteria you laid out are what luxury means to YOU, not everyone. That's the point of this thread, I believe. Not everyone will give each part of the luxury equation the same weight. Besides, there are about 1.5 million people a year who think BMW's "version" of luxury is good enough to buy one over all the other luxury brands, making them the worlds #1 premium car maker. Either they're doing something right, or people are just buying the "brand image". If that's the case, that right there is the very definition of prestige and desirability, the halos of a luxury marque.

The bench mark of Luxury would in fact be the BMW owned brand Rolls Royce. I think currently they out shine Bentley on pure Luxury. One could argue a case for Maybach as well.

In comparison to the bench mark, no BMW do not do well at any level. The ride, the level of silence, the interior quality and even the ultimate comfort of the seats are not comparable to the benchmark.

However no not every Journalist disagrees with me. They all would take a BMW but the rate the brand for its driver appeal, not for its outright luxury.

Prestige, if you like the look of a bangle design, then yes. Appeal, then yes. But As a contender for outright LUXURY, no...

Well said, JRobUSC.

MadibaP Obviously you have never driven anything the a 7 on it.

"Being great sport car, does not automatically makes it ineligible for luxury status."

True. In my mind however, having a flagship model with a dash made of a huge hunk of plastic, does.

"The ride, the level of silence, the interior quality and even the ultimate comfort of the seats are not comparable to the benchmark."

madiba, what benchmark are you referring to? The Rolls Royce and Maybach you just mentioned? Well then fine, I agree with you, a BMW doesn't compare with those. It's an absolutely retarded comparison to make in the first place, but I'll give it to you.

My reply to you is, "then why do all the other luxury marquee's seem to aspire to BMW's sportiness combined with luxury?" Why does the 3 series define the segment in it's field? Why do the other's make sport models? Why the Lexus IS-F? Seems to me that BMW defines more than just Sport it seems to define Luxury too.

MadibaP - EXACTLY

I agree with vladyxa and consider BMW a luxury brand because it is more comfortable and powerful than the run of the mill stuff out there. The key is comfort and power, not how it handles on the track. Fit and finish also defines a luxury car. Having said that, I note that many luxury features have trickled down to lesser cars; however, I would not put the Buick Enclave in the luxury category because that vehicle has no seat height adjustment on the front passenger side and I bang my head on the roof every time I try to get in or out of that seat.

Hyundai used to be a piece of crap when it was first introduced to the U.S. and Dan Rather did a segment on it on 60 minutes in a discussion that talked about Hyundai bumbers falling off during a slight impact. This is no longer thae case and I consider the Hyundai Genesis a true luxury car (and a bargain at that).

997JET

BMW does not 'excel' in luxury, it COMPROMISES in luxury so that it CAN excel in sport and comfort in comparison most certainly IS lacking! It does not ride as well, its seats are cheap and the ride is neither smooth nor quiet and you are not surrounded by quality, sophistication and class!

BMW spend their budget making it GO and HANDEL well, NOT cosset the passengers in luxury.

Sorry and all that...

bmwman1963

Because the market prefers sport to luxury and every manufacturer is trying to catch up to BMW's sportiness, does not mean that therefor BMW are the example of what 'luxury' is, or that they in fact fill that roll at all! Yes BMW are better than the corollas of this world, 'luxury' wise, but terribly sorry no, they are not a luxury car manufacturer!

Let's analyse your criteria MadibaP: comfort, refinement, elegence and quality. Lexus would meet all four,... and so would all the other mid-size to large Toyota models including the Camry (yes it is elegent, that's why it's the best selling sedan in the US). MB wouldn't make the cut because they have been having quality/reliability issues lately. The MB AMG models would definitely not make the cut because they are "sport" oriented. Hyundai would make the cut, have you driven a Sonata lately? You do realize you just made the whole thing one big indefinable complicated mess with no possibility of a resolution. If you were using a data filter you would probably get tonnes of meaningless and unexpected results.

after 37 years in the automobile industry, My 'understanding' of luxury manufacturers is broken out this way:

1960's

Lincoln-Mercury
Cadillac

1970's

L-M, Caddy, M Benz, BMW (Bavaria), Jaguar, R Royce

1980's

L-M' Caddy, M-Benz, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, BMW, Jaguar, R Royce,

1990's

all the above repeated

2000's

Every car make in the world thinks they make some form of "luxury" vehicle

2010's

???????????????????????????????????

Bonzai !!!

hey Dr., despite the deboosts, you have a great analysis there!

for the decades since the '80s, your are spot on. i like the part: EVERYONE now has a 'luxury model.' i'd also point out, this started WAY BACK in the 1960s when even chevy and ford had their blinged up models: the Caprice and LTD. chevy even started to emulate cadillace with caddy "styling cues" even as far back as the mid- and late-1950s!

just one correction: rolls royce was in the lux biz at least ther 1/2 century earlier than on your list.

"Luxury is about comfort, refinement, elegance and quality"

Are you saying that no BMW fills the characteristics that you mentioned above? I'll have to disagree with that. Maybe the 3 Series doesn't fit the "comfort" bill as much as the other BMW's and its competitors out there, but it sure does fit the "refinement, elegance and quality" bills, as well as BMW's other models (5,6,7 Series, X3,X5)

Yes I am saying that BMW falls down on ALL of these points in comparison to the rivals. The Interior and ride quality are prime points of weakness in this regard. I have always been amazed at the lack of smoothness of the 7 series ride... they just don't get it!

Madiba (or whatever), again, you're projecting YOUR desires in a luxury car onto everyone else. Not everyone wants that "rolling couch in a cocoon" drive out of their luxury cars. If they did everyone would buy a Lexus, and BMW/MB/Audi would do nothing but build clones of the ES and LS. Yet they don't, because what they're doing is successful. Different strokes for different folks.

JRobUSC

The article asks people to submit their opinions! This is my opinion, ok? If your opinion is that luxury is about having cheap seats, a plastic dash, a harsh and noisy ride (for the class) in one of the ugliest cars in the world, (my opinion) just because its fast around corners and everyone else likes it, then go ahead pal, knock yourself out!

a plastic dash???? im confused as to what car doesnt have a plastic dash that your referring to you must be comparing BMW to the ultra luxury cars, because everything Acura to Mercedes Benz cars have plastic dashes.....

As far as flagships go:

The S-Class has a stitched leather dash as standard.

The XJ (in fact ALL Jaguars sold in the United States) has a stitched leather dash standard.

The A8 has a stitched leather dash as an option.

Last I looked at one, the 7 didn't even offer it as an option, not even on the 760Li- check on the BMW website if you don't believe me.

@cdoke

Have you ever heard of "BMW Individual" ?
Excluding the 3 series, for all other BMW models, one could order a BMW just like in his/her dreams.

Yes, I have- and it is a joke when I have to pay extra for what should be standard for a 80K car, much less a 120K car.

3 Levels of cars in my opinion (the order has no bearing on where I rank them either)

Exotic:
-------
Maseratti
Ferrari
Lamborghini
Porsche
Aston Martin

Luxury:
-------
Infiniti
Lexus
Audi
BMW
Mercedes
Cadillac
Land Rover

Entry Level Luxury (semi-luxury, whatever you call it)
------------------------------------------------------
Acura
Saab
VW (purely cause their pricing puts them in this area, but they compete against the lower market)
Lincoln
Mercury (even though Lincoln is supposed to be luxo, it's not given their current lineup)

Consumer Sement:
----------------
Toyota
Honda
Pontiac
Nissan
GMC
Saturn
Chevy
Hummer
Mazda
Hyundai
Scion
Ford
Hyundai

Economy
-------
Suzuki
Kia
Isuzu

I meant 4, sorry.

That seems like a reasonable list. +1, although I think that the consumer section can be further segmented.

I think you have to consider Jaguar in the Luxury group as well. As for Audi I would think that the A4 would be as is the 3 series and the C class "near luxury". The A6 and above would be luxury,ditto the 5 series BMW and Mercedes E class and above.Everything above the Lexus IS is luxury as well as anything above the Infiniti G35 luxury.Cadillac is Luxury as well.So is Volvo S60 and above. The Citroen C6 is pure luxury. I'm not certain about Lincoln these days nor Honda or Acura as being pure luxury cars.Hyundai I would not consider a Luxury car(Azera) or the Kia Amati.The Chrysler 300 is not a Luxury car. I don't rate Saab as a luxury car either.The soon to be discontinued Lancia Thesis is a Luxury car. The Maserati quattroporte is a luxury car as well as a sport sedan like BMW.I would not consider the new up coming POrsche Panamera a luxury car but the new Aston Martin Rapid I would consider a luxury as well as a sporting car.The Buick Lucerne just makes it as a luxury car to me.Other then the now discontinued in American Phaeton I don't consider any other VW a luxury car.I think I've covered most bases if not all.

WHERE IS VOLVO???????????????/

I personally think Volvo sits bottom in the LUXURY section..... They have very nice line-up, though lacking behind the competitors.

good list except I think Acura and Infiniti should be in the same category. They both lack a V8 full size sedan to flagship the brands. I think Volvo should be in the entry-level luxury/luxury segment. They are very understated.

Where does RR & Maybach fit in? They definately should not be grouped with BMW & Merc.

I am not a Lexus fan and Audi's are ok but the fact that you dont consider them equal to BMW and MB is just strange to me. However I do realize that the question is about personal perception so from that aspect I do understand.

NItePhire - its called a bias

Porsche should be up there with Ferrari and Lamborghini. Porsche is a supercar maker whether you folks agree or not. Just because 911's looks are sedated compared to a flamboyant F430 or a Gallardo doesn't mean it's not an exotic hyper car. Just because the cheapest 911 is priced the way it is doesn't mean it's less of a sports car than the Italian makers.

I think it should be this:

Tier 0 - Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Porsche, etc.

Tier 1 - MB, BMW, Audi

Tier 2 - Lexus, Cadillac

Tier 3 - Infiniti, Acura

Tier 4 - Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, Mitsubishi, Subaru

Tier 5 - Suzuki, Kia

In Germany the BMW is NOT considered a LUXURY brand. The German police use a mix of 3,5 series BMW's C AND E class MB cars. FYI a few BMW's and lot's of MB's E class vehicles are also used as TAXI'S.

A shot of reality into peoples' minds. Luxury has a lot to do about perception.

he was deboosted for stating the truth lol

^^ Right, because any negative comments towards German cars here on Autospies, even if they're true, are deboosted. This double standard has been the case here since day 1.

Yes, but in NYC, merc S-klasse are also used for "taxi" albeit corporate taxis, but nevertheless, taxis. Does that mean that the merc S-klasse is not luxurious because it is a taxi?

I believe in Italy, the gallardo is used as a police car. Does that take away from that? or likewise a 911 as a police car in Germany. Does that mean that they are degraded?

Please consider those points carefully...

I can't seem to understand whats so bad about a certain car being in many commercial fleets.

In Germany BMW IS considered as a luxury brand!

On top of that: The way people look at this is:
A car beeing used by the police, as taxi or for any other purpose where reliability is a must, is the best promotion you can get.

(... you don´t see any japanese cars over there for this reason ... just as a side mark)

Luxury to me is something that is exclusive, something that puts you out of the crowd and making you feel good. Comfort, Precision, Exclusivity, Special.

I agree mostly however you left out a few. Exotic should include Bentley and R. Royce. Entry level or as I call them premium cars should include Volvo and maybe even Mini. You are right Lincoln hasn't been a luxury car maker in a while and as much as I want them to make it I just do view them as luxury anymore. Pretty much everything now is a Ford with a fat grill and chrome. Not even engine differences. Mercury along with Chrysler may have been 30 years ago.Isuzu has been just dead for about 15 years now. They just realized it for themselves recently

Luxury and entry level luxury is easy to confuse these days.
Basically the difference is luxury is a brand that doesnt offer downmarket models. and entry level does that and offers premium models at a reduced price. pretty much when i comes to some toyota vs lexus vehicles, ur paying a premium more for the badge.
And u guys with ur retarded tier systems, i believe the auto industry is too complex to put automakers in only one category. BMW has some models that are sport, and some that are luxury (7 series).

These people who are saying BMW's aren't luxurious cars are either crazy or have never driven one.

My 335i coupe is extremely comfortable and extremely sporty.

You obviously don't understand why BMW is so great at what they do. They blend luxury and sport better than anybody else in my opinion.

If you want more luxury, skip the sport package, add wood and an automatic gearbox and you're set. If you want more sport, do the opposite.

Hardcore Sport/Luxury.....it's called an "M" car.

The BMW M6 is one of the best GT cars on the market--in other words, one of the best combinations of performance and luxury. If you don't need the extra seats, there's the R8, but that's not really a GT.

Websites often post up these <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<controversial>>>>>>>>>>> matters to boost up visitor count, makes readers register to express their opinions...................................




Arguing here doesn't make any difference,people!!!!!!!!

It's AUTOSPIES website who gets the last laugh.....

YOU? - are asking a question about divisiveness when you deliberately chose the name you did....now that is funny.

Just change your name to retard and leave it at that.

The definition of luxury is very subjective and will vary from person to person. Lexus, BMW, Caddy, MB, Audi, Porsche, Infiniti are all luxury in my opinion. They all offer you a driving experience not obtainable through any of the entry level brands. Now there are some models in the entry level brands that come close (Camry XLE/Lexus ES or Caddy Escalade/GMC Yukon Denali) to their luxury brand counterparts and can be debated upon all day which I won't get into. But the brands I mentioned are my own personal definition of luxury and I'm sure many others.

My idea of a luxury car is a car built with expensive materials, upscale technology, a big engine that gives a lot of power, and a good reputation.

Hyundai should not be considered a luxury car.

Like Hyundai's current advertising program:

DUH

Hyundai simply isn't a luxury brand. They advertise by telling people that they are but even the dumbest of all idiots would tell you that Hyundai doesn't have everything a luxury car should have.

Asking what comprises "luxury" is like asking what makes a girl attractive.

You know what it is to you personally when you see it for yourself.

"Nice rack"? Come on man! This is a car forum.

Please call them "headlights".

If you guys insist on defining attractiveness in a girl, I'll volunteer the comment that it comes down to sweetness, symmetry, and curves and the intangible stuff that turns you on.

BMW would be a luxury brand, they make cars that generally go beyond satisfying your basic need for transportation. They do have some unnecessary touches, high quality materials etc, which means they are more expensive to make and to buy than similar cars. But some of the models do not really meet that benchmark, the 1 series and base model 3s and x3s

Then why does the A8 outsell it worldwide?

And why does the A8 beat it in every single comparison test the two have been involved in?

Just give it up already amazingbimmer. Your getting very pathetic already.

The worst aspect of this comment is that the Pheaton so comprehensively beats the 7 series. In just about every way one could judge a luxury car the pheaton exceeds the 7. In fact the current 7 has to be one of the worst abortion of a luxury car of all time. It was launched to an avalanche of critisism for being so unbelievably ugly and its abilities and appeal remain as retarded today as ever.

I am a BMW guru but I honestly love the A8 but then again the 7 is older than its competitors. Still I find a 7 series very luxurious. compare its creature comforts to caddy lincoln etc. not bashing domestics but the 7 is in fact a luxury car. different drivers have their own opinions of luxury otherwise all cars would be the same. the luxury is in the eye of the beholder.... to a certain extent.

That's a way to judge a luxury car?

So you're telling me the Mercedes C-Class is a way better luxury car than the S-Class because it sells more?

ERIC113, HAVE YOU EVER BEEN ABLE TO GET YOUR AUDI SERVICED AT A VW DEALERSHIP?

AUDI WILL "NOT" AND VW WILL "NOT" SERVICE THE OTHER.

WHEN I OWNED A LEXUS, TOYOTA WAS "AUTHORIZED" TO SERVICE THE PIECE OF CRAP THAT IT WAS..

AUDI MAY BE OWNED BY VW, BUT IT IS IN THE RANKS OF BMW AND MB.

COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES!

THE FINAL WORD PEOPLE (does not include exotic brands):

Tier 1 - MB, BMW, Lexus

Tier 2 - Infiniti, Audi, Cadillac, Land Rover, Jaguar

Premium - Non-Luxury - Volvo, Saab, Lincoln, Acura

There conversation over.

I would not put Lexus in tier 1, maybe Audi, but not Lexus. Lexus cars are just Toyota's with better makeup.

to BMWMAN(above this post)/// lexus is just a toyota?

How about "Audi is just a Volkswagen?"

And BMW's are just bigger Mini's.

very well put

I meant good point thescooter

To me, luxury at its most fundamental is about materials and materials execution. By the latter I mean not only the quality of the placement of the materials together, but also the way in which that is done- such as hand-made or custom objects.

I am the kind of person who will pay a massive premium for things that are hand-made or custom- such as with my Karges furniture. Also, all of my dress shirts are entirely bespoke. This sort of thing runs in my family, my grandparents have many bespoke paintings and bronzes.

There is a bit of a caveat and that is related to the actual type of execution. Luxury to me means elegance, which out of necessity is something that is beautiful. That which is beautiful is simple. I am not making that up and it isn't really my subjective opinion. Studies on human faces show very well that the most simplistic the person's face the more beautiful they are. That is why the the DB9 is so beautiful- it is a really simple automobile in terms of its design. So the luxury object must also be inherently simple in its execution to me.

Here's the way I see them:

Level 1: BMW and M-B. These two have the heritage, engineering, technology, and image that all their competitors covet. They are at the top of the luxury chain.

Level 2: Audi and lexus. These two are nipping at the big boys' heels, but they aren't there yet. On paper they have what it takes, but the execution of their cars is what keeps them from being world class. Also, they don't have the prestige and image-factor to put them on top.

Level 3: Acura, Cadillac, Infiniti, Volvo, Lincoln. These guys all make great cars, but everything from sales to quality to refinement to fit & finish to the all important prestige factor will have to be addressed before they can shoulder in next to the big boys.

"These two have the heritage, engineering, technology..."

You know Audi has all of that, right?

"i like many current audis, but their heritage consists of alot of fwd vw derived models."

Are you joking?

You know that VW didn't "invent" Audi right? Audi was there before VW was even an idea. They have more history than BMW and more heritage than VW could ever hope to achieve. They have the combined pasts of the famous Horch marque, Audi, DKW and Wanderer. The Silver Arrow was one of the most successful racing cars of all time.

In fact, Mercedes-Benz is the only luxury brand that was there before Audi. Fact.

So a Honda Civic/ Toyota Corolla are luxury?

no if its standard with leather


DUH!!

in germany, BMW, MB and audi can be ordered in cloth.

Used to think leather defines luxury too, until I got into a Mazda3 with all leather interior, imagine my disappointment.

very subjective. guess it depends on your definition of luxury. if your riding around in a pickup all day a towncar can feel pretty damn luxurious. likewise iy your daily ride is a bently or a benz(S class -the real ones not the after thought market share grabbers) then a 3series or A4 is gonna feel pretty shody.

I agree that luxury is about comfort, refinement, elegance, quality and less about sport. I would also add technology.

Here are my tiers:

Tier 1: MB, BMW, Lexus
Tier 2: Acura, Audi, Infiniti, Caddy, Lincoln
Tier 3, Volvo and SAAB

...Almost totally agree with you but I would swap Audi and Lexus positions on your list...

Wrong Dude! Audi is TIER 1 in every market. Price points, heritage, sports, execution, models, competition head to head make it TIER 1. Lexus is a tier 2 or 3 globally. Those are the facts.

audi = overrated brand cobbled together from 4 sickly dying car companies.

yeah, they made a FEW decent race cars before ww2, with SUBSIDIES from hitler. as mentioned above, they then made nothing interesting until the awd models.

and the audi/vw group is near THE BOTTOM in reliability, with only MB below them. (even hyundai has better reliability these days.)

note: RELIABILITY and UTTER DEPENDABILITY is A BASIC REQUIREMENT of a luxury car. what good is a fancy leather couch in a car that mite leave you stranded somewhere?
what good is a whole array of fancy electronic gizmos, when you always gotta deal with faulty operation of same?

reliability does not by itself MAKE a luxury car. (otherwise all hondas and toyotas would be so defined.) but no car can be a TRUE luxury car if it LACKS total reliability, 24/7. in ALL components.

no one would question that RollsRoyce was the very PINNACLE of luxury motoring for close to a century.

it DID NOT have "sporty" handling. it DID NOT always have state-of-the-art engines. (relying on gm pushrod v8s for many years.)

it DID have utter reliability. along with quality craftsmanship. quality materials. and a high build quality. (which also translates to high reliability.)

Parmo hit the nail on the head with his tier rankings!

Top level:
Rolls Royce, Maybach, Buggati, Ferrari & Lamborghini (kind-of), Bentley

Premium:
Land Rover, Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, BMW, Lexus, Volvo (XC90 & S80 only)

Entry-level luxury:
BMW (1,3), Mercedes-Benz (C,CLC), Audi (A4, A3), Saab, Volvo, Jaguar

Under entry-level luxury:
Honda (Accord Euro & CR-V Luxury), Mini Cooper

(please note I cannot rate Infiniti & Cadillac as at the moment they do not import to my country)

a LOT of countries will say "no thanks."

Aren't you forgetting one "top level" marque - Aston Martin?

What, dude? Do you really think that a slightly lower price point is a factor in the $80K+ luxury car market? It outsells the 7 series (and S-class) for one reason: It's a better car. Nobody has ever, ever bought an A8 instead of a 7 series or S-class primarily because it costs a little less. "Cheaper" and "A better value" are two very different concepts. A8 costs more to build than a 7 series, so cheaper certainly doesn't apply.

"FWD is a running joke in the industry"

Again, what, dude? Are you an insider in this industry you speak of? I agree that RWD is superior to FWD or AWD (sometimes) in terms of handling, but it's only appreciable at the limits of the car, which is something a tiny percentage of owners will ever experience, either intentionally or unintentionally. You constantly extoll the virtues of RWD and bash Audi for having the audacity to even build a car that's not RWD. What good is a feature that 99% of buyers will never take advantage of? Beyond that, the average driver has no idea how to handle a RWD car when things get a hectic. The vast majority of people will never drive a RWD vehicle hard enough to appreciate the true advangate of that drive configuration over FWD or AWD. Also, what abouthe millions of buyers who live in a climate that makes a RWD vehicle a poor and unsafe choice? Why do you think BMW offers AWD in almost every model?

Your blind BMW fanboy comments are predictably ignorant and consistently soft.

1995e34
That is the single most stupid comment ever to appear on a car forum! When SAAB and Volvo were Swedish owned they only made front wheel drive cars because of the snow in Sweden. Front wheel drive is indescribable superior to rear wheel drive when it comes to snow!

Luxury depends on the perspective. My Audi A4 is considered a Luxury car in many places, but in Greenwich, where I work, its barely an entry level car that parents buy their college kids.

Likewise with some every other "Luxury" makes that others have mentioned. I know it goes a little off topic, but in an area saturated with Bentleys and RRs, those becomes common and a nice custom Yacht becomes luxury. Its all about perspective, and as some others have mentioned, exclusivity.

cadillac and lincoln

just kidding...!

german: mercedes-benz, bmw, audi, porsche

english: 'rolls-royce', 'bentley', atson martin, jaguar, land rover

italian: ferrari, lamborghini, maserati

french: bugatti

american: cadillac, lincoln

japanese: lexus, infiniti, acura

when you pair in accord home countries the similarities and differences stand out.

i choose german!

bugatti is german - VW buy this name

sorry, youre right, i shoulvd put ' ' around it.

'saab' and 'volvo' fit in there somehow, i just dont know. wouldnt consider them full blown lux vehicles, but they do strive to serve the market.

LUXURY = MORE $$

for US only (in order of prestige)

Tier 0 - all exotics and uber luxury makers Rolls Royce (BMW) Maybach (MB),

Tier 1 - Mercedes, BMW, Lexus and believe it or not Jaguar (mostly "old" money drives Jaguar in the states).

Tier 2 - Audi, Cadillac, Infiniti, Volvo, Acura, Saab, Lincoln.

Now in Europe, Audi is a tier 1 vehicle along with Lexus being tier 2 or 3.

This excludes Lincoln, Infiniti, and Acura in Europe. Not enough presence to be counted.

i agree with this mostly but i would take Audi, and Cadillac out of that mix of cars...i think they have more prestige here than the rest of those makes, as evidenced by the price points of their range vs BMW and Mercedes

for some reason when i think rolls-royce i think bmw, but still consider it a rolls-royce in its own right. when i think maybach, all i think is mercedes, nothing else - i just consider it to be another model of mercedes-benz. bentley i am split. older models, definately the bentley aura. new models, i think vw. bugatti - everyone's confused about that one - french, italian, german, etc... though, i know vw owns the co, vw is not the first thing that comes to mind - guess that means they did a good job.

luxury brand = exclusive, internationally respected, unique products (i.e. not based on non-luxury products)

Premium Niche.
Bugatti, McLaren, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Rolls-Royce,Bentley,Maybach,Aston Martin, Maserati,Land rover,Porsche,

Premium Rich.
MB,BMW,LEXUS

2nd.
Audi,Infiniti,

3rd.
Acura,CadillacLincoln,Volvo

Audi is tier 1. What is this crap about it as Tier 2? For supposedly educated Automotive enthusiasts that know and respect cars, callling Audi tier 2 is an ignorant comment considering Audi's global standing and model line-up, not to mention motor sport history and prestige. Stop with the tier 2 BS. It's ignorant.

Have you guys ever compared the quality of an Audi interior to a Lexus at the same price point?? Get for real guys!!!!

Audi is MUCH BETTER and should be ranked higher than Lexus! Close the doors on an Audi or any German make for that matter and tell me the solid sounding "thunk" it gives off compared to any Asian brand "so called luxury" vehicles doesn't speak volumes.

Most Asian brands cut corners on materials everywhere you look. Check out the quality of the leather, plastics, wood grain, carpet of any asian luxury marquee compared to a german marquee.

Facts vs. Facts

i mentioned above that no TRUE luxury car can be one, if it lacks impeccable reliability.

when you can get extraordinary levels of reliability in even low level toyotas and hondas, and even HYUNDAIS, it is INEXCUSABLE for any so-called luxury model to NOT have equivalent reliability.

vw-audi is rated the WORST major manufacturer. on average, FOUR year old vws and audis have MORE PROBLEMS than 10 yr old hondas and toyotas.

yes, IT IS POSSIBLE to save thousands buying a toyota rather than a lexus. just as you can save thousands buying a vw 'stead of an audi.

the difference is however, EVEN WITH BASIC toyotas, you get lexus level reliability. even with basic toyotas, you get reliability superiour to Benzes. the ONLY sacrifice, is in prestige. THAT is what one pays for, getting a Lexus instead of a Toyota.

one can also get 'near Audi' reliability buying a vw. and one gets 'near vw' reliability buying an audi instead a vw!

Funny thing XYZZ is I owned one Audi for almost 6 years and not once did I ever have a problem with it. One set of new tires and oil changes, that's it.

The lexus I owned was riddled with electronic and transmission problems. It was so problematic that I kept it only one year.

Oh, and get your facts straight, Audi is not rated the worst car company. Better check out MB's ratings.

Luxury: 1)Expensive high-quality surroundings, and the great comfort that they provide. 2)An item that is desirable but not essential, and often expensive or hard to get. 3)

Luxury: 1)expensive high-quality surroundings, and the great comfort that they provide. 2)an item that is desirable but not essential, and often expensive or hard to get. 3)an activity that gives great pleasure, especially one only rarely indulged in.

Well to me this would qualify:
Bentley, Rolls-Royce, and Maybach as the only true & prestigue luxury vehicles.

More real world luxury vehicles would definitely be Mercedes-Benz, BMW, & Audi

Easy to get luxury "not real luxury vehicles" would be Lexus (Did I mention its a glorified Toyota), Infiniti, Acura, Volvo, Lincoln, & Cadillac

RIGHT ON Tonee! Lexus = "Glorified Toyota"!!!!!

I've owned 4 BMW's, 1 Acura, 1 Lexus, 1 MB and 1 Audi and I can honestly say that an Acura = Honda, and Lexus = Toyota!

MB has big reliability issues but for the most part the German makes I've owned put the Asian ones to shame!

The Acura and Lexus had some of the cheapest quality materials when compared to the German makes at the same price points.

Ever take a Lexus in for an oil change? They screw you over big time $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Lexus is so overrated! It is like driving a boat on wheels!

To clarify all this confusion and disagreement, Luxury means Lexus. End of discussion. ;-)

If so does that also means Xerox=Originality ?

Gee whiz, I guess I can buy a toyota camry instead of a lexus es350 now and call it LUXURY.

End of Story!

Nice article, 009. What happens when you add age into the equation? How would a 10 year old "luxury" car compare to a newer "consumer" car? Should the definition of "luxury" include an age limit of say 3 years max?

Well.... True luxury never goes out of style. its like buying a louis vuitton hand bag. no matter how old it is, its still a louis vuitton bag, its an instant classic and will never go out of style. The same can be said for the higher end mercedes, rolls, bentley (except the gt).

Lexus is by no means tier 4 in the US. They have been very well accepted by "old" money, their demographic speaks for themselves, mostly old people, which is actually a good thing when it comes to prestige and class. Older people invest in cars whereas younger people buy what's "cool". remember when the vw beetle came out, and the mustang. 55year old demographic was never in that category.

I vote this dumbest list ever! Cadillac tier one Rolls tier two. Ahahahahaha.

"Rolls Royce and Bentley might have focused more on building only luxury cars"

The title of the blog is: "What Is Your Defintion Of A Luxury Brand And Who Should Not Be Considered One?"

"Cadillac has in the first 30 years of the 20th century been a very innovative force in the US."

In what, re badging Tahoes.

Hey I'm an American two, but Cadillac as a tier one over BMW is a joke. Cadillac is far from an innovative company, I need examples to convert me. Everybody wants to be BMW even Cadillac.

Spellchecker001
My oath I have heard that Americans can be naive and ignorant but this post takes the cake!

Cadillac? This is a brand that is a trumped up CHEV! And you call Lexus 'a gussied up Toyota'! At least Toyota's are good! Cadillac are APPALLING! Name one market outside flag waving USA that will even LOOK at Cadillac! Its JUNK!

Than you say "Rolls Royce and Bentley might have focused more on building only luxury cars"

HELLO! CAN YOU HEAR YOURSELF!

The two most iconic luxury brands the world has ever known because of their single minded dedication to that one thing: LUXURY.

Lexus have achieved a higher level of quality than any other mass manufacturer in the history of motor car manufacturing. I would say that this is a significant achievement and gives them a rightful and well earned place at the top of the pile! Especially when a company like Merc have dropped their standards considerably over the last 25 years and are scrambling to catch up to Lexus. Further more Lexus is not 'on par technology wise' they are ahead in many areas.

You most certainly ARE NOT giving credit where credit is due and you do no service to your country by owning yourself up to being an American.

PS Bentley have won Le Mans, several times. What have GM done?

Spellchecker, I totally agree with you about lexus. but we will never see lexus be anything other than tier one in the states. you have to include the states b/c it is one of the biggest markets, if not the biggest market in the world and we both live here, so counting other countries is irrelevant to what we see everyday.

I own a BMW, but i would consider myself a mercedes fan. Cadillac is no where tier 1. They don't have a flagship car in the same class as even the ls460 not including the ls460l or ls600hl. I'm also giving credit where it is due and cadillac does not get the credit as being tier 1. maybe in the 60's but not today. the only competitor they have is the cts and the upcoming cts-v and they compare the 3 series and m5. they can't compete any other way.

.......... and since when did motorsports and luxury become one in the same. Motorsport heritage goes to the likes of ferrari, porsche, mercedes, etc....

German's will develop the new technology and the Asian's will copy and cheapen it every time.

Tier 1: Bentley, Rolls Royce, Maserati, Aston Martin

Tier 2: Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Audi, and to some extent Jaguar

Tier 3: Acura(the originator of the Japanese luxury car) Infiniti and Lexus

Tier 4: Lincoln, Caddy, Volvo, Saab

No matter what Honda did to brand acura before infiniti and lexus, they are by no means the originator of ANY luxury car in japan. Toyota and nissan had luxury cars way before honda, they were all just branded toyota's and nissan's before lexus and infiniti existed. Remember the Toyota Crown, and never forget that car.

Oh and BTW, acura and lexus are never in the same tier. You can argumentatively suggest that infiniti can be as prestigous as lexus, but NEVER acura, they're a joke when it comes to luxury and exclusivity.

Good list, but determing the only flaw with your list is the actual price points. Mercedes-Benz, Audi, and BMW make vehicles priced at or above Maserati. Therefore, I would slide Maserati down to the same level as Audi, BMW, and MB.

This is a really stupid article.

All I keep thinking to myself as I run down the posts is "Who are these imbeciles?"

S4cabriofoxone

I regret I can only boost you once.

LOL!

You are right. This article is pointless, unless you wish to read the fanboys trading insults with each other.

And one more thing - the fact that I still like BMWs after being exposed to amazinbimmer's harangues is testament to the excellence of that marque!

luxury defined: something that is an indulgence rather than a necessity, laviness, the quality possessed by something that is excessively expensive)just to add to Tonee's input. But necessities change over time (eg A/C used to be optional on most cars, are now essential). What is essential/basic also differs from person to person, even by geography. Luxury also has degrees. Hence the terms "near'luxury", "entry-level luxury segment", "ultra-luxury" etc. What we generally agree on are the ultra-luxury brands. The ridiculously & excessively lavish brands.. Rolls Royce, Bentley and others.

The ES350 would be a luxury car because it's unnecessarily more expensive than a Camry XLE V6, which I personally consider to be the same car. An Acura TSX would be a luxury car BECAUSE it's an unnecessarily more expensive Accord. What people think is the reason these should NOT be considered luxury cars is the very reason why THEY ARE, by definition.

A MB C-class is an entry level luxury car; it's unnecessarily more expensive than other sedans of the same size... How in Europe do car manufacturers justify a hefty sticker price on a "luxury" car with cloth seats? In the end luxury means different things to different people.

why is this thread here? its completely pointless

Well Being that Acura was out in 1986 and Lexus and Infiniti where out in 1989 (thats means Honda was 3 years ahead of Toyota and Nissan) your point is pointless.
The Japanese luxury on AMERICAN shores (which is what we are talking about) was created originated by Honda in the form of the Acura Legend

the toyota Cressida predated the Legend.

and it was marketed in america, if only briefly.

of the top 3 japanese and top 4 german luxury brands, ONLY Lexus never stooped to offer a downmarket 4-cylinder model. (except in europe, with a single diesel car)

even Cadillac once offered 4-bangers, in the embarrassing rebadged chevy called Cimarron.

Lexus has EVERY RIGHT to be considered a tier 1 lux brand.

In that case XYZZ Toyota should be a tier 1 lux brand!

When I owned my Lexus the local Toyota dealership was authorized by Lexus to service the car... Mmmmmmm wonder what that means?

More convenience?

It means I could have save thousands of $$$$$$$$$$$ and bought a toyota instead..

but NO OTHER 6-cyl non-diesel or non-hybrid car, luxury car, will give you better mpg figures.

bmwman--

having the MOST RELIABLE CARS to service, the mechanics and other service personnel at both toyota and lexus dealerships are underworked.

presumably toyota allows either to service what few toyota and lexus vehicles require service.

I'm sorry, I can't acknowledge Lexus or Infinity as luxury brands. To me, they're just a Toyota or a Nissan with 10K+ added to the price, respectively. Sure, they're nice cars, but they're not luxury. Besides, I'd think I'd rather drive an E-class, which is a luxury-type sedan, than put the same money, namely 50K+, into a Japanese car. I think the *only* japanese car I could accept spending that much on would be a Supra if they make a new one.

TWO THUMBS UP KORUKINSHI!!! AT LEAST THE SUPRA HAD AN IDENTITY THAT IT DIDN'T SHARE WITH OTHER TOYOTA'S..

it`s like saying that bmw is not luxury brand becouse of isetta,600,700 that were cars for masses . toyota have longer luxury heritage than lexus (toyota crown, century) and nissan than infinity(president,cima,gloria,cedric) , it`s as long heritage in luxury cars as bmw . honda was at the beginning wasn`t even carmaker for masses , their first car was S500 so they were making sporty cars

A luxury car should have the best materials, should be exclusive in any part of the world in that order. I won´t mention the most exclusive cars but I will tell you that most of germans cars are not Luxury cars but that apply to most of car manufacturers countries. However there are cars (germans) that they are luxury cars, Not brands:
Any AMG, SL (8 Cilinders and above only but even the 6 is very exclusive), CL, or S class and MB-MClaren.
CLK (6 cilinders and they are cheaper) and all other series are excluded.

Any BMW M, , 7 series
6 (6 cilinders options and cheaper) and all other excluded again .
Any Audi RS and A8 series, R8.
Any other Audi series excluded.

In Italy
Any Ferrari
Any Lamborghini
Any Maseratti (but this car is just good design but it is the worst luxury car on the market)
England:
Any R Jaguar or XJ or XK.
US:
GT40
ZR1
Cadillac any V series and XLR
Japan:
Lexus LS and ISF
Infinity

If miss one, sorry but this my personal point of view
And also remember that a luxury car should be exlusive everywhere. Any of this cars is a hit all the others will be cheap cars in their countries, as an example E Mercedes or 5 series as a Taxi but not AMG or M5.

The definition of a true luxury brand is a sordid affair to say the least. Most "Luxury" nameplates have models that would not be considered luxury vehicles i.e. Mercedes A-Class, BMW's upcoming 1 series, Audi A3, etc.

So broadly affixing the "Luxury" classification to an entire nameplate, no matter how steeped their history is in "prestige" can't be done. So we come to this which brands do not produce ANY vehicles which could be considered TRUE luxury?

I don't think the Acrua RL or the Infiniti Q qualify as true luxury. Cadillac has the XLR, but even that vehicle is aged can't compete in the "Luxury" arena anymore.

But despite what anyone says, Lexus has to be ranked among the top 5 "Attainable luxury" nameplates. Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus, Jaguar (still luxury, just not popular luxury at the moment)

When we think of a brand as a 'luxury brand' I guess it's safe to assume that most of us are thinking of each brands flagship model. And I say that because - I'm sure - most of us would consider a Lexus LS600hL to be a more luxurious car than a BMW 128i. Wouldn't we? Or that a Cadillac STS-V is higher up the 'luxury ladder' than an Audi A3. Right?

That said.... I think ANY company can have - within its fleet of cars - a 'luxury car'. For instance - the Acura RL is a 'luxury car' - but no other Acura is. The Infiniti M35 and M45 are 'luxury cars' - but not the G35 and so on. The Mercedes-Benz E and higher class of cars are 'luxury cars' - but not the C or B. The BMW 5 series and up are 'luxury cars' - but the the 3 series and lower. [And so on]

Some companies only make 'luxury cars' - like Rolls-Royce and Bentley - but most have at least a few cars within their fleet that could not be considered all that 'luxurious'.

Craig!! :o)

luxury brand we can be rolls royce , bentley . ferrari , porsche is sport brand (some ferrari,porsche are luxury-sport ) , aston martin luxury-sport , lamborghini are showy cars . mercedes , lexus , jaguar are premium brands and infinity , bmw premium-performance . (mercedes , lexus , jaguar , infinity , bmw , cadillac , volvo) -> they have luxury models , performance models , sport models but we can`t say that they luxury brand . in my opinion mecedes A,B,C class , bmw 1,3 series , lexus IS , cadillac BLS and many other models can`t be recognized as a luxury but premium yes.

Ahh yes. Another flame war posted up by 009.
Come on 009, you're supposed to be a professional journalist. If this was posted up on a car forum such as that of Acurazine or Bimmerpost, sure whatever fine. But this is supposed to be a "supposedly" professional journalism.

El34retard
"BMW isn't a luxury mark, it is a German taxi company."
actually, most of the taxis in Germany are Mercedes.

Luxury is subjective and just because you and I may not like a brand, doesn't mean it doesn't qualify as luxury.
IMO
Mercedes, Bmw, Infinti, Lexus, Jaguar, Cadillac,Audi, Lincoln (even though I don't like any of them). I'm excluding the ultra-luxury makes.