Toyota is bad for America!

Last week Sen. Obama launched a broadside on Detroit automakers arguing that the lagging fortunes of US automakers were the result of their failure to "answer the rising global demand for fuel-efficient cars."

The problem is that Sen. Obama has missed the secret to Toyota's success.

An industrial relations model that treats workers like machines, and has pursued a union evasion strategy employing permatemps and wage parity to reduce the incentive to unionize.

But Toyota worker's wages are set to drop, if Toyota has it's way.



In February of this year, an internal memo detailing Toyota plans to slash wages in their North American plants was leaked to the media. Shockingly, the plan appears to call for Toyota to reduce worker pay by more than half.


The company acknowledged that the documents supplied to the Free Press were authentic.

In a memo to workers at the plant after the report was circulated, Toyota noted that workers at Georgetown earned $3 an hour more than the U.S. auto industry standard. The Free Press reported last week the workers averaged $30 an hour, including bonuses.

Currently, the median for comparable manufacturing jobs in Kentucky -- half earn more, half earn less -- is $12.64, according to the U.S. Department of Labor.

Toyota's strategy resembles what Hyundai Motor Co. uses at its plant in Montgomery, Ala. Assembly workers there make $14 an hour, about half the wages, bonuses and benefits of Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Detroit's automakers. But Hyundai's wages still are considerably higher than for comparable Alabama jobs, which pay $10.79 an hour.

"Our challenge will be how to educate team members and managers about our condition, so that they can understand and accept change," Sudo said in the report.


And it's not just about wage reductions. James Parks over at the AFL-CIO blog reports that Toyota is "dissappearing" workers in order to replace long time workers with permatemps with much lower wages and largely without health benefits.

That's right.

They fired workers because they were injured on the job. That whole "satanic mills" thing seems to be on the rebound with global corporate elites.


...workers say the company, which is nonunion, is firing employees who are injured at work. In addition, full-time workers are being replaced with temporary workers who are paid half what regular team members earn and have little or no health insurance, workers say.

At the town hall meeting, Tim Unger, an 18-year veteran Toyota worker, said he's noticed that some long-time workers have "disappeared" from the plant after they were hurt on the job--victims of Toyota's quest for improved efficiency. Says Unger:

Shoulders would wear out, wrists would require surgery and back
and hands started to fail. It seemed as if the good people who
contributed to the success of Toyota were being used up and
disposed of like garbage.


Earlier this year Toyota overtook GM as the world's largest automaker, yet Toyota workers in Kentucky, Indiana, and California are having their hard work rewarded by being replaced by permatemp workers. Is this really the industrial relations model we want dominating the auto industry?

EL34EL34 - 3/27/2008 12:16:33 AM
-1 Boost
Obama be right :-/


Homer008Homer008 - 3/27/2008 12:27:15 AM
-4 Boost
And your cry baby whiny assed opinion would be.....?


abcdabcd - 3/27/2008 4:22:15 PM
-1 Boost
hahaha...they are then like bees or ants .
do you really think this is possible with peoples . i don`t , particularly this dead by overwork . i agree that dead by overwork is possible in very bad conditions in nazis or soviet work camps for examples.


NagooyaNagooya - 3/27/2008 12:22:57 AM
-2 Boost
Toyota's are ugly.


Homer008Homer008 - 3/27/2008 12:30:08 AM
+2 Boost
LOL, true..but also very smart for investing in some poor states where there are low income level folks needing a job..not to some Mexico or Cananda to go us hungry.


EL34EL34 - 3/27/2008 12:36:57 AM
+1 Boost
Toyota is an outsourcer building cars in America.

Those cars should be built in Japan :-(


M35MTM35MT - 3/27/2008 7:45:50 AM
0 Boost
Shut up Obama, its only time before you and Hillary and permanently silenced.


AgentOrangeAgentOrange - 3/27/2008 11:02:20 AM
+9 Boost
^^^too bad we can't ship some people out^^^^


rockerrocker - 3/27/2008 11:17:33 AM
+5 Boost
GoObama08 - Rev. Jeremiah Wright?


agntbrwnagntbrwn - 3/27/2008 2:07:58 PM
+3 Boost
isnt there suposed to be some sort of age limit for joining one of these forums? if there isnt, can we put one in? like nobody under 14 please?


rockerrocker - 3/28/2008 9:33:52 AM
+2 Boost
Stop bitching. You should really worry about Hillary and how you can recapture the Democratic populous' backing.


stash84stash84 - 3/28/2008 1:56:23 PM
-2 Boost
Obama is the best thing that can happen to this country..

Hillary Clinton AND her husband are liars !!!!!

uh..Bosnia ???!!!????




LACMANLACMAN - 3/28/2008 12:40:01 PM
+2 Boost
...as I was reading everyones comments (silliness), I totally forgot what this article was about too...


RupertRupert - 3/27/2008 8:34:28 AM
+5 Boost
I don't understand that either...it means we have a cheaper goods - why is he complaining??


RupertRupert - 3/27/2008 12:36:31 PM
+5 Boost
It is a good one, goods are cheaper.
Do you have any idea how expensive clothes would be if they were all made in the US? Imagine the union problems the Big 3 have but with clothes or computers!

Hate the republicans all you want, I'm hardly their biggest fan (and if I were in the US I would certainly vote Obama), but Chinese manufacturing has enabled the American middle classes to buy things that would have been far out of their reach, like mobiles, TVs, and many other electronic goods (probably the computer you're writing on).


RupertRupert - 3/28/2008 12:15:11 PM
+3 Boost
Well we've had a left wing government in Britain for 10 years now, and most stuff is made in China and most call centres are in India...it's not a Republican thing.
And why are the middle classes weak? Surely cheaper stuff helps them?!?


RupertRupert - 3/27/2008 12:40:50 PM
+6 Boost
The US would not collapse because of European and Asian companies buying US businesses - it's called foreign direct INVESTMENT for a reason - more investment, more jobs, more money for the US. Everyone wins. And with the economic trouble you're having at the moment, you need all the FDI you can get, and your getting it because of the weak dollar, which has massively encouraged Europeans to buy US products (why do you think GM has set up Cadillac in Europe? Because they make a bundle due to the exchange rate!), buy invest in US companies and travel to the US as it's cheaper! A ton of my friends are going/have gone to the US simply because it's now so cheap there, it's becoming an affordable holiday destination! The weak dollar may look bad, but it's helped you no end.


sold2earlysold2early - 3/27/2008 8:42:50 AM
+2 Boost
I think The Onion produces more credible stories than this. Was this intended to be serious?


DutchmanDutchman - 3/27/2008 10:06:58 AM
0 Boost
Guess who loans the United States all the money we spend on war machines and bullets....yep the Japs and Chineese.


LexSucksLexSucks - 3/27/2008 10:20:06 AM
+4 Boost
The more I read these responses, the more I realize what a bunch of fools I'm sharing the planet with.


r_driver04r_driver04 - 3/27/2008 12:07:09 PM
+4 Boost
Interesting discussion on a automobile blog. We all know what's happening to America. And the beautiful thing about this great country is that everybody's a fool and an expert all in the same breath.

I say just be sure to vote and leave it at that!!!


hybridfarcehybridfarce - 3/27/2008 2:15:20 PM
-3 Boost
+1 to LexSucks and r_driver04

You should see the politics on the "green" car blog sites...


chewychewy - 3/27/2008 4:13:45 PM
+2 Boost
Americans don't want cars that get good mpgs. As a politician you either do something about it (like a gas guzzler tax for all cars) or stfu about people not picking fuel efficient cars themselves.


SteveSteve - 3/27/2008 4:22:41 PM
+3 Boost
Time for "nicehomer" to do some more homework! Everyone has their own pet theory on why "something is". Most are uninformed.

When people bash Toyota or Honda or others for their business practices, these bashers forget that the very same companies have set up shop in the US and in Canada, making vehicles there, using North American labor at going North American rates, and with North American union issues, in North American factories, using North American technology. And yet, these foreign-owned companies seem to be able to do a better job than North American companies, even when playing side-by-side on North American turf.

Time to be honest with ourselves. America is brilliant at many things. But delivering a *desireable* real-world car to the American market is something with which they seem to struggle. They've proven it can be done, but much too infrequently.


Need4SpeedNeed4Speed - 3/27/2008 4:31:31 PM
-2 Boost
Toyota is the Borg and resistance is futile!


dano100dano100 - 3/27/2008 6:40:55 PM
+3 Boost
What Toyota is doing is not unique. It is happening in all of American industry. And the UAW is assisting this effort.

I work for PPG Industries and they are a major automtive supplier. I have been there 36 years. Our plant had been non union for the past 49 years. Last year we voted in the UAW because of fear that the company was going to cut our wages and benefits. Our contract was finally ratified last month.

The result: The UAW negotiated a $1/hr. CUT in pay, agreed to let the company eliminate 4 of our 6 health insurance choices, let the company discontinue matching our 401K contribution and allowed them to hire permatemps at $9/hr. with no benefits. I make $21/hr. but will be replaced by a $9/hr. person at retirement. We were told by the Union that it was the best we could hope for and to vote yes.

Meanwhile our CEO received $8.5 million in salary and bonus's for 2007. I do not begrudge anyone being paid great sums of money as long as they have earned it by doing their job successfully, in this case making all the divisions of their buisness profitable. Our division, automotive glass is the legacy of the company (formerly Pittsburgh Plate Glass) but current management for some unforseen reason decided to let us "die on the vine" by not spending money on capital improvements for over a decade, then complaining that the Chinese and others are kicking our ass. Not hard to figure out when the compitition has the latest technology in their plants and we are using worn out 40 year old machines.

By the way, glass has never been unprofitable. It is just not making double digit profits that their "hot" new aquisitions have made. There is no loyalty to the American worker any more. What these CEO's don't realize is they may have their reward now but not in the next life when they see the lives they have ruined because they refused to do the "hard work" it takes to keep a buisiness healthy and remaining loyal to those who made their past successes possible.


brioboybrioboy - 3/28/2008 1:45:15 AM
+3 Boost
Dano 100 got it right. There is a story/joke on the net about the rowing race between the Americans and the Japanese. The Americans have 7 overpaid chiefs and one rower and can't figure out why they can't beat the Japanese team, so they add more chiefs and pay them even more. Meanwhile the Japanese have one chief and 7 rowers, all paid the same and the Americans still can't figure it out. Unlike Dano 100, I resent the American disease of grossly overpaid CEOs and top brass, which crossed the border some 30 or so years ago and that, together with extremely dumb and selfish decisions, led to the demise of my company - which was easily equal to PPG. The Japanese, although not perfect, have far greater loyalty and selflessness and it is no wonder that Toyota and Honda are beating the hell out of General Bullmoose.


fatboifatboi - 3/27/2008 7:46:12 PM
+2 Boost
the topic starter should be sent to serve in iraq along with chris bangle.
america is bad to automotive industry, there is nothing wrong with toyota! if there is anything wrong then itn will be in the americans .. why because toyota and every japanese manufatures owns them and their crappy cars.
you cant compare any american production with japanese in any segment, roll over the world and you will find that american cars sucks the most. 10 diffrent brands share the same platform !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!tell me what japanese brand has something cheap like that .
why do americans hate japanese cars ? because they cant afford to buy them



ChicaneShooterChicaneShooter - 3/28/2008 6:29:28 AM
+2 Boost
"Gov'ts pay back corporations by letting them make as much profit as possible, whether left or rightwing."


there actually is a label when the gov't is in bed with a country's leading capitalists (or "captains of industry" to use a slightly archaic term).

it is f-a-s-c-i-s-m. FASCISM.

the Left generally tries RESTRICTING abuse of power by Big Biz.
while the bill clinton administration was moderately Left on social issues, it was Centrist or even slightly Rightist on economy issues.

the Bushites fascism, with its Homeland "Security" is doing the old 1940s fascist regimes ONE BETTER. they have gov't computers monitoring ALL your bank and other financial transactions. you don't even need $10,000 cash transactions to trigger an alert. 500 $5 transactions flip the trigger too.




puggo63puggo63 - 3/27/2008 11:37:19 PM
0 Boost
Toyota is doing what corporate America has been doing for decades, this is not something new. It is all about the bottom line and pleasing shareholders. It is all OUR fault as well because we, as a US consumer, demand lower and lower prices too. Big corporations want bottom line profits and we want cheap prices so this is what we all are seeing happening>>>outsourcing, "made in China" goods, offering little to no insurance, no benefits periods. People, employer/employee loyalty died a long long time ago...everything now is about the bottom line and meeting our insatiable need for lower price goods and services.


lexusrox123lexusrox123 - 3/29/2008 10:55:41 PM
+2 Boost
i thought autospies.com was about cars...oh well . guess i was wrong


groupracergroupracer - 3/28/2008 7:08:11 AM
-2 Boost
...what this world needs is an asteriod about 20 miles across, then nature can come up with some thing better...


PorschinatorPorschinator - 3/28/2008 1:23:59 PM
+2 Boost
Gimme a break on US business people. Toyota's success is due to a smart business strategy and its leading roll to fuel efficient cars.

Japanese auto industry has it much easier than US Auto Industry for two main reasons. 1) Toyota does not have any Unions and 2) Toyota does not have to pay retirement/medical; the Japanese Gov't covers that.

The upside to Unions is that it protects the worker, the downside is that the Union flexes its muscles to over pay workers and get what 'they' want. In a perfect World it would work both ways. Like most companies Toyota want to get more for less from its employees and a good business will pay according to the postions average pay rates. GM and Ford workers were complaining that Toyota was paying a little more and now this should get interesting.

If Toyotas does cut pay I fear it will be disasterous. I see a major increase in recalls due to unhappy workers. US workers tend to be less loyal or see work differently than Japanese workers. In Japan its a part of your Honor to work hard for the company and tend to get stepped on more. Also I believe US workers are one of the most productive so that is not an issue.


MattBMattB - 3/29/2008 5:14:59 PM
+1 Boost
You are an idiot. Plain and simple.


MattBMattB - 3/29/2008 9:06:26 PM
+2 Boost
This site is for cars, not politics, but since you seem to think universal health care is such a good idea, allow me to provide an example of what it's like in practice.

According to the Canadian Medical Association Journaal, in some parts of Canada, the average wait time for an MRI scan is 22 MONTHS. That's a simple diagnostic procedure that you can get done in the United States on a moment's notice. Now imagine Canada's universal health care system done on the scale of the United States. High taxes, long waits for care, and mediocre quality of care. Imagine how many people will get sicker or even die because they have to wait in lines for simple diagnostic procedures.

Stop listening to idiots like Michael Moore and think for yourself.



atomicbriatomicbri - 3/29/2008 8:09:43 AM
+1 Boost
I disagree with any company that hires permatemps... all this does is cause more issues on many other markets in the marketplace. WHen these people get no benefits, and end up having to go to the hospital, the medical industry loses because these people can not afford to pay the bills for their care. Meanwhile companies that practice this, like Toyota, grow their bank accounts and give the CEO's and such fatter wallets. I think the US should make a law that if you work so many hours in a week, regardless of being full time or part time, that companies should have to offer a basic healthcare package. Other benefits not so much, but in a modern world, simple things like preventive care and regular checkups should be available to every citizen in a modern country.


lexusrox123lexusrox123 - 3/29/2008 11:03:14 PM
+1 Boost
just when i thought this site was a toyota/lexus fanboy vs. german3 fanboy battleground, it just became a political playing field that has something to do with health care and what-not.

what's happening to this website??? next we might be arguing over religion, or something even more futile. i think im going crazy...

btw, barack HUSSEIN obama (oops, a little political incorrectness there) is a crack head full of hot air and empty promises. universal health care. BAH!

uh-oh. now im starting to sound like everybody else on this thread.........


kterpkterp - 2/16/2009 11:21:09 PM
+1 Boost
Post: #10 Posted: February 13, 2009, 1:45 pm Post subject:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me clarify.
Not only is there a gas mileage problem, but over a month ago now, the ABS, TRAC, VSC, and 4WD lights came on.
The dealer said it was a blocked right rear wheel sensor. When they would go to check it nothing was there.

So, they ordered a new hub and sensor and put it in, no sooner was it in and they test drove it and it happened again. So they ordered another sensor.

I finally after 2 weeks get the car back and the next morning, with less than 100 miles of driving, it happens again.

It has been back at the dealer for over 2 weeks again. They sofar have put in 5 wheel sensord and an ECM. They have gone over the wireing and still can not find the problem.

The Toyota customer experience person says they are fixing it, if I want it replaced file arbatration period.

If there was not something seriously wrong with the car why would it still not be fixed when they have had it at the dealer for over a month.

So I am just trying to get some support, and make Toyota do something. I have been told that the arbitration is long and I will still have to pay substantial money to replace a car I have had for 18 mos and only driven 24,000 miles.

Basicaly I want what I thought I was buying.



camaro2010camaro2010 - 6/21/2009 7:35:22 PM
+1 Boost
True, Toyota is not good for America but let's recap....
GM or rather any sort of American made car has come along way in the last 15 years. If we remember the 1980's, GM did have a notable decrease in quality while foregin automakers (toyota most notably) tried hard to improve. I believe it was because GM was a bit "smug" they were doing well and they did not see how they could fall from being the best. So after that, many consumers were dissatisfied and felt GM did not care about the consumer and their needs for quality(Chevy Cavalier 1989 is the best example). Whether anybody likes it or not, this is indeed what occured. However, GM, or rather America automakers have made a great improvement. Tahoes, Silverado, and God's car the Camaro (I'm a proud owner myself) just to name a few of the higher quality vehicles.

If consumers trust GM for better quality again,and they gove some of the cars a spin . Toyota will have quite a bit to worry about


USAistheBESTUSAistheBEST - 8/17/2011 4:43:02 PM
+1 Boost
Any car purchased today is built with the sort of quality that enables that vehicle to start when the key is turned and then get people from point A to B without breaking down. That is just a simple fact, and that could not be said for cars that where built in the 1920's or 30's, or 40's or maybe even the 50's. People don't have "blow outs" anymore either. Tire manufacturers have come a long way as far as quality goes. Products having to do with the automobile just seem to get better with time. That being said, there is not a better quality automobile on the planet than those that were designed, engineered, built, and sold in the United States of America. When you take into consideration the amount of goodness (if you will) per amount of money invested in the vehicles that the United States of America has to offer, the rest of the world pales in comparison. We have taught the japanese how to engineer, build, and sell vehicles. We have even given them an easy inroad to our legislators by allowing scumbag congressmen and senators to get into bed with toyota and honda. The foreign automakers don't pay enough in taxes to our country and they pay the workers that assemble these foreign products in our country less than what is fair.
We need to take our country back. We need to stop buying this bullshilt that America can't built a reliable, fuel efficient vehicle. We build the best vehicles on the planet.

Stop buying into the lie that toyota, honda, or any other foreign vehicle is better than what your country has to offer. The United States of America builds the best cars, trucks, sports cars, and Sport Utility vehicles the planet that we live on has to offer.

PS. Guys that think like the user on here that goes by the name of Steve, are what is putting our country in danger. He's an idiot. I'd like to pull him out of his honda minivan sometime and educate him on what life is like in Japan. Which is where he needs to be living. Dumbass!


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