Do Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes And The Other Usual Suspects Need To Build An Answer To The BMW 1-Series?

Doesn't the IS250 really compete with the 1-Series with it's smallish interior :-?

I said KILLER performance rivaling a Porsche 911 for half the price...An IS250 is nowhere near that kind of performance.

MT just tested the 135i... 4.7 seconds 0-60, 13.3 quarter mile

That's the new benchmark if you ask us...

001

Wow, that is amazing :-)

Thanks 001 for the info.

Infiniti already has a 1-Series competitor, the G37. It's just a lot slower. But same size and price.

and Mercedes still needs to come up with a 3-Series class coupe/convertible (because no, the ridiculously overpriced CLK doesn't) before they start worrying about the 1-Series...

Hey Stupid: You might as well count in BMW's own 650.

It's just a lot slower. But same interior size and way more pricier.

Did they forget to teach you an English, 'sarcasm'?

I understand some people just don't have the brain to comprehend it.

Agent 001, you forgot to mention EVO and STI. Those're the real competitors.

qweasdzxc:
they not really in the same category with 135i.
they are more like pure sport car instead of luxury sport car.
but i DO really wanna see a comparison test of them : )

I'd agree w/ you on EVO 9 or last STI, however as they grow I'm not sure if they are that pure anymore. 3500 lb EVO? Can you imagine? Plus if you throw a LSD on 135 I'd think it can compete on dry pavement.

In Europe you have the S3 which does quite well.

I remember an article claiming that the S3 beat the Lancer Evo IX around the track. That's pretty awesome.

You have no clue of what you're talking about.

Michael Taylor Audi's are usually have the Audi Quattro system. Having a S3 without the Quattro System is like have a Ferrari with no five way traction control.

The Lancer is FWD based...
And the S3 is a great car, and quattro equipped.

S4cabriofoxone:
"I remember an article claiming that the S3 beat the Lancer Evo IX around the track"
Carboy:
"Audi's are usually have the Audi Quattro system"
there is no way that audi s3 is faster then lancer evo equipped with AYC(active yaw control) . audi`s quattro is simply much worser AWD system than mistubishi`s active diffs(torque vectoring not only between the axles but also rear wheels) . that why mitsubishi lancer evolution is so fast around corners and generates lateral g larger then audi equipped with quattro and other cars with AWD .

Look, I didn't just pull that out of my ass. Go look it up. It was some sort of British magazine.

Audi's quattro system is by far better than anything Mitsu puts out. It is the best AWD system there is with the Torsen (think I spelled that right).

Targa:
"Audi's quattro system is by far better than anything Mitsu puts out. It is the best AWD system there is with the Torsen (think I spelled that right)."

you are joking ,right? so why do you think audi in new A4 and A5 , will change their AWD system for torque vectoring system from ricardo and ZF(bmw X6) similar to mitsubishi`s in lancer evo and honda sh-awd :

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4225886.html

learn before you write .

Torque vectoring - the future of AWD:
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/14/torque-vectoring-the-future-of-awd/

i think we have to see how the 1 sells before we crown it the new benchmark.

i love it, and i think it will be a hit, but if it bombs do Lexus and infinit need to build an answer?

that being said, the more affordable hi performance cars the better!

O V E R P R I C E D !!!!

If Infiniti makes a smaller version of the GT-R, and Lexus a smaller version of the LF-A, they will be good competitors to this. Well, I might's spoke too fast, no one know how the LF-A performs. But you got the idea.

I'm personally looking into the IS250 due to gas prices, but I don't like small cars that's the problem.

And of course you'll read it here first!

001

good one Xero !!

Where do people like you come from? Seriously...

No, the Prius is NOT a 1-series competitor. Competing models are generally targeted at the same or similar market segments. The 1-series and the Prius appeal to completely different market segments. The 1-series is far more performance oriented than the Prius, whereas the Prius has a fuel efficiency advantage. 1-series buyers are not going to compare it against a Prius and vice versa.

Michael Taylor - How about this, I've driven a Prius and the only thing of value is the gas mileage. And to be honest if you try to drive it fast you don't get great mileage!

The Prius feels like you're driving in a tin can. At speeds over 80 it shakes wildly. The interior is below average and the car doesn't look good at all.

There is no way anyone in their right mind could compare a Prius to a 1-Series. You can't even compare it to a Jetta! Its more on par with a Ford Focus.

no they dont

Hey 001- What's wrong with 2 fat girls kissing? When you were all over the GMC Acadia last month- you didn't look all that svelte yourself. Keep your auto-similies non-sexist, will you.

And on a 135 competitor. The damn thing weighs only 130 lbs less than the 335- which can actually carry 4 comfortably. It ges the same mimleage- so what's with this dumb reference to fuel economy?

If it weighed 3000lbs flat- and not 3430 (vs 3570 for a 335i 4 door) I'd talk about competition being necessary. Nobody wants a 2 door G35 that weighs in at 3500lbs. Unless its you- the svelte.

Noting wrong with fat girls kissing, just not exciting ;)

001

yuck! can we change the subject back to girls please? lol

I meant CARS. lool

I hope Motor Trend will be more specific as to how they managed the 4.7s 0-60 mph, so the feat can be replicated. No one who has tested the 135i (and there were a lot of magazines and internet sites) has been able to record that time (consistently or not).

Wrong ... Car & driver tested the 135 coupe at 4.7 seconds to 60 mph ... May 2008 Issue

BMWs competitors will try, but as has been proven for generation after generation, the only company in the world that can make a BMW is ... drum roll... BMW. Infiniti comes closest, but Lexus won't build a car smaller than the IS (brand image); Mercedes won't bring theirs over (image) and Audi won't bring over the S3. The 1 series is a class of one, depending how you option it. If you spec it to close to the price of a 335i, there's really no reason to get it (unless you just really want one).

There's an interesting pattern here of size inflation. The new 1 series is really just the size of what an old early 90's E30 3 series used to be, perhaps even larger. Same with all the other makers. With higher gas prices and people finally starting to come around to the fact that lightness is the mojo that makes cars fun, not just horsepower, I'd like to see more small sedans to compete with the 1.

What a loser.

The only thing the LS600h is doing is adding extra horsepower to the LS. It doesn't do anything "special" for the environment, unless it substituted the displacement size of the engine for the extra HP gain which it does not.

People who own Priuses love to talk about how green they are. But what about the nickel-cadmium battery that they contain? Because of these NiCad batteries, the overall environmental footprint of a Prius is a lot larger than many would think.

huu76:
"How long have the STi, Evo and other high performance, affordable vehicles been out and suddenly BMW is the benchmark because some marketing guy says so."
yea that true . difference is that sti , evo are AWD but they cost similar . lancer evo is still unbeatable benchmark in speed around corners , lateral g . sti and evo have of course worser quality of interior then 135i but who buy such cars for interior quality .

I think Toyota's rumoured upcoming affordable sports models (joint venture with subaru) will rival 1 series.

JUGNU

Michael you are retarded. The M3 smoked the ISF on the track on the last comparison. I think it was by 5 sec. if I'm not mistaked. That is an eternity in the racing world. I think the ISF is indeed a fine car, and very close to the M3 and I have nothing bad to say about it, but some of your ignorant comments really make Lexus fans look bad, and more so make people hate lexus.

He makes comments like that just to cause the threads to go on and on and on, because he knows people are going to respond with the true facts.

I think he gets off on making false and stupid comments.

I certainly hope that more companies will make cars like the 1.

001, your "writing" skills never cease to crack me up.

It's also conspicuous that you "forgot" to mention BMW's most obvious direct competition, Audi. Audi is the only brand to have anything like the 135i--the S3.

Not in the USA.

Audi's S3 isn't available here...yet

001

Who cares? Like I said, the S3 is the only thing that can compare. None of the other brands have anything like it, anywhere, period.

You better start to doing some serious research man.

The IS-F runs circles around the M3??? Where to you get your stats from "Toyota Groupie Mag"???

Seriously, the M3 slays the IS-F.......

I suggest you check out this site for the true numbers: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sports/112_0805_bmw_m3_lexus_is_f_mercedes_c63_amg_comparison/results.html

M3 achieved 1st place and delivered 2 mpg more in fuel economy! Now who is lean and green!!!

Facts VS opinions!!!!!

Michael taylor is drinking his lexus cool-aide again. The sugar rush blocks his brain from functioning. Currently - M3 4 vs IS-F 0 ... Car & driver, AUTO Car , Edmunds.com & Motor Trend. idiot

@ MichaelTaylor

PWNED lol

"Seriously, the M3 slays the IS-F"

and u r correcting him when u r just as wrong. M3 slays the IS-F????

JUGNU

Again, check your facts dear friend.

This site may enlighten you:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sports/112_0805_bmw_m3_lexus_is_f_mercedes_c63_amg_comparison/results.html

M3 1st place
MB 2nd place

and of course last place and with 2 fewer miles per gallon is: TA DAH:
IS-F 3rd place

April Best Motoring Tsukuba circuit result:

1st - E92 M3 (Start from last position)-drift king behind the wheel (best lap 1.06061)
2nd - 350Z nismo (3rd position) (best lap 1.06958)
3rd - ISF (2nd position) (best lap 1.07087)
4th - s2000 Type-S (CR ver)(1st position)(best lap 1.07725)

u think if Tsuchiya drive ISF he will win, sure not. they all Pro, he won't take advantage in grip except drifting... 4-5 sec different when cross the line.

m3 is better than ISF in the track. last month he drove GTR beat the 911T, we can say because he is Jap.

Typical, Japanese Rag.. I guess you can read the review..

Check out professional reviews such as in Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Road and Track, Autombile, etc.

The sad thing about the 135i as well as most cars produced today is their weight. Weight inflation is really with us - my last generation BMW 325i weighed no more than 3150 lbs. - my IS250 weighs 3450 lbs and mileage is no better than the 3 series even with direct injection. In spite of the weight increase, my IS250 does handle considerably better than my last 3 series, mainly due to the 18" wheels and sport suspension. Acceleration, to me is more than adequate with the IS250 since I don't drive with the GO pedal to the floor most of the time. In fact it feels quite brisk, with the pedal down no more than 30% of it's travel most of the time. In my opinion, way to much emphasis is placed on raw 0-60 times; if the car feels quick 95% of the time you should be satisfied.

But once you've had that 100%, there's no going back.

The 1 series is really in a class by itself. It would be hard for other manufacturers to follow suit. What small RWD platforms would the others use? and don't even bring up the C-class coupe, not even close.

But you can't pretend it will come close to the 1 Series. You'll only drive the CLC because you work for MB.

as far as fun cars go, the only thing that's close to the 1 43le is probably the miata and the solstice. They're great cars, but by any chance the BMW could win.

The 135 is a blast to drive. Dinan is now offering a performance chip to boost HP up to 380hp & 420 lbs of torque ... mindboggling in regards to the drive and performance of this car.

If, I was Lexus..I'ld veer into hybrid powered car as in Prius/Lexus. The reason is b/c these cars for me just doesn't make any sense in U.S. market where 99.5% of the everyday driving is pretty much straight line. Unless you enjoy showingoff by burning rubber from the toll-booths and McDonald's drive through..these cars won't sell much here in the U.S. I think, BMW3 series w/little plastic M sticker would be the smallest I'd go. BMW really are screwing themselves up again and again...I hope the 1-series tires don't fall off like most of them do when driven a bit hard.

I owned a new 2002 Lexus that was a piece of crap. Constantly in the dealership for electronic and transmission problems. I have owned 4 new BMW's over the last 10 years and have never and I quote "NEVER" had any problems with them. Maybe had to "Replace" the tires a little more frequently due to the "Fun Factor"!

If Infiniti came out with a 1-series competitor, there's no way it would be called I37. The Infiniti I30 and I35 were Maxima-based luxury sedans. Infiniti has reused letters before, but when the M45 came out in 2003 very few consumers remembered the 1990-91 M30 coupe/convertible. The I35 was dropped in 2004 so consumers could potentially be confused by the use of the letter I to denote something totally different.

Infiniti already has a 1-Series competitor, the G37. Both entry level, both same size, both same price.

The Infiniti G37 is NOT BMW's 1 Series competitor. It competes with the BMW 335i coupe:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0708_infiniti_g37_bmw_335

it only competed with the 335i coupe because they were both "entry level". The 335i was much larger, much more roomy, much more upscale, and much more expensive. Magazines said they were competitors because there was nothing else they could compare.

And now there is. The 135i is none of those things. Well, it's probably still more upscale, but compared to the G37 it's the same size, same passenger room, and costs the same.

That makes them competitors, and it's frankly the main reason BMW came out with the 1-Series.

Good point, but I still disagree with you. The G and the 1 maybe similar size-wise, but the G still beat the 3 on that comparison. Imagine what it will do to the 1.
Motor Trend:
1st Place: 2008 Infiniti G37S
More muscle and technology deliver BMW brilliance on a budget.

2nd Place: 2007 BMW 335i
Still a sublime bucks-up dance partner, but can she keep her cool?

The answer is Yes. MerBenz will add the C Coupe, Audi has the A3 and future A2.

The C Coupe (CLC) you speak of will be a good seller but its being produced in Brazil (quality issues) and wil not have anywhere near the performance of the 135.

Cite your sources, please. I read all sorts of enthusiast magazines, both American and European, and I do not recall seeing this.

The 1-series really just reminds me of an 80's E30 with a more powerful engine. A fun, small sporty car that's both easy to park and still reasonably practical. I think that's the direction the auto industry is headed in... VW Rabbit, Audi A3, Volvo C30, upcoming Saab 9-1 (despite those being hatchbacks- remember the 1 is avail. as a hatch in Europe). I think BMW's realised that it's lost a lot of fans, especially now that the 3-series is like an E34 5 series inside, and the 5-series like an 80's 7-series. The 1 should bring them back into the 'small, sporty, fun, practical'.

Sitting here in a MB showroom not selling many A-Class.

I can tell you I sure wish we had a 1 series type vehicle on the works.

The new CLC should sell well at its new lower price point but has no where nere the performance of the 135.

As gw's precious oil keeps skyrocketing, the market is going to shift towards smaller and more practical cars. Since this one (no pun) is getting rave reviews and about as much fun as you can buy in a small 2+2, BMW's competitors arent going to sit around too long and let them hog the spotlight.

after reading MichaelTaylors posts, I laughed and threw in my mouth a little. Keep us entertained MT!

well said, well said..Magic word is:"who cares about the BMW-1 anyway!"..

+1

No, because no one can make a car like the 1 Series. Companies can try but I believe they would fail. The 1 Series is such an amazing car.

Yes, very true. Amazingly how year after year these BMW junks are always on the bottom of the reliability by falling apart almost soon as you drive away from the carlot. Wheels falling off and hitting innocent bystanders waiting for the bus and stuff..BMW also need to fix those little speed dials and goofy buttons..for that matter, entire interior is outdated goof. Only BMW is the used BMWs where re-sale value plummet like a rock only after 2 years and its like 1/2 off! Im going to buy me one and smash it againest a Lexus and watch bmw crumble into little sawdust.

Speaking of sawdust, stop sniffing it and get back on your meds; youre speaking gibberish and nonsense again. We're worried about you.

Seriously, you are sounding pretty sad and jealous. Dont be mad that lexus has NOTHING that gets RAVE reviews. All the hate you can muster wont stop the 1 from being yet another homerun for BMW, it'll only make you more bitter.

nicehomer must be off his bipolar meds. Any person that can read knows that BMW is consistently at the top of reliability and is at the very top of all Lux marquees for resale value. Lexus drops like a bomb when compared to BMW's resale value... I should know I owned a new 2002 Lexus that was a piece of crap and lost my ass when I traded it in on a new BMW.. Lexus crap was loaded with electronic gremlins and the transmission could not find a gear was constantly shifting up and down.

They have stated they want to have a wait and see approach. That is what Toyota has said. And at the same time, said they would not go below the IS lineup. Just what could they develop that is anywhere near the 1 Series? They still have a IS Coupe/Convertible coming out to match the BMW E93 328i/335i Cabriolet.

The 1 series is an amazing car and has brought BMW much deserve buzz but I still think the 3 series coupe is a more complete package being better looking in my humble opinion and having a more luxurious feel inside. I agree with those who think there isn't enough of a price gap between it and the 3 series. Although the 1series is peerless, I do think there are competing cars out on the market today i.e. the VW R32, Mitsu EVO, WRX STI. I don't understand why Lexus is even brought into this discussion. A person considering a BMW would never think of Lexus. As good as they are in the reliable luxury game, they just aren't driver's cars. I see Audi possibly joining BMW in this class already having a platform, A3/S3, to tweak with.

Both BMW's 335 and 135's 0-60 times 0f 4.8s and 4.7s are really incredible. I am not sure how any car company can compete, including BMW itself. The fastest 0-60 time I had seen from car magazine on the new M3 is 4.1 seconds. The Mercedes C63 is 3.9 (Car and Driver) and Lexus IS-F is around 4.2 or so. But is it worth to pay $20,000 more than the 135 and 335 (a little less) for half a second of advantage? Of course I know the handling of these more expensive cars should be better. I would rather save the $20,000 and be happy.

Talking about the Law of Diminishing Returns.

me too

I bet that Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes, etc. will wait and see how the 1-Series does before coming up with a car to compete with it.

"So in our eyes, it's a given that it's going to sell well."


Im not sold on this being a given...A loaded up 135 (aka with leather, navigation, and a sport package) is deeeep into 335 price territory with very similar lease payments...I lease a 335 coupe and there is no way in hell id rather have a 135 at the same price just cause its a tenth or 2 faster to 60mph.

evo,sti,m series they all have racing history & soul, but 1 series doesn't...

bmw 2002, thats where the 1 series is derived from.

I say no that merc audi and lexus should have a 1 series competitor, but theyll do it anyway, just to out do one another for best brand.

@Alec

What are you talking about. Audi had the A3 back in 1996 and the S3 in 1998. Long before BMW was even considering a car in the same segment.
It is BMW who is following Audi.

@ Heyhuub

didn't read where i said about the bmw 2002 did you? which debut in 1966.

Well Audi had the 60 in 1963.

Why? The 1-series is an ugly little chick car. I don’t see why “men” are going goo-goo over it. I’d be very surprised if this car sells.

Why is a woman driving every TL I see?

No. Infiniti needs to produce a higher end flagship product that is on par with the 7 series. I think it was a mistake for them launch the GTR under the Nissan umbrella. Infiniti needed this cachet. Nissan has the Z which is a great flagship product for a mass brand. I think the 1 series will be a niche product that makes sense for BMW given their heritage. The other brands should be focusing in moving up market not down market. C is a good entry level car for MB.

such a retarded question.
BMW 1 series is not much different than its Z4M or Z4. Despite its amazing performance, it's market share are hopelessly low. this car only amazes to car enthusiasts, and (not to talk trash) how many car enthusiasts here are rich enough to afford a 40k car(i know vast majority of you guys are no more than college students since you get too much time to waste) How many rich enough professionals are going to buy a tiny car like 1 series/Z series?

to respond to this question: Did Lexus/MB/Infiniti build a Z3/Z4 fighter? NO. Did BMW sell enough Z3/Z4 to expand their market? NO. Do other car manufactures have to build a 1 series fighter? the answer is obviously NO.

yes i will confess that i am a college student who also works too. I plan on gettin the 335i in 2 years(probably a year if i traded my maxima. i do not lease btw) the 2009 maxima is good but ehh, the 335i definitely fits my profile. i would not get the 135i over the 335i.

The one series has been out in europe for a long time its not the best seller i dont see how it is going to do so well over here. I didn't like the way it drove and the interior is too small and clustered. well i guess well have to wait and see but i dont think lexus and MB are going to be too preoccupied with its placement in the market!

Another baseless statement.. No facts...

Apparently Subaru STI and Mitsubishi EVO DO NEED a 6 cylinder engine considering their subpar performance. The 135i is faster than both, has better service and well ...its a BMW, not a poorly built Japanese econobox.

I would like to see Lexus, Infinity et al follow BMWs lead and build competitors! Cars like the IS-F and G37 only serve to keep everyone on their toes! If the IS-F, Merc AMG models and S/RS Audis were not around does anyone really think the M3 would be the killer it is? Test drove the 135 last weekend and it has me thinking of selling my E39 M5 and getting a Euro delivery 135... so it is not just for 3 series wannabees... also may sell my SUV and get a Honda Fit... all seems to work together in my effort to reduce my "carbon footprint" and cut the fuel bills! I like all great cars no matter where they are from ... but have to say BMWs have something pretty special in road feel, how they handle when pushed hard, engine response, how the controls all work together as a whole to engage the driver! Cars I owned (wish I was rich enough to have kept them all) Chevy 70 1/2 Z28, Datsun 240Z, BMW 3.0 CSL and 1802, Nissan 300ZX Turbo and 240SX, BMW E36 M3 and currently BMW E39 M5.

Lexus can't compete in this market. Anything in this market for Lexus will looked upon as a rebadged Toyota. In order to keep whatever prestige Lexus has right now they shouldn't produce one. At least not in America where our perception of "luxury" cars are bigger cars.

go build your own 135i at BMWUSA.COM...over $42K with prem + sports pkg and NO NAV !!!!!

No way I'd ever consider the car for that price...I'd get a Vette for the same price that would crush it in every category!

btw --- that's with no heated seats, no hd radio, no ipod integ, no park sensors, no prem radio, no sat radio

does include automatic ($1275)

Let's see how much money I can waste

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Build Your Own 2008 135i Coupe\
Base MSRP $34,900
Sedona Red Metallic $475
Coral Red Boston Leather $0
Light Burl Walnut trim $0
Cold Weather Package $600
Premium Package $3,300
Sport Package $1,000
M Sports leather steering wheel with paddle shifters $100
Active Steering $1,400
STEPTRONIC automatic transmission $1,275
Comfort Access system $500
Navigation system $2,100
HD radio $350
iPod and USB adapter $400
Premium hi-fi system $875
Satellite radio $595
Park Distance Control (rear only) $350
Destination & Handling: $775
Total MSRP as Built $48,995

This is the price before any dealer-installed options:
18" Double Spoke 182 (4 wheels without tires) $1,654
18" Radial Spoke 216 (4 wheels without tires) $1,664
BMW Portable Navigation System $650
iPod® Interface Adapter $320
SIRIUS Satellite Radio $495
All Weather Rubber Floor Mats $81

wrong azzhole....just came from an IS350 and now in a 2008 TT (and a C5 before that)....and paid nowhere near the above prices for them for waaaaaay more car....but feel free to blow your cash on a chick car.

so true bags! I feel ya but some guys need a "chick" car to get chicks :)