Hyundai learns from Lexus’ failure, no Genesis for the Europeans

Haha, love that bit in the article where he says sucks for u. I honestly don't think that many people in Europe what one firstly. Secondly, for that kind of money, it would be much better spent on a second hand Audi, MB or BMW with only 20000 miles on the clock.

Lexus track record in Europe?
Not good. If it weren't for America, Lexus would be extinct.

Um. So what.

Lexus does quite well in America, Audi doesn't. And its vice versa in Europe.

Better to be succesfull somewhere than nowhere.

America is the ONLY place where Lexus does well, While Audi Does well in every other country except America. That's not the same.

Can you show me proof (actual sales numbers) of Lexus outselling Audi in Japan?

Xero, does that really matter when Audi outsells Lexus by more than two-to-one worldwide.

Yes but then Lexus(Toyota) as a whole sold a lot of cars in recent years in the "Cheap department" as well. It only looks non-prestigious buying an A1-A3 because of it's size. If it was a midsize sedan you'd think otherwise.

As far as appearance and prestige goes. I don't see how rebadged Toyota's can be more prestigious. The IS was Altezza for christ sake. How is that prestigious? Only in the minds of North Americans after all the heavy marketing catering to people like us on this side of the water.

There is no such thing as an A1 XeroFOOL, and the A2 isn't even in production anymore.

The first poster may be misinformed.
The Genesis may be a whole lot more reliable than a 20K miles German Luxo auto. If this car drives well, which I think it will, it will be a smashing success here. In the low $30's for the V6 model it will be a tremendous value. Hyundai is probably correct that it would not go over well in Europe.

looks like an mb!!! (w/o the big gaudy mb emblem on the grille) doesnt it look kind of like an MB S class???? : (

The article does NOT mention of any Lexus's,"failure"! The title is misinformed. the fact is its steadly picking up paces. That is all Lexayota needs to let the misinformed european folks that the Lexus's engine won't be leaking oil all over the engine and painting black skid marks all over their highways much like VW's engines does.

TurboSpyder:
in lexus , toyota , chlysler , dodge , saab and also Vw, audi engines was oil sludge and was official recall for repair also:
http://www.carcomplaints.com/Volkswagen/Passat/2003/engine/engine_failure_from_oil_sludge.shtml

you should also look which cars are reliable in TÜV Report . here are the links and cars are in order from most reliable to least reliable which is showed in percentage of cars that have serious defects and didn`t pass inspection . cars are in age groups:

2-3 years old cars http://news.auto.cz/aktuality/auto-bild-tuev-report-2008-vozy-stari-2-3-roky-lidove-mazdy-momentalne-vladnou.html

4-5 http://news.auto.cz/aktuality/auto-bild-tuev-report-2008-vozy-stari-4-5-let-v-cele-s-911-jazzem-a-legacy.html

6-7 http://news.auto.cz/aktuality/auto-bild-tuev-report-2008-vozy-stari-6-7-let-drici-z-japonska-vs-vikendove-fajnovky-z-nemecka.html

8-9 http://news.auto.cz/aktuality/auto-bild-tv-report-2008-vozy-stari-8-9-let-vedou-sportovni-porsche-a-mercedesy-a-univerzalni-toyoty.html

10-11 http://news.auto.cz/aktuality/auto-bild-tv-report-2008-vozy-stari-10-11-let-kazdy-ctvrty-ma-problem.html

like you can see japanese cars are the most reliable and german cars also very high . germans are chasing japanese and they are very almost as reliable .

Volkswagen had a short stint in Europe recently where their quality was a bit on the unreliable side. Thankfully those times are gone and the recent VW products have done extremely well in ADAC surveys.

TurboSpyder:
there was many more reliability reports that japanese cars wins e.g. in Britain:
http://www.samar.pl/__/__la/en/__ac/sec,4/new/13716/__1.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/german-cars-in-last-place-for-reliability-say-drivers-555429.html

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/trends7.html?apc=3128339010848601

last is most interesing becouse it is from independent organisation

If European don't buy or choose Lexus, Hyundai...etc that means and takes absolutley nothing from Lexus and Hyundai but just shows the mentality of Europran coustomers.

no matter how good the genesis is or how good a value it is Hyundai know it won't do good in Europe where people just go for badges. If that's true i would say
Europeans are one of the stupidest coustomers.

Intelligent coustomer would check every option and atleast try to and then make his purchase and not blindly just buys one or two brands.

JUGNU

Europeans aren't stupid costumers. They just know a fake when they see one.

Options? are you serious? All cars are not created equal and similar options doesn't make them equal.

If all you are looking at are options then you are missing out (or not accounting for ) on the actual "drive".

Or perhaps they don't want cars that feel like giant barcaloungers and prefer a sporty compact sedan with proper handling and decent diesel engine options.

I'm just going out on a limb here.

GoObama, you're joking.

Among the top ten best-selling brands in Germany (2007):

2. Mercedes-Benz 327,742
4. BMW/Mini 284,889
5. Audi 249,305

There is no # for stand-alone BMW sales.

VW is number one.
Toyota/Lexus is number seven; if they were split up, Toyota might move to number eight and Lexus would not make the list.

Jugnu,

I take offense to your stupid comment about Europeans being the "dumbest customers". Seriously, WTF your problem!?

We don't buy Lexus because Lexus doesn't offer us what we want. Small and efficient engines (aka fuel efficient cars) cheaper trim level, cloth seats, AWD, station wagons etc.

Lexus cars used to be better value than their German rivals, but Lexus has raised prices over here and people are wondering why they should shed out so much money when they can buy a German premium car with everything they want in it and a nice efficient engine under the hood.

Plus, brand heritage is important here. People who pay for luxury cars here want to know they're buying something prestigeous. Lexus isn't prestigeous here at all. No history, no known motorsport participation, no classic cars, no reputation...

Wow, Jugnu, the dumbest statement of the day. Just because Europeans don't buy Lexus means they're stupid?

I used to respect you the most out of all the Toyota/Lexus fan(boy)s on this site. You just lost my respect with that dumb comment.

Lexus doesn't offer what we want in Europe! No GS or IS station wagon, no diesel automatic IS, no diesel GS, LS or RX (most importantly), and just fuel guzzling engines. An IS200 or GS250 or LS350 would be an improvement.
And as Wimmer says - Lexus' are now expensive, for some odd reason. They aren't the value choice.

Stupid Europeans?

I've heard that Koreans are some of the most arrogant and chauvinistic people in the world.

Why is that?

What is the reason for this chauvinistic pride that Koreans exhibit?

At least westerners have good reason to be chauvinistic about their cultures.

If it wasn't for western technology and know how Korea would still be a medieval shithole.

Who invented automotive technology?

Who discovered most of the science for this technology?

Of course, I do understand that Korean civilization was one of the more advanced Asian civilizations.

GoObama08, say hello to Pastor Wright when you see him privately this Sunday at his 1.6 million dollar Chi-Town mansion.

$1.6 mill wouldn't buy you a three-bedroom condo in the nicer parts of Chicago, much less a mansion.

1.6 million will buy you a 3 bed semi-detatched house with a small garden and no off-street parking or garage where I live.
There's a 2 bed flat going for 750000 pounds (1.4 million dollars) like a mile from my house - and they'll sell it at that price. It's insane round here.

Um....

I am from Europe (Germany) and the Lexus LS and IS are not "hot" here. Sales wise they're well below their German rivals.

The only country in Europe where Lexus is doing well is London, excuse me, the UK!

I live in London - and I wouldn't call Lexus popular. People picked the hybrids for the free congestion charge, but that's ending this October. I expect sales to plummet.
For every IS I see, I see about 10 3 series.

goobama-----you should keep your politics out of the car forums..
im sure the non americans agree with me too..

Most of the Lexus you see driving around in Europe are registered by Toyota dealers (there arent any "exclusive" Lexus dealers that I konw of) for "give aways" when you bring a Toyota in for service or for interested people to test them. You can easily get a Lexus for a weekend for free, whereas I doubt that you will that easily get your hands on a MB, Audi or BMW.

Agent507 - true, the nearest Lexus dealer to me is a Toyota dealer as well.

Funny to read how the german fanboys love the great denial. Nothing new there. As for Hyundai, not surprise they will accept failure now, considering they still have a long road ahead of them. And obviously they recognize that the Genesis is not the key solution. Or should it have been?...Either way to bad for them. As for Lexus kudos for them for at least trying to compete in such a tough segment in europe against the heavy hitters. But Lexus will survive with success, it comes with struggle and time over time, that's all.

You're assuming in your theory that the European brands are going to just watch and do nothing. Mistake number one...

No Genesis for the Europeans? Looks like I'm moving to Europe :)

Korean S-Class ... how much when come to Canada ?

GoObama08,

>I meant rarely see a mb or bmw in germany

You must check your eyes.

Where in Germany did you go and how long did you go for?

You do one little visit and you feel qualified to comment?

I've lived in Germany and have been all over there maybe 10 ten times in the last 10 years and from my experience on their roads your comment is bullsh!t.

mercedes 550 is not sold in europe. Not under this badge. Its called 500.

As far as 'luxury' cars in the UK go, Lexus doesn't feature currently (the older LS430 was considered a 'luxury' vehicle, but recorded just one registration in 2007). The Luxury segment consists of vehicles such as Bentley Arnage and Continental Flying Spur, Rolls Royce Phantom, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes S-Class, BMW 7 Series, Audi A8 etc. However, in the Executive segment, the UK sales for year end 2007:

BMW SERIES 5 19974
MERCEDES E-CLASS 13147
JAGUAR S-TYPE 4453
VOLVO V70 4273
SAAB 9-5 3182
CHRYSLER 300 3058
AUDI A5 2067
VOLVO S80 1912
VAUXHALL SIGNUM 1634
LEXUS GS 1336
LEXUS LS 582
AUDI S5 580

Note that Lexus is by no means a 'top' performer. They do outsell one niche market Audi though.

No opinion from me, these are just facts from SMMT database.

Racinghart,

Thanks for the sales statistics. However, I wouldn't consider either the Audi A5 or S5 to be executive saloons - they are GT cars. The A6 is Audi's executive-segment saloon, and I don't see the A6 anywhere on your list.

If you were to obtain A6 sales figures, that would make your sales statistics more meaningful.

racinghart - are you a car dealer? Doesn't it cost money to get stats like that from the SMMT?

Wow, the Chrysler 300 is on that list--anywhere at all? That's pretty impressive.

Wimmer and Willis

read my first post again. I said

"Hyundai know it won't do good in Europe where people just go for badges. If that's true i would say
Europeans are one of the stupidest coustomers."

IF 'THAT'S TRUE' is the key word there.
Well to my yes if it's true that new auto companies are afraid to go to Europe with a very good and competitive product just because they fear that their product won't do good as European audiences just go for their national products and badges no matter how good others are, then yes European coustomers are one of the dumbest.

example here being Genesis. Everyone knows what a stunning value it is. It's almost impossible to charge for an ES and offers LS type car.

Which other cars even come close to this great value tell me.

Therefore Genesis should do well where ever it goes.

then what is stopping Hyundai to sell it in Europe? U tell me.

"similar options doesn't make them equal."

Then what is. It's surely some other biases which tips the scale in some's favour.

"Intelligent coustomer would check every option and atleast try to and then make his purchase and not blindly just buys one or two brands."

Every option mean rivals/competitors.

nationl things shouldn't be that a big factor of an intelligent coustomer's buying desicion. Luuxry, Performance, Value, relibility, serive...etc should.

anyway i didn't mean to offend anyone. It's OK take it easy.

all in all Lexus, Genesis...etc are good cars. No matter where they are made and from. If Europeans are not buying them that means and takes absolutley nothing from these great offereings.

JUGNU

Everyone knows North America is the major playground for japs and Korean autocompanies. If Japs can't keep up with Korean's value and reliability, then Japs have nowhere else to go.

Um...so is a Lexus a fancy Toyota, or isn't it? Because we're talking about Lexus sales, not Toyota sales. It's called logical reasoning, something else that science is based on.

Here's another example of where you might want to go back and apply some logical reasoning: according to you, China had a 5000 year advantage vs Europe in development, and "technology progresses faster as it advances"...yet it still took Lexus 10 years to surpass Germany's 100 yrs of automotive advances...? I guess, by your logic, China must have taken a 4900 year nap.

And what Wimmer and Rupert are saying is that Lexus' offerings are undesirable to European customers. So, yes, $0 is too much to pay for something undesirable. Of course that's logical, so it probably doesn't make sense to you--but keep trying; one day you'll get it.