Who Is The King Of The Hill? C63, IS-F, RS4 Or M3

I see you chose your favorite quote... Here's mine:

"The IS F’s damping isn’t as well controlled as its rivals’ – there’s a fraction more vertical movement, and as a result it lurches over imperfections and doesn’t feel as anchored to the tarmac as the M3 or C63. This slight motion clips your confidence in corners, as does the electric steering, which lacks the required feel and response – turn-in isn’t accurate or sharp enough in this company."

I guess we can all just pick one comment and draw conclusions or at least hope others do!

Poor GoObama08, You just can't accept the fact that every automotive magazine and all the experts rate the IS-F last in every contest against it's German Competitors.

Even the old Audi beat the new IS-F!

Seems everyone agrees the Germans know how to build the perfect Sports Sedan and even Lexus can't duplicate it. I wonder how many BMW's, Audi's, and MB's Lexus tore apart and analyzed over and over just to be beat again and again.

I distinctly remember Clarkson saying he would rather have the C63. IMO, you cant go wrong. It's all in what you like.

Clarkson also later admitted that the M3 was indeed the best car of the three. He says this at the end of that same episode.

That's exactly my point. At the end of the episode he clearly states the M3 is the best and that he would still take the C63. The M3 is consistently technically the best. That doesnt stop people from choosing one of the other options for the way it stirs them. They're all great machines this time around.

Agreed.

Exactly what I expected to see if you swap the benz and bimmer.

Get the point yet? There have been dozens of these shootouts and they almost always have a different winner or placings.

These sedans are so close that it comes down to preference most of the time or driver error.

1. C63

2. M3

3. RS4

9. IS~F

Audi S4? What are you crazy?

Obama, you're just gonna have to drive your Corolla till the wheels fall off.

yeah, Lexus uses only the highest grade "plastic painted to look like metal" trim in their interiors...

I agree with JRobUSC about Lexus interiors. I was never really impressed with the "wannabe metal plastic" in some of their cars. Upon closer inspection it does look cheap, very cheap.

Best Lexus interiors hands down are the ES and GS. I'd go as far to say that the GS interior is tied with the Audi A6 for best in class.

yeah..upon REAL close inspection of lexus plastics..they look cheap..i just checked my is350..but in almost any bmw, the whole interior looks cheap..especially the dash..luxury ?? i think not

Obama:

I'm assuming the closest you have ever seen a BMW interior is from your computer.

While it doesn't have the glitz and glamour(Silver Metallic peices, shiny wood, bit gaudy buttons) of it's competitors, the materials, fit and finish are second to none. That, anyone who has ever driven in a BMW for more than 15 minutes will atest to.

Obama and Stash,

In this test all three German cars got a 5/5 rating for interior quality. The Lexus IS-F got a 4/5.

stash84, I've owned Lexus and BMW cars and for you to say that BMW's interiors are cheap is real rich! LOL

BMW's interiors are not "flashy" and "shiny" like Lexus, but the materials BMW uses throughout it's entire lineup are far superior to Lexus models.

My Lexus looked liked crap after 1 year and my last BMW was five years old when traded for the new 335i coupe and still looked brand new.

Lexus leather cracks and looks so freakin' cheap. The plastics Lexus uses across it's lineup are far inferior to anything BMW uses in it's cars.

That's a pity.

IMO, They are all great car, but if I had to choose one, it'd be the M3, hands down.

Then again, like GoObama08 says, I wouldn't be disappointed by any of these cars because they are all awesome.

M3 is king of the hill. It's still the benchmark. Lexus IS-F is not even on the f***ing hill.

When the IS-F was compared to the RS4, it lost.

When the IS-F was compared to the M3, it lost.

When the IS-F was compared to the M3 and the C63, it lost.

When the IS-F was compared to the M3, C63 and RS4, it lost.

I wanted to want this car, but the magazines have decided for me.

GoObama, you weaken your argument when you attack the author. LOL, and I don't think so are not good explanations on why the IS-F should be on the hill. Give us some facts on why the IS-F is better than the others. Oh, I am sorry, S4cabriofoxone already gave us some facts, and the IS-F is not looking good. We know the GT-R is great because it bested the 911 turbo, which is the benchmark. Lexus didn't do better than the benchmark.

You are such a f***ing idiot. It all comes down to opinion and feel. 99% of the people here have and will not even be able to drive these cars. Those you that can, speak your mind. You other bench racing wannabe's can kiss our a**es. we drive these cars on a daily basis. Read all you want, you can't speak from personal experience. Buy another magazine you can't afford the car.

s4..you shouldnt let other people give you an opinion to believe in..you should come to a conclusion yourself. you are being brainwashed by magazines !

im sure you didnt listen to people that said that a bright blue convertible is gay..who cares what they think right? so why would you listen to 1 person that gets paid to give their opinion on a magazine? opinions are like a______, everybody has one...

Well, the four sports sedans are certainly very similar. The performance specs are neck-and-neck. So if the IS-F consistently loses to other sedans a lot like it, what could it possibly do to redeem itself?

By the way, if you have to validate your masculinity by saying other people are gay...

Well, I won't go there.

BMW sucks

LOL, I know what you mean xdrive.

All I've heard for over a year is just wait till the
IS-F hits the streets. It is gonna kick the M3's butt.

The M3 has defined this segment for decades and BMW shows no sign of giving up the slogan "The Ultimate Driving Machine."

even if it is worser I think they did it right becouse it`s different then germans e.g. :
"it’s no stripped-out racer, but the best equipped car here, with 10 airbags, sat-nav and electric everything."
"once the needle sweeps past 3,700rpm the 417bhp V8 takes on a whole new persona ... engine note, previously almost silent, becomes purposeful and loud"

i also can`t understand that in many comparison I`ve read journalists think that when engine have max torque at high rpms it must be revved to deliver like in this comparision:
"the engine needs to be worked quite hard to deliver – torque peaks at a high 5,200rpm"
this is only max torque , torque line may be very flat(i don`t saying that it is in is-f but this is what is strange for me) .
why they don`t using low rpm to check which cara are fuel effecient like EPA which gets 23 mpg highway .

Well, 5,200RPM is not normal for peak torque in a V8 because eight-cylinder engines generally don't have to rev very high to attain a large amount of thrust. That's why you buy them over fours and sixes, along with their sexy exhaust notes.

Did I say it didn't?

The M3 actually has a much flatter torque curve than the IS-F. There was an article posted earlier on Autospies that showed this.

S4cabriofoxone:
"Well, 5,200RPM is not normal for peak torque in a V8"
this is only peak torque like i said and what for you mean "normal" .
where engine has peak torque don`t saying to much becouse engine may has the same torque on low revvs but higher in high revvs(in comparison to this which have peak torque at low revvs)e.g. there was many american cars with big V8 and peak torque at low revvs but this was low torque , even engines (of that same capacity) that have peak torque at high revvs had bigger torque at low revvs .

Well there you go JC.

You're always right ;-)

Wow, Jesus posts on Autospies!

moron
Brazil is never creative.

I would have to say the M3 is still king, but the beastly Benz certainly makes a case for itself, and I'm excited to try on both.

oooohh I smell flamewar....


M3 or RS4


on a side note, they should include the CTS-V!

I would like to see the CTS-V in there too, but do not think it is out yet or for some time. For me, it would not have to win, just come in third and beat the IS-F. IS-F, does that stand for: Is Fourth?

before i even read the article or the comments, i knew that the lexus basher/haters and the bmw/mb/audi fanboys would be at there worst!!! imo, an embarrassment to autospies.com.

uh-oh do i hear the german deboosting squad??????? (:o

I actually noticed that it was a Lexus fan who not only posted the first comment but used his post to bash the German brands.

Htay7500 - This is a British European magazine. No one considers teh CTS-V as a competitor as Cadillac doesn't register in Europe. No attach on Cadillac, just the way it is. Lexus has made more inroads in Europe than Cadillac so I see it as a natural to include it in the comparision.

wrong comment.


But yeah I hope American mags here will do a 5round test. I smell a fight!

Personally, I like the C63. It looks completely bad ass - and its damn fast. Second - M3, Third - ISf, Fourth A4.

A4?

Sure, the A4 is last compared to all of those cars.

But the RS4? That's entirely different.

And to think, I was going to boost you up...

lol...S4 I did that just to get to you..

Hank Hill

For the record, I don't hate Lexus, but what I do hate is when Lexus claims it builds better cars than the German makes.

No offense Lexus, but I see 30 and 40 year old BMW's and MB's still running down the highways that haven't been restored and look fantastic, but everytime I see a Lexus that is more than 5 or 6 years old it looks like HELL!!

I think you get what you pay for and Lexus is just like it's parent Toyota in the fact that it cuts corners to save on materials and quality.

I've owned them all and know for a fact BMW and Audi make some of the most durable and reliable cars on the road. Compare a 10 year old BMW or Audi with the same number of miles on it to a Lexus in the same category and I believe you will know the truth, German Makes are Survivors and WINNERS!

Hear! Hear!
I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one that notices how well German autos hold up over the years when compared to Asian autos. Lexus materials seem to be very cheap when measured against their german counterparts.

That was such a lame comment XeroKool..

Obviously you don't or if you do you must wear blinders...

"I've owned them all and know for a fact BMW and Audi make some of the most durable and reliable cars on the road."

wtf??? lmao...oh man...thats funny bmwman..

its ironic because around here, hyundais are REAL reliable..i see alot of accents with 200k+ miles and still running strong. its funny how things are so different due to location...maybe its the weather

stash84, try adding 10 or 15 years to those 200,000 miles and report back to us...

Geez, didn't know there are so many people driving that can't actually identify the year, make and model of a car.

LOL.."BMW and Audi make some of the most durable and reliable cars on the road."durable and reliable? yes, better than MB, but not "one of most reliable", etc.! according to Consumer Reports, J. D. Power, bmw and audi arent very reliable. Yes, some of them are, but not so much to say "one of the most reliable!"

Incredible the bullshit that gets posted on this site. Go to the poorer regions of North Africa, South America and the Middle East and see for yourself the thousands of Mercedes' cars still driving around. I'm talking about models from the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s as well as some abused 2000 models.

I speak from experience lexusrox123! I've owned:
4 BMW's (Never had any problems of any kind, best and most fun to drive of them all, excellent materials!)
1 MB (Had 1 major mechanical problem)
1 Acura ( excellent car but way tooo boring!)
1 Lexus ( major electronic and transmission problems)
1 Audi ( Great all weather car, no problems, interior and exterior are the best of any car)

I can honestly say the Germans make the most sound and durable cars on the market. Over the long run the German makes will far outlive the others based on number of years driven and miles accumulated.

The Lexus was by far the most problematic of them all. Even when I got a loaner Lexus while mine was in the shop (different model and new) it sucked.

1. M3
2. RS4
3. IS-F
4. C63

All 4 cars are pricey and have nice interior and exterior design but I think the M3 got this.

The 3 German cars are all King of the Hill.

The Lexus is the King of the moron club.

Real world, tracking asise, the fastest king of the hill from point a to point b is the RS4.

1.- C63
2.- RS4
3.- M3
4.- IS-F

GoObama08, just how much $$$$ do you have invested in Lexus, oh excuse me, Toyota stock?

Must be hurtin' bad with all the Toyota recalls as of late!!!

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=123158

1. Audi RS4
2. Lexus IS-F

"Where the IS-F has a certain look that we associate with the worst excesses of the aftermarket, the Audi is all understated musculature. It's relatively subtle, but we like it."

"Audi's 420-hp 4.2-liter V8 makes up for its displacement deficit with high revs, and it will constantly remind you why you write such a big check every month. It has the finest exhaust note on the market today, and the tone never wavers. There are no pronounced bursts of power in the Audi's curve; instead there's power everywhere."

"The RS4 is offered only with a six-speed manual. Turns out, for a dedicated high-performance car, that old gearlever-and-clutch-pedal thing is still the way to go."

"Even with the roughly 70 pounds of extra weight that it carries, the 3,848-pound Audi is the quicker of these two cars. "

"Yet the Audi has the more communicative steering here. Its cornering attitude is surprisingly neutral. And its compromise between a comfortable ride and good handling ranks with the best that BMW has accomplished over the years."

"The all-wheel-drive 2007 Audi RS4 just plain hauls ass. It doesn't rotate around an apex like a rear-driver. It's less the rapier than it is the broadsword. But it's devastatingly effective as a street machine, so it wins."

Edmunds.com's InsideLine a blind fanboist site, huh? I guess every single other publication is too then, right? Since the Lexus has lost in every one of them, I mean.

I'm starting to think GoObama08 is fake, like MichaelTaylor. I know the copycat, GoObama, is a troll trying to make GoObama08 and other Lexus people look bad (not that he needed help), but up until now I assumed GoObama08 was for real with his blind love for Lexus. But while he used to border on the absurd he's recently decided to cross way over that border. Which is it, Obama08? Are you pretending? Or are you really just that much of an idiot?

Dont yell. And why do I have to buy another car? I cant have my cake and eat it too?

who is clearly a winner in comparos like this? that all depends on whos testing it and their liking of other cars. is-f is too new to get a foothold and take away the sales. im a bit surprised that the m3 didnt come out on top, guess the reviewer couldnt ignore power.

And honestly being #1 for these types of sedans is so hard to meet expectations, for one the german brands are in the top 3 as i said the is-f is too new to the market (im still turned off by the way it looks, fat, over dressed, could have used another 6 months of work). as for the german brands, i liked the rs4 and m3 very much, and the mercedes not so much.

and this is coming from a lexus owner (is350), just cause i have one, doesnt mean i dont know which sports sedan is best. m3 or rs4 is my prefered choice.

I'll take only the IS-F, and donate the rest.

why do my posts keep getting deleted...

BMW didn't over heat this time on a comparo test!!!
congrats to BMW for not Bar-B-Queing the s..t out of the test driver!
(I bet he feels lucky too)

And the IS-F's brakes didn't catch on fire. Congrats to Lexus.

M3
RS4
C63
IS-F

but they're all great cars, too bad the C63 wasn't equipped with the AMG performance pack makes a huge difference

Looks like Lexus overhyped their fuel economy claims AGAIN:

"The IS F was even thirstier. As high revs are needed to get the best from it, we achieved 15.0mpg – way short of Lexus’s wildly optimistic 24.8mpg claims. Despite the long gearing and great aerodynamics, we struggled to top 20mpg on the motorway."

Link: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/grouptests/219648/lexus_is_f.html

If it is such a match for them why has the IS-F been rated dead last in almost every automotive roundup against it's competitors?

So much for Lexus always being "The New and Improved"!

Lexus has had years to analyze the M3 and still couldn't get it just right..

Can't wait to see the Lexus knock off club pulls out of it's magical hat now that the 1 series is doing so well...

just recently, either c&d or r&d tested 3 of these cars and the ISF was last. the ISF is a good attempt, but its rivals can do it much better.

King of the hill?Huh.
Those cars are too close. Just read the single reviews about the ISF and read the first drive review of Auto express. They're already against this car from their first try. LEXUS has never chance to be considered as it's real value.

LEXUS for me. The M3, MB, RS4 are great cars. How a real car enthousiaste could hate one of those cars?

Honestly you guys are all tards and only know about the brand you like. :(

pwnt

M3...tops is handling, weight distribution, a high-revving engine, a stick and great looking.

done.

"Lexus products have never shown the slightest hint of sporting prowess, yet this model looks set to upset the establishment"

they go that right. this is the first lexus able to play with the big boys.

Has the IS-F(ugly) ever ranked higher than last place in any comparison test? Don't think so.

No, and I really tried hard to find one when it didn't place last.

Wanted to give the Lexus Fan Bois something to wipe their tears with, but no luck at all... LMAO

This review is very bias. Looks like they just can't get over C63's huge power. and also said somewhere that it outperforms the new R8 let alone the RS4. Well there it is.
C63 may have gotten the same number in 0-60 as R8 but in all other performance areas R8 will perform far better.

anyway my choice would be

C63(Love the performance, awesome engine but styling and interior is not a strong point)

IS-F(Nice stylish design, interior, transmission is awesome, performs good but slightly less than the C63. That's why it's second)

M3 Sedan(Great car. Great engine. but i like coupe more. I don't like it's styling inside and out)

RS4(Very competitive, 4WD is very good, but exterior and interior looks dated)

JUGNU

This article had a crazy comment about the M3.
"Engine, chassis, suspension and brakes all work in harmony in the sharp BMW. Yet its limits are too high to be enjoyed on public roads" ....Huh?

That makes perfect sense. It doesn't mean the BMW cannot be enyoyed on public roads, (as you might be assuming) it means you cannot reach its limits at public road speeds.

Best car for the track = M3 (but only cocks drive M3s)
Best car for Northern US / Canada / Europe driving conditions = RS4 (you can not beat AWD)
Best Car for hooning and day to day driving = C63 (seriously you can't argue with that 6.2lt engine. It is an absolute work of art!)

And finally

Best car for absolute poser / wanabie / boy racers & possible the ugliest saloon ever made = ISF

"Engine, chassis, suspension and brakes all work in harmony in the sharp BMW. Yet its limits are too high to be enjoyed on public roads"

I pondered that comment too for a bit, by implication, you can enjoy the C63/IS-F on the streets at their limits? Tooling around downtown Chicago, powersliding around the sharp corner on Lake Shore Drive, near the Chicago Ave exit sound like fun, but I think I'd rather be in the M3 if I decided to take that corner at 60+ mph ;)

Excellent analysis huu76. The subjentivity and personal preference dominat most of tests. Unfortunatly.

"I have no real beefs about the review, it didn't go out of its way to elevate the usual European cars but still does seem based more on opinion/preference."

As opposed to?

I'm sure, if the Lexus had won, it would've been based completely on facts, right?

1. C63
2. M3
3. RS4

1000. is-f

The IS-F loses yet another comparison. Will it ever win one?

Honestly, I don't like driving automatics, so the Merc and the Lexus are out for me.

As a daily driver, I would take the Audi over the M3 for the AWD.

The RS4 is simply one of the best well rounded cars for driving in any sort of activity and/or weather you will find on the street. To deny that it is a marvel of engineering and one of the very best cars you can buy questions your intelligence to the rest of us who have good heads on our shoulders. Imo it is not 'dated' and is just as fresh as any of these cars. The fit and finish is a step (or 3) above these other cars as well. Yeah it's not good at drifting but I stopped being an idiot back in high school.

"Whether you’re driving on the road or track, the M3 is superbly balanced – not only in terms of its chassis, but also the way it all works together. It’s amazingly poised, and takes everything in its stride. The trouble is, it’s almost too capable; the BMW doesn’t feel as special to drive as the Merc, and its limits are simply too high to safely explore on public roads. "

Interesting how they placed the C63 over the M3. Its a known fact that the M3 is the best handler/track car, and thats enough to make it the winner in the segment in my opinion, even though it has the smallest engine of them all.

The C63 would blow and walk away from a M3 on the long country roads or on the German autobahn which itis built for and not these little no name Mickey Mouse test tracks that arehand picked to make certain modells look better in comparison tests...

M- track star
C- Bad-boy straight line killer
AWD'er- All'round All season fun fest
'F'Jap- Fortune cookie say...me get laid more with this car ;-)

Each of these cars will 'do it' for each individual for a different reason. Which is why everyone on this site professes they are correct for their own reasons