Lexus LS fails Auto Motor und Sport braking test - AGAIN

They'll hide in shame. Or blame it on the Germans, like always.

And this will not stop Lexus one single bit from them Being the most Peffered #1 Luxury U.S. Brand. It's something that Americans like about Lexus and it sure ain't no darn Sport Brake.

"It's something that Americans like about Lexus and it sure ain't no darn Sport Brake."

lol, sums it up perfectly for me...

They don't care about the brakes for cars that come to the U.S. They market for the OLD who do not drive over 50 mph on the freeway. Anything can stop fast at those speeds. Face it, the germans build a car right in every category.

"germanautoaddict"

And What category is that?

Don't the badge whores ever get tired of
trying to belittle a good car like the LS?
The brakes work just like they are supposed to on this high-end LUXURY sedan.

So, at the price of an LS they're supposed to work poorly?
You're saying Lexus are SUPPOSED to be UNSAFE?

They are so afarid Lexus will take over in europe,their writing lies.

Actually the Jaguar XJ and the Lexus won. HA HA

Actually the Jaguar XJ and the Lexus won. HA HA

Actually the Jaguar XJ and The Lexus won COTY

see this
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7jDL-Vj3Dgk

There are so many Toyota and Lexus articles this week that Autospies must be on their payroll.

Sorry, I just realized that all of the articles are negative. Oops.

the key issue = german magazine no wonder it failed

How dare they shine a light on any chinks in the armor for Lexus! Damn, now the toothpaste is out of the tube!

"Poor braking and stability issues have long affected Lexus and Toyota models in various European roadtests." OUCH. Americans buy them for their soft mushy ride, cupholders, and parking help.

If they were, would the post this article?

Come on Lexus fan bois lets hear from you....

The Germans are waiting for a response.... LOL

Who really needs brakes anyway?

Yes that is amazing, Toyoto-Lexus buyers can give it however they cannot take it they hide.

Lexus and Toyota has been fooling the American public for to long now it is time they autos show the real colors.

Lexus has to be the most boring car out there today. style looks like a Grandma's car. What are they trying to do compete in a sports car I mean have they ever even made a sports car, I mean a real sports car!

"Brakes aren't all that important in the stop-and-go driving of Japanese cities so lay off"

The keyword in your statement is "STOP", and you say brakes are not important. You wanna clear that up for us, buddy? How can braking not be important in STOP-and-go traffic, when you DO have to STOP?

The "GO" (as in acceleration) is less important in stop-and-go traffic. Brakes are an important safety feature in all situations

Call me crazy, but I would like my brakes to work in 100% of all situations, too. If that makes me a "nancy boy" like you called xdrive, then fine. But at least, with reliable brakes, I'll be a LIVE nancy boy.

Oops... I meant "a living nancy boy". I'll be alive.

Great performing brakes are a key element to any car! If I paid for a car that cost this much, I would want it to at least be comparible to it's competition, some of which have been around in current form for 2-3-4-5 years. It also hurts when economy cars, or just cars that cost much less, perform better in braking.

Didn't the LX/Land Cruiser also have some serious brake issues?

Did you even read the article or did you just post for the hell of it?

A great car is nothing without good brakes.

So brake fading does not matter when you going down a hill?
I learn something new everyday.

XeroKool, you have to be one of the dumbest people on the planet!

Well it appears that most of the people on this site agree with me XeroKool.. You have been consistently deboosted on almost every thread you have commented on this site.

You haven't any facts that make sense in this universe where the laws of physics apply..

xero: Yes - engine braking does work at certain gradients, though the hills where I live(and certainly other hills/hilly roads elsewhere in the world), if you rely on engine braking and not your actual brakes, you're dead.

Please rethink your blanket statement.

so your mommy lets you drive her lexus on the streets of san francisco......must be an automatic........250 is my guess.

Oh wait I forgot..........they are all automatics, and only some of them apparently have brakes....

XeroK00L (names fits you well looking at your boost count):
Yea, I am sure everyone engine brakes their Lexus LS...in San Francisco... I mean come on, I am not a german or japanese fanboy and I see how idiotic your points and comments are.

I never said that engine braking was idiotic. You are saying that as long as you engine brake this car, the brakes will be fine. WHO DOES THIS IN THIS CAR? No one. There isn't really any point with arguing with you since you do not seem to understand reality. Oh, and by the way, if you remember, I stated I was not a german or japanese fanboy. People keep pointing out the obvious and you keep shooting it down. Now, please tell me what color the sky is?

XeroKool only lives in the Universe of Physics where The Transformers and The Power Rangers exist, but for him it is reality.. He has no clue about how important braking is for an automobile, especially a high performance car. Engine Braking my Ass.. Tell that to me when I want to come to a stop at 100 mph plus!!!! What a Tard, "XeroKool" is..........

Xero: Please reread my statement, I never said the engine will die, I said YOU WILL DIE. Wow, I never knew toyota/lexus' engine braking can take the place of the actual brakes.

You can honestly tell me that you navigate your so called "steep San Francisco" hills without utilizing the actual brakes? You are totally delusional.

Toyota Lexus buyers dont be fooled any longer They are building a so so car and they all look the same.

I cannot even tell the difference between a Lexus and a Toyota except for the name badge.

xero ... it is never good when you rely mostly on your engine for braking purposes. Havent you ever been to driving school? That is what the brakes are for. Otherwise, why even have them and lets go to back to the stoneage era. Brake fade effects every aspect of braking. What about people that have to make a panic stop cause a kid crossed in front of them? What are we supposed to say, " It is the engines fault casue Xero said that I should use my engine for most of the stopping power "

xerokoolaid:

ESL toll free number: 1-800-dum-bass

For reference (as a side note), the LS does do engine braking automatically when you brake on steeper declines. That said, it's debatable which is better, since brakes last much longer these days, and are much cheaper to replace than engines.

Anecdotally, I have never felt any problems with brake fade in my LS over 4 years of ownership, but I don't take it to the track regularly either. I would say Lexus buyers should certainly be wary of these potential shortcomings, and evaluate their importance in relation to how much track time they expect to log in their new full-size luxury sedan.

in 2007-06 best motoring issue was lexus ls460 and german competitors brake test on the curve that ls460 won with is more important i think than fading .

ps:I don`t like auto motor und sport since i`ve read there about 2 mounths ago that audi and bmw are pioneering torque vectoring systems with isn`t truth(they are ignorants or liars , I don`t know) .

At least the German's prefer the German brand just like the Japanese. LOL

The Japanese don't even like Lexus!!! They prefer German brands.. I guess there is something to be said for the over engineering Germans..

How crazy you toyota lexus owners cannot take anything bad said about your cars even if it is true! this article is to show what is to come with the lexus and Toyota since they are not building that great of car! I have friends that use to be the lexus buyers however because of all the problems they had with their lexus cars they now own a Cadillac and a Mercedes and they are much happy with both their Cadillac and their Mercedes.

When the Lexus ES300 came out (remember the original, bloated-up Camry with a lift-kit?) one prominent US Auto Magazine reported something to the effect that "touching the brake pedal on a corner at speed is taking your life in your hands".
Not much has changed.
I admire Toyotas cost-engineering.
They can take German inventions and reduce the cost greatly with similar results much of the time.
What I don't like about Toyota is cutting safety features, and brakes are a chronic problem.
They covered up the defective master cylinders in the Camry's 15 years ago. (Service Manager: "We've never seen a brake light come on on its own, but we'll look into it" meanwhile they have a pile of replacement master cylinders in back to keep up ... who knows how many folks died when their brakes failed)
They still build Camry's with wimpier brakes than GM would put on a bottom-end Cavalier.
They won't replace brakes worn out within a year on new cars because "that's normal" (my '98 Beetle went 200,000 kms or 125,000 miles on the original brakes and our A6's get a few years on a set ... with hi-speed mountain driving in BC)

The Japanese fan-boys can't understand that some people don't like a company that puts profits ahead of the safety of its customers.
They say a Mercedes Car's most important job is to keep the owner alive long enough to buy another Mercedes.
But if your customers are as old as Lexus' then they aren't likely to be shopping for a next car anyway!

Meant RX300, not ES300 .... talk about Toyota brakes just gets my blood boiling!

bestofallcadillac:
"How crazy you toyota lexus owners cannot take anything bad said about your cars even if it is true!"
i think you cannot take anything good:
"OK found the video here. Enjoy.
Part 1 (traction control test):
http://www.56.com/u21/v_MTU0MzQ1MDY.html
Part 2 (panic braking test):
http://www.56.com/u49/v_MTU0MzQ0NDY.html"
aren`t this facts like this from auto motor und sport?

At this point Lexus should just contract their brakes with Brembo wether it's the big sedans such as GS & LS, along with their large suvs' GX,LX. It should solve the problem...

At least for cars marketing in countries with no speed limits ion the highway. Brakes are a very big issue to them.

You have to put it in the proper context, You gotta stop that massive thing from 150 mph.

Yes on the autobahn brakes are more important than horsepower......

A few feet in braking may not mean much, until you use 6 more than the car in front of you.

Last time I looked there is some sort of law in physics about two object occupying the same space.

Or maybe that was in Battlestar Gallactica or something?

LOL, is that world here or in Germany. Because the world they are referring to is Germany not here.

The problem isn't what Toyota CAN do.
They can build bigger brakes ... that's simple.
Its what they WILL do.
They won't spend the money.
You, as a customer, are of no concern to them once you buy the car.
That's why Toyota wouldn't issue recalls.
Image is more important than customer safety.

Its refreshing to see that they now respect customers enough that they've started issuing recalls on the defects (which ALL cars have, just like every house you buy, etc.)

xerokool,

i have often been reading your comments, sometimes i do agree, in most times i disagree. But your comments about "bad brakes aren´t such a big problem because blablabla" made me sincerely hope that you will never be the driver behind me, not being able to stop his car, because he believes good brakes aren´t so important because you don´t really need them in real world (i guess hybrid is more important WTF). So following your logic airbags would not be neccessary in a car as well, because you don´t need them so often, do you? And by the way, i am pretty sure that you will admire damn good brakes even if you only need them once in your life time, but in exactly this moment (wet road, half of the car in the dirt, the other half on the road) you will appreciate a car with good brakes, because it will enable you to save your own life and the life of others.

Auto moto und sport. Hahahaha. Let me laugh. The most racist automagazine here. Even we know that. But non germans don't know this. Even if god was japanese and built a japanese luxury car, Automoto un sport won't appriciate it. Don't believe.? Come to us few months and expérience it.

Auto motor und sport sucks,,I dont buy the magazine anymore. I know how bad they are and I am an American...

Do you think Consumer Reports is accurate Ha Ha!

I do not know about you I have never been survey by them before.

Motor Trend and Car and Driver magizine voted The Cadillac CTS Car of the year! oh by the way not one Lexus or not 1 Toyota was even nominated or in the running! What does that tell you! It is not just their piss poor brakes that are the problem.

They are boring, all look alike, no styling, and now have bad brakes.

Took a minute to find this, although I did find many negative artiles regarding this car's brakes:

"Drive-wise, the LS is superb in a straight line, handling bumps and road wallops easily. Acceleration is brisk, hitting 60 mph from a standstill in 6.29 seconds. Braking is an LS strong suit. The car needs just 113 feet to stop from 60 mph, which puts it on a level with sports car thoroughbreds such as the Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (112 feet)."

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070223/FREE/70216008/1011

Does autoweek know something everyone else doesnt? Just trying to show both sides of the argument, just like 009.

There is nothing you could post to make some people change their minds on the LS's braking performance.

A review was found that stated the brakes suck. The review is European. That's more than enough for the closed-minded memembers of autospies.

good point, answer. it certainly was the answer.

That number was probably a quoted time by the manufacturer...

XeroKool I hope you are never on a design team or engineering project for the automotive industry, which I don't think I should have to ever worry about since you are totally clueless in the world of the sane... LMAO!!!

XeroKool, it's amusing how you cherry pick your "facts", but when other's on here quote "facts" to you from different sources, magazines etc. you dismiss them. Your name is appropriate because you are ZERO COOL!

Xero,
I really don't know exactly how this publication performed their brake test. What I do know is that brake fade is not always about repeated, high speed, track star braking. Brake fade has everything to do with heat and time. What I'd be concerned about is panic braking at high speeds, really high speeds, speeds reached in the no limit zones of the bahn. The heat generated produces a phase shift in the pad material. Portions of the pad (mainly the resins) will actually evaporate creating a gas. This gas has a bad effect on braking performance even for a single hard stop. I've experienced this with a few vehicles. It's not a fun situation when you need to get slowed down in a hurry. This is precisely the reason why they have such tests. I acknowledge that you have produced a video of a test where the brakes were tested to be fine. SO IDK who is more correct in this situation or if the testing was just that different. But I would definitely say that under all conditions possibly presented by physics, I would want brakes that perform well. You were talking about engine braking in SF. SF does have some steep hills but definitely not the steepest in the world as I have been down some ridiculously steep roads in other parts of this country, and engine braking doesn't slow you enough for those grades. And just because you and I and probably a lot of other proper drivers know about the engine braking technique doesn't mean everyone else knows. Another thing, with automatics these days automatically kicking you into the highest gear for economy reason IDK how many cars you can engine brake in without moving that gear selector down which sooooo many people don't understand the concept of.

They rigged the car,just like 60 minutes did to the Audi 5000.

The Germans are afarid Lexus will take over their market just like they did in the U.S.!!!!!!!

Maybe the Euro LS gets a different braking system?

well if the picture above tells us anything, its that the test was done on a wet testing track, with sprinklers.

brazilian...LOL!! you mean PORTUGUESE??

The European LS has a different braking system than the North American one. The North American LSs do fine in tests.

It is very suspicious that Lexus would AGAIN send the publication a faulty car. Lexus is not perfect, but they are also not simply this careless.

perhaps the LS comes with crappy tires? brakes are not the primary systems of stopping a car.

Or Wheels!!!!!!!!

Why cant we just agree this thing was designed to cruise softly and whisper along quietly, not deliver anything even close to sport, fun, or dynamics. Considering the tires it rides on and how soft the suspension is tuned, of course it's going to brake as long and as dramatically as a bus.

Maybe this supposed ls-f coming in a few years will actually stop shorter than the average SUV.

Dear German-only fanboys,

So, when something like the IS-F gets a great 0-60 time in a review you guys say "Well, that was just one test!".

Shouldn't your same logic apply here? Don't the majority of LS reviews state the stopping distance isn't anything to brag about, but at the same time not declaring it as "dangerous"?

Thanks,
Answer

answer,


In more than one test the Lexus has not performed to acceptable levels in braking. Passive safety is important, but I believe active safety is of greater imnportance. Brakes are part of active safety systems and therefore should be weighed with differently. The differece between 6 to 12 ft of stopping distance is alot. Especially in the real world. The LS is a very safe vehicle in the passive side of things, but in regards to active safety it doesnt offer that much. This is where the European cars excel the most. Handling, braking, balance, acceleration are always put towards the forefront of safety.

One may not cars about 0 to 60, until that person has to accelerate from a dead stop into traffic that is going 50 mph +. Then how fast a car takes to get up to speed is important.

How fast and well does a car brake from speed? How many times have you seen while driving that a person is cutoff and then they slam on the brakes. The braking fade and speed of the brakes determine whether a car slams into the back of another car. Also, with very good brakes allows the driver and options to stop and swerve. Without good brakes or brakes that fade fast, a person wont have as much time or options.

How important is weight balance? People on here always poke fun at BMW " magic feel ", but think how important weight balance for a car is. When a person has to swerve to avoid something or someone on the road at the difference in how the car behaves is drastically different based on how the weight is centered. A Nose heavy FWD car will dive then lift creating a top action which results in potential for a spin. A balanced car moves around its axis, thus providing more confidence that the car will go where the driver wants it to.

But if you look up both the Merc S class and the LS on Road & Track, you'll find that the slalom speed between the two is less than 1 mph.

The brake "feel" for both is similar as well they say.

You would see that the braking performance does differ between the two. The S class performs better, but does so with larger discs and wheels.

Until the LS perfoms as well as an Enzo, there will always be room for improvement. But, that does not mean that the LS and its braking performance make for a "dangerous" car as some on here love to state.

Unfortunately, old fashioned things such as not tailgaiting and just paying attention matter most when it comes to real world braking performance.

Answer, that is one test. in 3 other tests the braking difference displayed by the Lexus LS where alarming at best. Slalom speed doesnt really show body control. Have you driven the LS460 and the S-class Benz? If so you will notice how the LS has alot of body roll, even at low speeds, thus not providing as much confidence for the driver when having to avoid the idiot driving in front of you. The Mercedes behaves more civilized manner. The S-class is not in the same league as the BMW nor Audi. Both of those cars are very poised and helps a person feel in control.

MotorTrend tester remarks of the LS460
""When dodging in and out of traffic, the LS 460's relatively loose steering and softened suspension made me feel detached from the road. While admirable on rough patches of highway, this 'floaty' feeling didn't inspire confidence when attempting nimble lane changes or fighting for parking spots."

Long Term Arrival LS460 60 to 0 120 ft ... which is pretty good. by MotorTrend.com

Car & Driver ... 70 to 0 came up at 209 ft. This is not so good. Actually, that is very bad. A quote about the Braking from the Article..
"Start pushing, and the all-season tires on our test car (performance tires are an option) howl persistently as it leans through turns. Those tires don't help stopping distances, either; we measured a pitiful 209 feet from 70 mph, 30 feet longer than an LS430. "


Road & Track December of 2007 ... 60 to 0 in 143 feet
That is horrible. And then this bad review after a year or so.

But then I could post this from Popular Mechanics:

"Instead, this all-new chassis can hold the road with the same poise as its German rivals. This is the first Lexus flagship that's actually fun to drive fast. And fast it is."

Or "The LS 460's brakes are powerful, though, and have no trouble stopping this big car." from cars.com

Even: "The other dynamic element that troubled us was the LS 460's brakes. In stop-and-go traffic, the electronically controlled four-wheel discs are grabby and abrupt and inserted a slight hiccup into an otherwise suave progression down the road. We didn't dislike them nearly as much during our tests, however, when they exhibited negligible fade and short stopping distances. From 60 mph the Lexus stops in just 128 feet, which is almost as short as the Mercedes S550." from edmunds.com

You say one review doesn't matter, and I whole-heartedly agree.

This just in:

Seeing as how no other publication's opinions mattered to anyone at Autospies.com, every other automotive magazine and online outlet will shut down effective tomorrow.

"Auto Motor und Sport" will be the only source for automotive reviews in the future.

That is all.

Makes one wonder how the BMW 750 iL did in the Japanese magazine ????????

IN December of 2005 Road & Track did a 5 car comparison with the 745LI. 60 to 0 in 117 ft
80 to 0 in 203 ft.

In december of 2006 the LS460 60 to 0 in 143 feet
80 to 0 in 253 feet ...

Road And track ... Chauffeur Showdown ( 5 car comparison )

Lexus LS460 70 to 0 in 207 feet
BMW 750LI 70 to 0 in 176 feet

Um, just curious, but if it was the s class or some bmw that had the long brake distances, how would the autospies react????????

but it wasnt. If the BMW had really long stopping distance and constant fade issues, then that would be a problem. BMW thought doesnt have that issue.

lexusrox123,

Your question hints at the reason for 90% of the posts made here, and also this place's biggest problem.

Um, just curious, but if it was the s class or some bmw that had the long brake distances, how would the autospies react????????

oops, posted it twice on accident. oh well.

i pretty much think of lexus as japanese buicks.
to be fair, i watched an episode of 'test drive' with tom kendall and paul tracy.
they were driving laps in an ls 460.
i remember kendall saying that eventhough they had driven 7 laps on a road course, there didn't seem to be any brake fade.
maybe it was a promotional setup, or it could be a different set of circumstances.

THAT IS A INSULT TO BUICK to compare it with a Lexus. Buick is a much better car and is rated higher than the lexus in quality and performance by JD power and assocaites. INFACT BUICK HAS HAD THE # 1 RATED CAR AND HAS FOR YEARS!

that is a insult to BUICK

"Lexus LS fails Auto Motor und Sport braking test - AGAIN"

This is gettin' to be gawddamn ridiculous ;-(

XeroKool is the best PR person BMW could ever want to hire!

He claims brake fade is not a real issue in our everday world. I guess this is why Lexus does just enough to get by, where as BMW goes the distance to ensure that no matter how you drive your car you can rest assured your ass is covered..

XeroKool, BMW thanks you!!! You have proven that Lexus is and always will be subpar to BMW..

I would rather know my car can do both: provide me safety and luxury-------with the added plus of performance and the "over engineering" as only the Germans can do it.. And yes we that expect more do live in reality, we just aspire to a higher plane than do underachievers.

XeroKook should be your name.. Just goes to show that you make up your facts..

The 7 series has not been a sales failure by a long shot..

Since you quote facts so readily, why don't you go dig up some on the 7 series sales failure, and don't give me this year's quotes because we all know everyone is waiting for the new 7 to make it's debut.

I'm sure Lexus sales will take a nose dive after the new 7 hits the market. It will once again set the standard that Lexus tries but fails to emulate..

What a JOKE you are my friend.

I know that the 7 series has been a huge success and your infamous defense of Lexus' shortcomings compared to the competition is comical to most on this site, hence the deboosting of most all your comments.. Even some Lexus fans know you are full of SH_T !

Slap some Brembo's on there, and it's guaranteed to stop quick...it's the brake manufacturer, not Lexus, you dolts.

you define 'dolt'. lexus owners don't want to put aftermarket brakes on their 'ls'.
all they want to know is where it is parked.

You mean those comfy leather seats that are straight out of a toyota avalon and crack like hell after two years. I guess it is all the over stuffed fluff that cause them to crack. My grandma has a 1990 buick lesabre that is more comfortable than the lexus and the seats look better too.

Nice poser kraut_master2, we all know you are really XeroKool...

How LAME!!!

Just goes to show Lexus really needs posers to promote their inferior cars and suvs...

What a Joke!

XeroKool aka kraut_master2

Just wanted to save the rest of you guys the trouble of responding to the lame comments this dude puts on here.

He is the same guy!

I'm done with you and your unknown number of profiles XeroKool aka kraut_master2.

You obviously have multiple personality disorder with the same underlying issue which is to defend your defenseless Asian Crap Brand called Lexus...

Not wasting any more of my time on such a loser!

"The Lexus LS is starting to outsell the BMW 750 and Mercedes S550 in europe."


Link please.

Because the LS is barely a blip on the radar here.

YEA If that is true for Lexus out selling Mercedes in europe for a month that shows Lexus is strong (what ever) and if they did they out sell Mercedes in Europe I bet you they under cut their prices and where giving it away.

I bet you do not know that the Lexus and Toyota in Japan is sold for more there then it is here in the US all they do is under cut and lower there prices to compete. and give any one a loan bad credit good credit you can get a loan from Lexus and that is why they compete.

We all know the breaks on this Lexus aren't worth a damn, but I'm waiting to hear if this piece of junk has any rust problems like many other Toyotas.

EL34, do you see a pattern with XeroKool and kraut_mater2??

Check out the similarities in grammer and syntax.. Also, Kraut_master2 just started posting on this site and he follows the same threads with almost identical comments about Lexus and German cars.

Poor, Sad, Little Lexus Poser Boi.. Has to have so many profiles to defend his pitiful, loser, Lexus Brand.

XeroKOOL, you even respond back to your own profile to make us think you are two different people.

How Rich is that!!! LMAOROTF!!

You seriously need to get some mental help..

You could even do a commercial for Lexus entitled: "All about Eve and Her FairyTale Lexus"

"Actually lately I've come to realize that the proper way to communicate with some European fans on AutoSpies is to stop acting like a grown-up. I've been trying but it's hard. They sure know the trick to how not act like a grown-up."

Well, that's ironic, coming from you.

Add TheBoss to the list of profiles that XeroKool has on this site. XeroKool aka kraut_master2 and TheBoss..

Just info to pass along to all the real members of this site.

For your info XeroKool, not that it is any of your business, but to keep the facts straight:

1) Many credit cards I do have and many thousands I would have to spend to max them out.

2) I use bread crumbs when cooking gourmet meals, let me know if you need lessons.

3) My income is in the high 6 figure range, so I have no need to max out my credit cards.

4) I've owned more premium luxury sedans and coupes than you will ever see from a distant showroom.

5) BMW has been the best of them all.. Had four of them and starting on my fifth and so far has been flawless, much unlike the two lexus' I had that were pieces of sh_t....

6) I don't like to brag, but your ignorance deserves the truth for a change.

7) I hope the one 2002 Lexus ES300 you have serves you well, since it seems to be the only car you have, and you can't make rational observations on an entry level front wheel drive Camry..

8) If you don't like my comments that are the truth from experience then kiss my Ass.

Give it up, it's over with :-D

Kraut_master2, all the torque steering you receive in your 2002 Lexus ES300 must be giving you brain damage.

What a joke Lex,why do you insist you can mix it with the big boys, when you can't. GIVE UP you camry.

I have never heard of braking problems in a Lexus.

Case closed.

Another thing:

"Drive-wise, the LS is superb in a straight line, handling bumps and road wallops easily. Acceleration is brisk, hitting 60 mph from a standstill in 6.29 seconds. Braking is an LS strong suit. The car needs just 113 feet to stop from 60 mph, which puts it on a level with sports car thoroughbreds such as the Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (112 feet)."

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070223/FREE/70216008/1011



"Braking is Lexus's stong suit!", editor has stated. Now, you German car (75% posers) fans can cut the Bullsh!t and be real and stop being EL34.

btw, EL34 aka JesusChrist.

all this BENCH RACING is just silly juvenile stuff.

just WHO would buy a flagship luxobarge for track days?

0-60 and 60 - 0/120 - 0 times may matter to the BOY RACER crowd. but most buyers of LSs will NEVER be driving their cars at 10/10ths or even as much as 7 or 8/10ths. nor buyers of S-class or A8s either. (overage boys who insist on ONLY bmw 7s... ??? maybe, maybe not.)

brake fade is just about NEVER an issue these days in NORMAL driving. heck, i'm a relatively fast driver, and i have NEVER even activated an ABS system.

in fact, my philosophy is that a good driver is noticable by HOW LITTLE he uses his brakes! driving as far ahead as sight lines permit, and ANTICIPATING situations is the key.

i even read of a racing school for MOTORCYCLISTS, where one of the most challenging exercises was NOT USING the brakes at all. most of the juvenile boy racers getting their panties all bunched up here would NEVER UNDERSTAND this. but i do. one can drive at 7 and 8/10ths, and almost never brake! only at 9/10ths and 10/10s do superior brakes enable one to drive faster on a course.

grow up, whiners and nit-pickers. if you are unable to drive at a decent pace with just MINIMAL to NO USE of your brakes, you are a second rate driver.

Well i think nearly a year ago, there was a comparison done by a Japanese magazine of LS460, S550, 750i, A8, and Nissan Fuga(Infiniti M45). And Lexus topped the charts in braking category.

I think Xerokool provided the link.

So this from Motor und Sport braking test is quite amazing/surprising.

JUGNU

To the one person known as kraut_master2, xerokool and a few other profile names on this site. We all know you create many profiles and come back to boost your ignorant and childish comments. I think this is the only thing you have to get you off all day long.

Oh, and by the way, wipe your mouth I'm sure you have a few turds hanging from the corners of your lips.

It is unfortunate, I agree.

really, does this flame have to go on??? does anybody expect to change each others' minds on the whole Lexus vs. german argument? i'm getting sick of it!

If we want a real story and read real news we will need to go some place else. This site is only for trash talkers.. No car in history has received the Awards of the LS and look at the flame war it started with one simple post about brake fade. This site is a joke. No new news just reposts and comments from what seems like kids.

Lexus won the chauffeur car of the year because more people can afford an LS600 whereas the "real" chauffeur cars are the Bentley's, Phantom's, and Maybach's. Of course the three brands just listed are for the elite. Lexus simply doesn't cut the mustard.

For all the fan boys who will defend their beloved LS till their dying day it's best to hop off that bandwagon. Lexus wants to be like Mercedes in terms of prestige, luxury, and overall curb appeal but yet again they don't cut the mustard. You guys can deboost me but lets face it, no Lexus is in anyway a better car to drive than a Merc. Neither are true drivers cars like a BMW but even then Merc is still better than Lexus in that category. Lexus may be the marque brand in Japan and United States but the rest of the world still looks at Lexus as an expensive Toyota even though they are built very very well.

I'm a German fan all the way but I have a one year old Lexus LS in my garage. Yet it still doesn't beat my S550 stopping power. Not surprised since Merc's are fitted with one of the best brakes. They after all are the first to be fitted with ABS.

Anyways, it's a shame the LS fails a braking test. I'd expect them to do better. Oh well, in the auto industry every company has their ups and downs. It's just unfortunate Lexus in their breakthrough generation has to fail in such a test.

You really should be stripped of your "agent" status.

In this one silly, stupid, flame-filled post fest there are contradictory reviews stating the brakes of the new LS are either not that bad or pretty nice.

This website has quickly become even more of a joke. I think all of us have come to expect completely biased fanboy posts from the usual suspects. But when the people in charge here do likewise and post stories with the intent purpose of starting dumb arguments this place stops being a "news" site.

Well, as much of a news site as reposting information from genuine automotive news sites is capable of being anyway.

"Lexus may be the marque brand in Japan and United States" So the 2 biggest economies in the world don't have much respect in your eyes when they prefer lexus Agent 63?

And good God!

Bitchin about the LS wining the chauffeur car of the year? I don't think the award givers were implying the LS has the same prestige (read snob appeal) of the other brands. It just happens to be a good car to be driven around town in. Hence the award.

Why is it any favorable nod to Lexus here is met with more crying and complaining than a two-year-old with a dirty diaper?

This place really sucks, and with people like Agent63, the sucking will only continue.

Do have a good weekend though everyone!!!

WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR FACTS THAT THE LS IS GOD AMONG CARS! WHAT A JOKE!

MAN YOU TOYOTA LEXUS PEOPLE ARE STUBURN IF YOU LOVE THEM SO MUCH MOVE TO JAPAN! I MEAN THAT IS WHERE YOUR MONEY IS GOING!

The average age of a Lexus driver is someone near retirement.

They design stale looking blimbs as well :-/

German cars are wonderful. No car is perfect and it is all a matter of opinion what you like and what you will buy.

It's not very often when one product is so recognized:

Lexus' flagship model has held the highest ranking in J.D. Power’s Vehicle Dependability Survey for over twelve consecutive years,[7] and Consumer Reports has named the LS as the most dependable vehicle ever tested.[8] In 2007, international jurors selected the LS 460 from a field of twenty-eight contenders for the prestigious World Car of the Year award, declaring the luxury sedan to be “the embodiment of the Lexus brand’s 'pursuit of perfection.'"[5]

Not always a fan of Lexus but you have to look very hard to find a problem with the LS460.

CR, which arguably is the MOST OBJECTIVE and UNBIASED tester of autos, as well as an organization that performs the MOST COMPREHENSIVE bank of tests on their own private test circuit, with cars PURCHASED anonymously (vs. borrowed from the maker or distributor), gave the LS a 99 rating. the HIGHEST they have given any car. the vaunted german brands only rank in the high 80s, low 90s.

these were strictly a result of their mechanical ROAD TESTS.

when you factor in the RELIABILITY ratings as summarized from the 1.3+ million vehicle database, the LS pulls ahead even further.

The easy answer to who is an alias etc would be to have a look at the logs. All the ipaddreses are logged with each connection. Just look at who logs in from the same ipaddress

As for the breaks, I don't think it is Lexus's strong suit but all car makers have their week spots. Mind you I don't think they are terrible, but I don't think they are as good as some of the others.

I know they will Hide in Shame! they can give it they just cannot take it

SORRY Notjustlex JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS A GOOD AMERICAN CAR J.D. Power and Associates Reports:
Buick and Lexus Brands Tie for Highest Rank in Vehicle Dependability.

You know nothing about the car business or how it works. Lexus does not and has not offered rebates. I have worked here for 7 years and have never offered rebates. Toyota on the other hand does. A general consumer car will get rebates to clear slow inventory or sluggish markets. All auto deales have seveal bank that they can take loans too not just their financing. If a customer comes in with tarnished credit you can't just turn them away. Your statement that BMW and GMAC financing has to have perfect credit? WTF? That is one of the most ignorant statments I have seen on this site yet. GMAC will put anyone in a car that still has a heartbeat. BMW can finance anyone that any other dealership can finance. Most dealerships have about six bank where they can take financing business depending on the situation.

Your post just shows how uninformed the public is when they buy a car.

I agree 100% buick has done a great job bringing up their quality in the last couple of year but they have not been at the top of the J.D powers list for 12 years. No one was talking about Buick. Oh by the wasy Who has been at the top of the list since you brought it up? Go ahead you can say it, you know the name, it's on the tip of your tongue.... I can give you a hint it starts with an L.

Isn't lexus just a Japanese version of the Buick?

kraut_master2 WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT LEXUS ADDS ARE ON 24/7 ALL THE TIME THEY ARE PROMOTING ALL THE TIME SAME WITH TOYOTA THEY DO NOT SELL THEMSELVES.

and for rebates they give them all the time, I had some friends that got about 6,000 grand off there lexus because of rebates.

oh by the way did you know that toyoto motor credit will give any one a loan for one of their cars.

I know BMW motor credit will not give a loan to someone unless they have perfect credit and great income same with GMAC for Genral Mortors you have to have great credit.

No wonder Toyota and Lexus sells so much they will give any one a loan interest rate extremely high however.

(kraut_master2) who do you think you are calling someone else a idiot because they do not like the car you like, what a joke, (kraut_master2) why do you feel you need to call names, You really must not believe in your lexus when you have to call someone else a idiot because they are voicing their opinion GROW UP!

Does anyone here remember a recent Motor Trend comparo test between a 2008 BMW M3 and 2008 Infiniti G37 and the the Bimmer basically conked out because it's oil temperature gauge was reading danger. Needless to say the G37 won that test.

The Test was the 335i not the M3, BMW, installed & retrofitted oil cooler on the automatic models (all ready on the manuals) the resolving the problem.

LS is suppose to be a luxury sedan that provides comfort. I don't think saying that it is a bad and unsuccessful vehicle is fair because of "sport brakes". If a person wants good sport brakes, buy a Ferrari or a Lamborghini or some other sport vehicle.

The German magazine Auto Motor und Sport

Consumer Reports, which arguably is the MOST OBJECTIVE and UNBIASED tester of autos,
as well as an organization whose AUTO ENGINEERS (vs. failed racer scribes) perform the MOST COMPREHENSIVE bank of tests on their own private test circuit,
with cars PURCHASED anonymously (vs. borrowed from the maker or distributor),
gave the LS a 99 rating.

the HIGHEST they have given ANY car. the vaunted german brands only rank in the high 80s, low 90s.

these were strictly a result of their mechanical ROAD TESTS.

when you factor in the RELIABILITY ratings as summarized from the 1.3+ million vehicle database, the LS pulls ahead even further.

to be able to make the above criticisms, i suppose Auto Motor und Sport's TEST PROGRAM must include repeated braking from high speeds UNTIL brake fade occurs. in the real world, only MANIACS would drive like that.

which mite explain the near MANIC criticisms on this ridiculous thread of the planet's MOST PERFECT car.

as Notjustlex said: "...you have to look very hard to find a problem with the LS460."

as Notjustlex said: "...you have to look very hard to find a problem with the LS460."

I use consumer reports to buy vacuum cleaners.
And I trust them for advice on washing machines.
Its very hard to test-drive those items back-to-back to compare.

The problem is they test cars as an appliance.
Yes, everyone agrees that if you want an appliance to get you from A to B, you'll likely be happiest with a Toyota product (or Subaru or Mazda or Nissan, which are all as good but sportier).

HOWEVER, if you like cars and enjoy driving ... well Toyota builds the best cures for insomnia. The LS is at the top of the heap.

I'm sure the brakes are adequate for the geriatric crowd who actually buy this car to pick up their prescriptions at the mall.

Diesel--

sure, you are THE expert on vehicles that put you to sleep. short of audi racers, there are few to NO exciting diesel vehicles.

FYI, cr employs AUTO ENGINEERS to test their cars. they are enthusiasts too, and even own sports cars, as was revealed in an article on one of these fora about just who does the testing at CR.

their language may not be as colorful as in C&D, but they are every bit as competent as drivers. part of the staid language, is using the terms "accident avoidance" capability rather than more graphic imagery the auto rag journos tend to use.

they rated the LS460 at 99 out of 100 possible points. the german premium brands only rated in the 80s and low 90s. buicks would likely fall in the 70s.

Why play games with the Toyota LS460 when you can buy a beautiful reliable Buick Lucerne?

Get with the program and the buy the Buick ;-)

I'd buy a buick over lexus any day. Of all the copying toyota/lexus does it really copied the buick best. Way to set it high boys. Market all you want but those skinney tires tell the whole picture.

better yet guys, why not buy a Chevy Aveo over a Corolla? with your standards of automotive goodness and taste, YOU TWO WILL NEVER notice the difference.

even tho' the Corolla is SO MUCH MORE CAR in ALL respects, and gets BETTER MILEAGE and durability to boot.

Toyota and Lexus models have poor braking performance against competitors. This is not the first complain. AMS has standard measurment system to evaluate braking performances.
Toyota should spend your profit to improve active safety!!!

Who wants to drive the same car as you EL?

This is the dumbest string I have ever read. I'm glad i drive a Jag. If I had to read all your Lexus comments all the time I might go mad.

Don't believe this article much, probably isolated model cases. This is one relatively sporty big body car w/ stock tire package, I drove one company LS 460 before, I'd say it's more of a driver's car than 750 because u can rest ur palm on the gear lever while changing gears, 750 doesn't have this or S class.

Unfortunately AMS test is exactly same with normal driving conditions. It happen that on highway to emergency stop from 60. I'm doing day by day. Sorry but it is true, when I drive Lexus or Toyota or german cars, there are significant brake performance difference. Maybe the people are driving like retired around you, but slow driving and sudden braking is the reality. In other hand not only AMS but other automotive magazines complained about weak braks of Toyota and Lexus.
Let you read the comparisons and you can find often complains about brakes.

Amen deepwater.
The end.

CR road tests actually rate toyota brakes among the best. the EARLY mediocre test results for the LS460L were easily improved by just using better TIRES. the BRAKES themselves were never deficient.

only people who drive like MANIACS can INDUCE FADE in a modern car. (brake FEEL is another matter, and subjective to some degree.)