WHO IS THE WINNER? Nissan GT-R vs. Porsche 911 Turbo vs. BMW M3- Think You Know?

For the record I'm not mad. And I am going to buy that issue RIGHT NOW.

More specifically, BMW biased. Though I find it "refreshing" to see GT-R not at top :)

Anyway, C&D's review is usually not worth reading.I regret subscribing it.

winner:Cant tell
each car has their merit and flaw

GTR - beast engine
M3 - Exterior
porsche - light weight

dlin- I regret reading your post. For all you retards who continuously believe c&d is somehow BMW biased, please refer to my post below. Or actually read the magazine.

agreed dlin! i'm starting to regret it as well. C&D as a whole are incredibly BMW biased it's ridiculous. if BMW made a turd, C&D would recommend it as a classy well manufactured item. they're a mess.

coool!

I am definitely not mad either. In fact I am envious, and perhaps intrigued as to what wonderful drugs where required to induce hallucinations severe enough to make an M3 outrank a 997 Turbo, or GT-R.

I've driven the M3, and have had ownership experience with the 996 Turbo and M6. The M3 is a superb vehicle no doubt, but hard number wise, it does not come close to either of the other two.

I have yet to read the article, but perhaps they were judging the cars more from a "tomfoolery" perspective, in that points were given for tail out hooliganism and drift-type shenanigans. In that case the M3 would be at an advantage...but if not, its not.

997 is the most recent body style of the 911....buddy

bulldogz, 997 is the project name for the current generation 911, just like the previous 3-series was the E46, and current is E92 (I think).

3 Series nomenclature--
E90 (sedan), E91 (wagon), E92 (coupe), E93 (convertible)

911 nomenclature from the last 15 years--
993, 996, 997

What are you even talking about? The M3 is on my list. Go back to bed.

what does rs4 got to do with this?....its obviously not in the comparrison as you can see smartypants!

This just shows that numbers arnt everything. There are other factors in car quality and driving satisfaction.

actually what it shows is that you can manipulate numbers to serve your purpose - true in car magazines and in real life. How'd ya think Bush got elected?

Can't wait to hear what MichaelTaylor has to say!!!

00J

p.s look above. -_-

Ouch... I have no idea how the M3 managed to win, but that's an achievement.

M53R ... i think it had something to do with the transmission clunky feeling

German engineering! Enough said.

you know that porsche is German right??

LF-A is a car for old people Mikey. Lexus never unleashed anything other than cars that offer the same experience people have when moving in an electric wheelchair.

youve never even driven it yet, bub!

At the end of the day I'd take a 911 Turbo.

Amen brother!!!

More interesting is that the 997tt wiped the GTR up in acceleration. As far as the M3, if you've driven one you know it has a terrible shifter, poor on center steering feel and quite frankly isn't that much more impressive that a 335i. My guess is that C&D wanted to be controversial and they sure did that. The reason the M3 "won" was because it's "price as tested" was so much lower (it got alot of points for that) and a bunch of things like trunk space/features and amenities etc.

BTW, the M3 outpointed the GTR and the 997tt on "fun to drive" - now that's just plain a riot. And it outpointed the 997tt in the "got to have it" category.

What nonsense.

nonetheless, the M3 is a great car - and if you can't afford the Porsche or the 100K GTR (with the stealerships markups), it's a great choice

Where/When did you drive the M3 and did you drive the coupe or sedan?

001

pcar4evr

I don't know what you are smokin' but it must be good, cause you sure are coming across as delirious. On one hand you knock the M3, but finish by stating what a great car it is.

If you haven't driven the 335i and M3 back to back, you really have no basis for the comparison. Haven driven the 335i, M3 and 135i back to back, they really are 3 different cars.

While there is a certain shock element to the Car & Driver article, of all the auto magazines out there, I think C&D has the most credibility. If this article was in Motor Trend, I do think a lot of questions would have to be raised as IMO they tend to be more swayed by the advertising dollar.

00J

really? I think car and driver is the worst. They always lean german. I dont really trust anything they say but thats just what I have noticed.

i trust R&T reviews MUCH more than C/D.

C&D always leans German. Ok. So have you seen the 10 best list?

1. BMW 3 GERMAN
2. Chevy Corvette USA
3. Chrysler 300 USA
4. Honda Accord JAPAN
5. Honda Fit JAPAN
6. Infiniti G35 JAPAN/USA
7. Mazda MX-5 JAPAN
8. Mazdaspeed 3 JAPAN
9. Porsche Boxter/Cayman GERMAN
10. Volkswagen GTI GERMAN

I'd say, if anything, they favored the Japanese.

I also think C&D is by far the worst. It is the only car mag I don't subscribe to.

ohh so that will be a must read article. Can't wait to see what was their criteria for points...etc.

JUGNU

Can there really be a winner when there are no losers?

All these cars kick major ass.

+1

Just another C&D way to sell magazine by comparing apples and oranges.

Maybe next time they should compare a SL65 AMG to a Lancer Evo and I can already see the result, "Overall, comparing pricing and drivability, Lancer wins hands down".

I laugh everytime when I see they use the "got to have it factors" or "personal preference factors" on these comparison test.

Well, at the end, C&D just another bathroom reading for me when I do my number 2.

Couldn't agree more!...especially about #2. There really is no loser in that stellar group and it just boils down to what you want out of a vehicle.

I agree with pcar4evr too in that they wanted something contraversial, much like 001's articles. The GTR has been spanking everything in site and winning praises in EVERY test, so why go with the flow, right???

Do you actually believe that a comparison between a 30K tin can like the EVO and a 180K Mercedes AMG is somewhat similar to the comparison between the 55K BMW and 70K GT-R??? I hope you are joking.
The BMW M3 is a better car than the GT-R and that's no surprise. I said it before and I will say it again. The GT-R is the most overrated car of all times and the only cars that it should have competed with in the first place are the other boy racer cars coming from Japan like EVO and STI. Funny that you and other Japanese car fans didn't think that a comparison with a Porsche is inappropriate when the GT-R won.
All the enthusiasts felt offended when this cartoonish boy racer car won comparisons just because was a tenth of a second faster than cars that offer a clearly superior driving experience and also much better fit and finish. But nothing counted anymore, the boy racer GT-R was faster and that was enough to put it in the first place in comparisons with cars that were better in every other possible way.
Now when somebody finally judges cars like an enthusiasts should, when "speed" is just ONE of the measurements of greatness in a car, the results are different. Even the M3 proved to be better than the tin can built in Japan, the GT-R. And for the ultimate slap in the face the luxury brand BMW offered a better car, for LESS money than a trash brand like Nissan offer theirs.

"Do you actually believe that a comparison between a 30K tin can like the EVO and a 180K Mercedes AMG is somewhat similar to the comparison between the 55K BMW and 70K GT-R??? I hope you are joking."

he's being sarcastic, if that means anything to you. did you read his first sentence? jeez, what a badge whore.

Are you slow or just pretend to be slow?

deboost me if you like, but Im not the one who can't understand sarcasm or saying stupid things like "tin cans" when having no prior experience about either car.

and don't be angry if you can't admit it.

The 997 is much better looking IMO; it isnt gaudy. Both the M3 and GT-R have little gaudy trinkets that are unessecary. Im really starting to dislike the M3 design, and the R34 GT-R is MUCH better looking than the R35. The R35 isnt as classy as a Porsche and the new M3 looks too much like a boy-racer's car. Performance wise, i like all of these cars.

Agent 001

I own a 997tt and a 335i - my BMW dealer let me have a M3 coupe (was thinking about trading in the 335i for the M3) for an extended test drive. I did not find the difference between the 335 and the M3 that significant, other than the screaming V8. But compared to my turbo? lol

then you didnt really drive the M3. There is a huge difference from the M3 to the 335. Even installing a Dinan Chip and Dinan Exhaust, the M3 blows the doors off the 335. If you drive only 35 mph, then I could see where you didnt notice anything different. If you actually drive the car and push it, then how you can not see a difference is beyond me or anyone else.

Sure the M3 is an outstanding vehicle, but I believe this articles is biased and inaccurate

Too bad the 911 Turbo and GT-R will spank the BMW M3 in every acceleration test, handling test, track test and any other performance test that uses numbers to reach its final conclusion, not opinion.

C&D is the most BMW bias magazine there is.

Actually "Nut" performance numbers have shown the M3 to be quicker through the corners than both the Turbo & R8...However the GT-R's handling truly is on another level, almost that of a GT3 RS's capabilities.

wow what a complete joke. i always knew car & driver and autospies shared some degree of bias towards BMW but goddamn...thinking a M3 can take on the 911 turbo or a GT-R is funnier than saying bush will get elected again. every non-bias car enthusiast knows the 911 turbo and GT-R will hand-chop the M3's @$$ without even getting near the redline.
this shouldnt get anyone mad nor should anyone take it seriously. there were numerous tests done to these cars along with the R8 and i dont recall the M3 even coming near the top spot. yeah the m3 is a great car but the GT-R will murder that thing like a bug to a gorilla.

You just took the words right out of my mouth.

I'm laughing harder now since I'm reading the "final Results" of how M3 beats GTR and 911. M3 bascially took all the points because of "rear comfort"??

Since when do I bring my kids or my in-laws when people drive these cars? Is not a freaking sedan!!!

Another reason this magazine is only good for when I do my number 2.

I'm a big BMW fan but I can't see how they gave the nod to the M3. The GT-R will destroy the M3 in every performance measure. These are performance cars, aren’t they?

Car and Driver is now what I consider to be a crap magazine. Their BMW bias is sickening. Maybe I should read the article first before I say that :-)

So when you are shopping for a performance car you just take the car that has the best performance numbers without even driving it??? How about built quality, driving experience, feel, "details" like that? How about the real street performance which is different(and more important) than the numbers you read in a magazine. A street car no matter how fast, is still a street car and in a street car numbers are ALWAYS secondary to the driving experience and built quality. If things would be different we would all drive around in a Dodge SRT4 stage 3 or a ...GT-R.

I'd say that the Porsche has better build quality than the M3. Porsche is rated higher than BMW in reliability ratings. As Nice as the M3 is, it is still based on one of BMW's lower offerings (3-series). The porshce and Nissan don't have that problem.

I've never heard of a problem from both the 911 turbo let alone any porsches or the and skyline gtr, unless if either were modified.

If price would have not been part of the equation the Porsche would have won followed by the BMW and at last by the poorly built boy racer GT-R.

haha, this is some funny sh*t. So what happens when these M3 owners get smoked at the track by these 2 superior cars? They say " but car and driver told me I bought the ultimate driving machine, I cant lose!" ROFL...although as a daily driver the m3 is a logical choice...but when your buying true sports cars logics out the window and speed is king!!!

how is it that the slowest car is the best? Watch this video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hjwJl4t-DF8

and decide for yourself.

fast is fast no matter what its called.

Fast is fast kid but a fast car is not necessarily a great car, sometimes is just that....a fast car. The Dodge SRT4 and the GT-R are good examples of fast cars that can function only as boy racer cars and never make it to the status of being great cars.

lots of these "boy racer"-cars are owned by people who know more about their cars than middle-aged millionares who buy a ferrari or porsche, not knowing what the displacement or hp of their cars.

"...GT-R are good examples of fast cars that can function only as boy racer cars and never make it to the status of being great cars."

its not a great car? why? it doesn't have a fancy name like porsche or bmw? like I said, it doesn't matter what the name is, it can be a great car.

Ferrari and Lamborghini are incredible super-cars NO matter who drives them. Of course you are going to find people with money and no automotive knowledge that drive these cars but how is that important in this equation? How is that affecting the quality of these cars? Cars like Ferrari and Lamborghini remain the best money can buy because they are designed and built by the best engineers in the world. If you honestly believe that the GT-R has anything in common with a Ferrari or Porsche other than performance numbers you are completely lost.

Ferrari & Lamborghini are all about performance. They are high performance cars that can't be used for everyday driving and beak down alot. So if the GTR can match them in performance I would say they are in the same league. The main difference between the cars is your preference for looks. Ferrari and Lamborghini have amazing designs.

In any case, this is not a good news for Porsche. They don't have a good product coming out in the near future. So, I think, maybe, lower their HHHHight prices is a good option.

Everyone who has subscribes C&D know that they are a BMW bias.

Of course every major auto mag of the world are wrong because they know that GT-R is the better car.

This victory validates the M-division credo of:

1. Naturally aspirated engines.
2. Rear-wheel drive.
3. 50/50 front/rear weight bias.

The M3 V8 may produce at least 160 less hp than each of its rivals, but this proves that on-paper numbers are deceiving. An engine must never, never be faster than the chassis of a performance car. So says the book of M.

I think you ment 60hp less

Yeah 60 hp. My bad. You get the point. :)

Interestingly the BMW 3.0 twin turbo straight 6 beat the BMW 4.0 V8 in the int'l engine awards!

Another extremely controversial topic waiting for flame wars to happen. Don't even bother commenting on this as the Nissan, Porsche, and BMW loyalists will back their brands respectively.

These 3 cars are spectacular in their own right.

Porsche - enough said
GT-R - has proven to be a great car and as usual great value for the price. Can't beat Japanese pricing.
BMW M3 - lives up to its hype. Sounds great but the looks are subjective.

Truth be told. I'd be happy to own any of these but I would still get a 911 Turbo because I love the wide hips and the iconic Porsche look. Of course it's in completely different price ranges but the other cars are NOT duds!. STUDS all around.

the looks to every car are "subjective" other wise good comment......

Regardless of the outcome, I think it's great that we have 3 awesome cars at different price points which all would bring a smile to our car loving faces!

This is how I rate these cars:

1st) Porsche 911 Turbo - tie

1st) BMW M3 - tie

2nd) BMW X6

48th) Nissan GT-R

X6? lmfao... what a crack head... once again EL with an amazing insight

what rates 50th?

so from what I am getting from most bias people here is that if it was

GTR in first-it would be expected, BMW sucks, Porsche sucks.

BMW in first (as is the case)-Autospies is bias, C&D is bias and not a trustworthy source.

Porsche comes in first-Autospies is bias, only posting german stuff, C&D is bias

So from what I'm getting, most blind fanboys here will not except anything less than what they want to happen.

Well thanks for proving you're just another playstation dweeb who knows nothing about real driving. As good as the GT-R is, neither BMW or Porsche "Suck". However, since you've probably never driven an M3 or 911 Turbo or GT-R for that matter what are you exactly basing your comments on? experience?

From reading the post... And yes, I have driven the 997 turbo, not the M3 nor the GTR

Its called analysis of what people are saying...

Has nothing to do with the article or car...

I say who cares what rank they come in. I haven't read the story or anything, but if I had to choose, I'd definitely choose the GT-R because it'll chew the behind out of the M3 anyway. Plus, you'll turn more heads.

Funny thing about the whole thing is how you schmoes argue through it all. It's like a pissing contest for guys with small peckers.

Car & Driver's results are quite shocking considering the GT-R walked all over the 911 Turbo in the Road & Track comparison.

Thierry Henry we are simply asking for magazines such a Car and Driver to base their final rankings of these 3 cars on their measured performance figures and not price.

TO say that the 911 Turbo or R8 buyer would also be considering an M3 as an alternative to their Porsche or Audi is simply ridiculous. No one I know goes shopping for a $120K+ car and at the same looks at a $65K car as a possible alternative.

BMW is not that good - and that is clearly evidenced by the Porsche and Nissan's superior performance figures for every single category tested.

Even if it isn't that good it doesn't mean they "suck" right?

I think we need to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. In this comparison it's like comparing apples, oranges, and grapes.

I agree with you that a buyer looking for $120K + probably isn't considering a $65K car as an alternative.

Of course price is a factor. That's why they have price dependent and independent categories.

This test came down to price. the M3 was last in every performance test. But it offered similar performance for a much cheaper price. The Porsche was fastest and Most expensive. The The GTR was extremely fast and brand new and offered great handling but was ugly and the M3 was fast and inexpensive when compared to the GTR and Porsche . But for the price of the Porsche you could get a GTR and an M3.
T

Exactly my point Agent and Tauron. Sure, the M3 might be cheaper, but it is so much cheaper and its performance numbers everyone knew would not be nearly as strong as the 911 Turbo's or GT-R's and Car and Driver goes ahead and gives the M3 the win purely based on price which is not even a category that an actual person would consider when looking at the 911 Turbo vs. the BMW M3.

No one cross-shops a $120K+ Porsche 911 Turbo that can go 0-60 in 3.4 seconds and blitz the 1/4 mile in 11.7 seconds with a $65K BMW M3 that can't even clear 4 seconds to 60 mph and can't clear 12 seconds in the 1/4 mile.

Next time if Car and Driver uses criteria that people looking to buy these 3 cars ACTUALLY USE it would prove for a much more realistic and accurate description of these cars performance capabilities.

if thats your argument than you could also say people looking at the 911 turbo arent looking at the GTR because minus the rediculous markup.... Nissan is asking about the same price for the GTR as the M3 at its MSRP it is an amazing value it really has no direct competition not to mention the only thing that comes close is the Z06 vette price vs performance wise, the 911 turbo is very good but it took the price of an M3, and a GTR to get those numbers, and an interior thats not nicer than either

I have to disagree with you on the interior. Porsche's design is simple but that doesn't mean it's bad. Porsche can price their cars however they like and their consumers will still buy them.

If you say 911's are marked up too high then what about Ferrari's? How do you justify paying anything over $200K. Answer is you can't and you don't. People who buy these cars trust the name they buy and obviously has proven to be good.

The fact of the matter is this...

Porsche's make performance cars with a touch of luxury and is respected.

BMW's make sport based luxury cars and is respected.

Nissan to many are viewed as an eco-brand so they don't have that upper-hand on marking up a car to $150 or $200K. Of course Acura/Honda did it with their NSX but look how many they sold?.

Car & Driver no longer has any credibility left, this just proves that fact, not a single driver enthusiast to be found in that camp, they just went collectively loco... it's like when Roger Ebert gave "The Usual Suspects" 1.5 stars - when clearly, it was one of the best movies to come out that year, what a bunch of nut jobs :)

I'm gonna laugh myself silly to sleep tonight :) this just boggles the mind... sort of like when old W. won for the second time in 2000. There are things you just can't wrap your head around, like "abstract" paintings for example, that sell for tens of millions of dollars.

excellent comparison. the usual suspects is a thriller of a movie. ebert was an idiot. (just watched it again on saturday as a matter of fact!) i've had thoughts about this phenomenon a number of times lately. i think it's because some of these guys have been around too long. it's gone from being a joy and a pleasure to being a job. these folks at C&D aren't grading on how much pure fun these cars are to drive as much as they're grading on the aesthetics of the car. all they are now is an automotive specific version of consumer reports. this is why when my C&D subscription is up, i'm not renewing. this is based on a long time of annoyances, but this is the nail in the coffin so to speak...

"GermanNut" I don't understand your reasoning, if BMW isn't that good in your eyes then how is Audi so good? They're even further behind than BMW when being compared to the performance machine that is Porsche.

But now, Porsche owns Audi...

And what about the R8?

the GTR also beat the R8 next question about it

We're not talking about the GT-R.

I got this issue yesterday, have it in front of me.

Here is their reasoning:

"The voices in our head say: 'How could the M3 win against a GT-R and a 911 Turbo? Are you guys goofy? BMW jock sniffers! How could you let this happen? Impossible!' ... The extremist voices of the Porsche and the GT-R are just not present in the M3. ...the M3 doesn't skimp on supercar performance. It just happens to be dressed in a polished and practical package.

"As one test driver put it, 'The M3 is the car that the driver has the most control over.' Oversteer, understeer, and neutrality are all on the M3's resumé, but they're dependent on the driver's inputs."

They even said "the sound the BMW V-8 makes is due a Grammy."

"..the M3 doesn't skimp on supercar performance."

Wait a minute, if I buy an M3, I could tell people I own a supercar? hahaha that explains everything! those jock sniffers were delusional before the comparison even began! it's all clear now thanks :)

utahkid you aparently have no concept of what car control is.

Well, everyone has a different opionion. In the end though, I would have to say the GT-R dominates both cars. Each person has to choose for themselves though.

"As one test driver put it, 'The M3 is the car that the driver has the most control over.' Oversteer, understeer, and neutrality are all on the M3's resumé, but they're dependent on the driver's inputs."

Exactly why Car and Driver has lost its mind. The drivers who buy the Porsche 911 Turbo and Nissan GT-R want their car to go like a wild beast that, if controlled properly, can deliver driving thrills the BMW M3 dreams it could.

The Porsche 911 Turbo and Nissan GT-R were not built for understeer. The cars were designed to be uncompromising sports cars that put their drivers on the verge of shitting themselves as they get near a tricky corner but if handled properly, few cars can delivery such addicting thrills and the M3 would not even come close to being one of those cars.

MunichRob can you please explain how the Audi R8 which has defeated some variant of the Porsche 911 (including the 911 Turbo) in 9 comparison tests is behind BMW's M3 which has only defeated the Porsche 911 in one comparison test?

MunichRob you are telling me the Audi R8 with its upcoming 520 horsepower V10 (numbers are confirmed) is farther behind BMW in challenging Porsche when the 420 horsepower V8 R8 has already defeated the iconic Porsche 911 Turbo on more than one occasion.

Come on fan boy let me hear your reasoning on this one.....

many mags and testers have also said the M3 has better control than the R8 i fail to see how the R8 is even worth discussing here......i honestly dont believe that the M3 and GTR are in the same league of vehicle, the M3 wasnt intenteded on being a supercar it is ceratinly further upmarket than the car it replaces arguably a different type of vehicle, but ironically there are many test of it and cars that are twice as much as the M3 not just this one, and for the most part it holds its own. Im curious to see how it won this test, i can think of reasons why so im going to assume its not all out performance....

Car & Driver's goal: Let's pick the car with the best performance and driving thrills

Car and Driver's Assessment: Let's pick three cars which we know won't all be cross-shopped against each other (Porsche 911 Turbo vs. BMW M3) and let's pick one car that costs half as much as the most expensive car in the test (BMW M3 at $65K vs. Porsche 911 Turbo at $125K) and we know its performance doesn't even come close to the other two cars and give the cheapest car (M3) the win even though buyers of Porsche 911 Turbo and Nissan GT-R are specifically looking for a no-compromise, raw, hard-edged, sports-car designed to rip the track apart with no concern whatsoever for practicality in any sense of the word.

your wrong their buddy......a 911 turbo is by no means a no compromise, raw, hard edged anything......a 911 GT3 yes GT3RS yes, GT2, yes 911 turbo....that wasnt its intention....neither is the GTR...that is the beauty of the GTR it is easy to drive, extremely composed, well sorted steering, and its a big coupe. It really is amazing

I like how all the Audi fanboys have to talk about audi on every thread.....lame.

Just GermanNut. Don't pay attention to him... he says some strange things.

This is truly scary shit going on here. The BMW lovers are going over the limit, pathetic. The Porsche and GT-R are beyond even the M5, yet the M3 beats them??

This is disgusting to read honestly.

one interesting observation is that this GT-R was way slower than the one C/D tested earlier. Quite intriguing how that can happen, I'm talking 9 miles per hours difference in the trap speed.

It is a wrong question. Who will be a winner of 2nd hand vehicle in after 5 years (in 2013)? Because considering the durability, BMW M3 and GT-R will loose. The real rank can be:
1. 911 Turbo
2. M3
3. GT-R

M3 durability = put wrong kind of trans fluid, you'll be walking home :)

You shouldn't be monkeying around with the transmission if you are incapable of putting the correct fluid in it. That driver deserves to walk home.

for me they are all ( NO. # 1 ) The differences is a matter of taste and personality. I haven’t driven a GT-R before but I feel that it will fit my personality and satisfy my needs :)

This is all getting real stupid. I have made my mind up to where I will lay my hard earned money. These brain washing magazines have gone so low to bullshit the public that they are not worth the paper it's printed on.

Fully agree with you.

M3 is not in tha same league, otherwise we can include few other cars in this test. And if even God makes a car and they(C&D) compare it with a BMW,fot them the BMW wins. These thisng about BMW become realy ridiculous. And this part of the article about the ISF show how much Agent00j loves just to see how easily he can play with us. Let's open all our eyes and don't get emotional just because the Agents want it.

Everybody should check out Chris Harris' Autocar Magazine review. It's pretty clear, the M3 doesn't hold a candle to the GTR. He also uses a GT3 in this comparo.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bAYJLCrLjOM

...and the M3's brakes crap out.

I wonder how much money BMW pump into this magazine. Maybe they should call it BMW & Driver.

The most recent road test article of the FX50 they quoted "Infiniti's FX gets a makeover to become better. Faster, and stronger. But we're still not sure exactly what it is."

Hmmm..that's funny, when they review the X6, which I think is in the same category, they ended with the quote saying "After all, the heavier, slower, and half-as-capable Range Rover is an aspirational luxury SUV for many."

They sure can figure out a BMW X6 came out just 6 months ago but not a Infiniti came out around 7 years.

Go figure.

I'm realy surprised by this article. I start to beleive that C&D is in tight relation with BMW company.By the way i was hasitating between the M3 and the ISF but after trying both of them i've ordered an ISF. Here in Switzerland all ISF's are sold out and the statistique say that more 35% are old M3 and AM owner(mostly AMG owners).. Agent 00J or you're so immature to right this kind of articles or you're a BMW fanatic.

You too

If your concerned with purely accleration numbers then the M3 looses, but there are other factors for example the M3 had the best handeling, it had the fastest lane change time at 75.1 mph which was 3 mph faster than the GTR. When grading the cars they looked at all aspects of them, they looked at the vehical in terms of livability, the quality of the powerteran, the chassis, the experience, and how each car balances all of these aspects. I dont think its to far out there for a group of people to pick the M3 as there favorite considering its the most livable,best handeling, best engine,best chassis,most fun and engaging to drive, and its the cheapest! Sounds like a winner to me.

If your concerned with purely accleration numbers then the M3 looses, but there are other factors for example the M3 had the best handeling, it had the fastest lane change time at 75.1 mph which was 3 mph faster than the GTR. When grading the cars they looked at all aspects of them, they looked at the vehical in terms of livability, the quality of the powerteran, the chassis, the experience, and how each car balances all of these aspects. I dont think its to far out there for a group of people to pick the M3 as there favorite considering its the most livable,best handeling, best engine,best chassis,most fun and engaging to drive, and its the cheapest! Sounds like a winner to me.

Did you even read the read the article? The first paragraph they were talking about backseat and trunk??? WTF. Where is the "the quality of the powerteran, the chassis, the experience,"??

And when they talking about driving dynamic. "the M3 car that the driver has the most control over."

I don't you about you but if you watch this video http://youtube.com/watch?v=bAYJLCrLjOM
The M3 don't sure look like have any of the "the quality of the powerteran, the chassis, the experience" to me.

Sure did, I have the mag right in front of me.You obviously didnt read past the first paragraph. If you look at how they rated everything points wise it looks fair to me, even if you exclude the price and trunk and rear seat space the M3 still has a points advantage.

blueshirt, there more to judging a car than going really fast in a straight line, and of course the M3 will be slower around a track than the GTr and turbo it has 60 less hp and almost 200lbft of tourqe less than the other cars. Taking that into consideration, I think the M3's numbers are pretty damn impressive.

Oh, I do have it in front me and guess how M3 win with these scores. Rear leg room??? And the most points M3 took is Engine NVH. hmmm isn't GTR and 911 are turbo engines and M3 have a V8. Of course the M3 will have less noise and harshness!!!

And for mclaren428, yeah, the GTR do have the straight line factor but they also have the handling factor. For $8000 more where I can out run and out handle a M3, that is not very impressive to me. But badge whores always have an argument for their infatuation.

Blue..., are you retarded?
M3 gt-R Turbo points poss.
First category
VEHICLE.
1.Driver comfort 9 8 10 10
2.Ergonomics 7 9 7 10
3.Rear seat comfort 5 2 1 5
4.Rear seat space 5 2 1 5
5.trunk space 5 4 1 5
6.features 10 9 9 10
7.fit and finish 9 7 9 10
8.interior styling 7 8 10 10
9.exterior " 8 8 10 10
10.rebates 1 0 0 5
11.price. 20 19 6 20
SUB TTL. 86 77 64 100
Second category
POWERTERAIN.
1. 1/4 mile. 15 19 20 20
2.flexibility 3 3 2 5
3.fuel economy 4 4 5 5
4.Engine 10 6 8 10
5.transmition 9 8 7 10
SUB TTL. 41 40 42 50
Category 3 CHASSIS
1.Performance 19 19 18 20
2.steering feel 3 4 5 5
3.brake feel 4 4 5 5
4.handling 10 10 8 10
5.ride 9 5 8 10
sub ttl. 45 42 44 50
got to have factor 23 24 22 25
fun to drive 25 23 21 25
Grand ttl 220 206 193 250

even if you take out the entire VEHICLE category the M3 still has the most points.

"And the most points M3 took is Engine NVH" thats because the M3 has the best engine.

yes.it did have the best ride thats a plus, why are you trying to hold that against it. and the M3 is the slowest, but it was the best handling. So in a pure straight line performace the M3 was last, but there is more to judging a car than just acceleration times. What it does with what is has is impressive. Dude read my previous posts im just repeating my self now, and dont reply unless you have reasonable logic behind it besides.."but its the slowest" and "it got points b/c it has the best back seats." yeah it did so what, it can seat 4 people and it handles better than a gtr and turbo..thats awsome.

All of these cars are great Blueshirts, but what im trying to say is that i can see how the M# won after reading there reasoning.

If another magazine test thest 3 cars and come to a different concusion it wouldnt bother me in the least.The fact that the M3 is compared with these two supercars is a victory for the M3.

But i know whats bothering you...think of all the thousands of people who are going to buy this magazine and are going to see "BMW beats the mighty GT-R" . You prolly wont be able to sleep at night, but i will be sleeping like a baby with my issue of car and drive next me while im in my M3"dream world".

oh yeah and soon the M3 CSL will be out...and im sure it will beat the GT-r out right on the track..but then you will say its ride is to harsh. But some people will always bitch. So who cares you buy your GT-R, and Ill buy my M3 along with what BMW projects to be 100,000 other people. Which actually make the M3 the most popular sports car in the world. I guess im not the only crazy person.

All of these cars are great Blueshirts, but what im trying to say is that i can see how the M# won after reading there reasoning.

If another magazine test thest 3 cars and come to a different concusion it wouldnt bother me in the least.The fact that the M3 is compared with these two supercars is a victory for the M3.

But i know whats bothering you...think of all the thousands of people who are going to buy this magazine and are going to see "BMW beats the mighty GT-R" . You prolly wont be able to sleep at night, but i will be sleeping like a baby with my issue of car and drive next me while im in my M3"dream world".

oh yeah and soon the M3 CSL will be out...and im sure it will beat the GT-r out right on the track..but then you will say its ride is to harsh. But some people will always bitch. So who cares you buy your GT-R, and Ill buy my M3 along with what BMW projects to be 100,000 other people. Which actually make the M3 the most popular sports car in the world. I guess im not the only crazy person.

poor guy!

we need a car and driver/motor trend/road and track comparison. i used to think motor trend was a dead last publication, but lately car and driver has really been making the other two look really really good.

don't really care. don't read C&D years ago. Prefer UK's CAR and EVO.

Maybe an "isolated" case. In most tests, GTR came on top.

this comparisson is just hilarious and rubbish...how can you judge by some points such as rear seat comfort and space? did the gtr and the porsche recently get an optional 2nd row? no dont think so

wow, thats funny your not even aware that the 911 and GTR have rear seats.....in fact while the 911 rear seats useless, the ones the GTR are bucket seats it is a large coupe....

i know they have so called 'rear seats'...my point was can u actually count a rear seat made mostly for baggage use and not proper adult seating? those seats dont fit anything except maybe babies. and the seat in the gtr arent that large as u say they are

Why did my posts all get deleted?

Soon Autospies,C&Dand Edmund will compare the BMW with god.And believe me the BMW will win.

Not on AutoSpies.com it won't if still run it!

HE rules!!!!!

001

???

???

GOD would never lose out to a BMW on our site.

001

C&D might as well have pitted the M3 against 2 F1 cars with a conclusion like that, in the article. The F1 cars are faster, handle better, and cost more than the M3 but oh wait....the M3 is more practical.

"GermanNut" look, you can't use a car that Audi has not yet put into production to their credentials. The fact of the matter is BMW has considerably more raw, better driving, track oriented machines in their line-up than Audi. You can't argue that.

True the R8 has beaten the 911 on many occasions, but how many cracks at it have they given the M3 in comparison? Obviously not as many considering the 911 & M3 don't compete, but here we are with probably one of the only comparisons on hand between the two, & the M3 came out the winner.

I also looked up some performance numbers on R&T's website for the M3 & R8 & found the M3 to be the stronger athlete.

R&T's #'s

R8
0-60:4.3sec
0-100:10.7sec
1/4 Mile:12.8@109.8
Slalom:71.1MPH
Weight:3650

M3 coupe
0-60:4.1sec
0-100:9.5sec
1/4mile:12.5@114.8
Slalom:71.4MPH
Weight:3600

That is my reasoning to why I feel Audi is further from Porsche performance than BMW. However don't get me wrong, I recognize that Audi has a more desirable dream car on their hands than any BMW with the R8.

Also the whole fanboy thing bares no weight coming from you. The difference is I'll see an R8 on the road & hype it up to whomever I'm with, you'll see an M6 or M3 on the road & downplay it.

smh @ C&D silly magazine...
that youtube video is the truth...
godzilla is the baby veyron

I don't know what C&D were thinking by putting up two high performance road raging bull of cars like 997 turbo and the GTR to a very different car in M3. They just don't match up in their specs, respective performance targets, and surely customer target. M3 is a great car, but really it has no chance against the other two in any road surface when you want to go fast. If you want to put forth the agrument that M3 is better because it has a more pliable and livable drive, then i guess you are in the wrong blog, because this is no place to raise your buttock's comfort issues, but rather it is about which car goes faster, and which drives more responsively, and which is the funnest to drive. And both GTR and 997 turbo trump the M3 in big leaps in these regards. The C&D people would have been much better off comparing the GTR and the 997 turbo against the R8 of Audi, because all have similar objectives of dominance of supreme performance.
My choice is as follows:
1)GTR(simply because it is the fastest of the lot and is earning a reputation as being the poor man's veyron for it's ground breaking technologies, record breaking performance figures, and a reestablishment of the revolutionary raw charm that was first introduced by the previous Skylines)
2) R8 (It is the best looking car by quite a margin, but it's performance figures are not as supreme as that of the GTR(acceleration 0-60 in 4.2 sec compared to GTR's 0-60 in 3.5 sec), but it is better than the 997 turbo because of it's seamless engine and magnificent gearbox. I choose the GTR over this just because it is faster and for me that is what makes a car better).

3)997 turbo( A supremely talented and thoroughly well rounded car that we know as the king of the sports cars under the bunch of the supercars(ferrari, lambo, Koeinegsegg, Pagani), but the car has been around for some time now, even the 997 incarnation, and i would much rather opt out for the newer more exciting generation of high performance sports cars in GTR and R8).

My previous car was an M3 (of course not the new one) and I have always been fond of BMW; however, I am not biased toward a brand or any one manufacturer. I have also driven a GTR about 150 miles as well as a short test drive of the new M3. The GTR is very well put together and does not have the fit and finish or quality issues some of you are assuming it has based on it being a Nissan. It is extremely liveable day to day and the performance is almost unbeatable. I can assure you the GTR is in another league than the M3 and it is immediately apparent when driving both. It is obvious to me that C&D has different priorities than I have when analyzing a vehicle which is why you should take these comparisons with a grain of salt.

It amazes me that so many people compare cars strictly by their zero to 60 numbers or a few track tests. When it comes to tenths of a second performance differences you have to compare much more. I like the M3 because it combines luxury and outstanding engine performance. The Porsche is a great sports car and for pure speed so is the GTR. Nissan can make fast cars, but lets see where the resale value is on a GTR in 5 years. I wish the Porsche interior was nicer and had more features- they lag the competition and have for years in this area. Porsche does have awesome engines and exterior body style. The GTR and Porsche are also really 2 passenger cars with tiny rear space, which is fine if you are single or have 1 friend. For me, the M3 has the best combination of technology without going too far with extra gadgets or plastic like the Japanese do with their cars. I bought the M3 hard top convertible- truly awesome convertible for $69k. Someone tell me a better hard top convertible out there for that price??? Outstanding combination of performance with room for my kids or friends in the backseat and it is a blast to drive at any speed. Love the styling and it turns heads wherever I go. P.S> Sales of M3s in 2008 were up 50% year to year despite the terrible car market.....that tells you where people are putting their money!