Audi is not a premium brand......says BMW

False

I agree with you...come on people! S5 over CLK 320 and Q5 over that ugly looking GLK anyday. Audi does build high quality premium cars!

Since when does an Audi S5 compete with a Benz CLK320?

Current 328i and 2 time BMW owner. Still love BMW, but Audi is definately premium. Strongly considering for my next new vehicle. Audi is the only manufacturer doing both AWD and high performance. Strong appeal to me for that combination.

Yes BMW doesen't car about Audi

Audi comes out with the RS4 - bmw delayes the M3 and comes out with a very like model
audi coes out with Quattro, FSI, DSG, bi turbo A6, S4 and bmw follows but they don't care about Audi.

The X3 is a little plastic car and the Q5 is very upmarket but BMW customers will not step down.
Give me a break

sounds like a Cadilac rep. talking about Toyota/ Lexus in the early 80's

Willis, they're similar in price. That's why.

Americans are dumb when it comes to cars. You ever talk cars with some work buddies?

How else can you explain Lexus Succeeding in the US? The rest of the world isn't clamoring to Lexus like the Americans are.

So it's either the Americans that knows something the rest of the world doesn't know, Or the rest of the world knows something that Americans don't know.

though i don't buy lexus for the fact that they are less sport oriented. i disagree with the comment above

"The rest of the world"

you may want to rethink that statement, the rest of world?

put it straight: biggest auto market is U.S. 2nd: China, 3rd: japan, 4th: THE ENTIRE WEST EUROPEAN. (which is... what? how can you combine a number of counties and claim to be one market? or for that matter, should entire east asia combine together? but whatever)
Lexus is doing very successful in U.S. and No1 or No2 in Japan (Lexus launched in Japan in auguest 2005), and is doing extremely well in China. (Lexus launched in china in 2006, but it has already been highly successful, they are the MOST sold imported luxury cars in china). sure as a brand, lexus has trouble competeing with BMW and BENZ/AUDI in china (since they product bounch of 318,520, 730. C180,E200,S300, 2.8L A8, or 1.8L A6 for half of the cheapest Lexus in that class. but as far as the same engine size goes, Lexus out sold any german competitors in China, much like how it is in U.S. and it has only been in china for 2 years.

so, the ENTIRE WORLD doesn't seem to agree with you. next time, do your research before posting some huge claims. you are losing crediblity.

ghosthunter- please post your sources for your rankings so we all may share.

so i get massived deboost for not giving sources while the guy above me get massive boosted for not giving sources either, I wonder why?

I have no need to provide U.S. sales.

XeroK00L had a link to Japanese sales ytd. i could not open it since my working computer does not have japanese text installed, but i can check it later if you don't mind waiting, if you do mind waiting, go to the following link

http://www.autospies.com/news/Official-vehicle-sales-numbers-in-Japan-for-people-who-like-to-track-sales-numbers-28186/

up until march, lexus was 8 units behind Benz (without realasing any SUVs in japan, i think that number only count IS, ES, and LS), and was 1000 more than BMW,3000 unites more than audi. agnet, you may want to know your website better.

again, if you want total import cars sold in china, i can give that to you later when i am back.

but is there any need to do so? when a webstie is full of biased people who doesn't need a reason to believe anything (including even the agents), i wouldn't want to bother with fan boys and spend my time showing something you don't wanna to see.

so go ahead and believe what you want, just don't bust out phrases like "the rest of the world", because clearly if that's true, then you are living on a differnt world than most of the real people. people who really buy cars and not being fanboys on the internet.

I do agree that someone is more likely o go from a BMW to a Mercedes or vice versa than an Audi. And I do believe Audi has become a "true" premium car maker however, only within the last 8 years.

Okay I drive a BMW and at times I could be biased...I admit it...but I can't agree with this "spokesman's" view that Audi is not a premium brand. I see Audi on par with Mercedes as well as BMW. This guy either has his head up his ass or he really is working on his job security.

I think Audi has a come along way as a brand.....but here in America at least they are having the same trouble the American car companies are "Perception" not so much product issues(well everyone but GM out of the big 3).People dont see Audi in the same class as BMW or Mercedes or even Lexus. Despite the fact its cars are priced the same and they have a full lineup. Hence the A5 commercial where they admit to the fact most people only see thosw 3 brands as the car to get in the "Prestige" segment. Honestly I think someone would be more apt to go for a Mercedes as opposed to AUDI when deciding between the 3, or maybe even Lexus. Most people that buy these cars arent worried so much about engineering as they are prestige, and many people still see Audi as a deluxe VW despite thats not what all their models are

This article got me thinking...What is s "Premium" brand? Is it the Engineering, Quality, Reliability, Cost...or is it Perception? Funny thing about Perception is that it can't be fully quantified...unlike the other qualities that I mentioned. Perception is viral..in other words one person's perception can affect another person or a group of people. I guess in order to be classified as "Premium" you're most difficult obstacle will be the Perception factor. That's the same thing GM is going through right now.

In all german car magazines and tv shows they always compare the three with one another.

I can see how people could go for either an X5 or a Q7.

But once the Q5 hits, i bet X3 sales are going down. X3 is one UGLY miniSUV. *gags*

I agree, I have a friend with an '08 X3 and tried to like it, but each time I get a ride in it I find a new reason not to. Funny coming from an X5 owner. That car is a POS.

Strange article... It's the exact opposite in reality.

You only have to sit in a BMW and Audi back to back to realize Audi is better built and more premium. BMW's interior is just barely good enough to go into a taxi :)

Interesting comment. I find my 325i to be as well-built as any Audi I've sat in or driven. The Audis had admittedly nicer-looking interiors, but the quality was the same.
Audi is a premium brand. This BMW rep was talking out of the side of his neck.

BMW is right again, of course Audi is NOT a premium brand. It's basically an overpriced VW with some extra bells and whistles.

The real premium brands from Europe are Benz, BMW, Jaguar, Volvo and Saab. And from the US, it's Cadillac, Buick, and Lincoln. Japan only got Lexus, Infiniti and Acura.

comeon Saab and Volvo there if Audi isnt premium than those 2 certainly arent....the same with Buick and Lincoln America's only real competition in the luxury class is Cadillac no matter what they say LIncoln gave up competing directly with the Imports when the MKZ was released to me is more Ford's Buick than anything else now.

Are you kidding!? You said Audi is not a premium brand b/c it's an overpriced VW. . . . But you list LEXUS, Acura, and Infiniti as premium brands? Wow! You're a marketing person's dream!

Volvo? Saab?? Lincoln?!?! BUICK?!?!???

You're F'in nuts buddy.

Go back to PR school

Lenkun, you are full of beans. I just turned in a leased A6 Quattro and I can tell you that the fit and finish on Audi cars is superior to BMW. Audi's legendary AWD system with the Torsen center differential is also superior and has gotten me through at least one snow storm where the authorities closed the road behind me.
bMW tries to save money at the customer's expense by failing to include protective side moldings to prevent parking lot door dings. BMW's only advantage over Audi and Mercedes is BMW's inherently balanced in-line 6 cylinder engines.

"bMW tries to save money at the customer's expense by failing to include protective side moldings to prevent parking lot door dings"

Lol, again with the side mouldings. :/ BMW's current designs wouldn't look right with side-moldings!

My son has a new BMW for himself, and bought a new Audi Avant A4 for his wife.
His next car within 2 yrs:
Audi A5.

He likes the driving characteristics of the Quattro.

Your son should be safe if he's trading it in after 2yrs, headaches usually start when you have to foot the bill for those expensive unexpected repairs :)

I'm not at all fond of Audi, but I have to admit, they have vehicles that are very well assembled. The quality of their materials and the fit-and-finish are beyond reproach.
Shame on anyone who claims that they are not a premium brand.

If I were car shopping right now I would be looking at Audi and BMW. I would skip Mercedes, Jaguar, Volvo, Saab, Cadillac, Buick, Lincoln, Lexus, and Acura. Just one guys opinion...

Looks like the mentality of the BMW driver is shared with the company itself.

and i see ignorrance is still bliss.........

I agree. Infiniti seems confused on what to make. Can only use the F/M platform so much. From a distance I can see how Infiniti owners can be confused between the G and M autos. They have the same silhouette.

Seriously, go somewhere and play.

Dr550, you dont think the 3 and 5 have the same silouette? What about the new C class and S class? The problem w/ Infiniti's past was the each model looked so different from each, they had brand recognition problems.

that and they had crappy products the J30, the M30, the G20 i mean seriously

Why is BMW talking such smack these days? If Audi isn't a premium brand then what is it? Of course they have market share and are the more recognized brand but that doesn't make them any more premium than Mercedes or Audi.

I've got news for you BMW. In terms of design and assembly quality Audi trumps you.

Typically someone talks smack when they feel threatened. Need I say more?

And the latest JD Power Initial Ratings, Audi destroys BMW. That is a sign of premium. I guess the R8 is a "ecomonical" vehicle for under $20,000 then according this lame BMW PR guy. BMW should educate and train their personel better.

I never posted on this site. But this is absurd. Personallly I use to think BMW was the ultimate. No more. I traded in my M coupe for a Q7 (kid) over the X5 and havent looked back. BMWs interior if def chincy at best, although the do drive great. I think Audi produces a excellent product and people are def noticing

I would not skip Jaguar.With the new XF it is the best in it's class, Saying that the BMW guy is only saying that Audi is not a premium brand because he feels threatened by Audi emergence as a premium brand. And while Audi does not yet sell in the same volumes as BMW they are starting to catch up. No I think BMW is worried. Also Audi interiors are superior in every way to a BMW and Mercedes.

I can't believe somebody said Buick represents luxury

audis catch on fire. theres nothing premium about that...

"Just because Audi will price the car in the premium segment does not make it a premium vehicle"

- That is the quote of the decade. 100% accurate.

Typical BMW arrogance. I prefer the Q5 over the GLK any day. Audi interiors? Head and shoulders above BMW.

What about Audi engines? Are Audi engines "head and shoulders" above BMW engines? There's more to a car than the interior. When Audi realizes that they will finally become a premium brand.

I'll give you that, Audi engines are not know to be leading powerplants (save for the 2.0T). Nonetheless, I don't see Audi criticizing BMW for having a lesser interior and saying that they're not premium. It's the arrogance that's really distasteful. By the way, Mercedes' engines are not known to be great either, look at the latest C350.

^ MB shines with their big V12's

Audi shines w/ quattro and its impeccable fit and finish. If BMW wanted to attack Audi they should've gone after their inability to get electricals to work correctly.

The engine in the Q5 will be as good as the one in the X3 or GLK.

chewy is right, the Q5 is class-competitive. X3 has yet to get the new twin-turbo six. By the time it comes out they may have put the new 3.0 supercharged V6 in the Q5.

10 years ago I could agree, but no longer. Audi is def on equal "premium" ground. Mercedes does have a bit more of a Ritzy association. But quality wise Audi is there. Does any know of Audis catching fire??? or any modern car???

Yes I agree Audi is like Volvo and Saab, however i do respect some of Audi's work these last few years.

I think Audi is definately a premium brand.

Even the A3 can be loaded with pretty cool tech and luxury bits that sure are above what the average car owner of today has.

Factor in cars like the magnificent A8 and the sexy R8 and there is no question Audi is a major player in the premium game.

Plus in an era when BMWs and Mercs are rather commonplace, Audi's smaller marketshare actually benefits the consumer by making them more of a rarity (relatively speaking).

I would just like to say that BMW doesn't have ANYTHING in its lineup as sexy or desirable to me as the RS8. I guess that's not a premium product either.

BMW wish Audi's not a premium brand. lol

BMW Please look at your ass ugly 3-series and look at the 09 A4.

Like you said, only the coupe and convertible 3-series is acceptable. Most soccer moms buy the ugly ass sedan.

BMW have no style at all, quite right!

I think Audi is a premium brand, and that BMW comments are way too arrogant.

On the other hand, some people associate premium cars with RWD cars, in which case the comment makes some sense. Audi sells only FWD and AWD cars. While one could argue that AWD is great, purists still prefer RWD. And, if you count worlwide sales, Audi sells more FWD cars than AWD ones.

It is also true for other supposedly premium brands (e.g. Acura, Saab, Volvo) that just by selling a large proportion of FWD cars, they get considered a notch below those that sell mostly RWD cars.

There's no need for BMW to get uppity :-\

If my memory serves me correctly the old M3 engine had a boat load of problems. Thank god not mine. The new M3 V8 however nice, seriously lacks in the torgue dept. Thumbs up to the twin turbo 6. Thats is a bad A$$ engine, esp when chipped. There are pros and cons to each brand, but to say Audi isnt premium is plain stupidity. BMW isnt Bently. Although some people on here think it is.

wrong.....the previous generation M3 was actually listed as one of CR BEST used cars out of how many other German cars......so check the facts on that...

Wow...did you just reference Consumer Reports as vaildation of a car's worthiness?

That's like citing Wikipedia as a source for a research paper! lol

worthiness???? no i cited for reliability...the M3 needs no validation it is an M3 enough said. It was proof reliability that needed to be backed...

It must be false, no one at BMW would say that Audi is not a premium brand.

As i see it, Audi is the strongest competitor to BMW right now. MB is also but Audis sales keep climbing, faster than MB.

When talking quality i think Audi is behind, yes i know everybody or almost everybodt says different. But i own a BMW e46 316, and a friend of mine has an A6, the interior in the 3 year older A6 is looking very worn, my interior looks like new.

I agree with MPowerDK, I really dont think BMW would make a statement like that. Its just bad PR anyway you slice it. If it was said, I would assume it would be 1 individuals assement and not BMWAG as a firm.

Tell BMW to go make a supercar like the R8 and then start calling themselves a premium brand. BMW drivers are nothing but payment buyers who couldn't buy a coffee without financing it.

BMW made a supercar the M1 30 years ago. But you a not intelligent enough to know.

But their most recent effort at a sports car--Z8--flopped miserably. Ironically, the M1 was also co-developed with Lamborghini, which is also the root of the R8.

BMWDVR..here are the facts
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24409
So relax yourself dildo. I assume your one of those people who is always right???

No way this is true, Audi is highly competitive in Europe and other markets, the US seems to be the only market where Audi is treated as a second class citizen. I just can't see a statement like this coming from BMW when they don't even have a real R8 competitor, and please don't say M6. I am a BMW owner and I am drooling over a fully loaded A8L, just don't want to spend the coin.......

Stone

This is ridiculous. I myself drive a BMW, but this is just totally stupid, and I am ashamed as a BMW driver.

that little GINA whatever the hell that is concept model was totally nonsense and I really don't see how Audi can be a non-premium brand, when so many people these days drive BMW more than the Audi cars.

BMW is becoming more like GM or Toyota and honestly, I think Audi and Mercedes-Benz are doing a lot better than BMW these days. I mean, why doesn't BMW build a frigging supercar when they can build those cheap crap like 1 series or SUV X6 which is utterly pointless?

The spokes-hole would have to repeat it 20 more times to make it true. PR-101

then you don't know Audi very well. Premium is also achieved on the racetrack. Currently, Audi has one the strongest and storied motor sport history. A true sign of Premium. Where is Lexus in all this. Americans really are dumb! Sorry, it is ridiculous to state Audi is not premium when the 7-Series has never won a comparison against the current A8L in the last 4 years. Hmm....

BMW can have any opinion it wants, but they don't get to pick the facts.

Really, is that why the new RS6 will be running all over the M5 (oh it already has). The R8 kills anything from BMW. There is not BMW that matches the R8 engine or execution, and a V10 is on the why. Audi engines have won numerous awards and not only the 2.0T. You guys have no facts about Audi, yet you think you can actually make a serious comment.

Can BMW explain how the Q5 is less of a "premium" product than the MB GLK or the X3? I don't think so.

That's the irony. No one from BMW can explain, nor any bipedal on earth can explain why Q5 is of lesser premium - hence, it must be pure trash talking with no substance.

BMW and Mercedes> audi
Volkswagens cannot compete wit BMW or Mercedes

No.. but Audi can since Audi is NOT VW...

Audi's are not VW's.They may be owned by VW but Audi's(except for A3 and 2.0 turbo 4) are very different cars.They are also built in different factories then VW's.Audi absolutely competes with Mercedes and BMW's. The new A4 is a much nicer car then a Mercedes C class.Interior wise Audi clearly,clearly have nicer interiors. I will give in to BMW's on the engine front. However Audi is not far behind.Oh one more thing.What car from Mercedes or BMW competes directly with the R8 from Audi?Answer there is none.

If find this post interesting. And I apologize for inadvance for the slightly fuzzy memory about the date this article ran. But there was an article in Automotive News (late 2006 or early 2007) about this very subject. The CEO of AUDI went to every person in the building and asked them one question. Now the interesting part comes from, these people actually work for AUDI.

He asked them did they consider AUDI a luxury car manufacturer. And not one person said yes! They have a lot to prove to themselves let alone consumers.

Ok, you win with that stupid comment. Why don't you take your head out of your a$$ and to go to Sonoma California and experience the Audi Driving Experience at Infineon. You will quickly learn what true premium is from the accomondations to the amazing track time. You are tool 1badman.

His comment can actually be political. Within Germany, BMW needs to partner with another partner for its future survivial. They have been coaxing up to MB lately. This could be a comment more for MB than Audi. With Audi and Porsche merging, BMW has no chance against such a jaggernaut.

Amazingbimmer-amazing idiot. You own that title where it proudly loser.

I'd check your financial figures on that one tool. Hate to burst your BMW lovefest, but MB has a higher rate of return than BMW as does Audi. What was that hit BMW just took for over-inflating their cars' worth? Oh yes, $400 Million is the number. Over-hyped and over-rated.

Audi's interiors sure look more premium than BMW's but Audi, BMW and MB are all premium no matter what the argument is here.

All I know is that the S5 rocks...BEAUTIFUL! May not be the fastest in segment but best on the eyes....

premium brand or not, I don't care. I have ditch BMW twice and went back to Audi. I am driving a BMW now and will very likely go for a Q5. I am just waiting for the deatils, pricing and expected delivery date. Sorry BMW, I am just a stupid consumer in Hong Kong who cannot even pronounce the full name of BMW correctly. Whatever its called, I just buy cars that I like.

BTW, shouldn't premium brand provide premium build quality ? I don't see the 'premium' with my BMW vs the Audi.

For once i agree with bmw! Audi's are nothing more than tarted up Skoda's and VW's...

You've got it wrong actually, Audi's are more like down-market Lamborghini's and Bugatti's.

They could also be considered more downmarket Bentleys and Porsches.

Funny how nobody ever mentions the upper echelon of the VW Group. You'd think that the fact that they're even there cancels out the lower-end completely.

I think Audi makes premium cars. But are the a premium brand? Compare Audi with how BMW or MB (or Lexus) treats their customers when they bring their cars in for service. Comparing the ownership experience of a BMW or Mercedes-Benz with that of owning an Audi, I think Audi is making headway, but they're still not quite up there yet. Where I am, they've separated the Audi dealerships from the VW dealerships and are currently upgrading the Audi dealerships and service centers to look more "premium" than a typical VW dealership. Hopefully, the customer treatment is improving also.

BMW and Mercedes-Benz dealers are very inconsistent. Like Audi, you could get a good dealer or a bad dealer; when they're bad, they really are very bad. I have a great BMW dealer but the other one in my area is terrible. The same is true of the two Merc dealers--unfortunately, both the good BMW dealer and good MB dealer are further away from me.

With Lexus, it's pretty much all good. However, I don't buy my car for the dealership experience. I buy it for the driving experience. Really, the dealer is just fluff to make you feel important.

OK, even if the Q5 isn't premium (which it very much is!!) That BMW X3 piece of ugly garbage is no better than a KIA, hell I'd almost rather have a KIA than that horrible disproportioned piece of wannabe crap!!. It is the ugliest "premium" mid-size/compact SUV around with one of the cheapest interiors you can find. I honestly think that the X3 is the worst car in the entire BMW lineup, and the "spokesperson" has the nerve to say that a Q5 is a "step down"? I love all German cars, but come on, let's get real!!

You state that the Q5 is very much a premium vehicle. How do you know? You want "get real", so... How Do You Know? And, to have such vitriol for an unverified quote is silly.


"U.S. market introduction of the Audi Q5 will be the first quarter of 2009." www.audiusa.com

BTW, the X3 recently won a comparison between the little Acura and Rover. The X3 was voted the most reliable car on Germany's roads by the largest automobile association in the world, the ADAC, and the X3 has now won the prestigious "Yellow Angel 2008" award.

Ok, here we go, the reason I can tell is that all Audi's are built as premium vehicles. I would be willing to put money on the fact that if you were to put a BMW X3 next to the Audi Q5 and asked anyone which they would prefer, they would choose the Audi hands down. And not just on looks alone, but on practicality, engine choice, power, handling, etc.

My wife had a 335 convertible and it was nothing but trouble, the roof never worked, all of the electronics would malfunction all the time, and the plastic interior just wasn't cutting it. The thing drove like a dream, but the fact that it was at the dealership for repairs and "tweaking" more than it was on the road, made it very much NOT a luxury automobile. We traded it in for an S5 and couldn't be happier. Already 35,000 miles and not a single issue. Wish I could say the same about the 335…

And as far as your "Yellow Angel Award" goes and your bitching about and "unverified quote" how's this...

Audi has been awarded with the Yellow Angel for the Best Image in Germany. (January 2008)

Audi has taken first place in the AutoMarxX image and brand study by Germany’s ADAC automobile club. Rupert Stadler, Chairman of the Board of Management at Audi, accepted the coveted “Yellow Angel” prize today in Munich.

“Our product and quality initiative continues to bear fruit. This important award goes to our entire Audi team,” Stadler said at the award presentation. “Without their contributions, our success would not be possible.”

Reasons for the success of the Audi brand, according to ADAC, include technical advances and an astonishing variety of new models along with careful brand management and the use of a consistent design language. This has allowed Audi to develop into a premium brand that represents high prestige.

Audi took one of the top positions in almost every category measured, and bested the competition in particular when it came to image and technology. The brand was also among the front-runners in the areas of efficiency and quality.

Go back where you came from X3 Lover!!!!

Audi:

Just because your cars are heavy and complicated, that doesn't make them premium.

That's Audi talking to themselves I assume.

i look at Audi the same way i look at Lexus = premium VW & toyota...
like most, when im car shopping, i will look at an s5 vs 6 or m3 vs rs4...

For anyone here that owns an Audi....the it feel heavy with Quattro?

typo

Does the Audi feel heavy with Quattro?

I would be hard-pressed to describe any modern luxury vehicle as feeling "light," so I would have to say, no.

This comment from BMW is laughable, at least in Germany where Audis, BMWs and MBs are very common. It probably comes down to personal preference more that anything else but If I were choosing luxury I'd got for a decked out Audi over a similar BMW 9/10 times. If I was focusing on performance the BMW would be slightly higher on my list. Too imply that Audi doesn't make premium vehicles is just outlandish. I suspect this must be a spokesman for Audi North America and not ROW.