Car & Driver Says Hyundai Genesis ON PAR With Lexus-Is The Fix In?

Not that surprising in my opinion. Hyundai cars are actually pretty reliable, and they do not necessarily have to suck just because their cars are cheap.

And also, I think this car looks even better than Lexus IS. I have to say there is a future for Hyundai.

I agree. I think it looks much better than the Lexus.

You do know that the Genesis' design is based on a lot of Lexus styling cues don't you? As well as Acura and Infiniti?

it also swiped styling cues from bmw. (which make it uglier than the cleaner lexus models.)

but that's only fair, since bmw 'borrowed' hyundai cues in taillamps.

"it also swiped styling cues from bmw. (which make it uglier than the cleaner lexus models.)"

Hmm, Lexus cleaner and BMW ugly?

To me Lexus is boring. A Lexus could pass by and I would not even turn my head to look. Some BMW's I will at least look at and admire some of their styling.

Maybe the vehicle given to Car & Driver had the crack pipe option in it.....

Yeah but Lexus didn't come with a lot of baggage in the form of poor initial performance and quality. Hyundai has come a long way in the last decade. But it still has miles to go before it will be taken seriously as a Lexus contender and to do so it must distinguish itself in some way.

Everything about the car is banal. The styling, the performance, the luxury, etc. There is nothing that sets this car apart from Lexus except price. Price coupled with performance would have been good (think 2003 G35) but a lower price alone won't suffice. It'll be forgotten by the public after a year or so of sales.

Everything about lexus is banal. The styling, the performance, the luxury, etc. There is nothing that sets their cars apart from real luxury cars except price. Price coupled with performance would have been good (think infiniti) but a lower price alone won't suffice. They're forgotten by the public after a year or so of sales.

Actually, the price for a Lexus has gone up and is rarely a lot cheaper than European competitors. The IS-F vs. the M3, just for an example.

kut.

lexus is significantly less than german competitors in almost every case...LS vs S, IS vs 3-series, GS vs E and 5-series.

lexus is a VALUE brand. that's also why their sales are tanking right now. value buyers are tightening their wallets big time.

funny...that's exactly what lexus was when it began.

the LS400 was completely banal in every way except for the service experience. but it was much less expensive than competitors and attracted value buyers.

hmmm...sounds a lot like hyundai's strategy.

EXACTLY.

Lexus was a nobody before and it has become hugely popular here in North America. In scattered parts of the world Lexus is getting some recognition but it's still has a lot of growing to do.

Like Lexus, Hyundai has to strategically price their cars or else people will think it's an over priced Hyundai and perhaps not even buy it. They have to do a lot or proving to the consumers that they are a true contender. It won't be in the next 5 years that they will be respected or viewed as a luxury automaker but realistically 10-12 years from now. Lexus had to go through hardship so Hyundai surely will too.

It's always good to see another company making an attempt to grab the luxury market dominated by the Europeans. It won't be in our life time that a Hyundai will be the preferred choice over a Mercedes but they could make their best shot.

Sure their econoboxes but so was Toyota rebadging their Lexus models. Was it any different? NOT ONE BIT.

Go HYUNDAI!. Never say never. Hyundai could get their stuff together and make good luxury cars in the future. We had doubts when Lexus came out and look what they've become here. It doesn't mean Hyundai can't do something similar.

We put Hyundai down but we have to look at their figures and how they have grown under the radar. I've seen a lot more Hyundai's around over the past 5-7 years.

What growing Lexus has to do?

What does Lexus have to with anything? I'm sure you can read.

Aside from the obvious, Hyundai is the modern day company like Toyota back in 1989 who wanted to make luxury cars. Lexus inspired Hyundai like how the Germans inspired Lexus.

I know you probably think Hyundai who would pay that much for a Hyundai. Well not everyone thought a rebadged Toyota would have sold well but it did.

Seems like the rebagde Mini Cooper and the rebadge Smart is selling well also...

Good...good!
I welcome Hyundai's challenge.

Hopefully, this means that Toyota will back off...
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I get annoyed buy how some components in my Lexus LX and LS are identical to a Corolla. Additionally, it really pisses me off that the new LX couldn't be a little more different from the Land Cruiser (esp. the side profile).

I love Lexus, but I don't like how Toyota can be really selfishly conservative on their luxury segment.

I don't think you are a fan of Lexus. You say that you hope Toyota will back off, then you say how Toyota doesn't distinguish itself enough from Lexus. Something sounds a bit off there, if you are a fan.

no actually the DTS and Lucerne are related.....the STS uses a HO version of the Northstart......for the record, a RWD platform shared with the CTS/SRX, the DTS and Lucerne share a platform. .....As far as platform/parts sharing Lexus isnt the worst of the luxury brands the IS, GS,SC, and LS at least are a platform not shared with any American market Toyota vehicle. They arent like infiniti where they currently have 6 cars on one platform shared with nissan along with the same dashes in the murano and maxima as in the fx, ex, g35, and g37. While using the same V6 across the board from Nissan to Infiniti. Or Audi/VW group which are notorious for platform/part sharing overkill. On to this Genesis thing it is so ironic that Lexus fans talk about how Hyundais is no where near Lexus and all this crap in 1989 when the LS was released it was big, and boring....but highly competitive, powerful, very well built, and very refined. Ironically just like this Hyundai it was a HUGE amount cheaper than its intended competition the XJ, 7 series, and S Class. Hell those cars that were even near the LS in price some didnt have air, didnt have a casette, basically you were talking a highly stripped version just to even get close to the LS on price. People just didnt take Lexus seriously as prestige car, it took 10 years for them to price their cars even slightly close to the Europeans as Lexus has played the value card with every previous car, and some still dont think Lexus is as prestigious as the Europeans.....but how hypocritical to say the same the Badge obsessed were saying about the Lexus, about the Hyundai. Your precious brand has only been around 10 years, as have infiniti, and Acura slightly longer......So its not impossible to go from nothing to something in a relatively short amount of time....stop being a hypocrite

lol...the point I was trying to make was that there is always space for improvement for Lexus.
I love my LX 470 and LS 400, but it's annoying when my friends tease how similar it is to an ordinary Toyota.

bmwdrvr - How much platform sharing is there actually between VW and Audi? Only the A3 and Rabbit are significantly related. the Q7 is closer to the Cayenne than it is to the Touareg, and the TT uses a completely different chassis to the Rabbit (it's 58% by weight aluminium). The A4, A5, A6 and A8 are completely unrelated to any VW group products.

WOW!!!!its funny another Audi fan that knows nothing about VW group or Audi great I have no problem proving you wronG...so where should I begin

1.A8, Phaeton, continental Gt, flying spur--with the last 3 using steel instead of aluminum as the difference

2.next variants of the golf platform: tiguan, golf, rabbit, scirocco,eos, skoda octavia, seat leon, seat cupra, mpv, tt, a3, skoda superb, vw lavida, current audi a4/a6 use a slightly modified version, passat, seat toledo, touran, caddy, beetle, jetta......
THATS 20 VARIANTS OF THE GOLF AND IM SURE I MISSED ONE OR 2...--20--VARIANTS..than add in the fact the new a4, a5, Q5 will be available with the golfs 2.0t engine...so how many is that with the 2.0t engine???

3.toureg, cayenne, Q7 despite your comment are all based on the same car with the cayenne being the most unique

4. R8, gallardo, same platform....

5.gallardo, S6, S8 (the 2 audis use a V10 derived from the lambo)

6. the A8,phaeton, continental, and flying spur are all offered with a variation on the same 12 cylinder


but there it goes....Im sure I missed something but this just shows they have nothing on GM, Toyota, or anyone else when it comes to platform/parts sharing

I wasn't talking about VW group, I was talking about VW Audi. I am well aware that VW shares a lot amongst Skoda, Seat etc, but in Audi's line-up, only 2 are significantly related. The A8 uses a completely different space frame (you can't just change steel for aluminium), the Q7 shares only 17% of parts with the Cayenne (fewer than with the Touareg), the A4 is completely unrelated to the Golf or the Jetta or the Passat (and I mean that, it's built off a brand new modular frame which is unique to Audi). And is it really problem that the R8 is based off a Lamborghini?? Or that the S6/RS6 use a Lamborghini V10??
Sure there's engine sharing, but they all do that. BMW's 116i/Mini uses a Peugeot engine, and the old Mini used a Chrysler made thing. Merc's engines have been used in Ssangyongs, Chryslers, Dodges and Jeeps. They all do it, and Audi is no more guilty than they are.

you dont believe me do your research...its not just the rabbit, and A3 that are related with Audi and VW that is one of the most inaccurate statements ive ever heard

Im betting lexus is more worried about that double-digit drop in sales every month than the Genesis. Although I for one would do a happy dance if the Genesis further contributed to that monthly drop.

Not any more worried than every other car manuacturer.

I know your biased, but a recession means most sales for most businesses will be down.

True in 1989 Lexus came to surface, but it wasn't a no body. It came in with a new look that put it right next to the top competitors. The Genesis' look is truly nothing new about it, it looks just like the old Infiniti J30, has anyone noticed that? And the interior looks like the dead Infiniti Q. If I was in the market for the Genesis I would compare it to the ES350 only.

You need much more to get where Lexus is, the Germen cars are trailing Lexus today. And the other question with plenty power being produced by V6s who cares about the V8s anymore, with the gas prices sky rocketing?

Trailing? um...no.

You judge too much based on the American market. It's only here that Lexus sells so well.

In North America you'll see Lexus mixed in with the Germans at expensive country clubs.

In Europe you'll see Jaguars, Mercedes, Audi's and BMW's. You'll rarely see any Japanese cars parked.

---

I disagree with you. Lexus was a nobody and unheard of by the wealthy. It is only with proper marketing and proper pricing that previous Toyota owners who was seeking luxury started hopping on the band wagon. Loyal Toyota customers would have been confident buying a Lexus. However, keep in mind they had one of the best marketing teams in the world. My friend who worked as a marketer for GM in the 90's admitted the Lexus team was top notch and rightly so.

I think they stole most of Cadillac, Chrysler, & Lincoln's thunder. For the money I would buy a Lexus over a domestic luxury car hands down. Better quality, better looking cars, just an overall better purchase.

To say Lexus is on top of the world and dominating wouldn't be accurate. They are great cars that's why I own one. But my Merc is definitely not trailing behind the Lexus brand, especially in curb appeal, quality, luxury, prestige, and all aspects which make the Germans the rulers of the luxury market.

However, I agree with you that the Genesis shouldn't go directly in competition with the LS because that's a long shot. Perhaps an ES/GS would be good enough to aim against and use the bang for buck value for luxury and power as a marketing ploy. Lexus weren't the best looking cars before. I don't expect Hyundai to create a masterpiece over night.

the Lexus was not a fresh desighn......it had cues from Mercedes and BMW at the time.....but someone saying that the J30 looks like a Genesis obviously is blind so I guess my point will be lost on you....for one the J30 had a heavily sloping rear, compact car interior dimensions and a low slung appearence which is no where near the Genesis...and while Lexus is a hit in America they still struggle in the rest of the world.....not to mention BMW is the sales leader in 3 luxury classes with the, 3, 5, and X3...so the Europeans arent struggling by comparison and Lexus sales are going down just like the other luxury brands.....as far as gas mileage in a time yes when v6 cars are getting high hp....and low epa ratings 15-17 mpg in the city which are OLD V8 NUMBERS by the way..a V8 with good epa ratings should be fine

Right after world peace, my biggest wish is for fools here to quit saying that the American automotive market is insignificant.

There's a few reasons why Hyundai will never be as good as Lexus. One main reason is the badge. Nobody's going to drop $40k+ on a car with the name 'Hyundai'. So, Hyundai needs a new division of cars. Another reason is the fact that Lexus will always be a step ahead. Yes, Lexus did start out as the underdog and worked their way up, but how often does that happen? Acura started before Lexus and I think it's safe to say Lexus has surpassed Acura in reputation. Plus, Lexus is still behind the Germans as far as innovation, performance, and handling goes, so Hyundai will be even further behind. I just don't think the Genesis is as big a deal as people are making.

while just about everyone KNEW that lexus was a creation of toyota, that was a HUGE PLUS rather than a negative. the quality, durability, and reliability of toyotas were legendary by 1989.

while hyundai HAS come a long ways from the first cars they sent us, those do remain an albatross around the neck of the brand's reputation. yet hyundai has not even bothered to distance the genesis from the hyundai logo and reputation.

did they not learn, from vw's phailed phaeton? people interested in entry level luxury cars, are EVEN MORE desirous of a lux brand LABEL than the average joe car buyer. lexus has nothing to worry about.

nevertheless, they likely will sell well, based JUST on the content they offer, for the price. just as they have always done.

"never". When it comes to the automotive industry I would never say "never".

Don't forget the obvious...

THIS IS HYUNDAI'S FIRST TRY, imagine what will happen when they get it 100% right.

-00J

That is also true. It's Hyundai's first real attempt at a luxury car. From the photos I've seen on the C&D website the interior looks to be made very well and the seats look comfortable. Despite it's navigation button which looks like it was lifted off a German car it's an awesome first try for the company.

I see good things happening with Hyundai in the next decade or so. Who knows, never say never but Hyundai may share some of the spotlight with it's German and Japanese rivals.

As for pricing if they do it smart and market it well they could progressively up the starting price for these cars and people will buy them. Lexus sure did it so why can't somebody else? Although the German buyers probably won't appeal to this I'm sure some Lexus owners will be. I'm prepared to be deboosted by the fan boys.

Why are people who aren't really agents allowed to use the "agent" moniker in their posting name?

It gets a little confusing sometimes.

agent63 made up a "survey" about brand prestige on another website, then posted it here as "news". That's not really something autospies would want to be associated with I would assume.

Wow what is up with the accusations buddy. I made up some survey?. I found it on the internet and thought it might be interesting. It's not like you or anyone else on this website haven't posted bs "news" anyways. All those Lexus vs. German flamewars were started by many. My submission isn't half as bad as some of the arguments. My license plate on one of my cars are Agent63 long before I even came on this website. Don't be too quick to assume. If it were such a problem Donald would have told me so from the get-go. I've been using this name for quite some time now. Ask before you accused next time.

Now lets get back to the real topic here. CARS!

It's not an accusation if it's true.

You must hate me or something LOL. It's either that or you went to my page on this site and realized i'm Asian. I'm going to be the better man and not respond to any more of your comments unless it's related to cars.

"Car & Driver Says Hyundai Genesis ON PAR With Lexus-Is The Fix In?"

I believe it :-)

I forgot to say something about this Hyundai Genesis.

I absolutely despise the styling inside and out :-)

"Anyone who thinks this thing looks better than any Lexus needs some serious help." That is a funny comment considering it is all a matter of opinion.

I think much of what originates from Toyota/Lexus is boring looking.

Mechanically I think they are very well put together though. I think Infiniti, BMW and Audi designed cars look more interesting. But it is all opinion though.

It seemed the early designs from Lexus were copies off of Mercedes but not so much lately.

Lexus clearly borrowed heavily in designing the original LS from Mercedes Benz just as Hyundai is borrowing right now to help establish itself.

You need to come down from the altar of Lexus that you worship at and grasp a hold of the fact that while Lexus is a great car, it is not the ONLY great car out there. Open your mind to the fact that a lot of what Lexus has done has been precipitated by other manufacturers.

Hyundai has done a great job for a first try, give credit where credit is due.

-00J

How could you say this? "Lexus clearly borrowed heavily in designing the original LS from Mercedes Benz" ????????

When Lexus LS was first release it was the quietest car ever built with the lowest drag coefficients of any production vehicle (Cd 0.29), record a quiet 58 dB.
So how in the hell Lexus copied Mercedes?

Silver1, the fact that the design of the original LS borrowed heavily from then current Mercedes products doesn't count in your book, or did you forget that very MINOR detail?

I am not knocking what Lexus accomplished, but it in no way forged new trails with the original LS instead improving on then current technology of MB and BMW.

-00J

Please tell me how lexus design looks like Mercdes??? Mercedes looks like an old classic time machine when lexus looks like something out of the year 2040.

Point being, Lexus and Mercedes looks nothing alike

DESIGNER1 U RIGHT!!!
SOMEBODY CAN COMPARE THE INTERIOR PLEASE,TAKE A LOOK:
INFINITY:

http://www.netcarshow.com/infiniti/2005-q45/800x600/wallpaper_0e.htm

GENESIS:

http://www.netcarshow.com/hyundai/2009-genesis/800x600/wallpaper_1a.htm

IF THE INFINITY Q IS DEAD MAY FOR THE INTERIOR OR WHATEVER,WHAT WE CAN WAIT FOR GENESIS,JUST LOOK THE WOOD (look so cheap,not good quality,etc...).
to pay $40,000 for genesis i prefer to buy:
*ACURA TSX
*LEXUS ES or IS
*INFINITY G37
*CADILLAC CTS
*MERCEDES BENZ C CLASS
*LINCOLN MKS
*JAGUAR X-TYPE
GENESIS WILL COMPETE WITH THE NEXT TOYOTA AVALON(coming soon) OR NOT?.

I am not quite sure what you are saying in your post but I think in the comparison you can visually see a difference in quality.

I'm not so sure about the Mercedes C-Class, though.
I like the design that Mercedes was pursuing, but I don't find it welcoming.

here is a video I think everyone will find interesting.....its a 1989 comparison of the 3 top Europeans than and the Lexus LS400


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-B2SJzUTLk

Very interesting video. Thanks for the post!

Wow. I never realised just how much BMW and Merc scrimped on equipment. No AC, no catalyst on the Merc!

"Wow. I never realised just how much BMW and Merc scrimped on equipment. No AC, no catalyst on the Merc! "

- That was 19 years ago.

yeah talk about a posers car..lmao...no air, sound system, or trip computer just to get in at those prices which for 1989 were pretty expensive still...I wonder how many people bought those stripped versions lol

i recall reading that shortly after Lexus hit the market, unsold Benzs were piling up in storage lots.

those 'strippo models' is news to me too, however. no wonder so many were languishing unsold.

I CAN ONLY SAY, BRING IT HYUNDAI. I SIMPLY DOUBT THEY ARE GONNA SUCCEED. I HAVE HAD THE CHANCE TO WORK ON THOSE THINGS AND LET ME TELL YOU, THEY ARE HORRIBLE.

because maybe you are horrible?

we were talking about cars you damn ass. but if you really want to know, i'm a GOD.

Lexus was introduced in 1989 not 1897. How can you be a fanboi and not even know their history?

I meant 1987 not 1897.

that video is the truth...WOW, i see why alot of car companies hate Lexus LOL

When that instrument cluster lit up on '90 LS - sold, and the chrome tipped dual exhaust and wide/big bumper - that was modern and revolutionary - this car just became another choice thats all - but if it can be leased for $300/mo.(no $ down) 2yrs - i'm in.

Good job Hyundai!!!

Special note to the ignorant: A true enthusiast likes cars of all makes, price points, and performance. See, they are "enthusiastic" about cars in general. (ie Jay Leno)

Some of you really need to remove your head from your rectums and realize that not all cars have to come from Germany to be great. Not all buyers of M3's poo-poo the Lexus brand. And you don't need to be a biased ass to be cool.

Agreed!!!!!! +200

yet ironically you had to mention BMW, i always enjoy reading the SELF RIGHTEOUS hypocrits........the argument here has nothing to do with BMW, it is whether this car can be compared to the Lexus cars in which it saw as its benchmark......what in the world did an M3 or BMW have to do with this post....or how BMW buyers view Lexus.......so hypocritcal

You think that Leno is going to add that Hyundai to his collection?

bmwdrvr,

If you don't think that Lexus vs. Bmw comes up a lot here, you must be new.

My mention of BMW has to do with making a relevant comment about some peoples here perceptions. I never knocked the brand or it's buyers/fans.

If you think my post which speaks of respecting all brands is a knock against BMW, you are either way to sensitive, or way too ignorant to understand.

again read the title maybe your to ignorrant to read, or comprehend........this article is about the Hyundai Genesis according to Car and Driver.....nothing about the fact BMW M3 Buyers see any other brand in a negative light........how ignorrant of you...but ignorrance is bliss obviously......not to mention your comment has nothing at all to do with the issue at hand, it is a left field remark intented to rehash some Lexus Vs BMW commentary......with that said your comment was foolish, irrelevant, and totally unrelated to this post............the post wasnt whether what comes up about BMW and Lexus on here its about the Hyundai Genesis....how pitiful

just look at your comment..lol....not all cars have to come from Germany.....people arguing if Genesis on the same Level as a Lexus....Japanese and Korean...what are you talking about...and people boosted that

Once more, in a post where yet again the biased statements from self-proclaimed "enthusiasts" sprout like weeds, my post was relevant.

maybe 2nd gen Genesis gets it completely- hyundai can invent a knockoff design language too. G-finesse Until then the genesis will make a great buick alternative.

(sigh) you kids forget that Honda, Toyota and Datsun (now Nissan) got the same put downs as being "inferior" 'chinese' *#)$ cars....

True Hyundai had 'crap' cars in the 80's but every consumer report like

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2008/02/28/079194.html

has shown they have made huge gains in reliability...

remember Audi was trashed in the 80's for poor reliability and has reinvented themselves..

It's overconfident thinking like this that allows the guy that owns the top of the hill to get wacked in the head.

In fact, just to stress the point here is an article about how much Americans HATED the now hallowed Toyota

"One of the first things that happened after I left Ford was that Henry Ford said they were going to push us back into the ocean. We were having demonstrations, people were crushing cars, there was a lot of [U.S.] animosity at the time [toward Japanese car companies]."

-Jim Press, president of Toyota Motor North America


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7770265

LexSucks - your question has no logical basis - Jay would put 'collector' cars in his collection - The Hyundai is no more special then say a Toyota Avalon...would Jay put a Toyota Avalon in his collection? If not, does that mean the Toyota Avalon is a poor car?

haha

Here's the quote that I responded to:

"Special note to the ignorant: A true enthusiast likes cars of all makes, price points, and performance. See, they are "enthusiastic" about cars in general. (ie Jay Leno)"

- Being enthusiastic about cars in general doesn't mean that we should be enthusiastic about all cars. That's the only point that I was trying to make.

The same C&D that said the M3 beat the GTR? I think C&D have beat bought by BMW, they'll say anything to trash the Japanese, even to use the Koreans in their argument

So what if the M3 is better than the GT-R? This is about Hyundai being equal to Lexus. Let's stay on track.

What? Genesis better than probably the most technologically advanced car in the World and leader of the luxury segment, Lexus LS. No way.

and i think Hyundai themselves sees the GS as it's competitor not LS.

anyway if Genesis is on par with LS, than it's better than almost all cars LS compete with. Stupid magaizne.

JUGNU

They said its on par with the Lexus IS.

^^ ^^
"Genesis better than probably the most technologically advanced car in the World and leader of the luxury segment, Lexus LS."

The LS is possibly the most technologically advanced production car on sale at the moment but it's definitely not the class leader.

I just hope they make a long wheelbase version, something with some high end options like some of its other competitors, that will show what their really attempting to compete against.

If Hyundai has made the Genesis a quite, smooth, luxury oriented auto, kudos. That is the Lexus market(RX/ES). Who are the badge whores now? Hyundai needs to hit this segment.

I think Toyota Acura Saturn and other near luxury cars should be worried.It won't take away any Lexus sales.Their dealer body is one of the weakest in the industry.

I would say the sales drain would be from mainstream badges, - this is more of an alternative to Toyota Avalon & Nissan Maxima

Hyundai needs to be congratulated on their first luxo-attempt - Remember Lexus as a brand is almost 20 years old + decades more experience since they are just Toyota.

this may drive additional nails in Mercury's and even Lincoln's coffin.
while many anti-asian car fanbois have CLAIMED hyundai was stealing sales from the japanese (pre-Genesis), they were stealing EVEN MORE from detroit.

and now, it seems detroit is in EVEN WORSE trouble than i ever suspected:

Backseat Driver
Desperate Times
Jerry Flint 06.30.08, 12:00 AM ET

Our government will soon have to decide if we want a domestic automobile industry. If it does nothing, that industry will be dead in three years. There would still be an auto industry here: Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai and Kia, maybe even Volkswagen and Fiat, would be assembling cars in the U.S.

But we would be like Britain, which has no British-owned auto companies. The Japanese and Americans build cars there. The workers are British but the nameplates are Toyota (nyse: TM - news - people ) and Ford.

This foreign-owned auto industry in the U.S. would be a nonunion industry, and largely southern. The Rust Belt would get rustier. Much of the high-salaried work would be done abroad--the engineering, the toolmaking, the designing. Much of the profit would go abroad. We Americans would be the water boys, the assembly workers. That is the way we could end up.

Actually, it is happening now. The once great General Motors Corp. (nyse: GM - news - people ) is working down to 50,000 U.S. union workers. The Big Three's share of sales dropped to 45% in May, and I believe that the share could drop toward 40% if present trends continue.

Our presidential candidates all decry the loss of manufacturing, the factories shut, the idled workers. They blame Mexico or China or Japan, but they aren't helping save anything. They are part of the problem.

This industry needs help now--if it is to be saved. And government isn't helping, it's piling on.

How serious is the danger? Frankly, I don't think the executives at Chrysler know what they are doing--or maybe it's just that they don't have the money to do anything, like building their own new small car or rebuilding the Dodge division. Those private equity pockets seem to be empty.

The General Motors kitty is going down $1 billion a month, and in two years it could be gone. What then? gm could abandon the U.S., I suppose, and continue abroad, but that's happening anyway. Nearly 60% of gm's sales are overseas.

Ford seems to have more direction right now, and more gumption and fighting spirit, but Ford is in trouble, too.

The Detroit car companies aren't saying this, of course. If they complained or asked for anything, they would be buried under an attack from the greens. We might be greener if all our factories closed, if power plants shut, if everyone rode to global warming meetings on Chinese-made bicycles and if everyone went a little hungry. Our presidential candidates should decide if that's the way they want it. But if they want to keep some factories, if they want Detroit to survive, they should act.