CHEAP Leases Are Going The Way Of The Dinosaur-What's A Luxury Brand Moocher To Do?

The moochers will all end up buying Hyundai Genesi/Genesises.

Agreed.

You'll see more people "trading" in their leased luxury vehicle for more practical options like an Accord, Camry, Malibu. They'll most-likely give you the story, "Got something more affordable b/c of gas prices"....give me a break. Be honest. If you could get whatever vehicle for lease payments that you could afford...yearly maintenance, gas prices, etc. wouldn't matter.

It will be great. I have a Z06, and FX4, a Boxster S and a 993 TT.

Now I will be able to read posts by people who really own cars rather than someone who doesn't have a clue what it means to have something specail...

That is actually an interesting comment. In the latest issue of Automotive News, the Genesis is doing quite well boosted by the poor US economy. The article goes on to say that the Genesis is doing well among budget-minded owners of costlier cars. So, your observation is quite true. This may hurt the premium brands more than they may realize.

Well I've leased my wife's 3 series 6 times going back to 1990 and I don't think it's been under $400 for a very long time.

Where do you get these numbers?

With no money down, even before the increases, you would be lucky to get a 335 with reasonable options for under $600/mo.

Pass the crack pipe 001.

That's because you've never had me negotiate it!

Right now, i have friends getting into 328's for 399 with ZERO out of pocket except for the first lease payment and license fee.

001

So show your numbers cuz I smell BS.

Well I just leased a 328 last year (2007 MY) for 359/mo... added xenons, Sport Pack, and iPod... total payment is 435/mo... oh, and 2500 down... so not too bad... but at 10000 miles per year, the mileage restrictions might bite me in the butt in the end...

I agree with 001. You obviously arent even trying to negotiate. You never just go with the initial BS they bring to the table. I love the negotiating process.

You probably can get a great lease deals on vehicles sitting on the lot...but you'd have some type of limitation (ie. small V6, low annual mileage allowed, few interior options, etc.).

What lewishamilton is trying to say is that you can't get a "well-optioned" 335xi for around $400/mo. The times when you can lease the top-of-the-line model for the price of a stripped-down, entry-level, economy vehicle are coming to an end (for now).

Zero down and $399 a month here pretty recently.

i only buy my cars in cash btw. i dont do "lease"

kz:

why would you buy a depreciating asset? leasing is tax deductible and you only pay for the part of the car's value that you use.

enthusiastx11 im glad you asked me such a question

1. every asset, even homes, are all deprecating.

2. i am a sport car enthusiasts. I need my cars with the 3rd pedal, good looks, noise, and after market parts. leasing and mods dont go together.

3. leasing also has restrictions and i dont like the idea of being in a never ending payment. i like to buy my cars in cash and not worry about monthly payments.

4. when i reach old age, maybe i'll lease

if i remember anything i'll post it

I completely agree with everything posted above. I am someone who purchases my cars in full, and resent the fact that some who feel they must live up to a false surface image, or false wealth are in cars that I have worked for. I remember a few prices of lease payments from friends over the years, I will list them as we can see how crazy lease payments on luxury cars have gotten. It's funny how this article was posted today as I was accompanying a friend looking for a car payment for "less than $300 a month" which had to change as payments on some entry level vehicles have gotten outrageous.
For example, I own a BMW, and a MB. I remember seeing advertisements for a 3series and C-Class for less than $400 a month. Thats for a $45k car!!! Now, to this weekend, with $0 down a 2009 NIssan Altima BASE, no leather, hub caps, etc. was $320/mo. with no $$ down on a 36mo. lease! Now this is for someone with excellent credit (over 740 rating). That seems insane, but it was just because we are all used to seeing a4's,3series,C-class,X-type, etc. for close to that price, yet the cars are 2x the price. After looking at most dealerships, the best lease for that price range was a 2009 Subaru Legacy, which was on a 24mo. lease $0 down, for 275/Mo. Obviously, due to a great residual.

It seems as if with this economy now, things are going back to normal, as they were very extreme just 2 years ago, for example, Real Estate was so high that now it seems hellacious, when it reality its just above what it normally should be. Cars were so cheap on a lease 2 years ago for the vehicles former mentioned that now it seems as if (and i thought this myself) "How can a $22k car be over $300/Mo. on a lease?! Obviously its because of residual value, poor economy, less sales, etc., also, the NEED, not want anymore, for fuel efficient vehicles. there are so many cars being returned on a lease that the manufactures don't know what to do. A friend who works at a local GM dealer says GM has not come to pick up lease returned cars, or inspect them for 3 months, they are just sitting there taking up space for new cars.

So, trying to make this long story come to an end, These are the following lease rates i know people with EXCELLENT credit are paying. Included is the time frame the lease was initiated, down payment, and terms. Enjoy, and I look forward to hearing every1's feedback. Safe Driving.. Hard Driving :)

2007 MB ML350 (Loaded) $800/mo. (leased in 2007) 36mo/12kmi. $0 down

2003 MB S500 (Loaded) $1400/Mo. (leased in 2003 36mo./12k mi. $5k down

2002 MB CLK430 (Loaded) $700 (leased in 2002) $0 down 36mo./12k mi

2004 Cadillac Escalade (Loaded) $700/mo. (leased in 2004) $0down 36mo/12mi.

2005 BMW M3 $869/mo. (leased in 2005) $0 Down 36/12

2006 MB CLS55AMG (leased in 2006) $1800/mo. $0 down 36/12

2005 Hummer H2 $894/mo.(leased in 2005) $3k down, 36/12

Now... here was this weekend

2009 Nissan Altima Base $325/Mo. $0 down 36/12

2009 Honda

Buddy, you're wrong about a few things.

"I remember seeing advertisements for a 3-series and C-Class for less than $400 a month. Thats for a $45k car!!!"

No, thats for a stripped 328i or C300 with no options other than an auto transmission. Those usually retail for around $33-34,000, not $45,000. A C-class or 3-series costing 45 grand is usually the top-end model with a good amount of options. These cheap leases are for the base cars and are basically set up to get people into the dealership. It's very rare that someone drives away in a BMW or Mercedes that costs $400 a month without a nice size down payment.

"resent the fact that some who feel they must live up to a false surface image, or false wealth "

Why this may be true for some, it's not universally the case. Some people just love cars and spend a lot on them. When I bought my first 3-series back in 2000, I cross-shopped heavily and considered both financing and leasing on several different models. But in the end, leasing was always the cheapest, and seeing how I don't like to keep cars 5+ years, seemed the best deal for someone like me who ALWAYS wants a new car. What many people don't realize is that leasing and buying are just two different ways to finance. If I want to buy the car at the end of the lease , I do. If not, I lease again.

It seems like the leasing vs financing war will never end. Every person I know who doesn't lease thinks its foolish, and honestly I don't get it. To each their own.

@ exoticdrvr3

Try negotiating your leases next time.

The ML is about $300 more than what you should be paying.

The S500 should be 0 Down. An S550 today with AMG and pano roof will be about $1350.

The H2 is really high. It should be $780 with $0 down.

The altima should be $230

I am a leasing broker and sell about 60 cars a month all makes and models.

My S550 with Premium Package 2= 8K down and $1200 a month

Chip

Believe it or not, but some people pay too much for they vehicles b/c they don't ask questions or seek help from people they know who may be more savy at purchasing/leasing cars.

I don't discount anything exoticdrvr3 has said. You both make total sense. But also remember that NOT ALL CAR DEALS ARE EQUAL & NOT ALL DEALERSHIPS OFFER THE DEAL. Different consumers will have different ideas on how much the same car should cost...that's why we get various monthly terms for the similar vehicles. And depending on what region you live, dealers may offer agressive lease rates b/c they know they can sell the same used car (under the CPO guise) for an additional premium. And of course, various differences in APR's make a difference too. One guy can get 0% financing on anything on the lot, while another guy can only get 4.5% on the cheapest model available.

Oh, and BTW, in reference to residual loss, luxury cars are suicide. My 2008 CL65 will loose 48%of its value in 1 year!!!!!! Thats what it says in the dealer's handbook... ridiculous... a 2006 CL65 is going for $75-85k now... insane...

your car is not a typical luxury car so it is not a good way to compare to luxury car depreciation.

a car like yours is low production and should get an average of 5000 miles a year on it. some drive it more and those are the people who loose value. also in a resale market that is a very tough car, not because of gas prices, because of its rarity. dealers who take in this kind of trade always pay below galves or black book value.

also the leases on these types of cars are horrible. generally you end up paying around $3500 a month.

I disagree exotic, BMW , MB ect have always advertised leases with low payments until you read the small print. Most are for a base car, or with one cheap option and require 3,4,5000 dollars down.

Nobody who knows what they are doing puts money down on a lease.

I just looked and the last 3 series I leased for under $400 with tax was in 1999 and I know how to lease!

I leased my car because I was tired of getting raped on a trade when I wanted a new car. I can afford much more than I choose to afford, I want money to spend on other things and I get no satisfaction from driving a badge. Am I wrong to lease because I don't want to get screwed twice? Once at the sale and once on the trade-in? Or am I supposed to buy a car and drive it for 15 years?

Points well stated. I actually know a few people who have had previous model 3series in the $350ish range, with auto trani, power seats, etc. obviously not fully loaded but possible. I think now-a-days it makes sense to lease for most due to the warranty, or in bmw's case, the maintenance program. There is no way any1 can say keeping a car for more than 5 years pays anymore. The parts, labor,etc. on german cars is crazy, and for luxury german cars its even more ridiculous. The only thing I don't personally like about a lease is that your stuck in that vehicle for that long of time. I personally switch cars very often, 2 years at most, and a lease leaves you stuck in that margin, also, mileage is an obvious concern. Here's a good question, which car do u think would have the best lease rates based on gross sales, bmw 3, mb C, audi a4, ??

Right now the 3-series remains the lease king, however that might change real soon since BMW is going to start encouraging its clients to buy their cars with a low interest rate rather than lease. The scary thing is 60% of BMW owners lease, so this could be a problem for them.

Audi is starting to test out the leasing market and scored big time with the recent deals on the outgoing A4 2.0T model and the payoff was huge. They also have offered some good leases recently on the A6 and its sales increased as well. But from what I hear, regarding the A5/S5, they are not being so generous with. We'll see how the treat the new A4.

Mercedes has always done some solid lease deals on the C and E class but the problem in my opinion is how they are structured (24 or 48 months) not the the typical 36 months that BMW does. Its either too short, or too long.

the first car i ever sold was a 2003 3 series lease.

$289 a month. 1st month, bank fee, taxes and dmv.

this was a very hot special back then.

I have leased since the early 1990's and over the last few years have thought "this will be my last good lease" and the party is coming to an end. Maybe now it realy is coming to an end. The residuals in the US have always been higher than Europe/UK. Check out the UK AutoTrader for a 3 to 5 year old luxury car and you will be SHOCKED at the prices. (do not convert to $ just compare price to new cost).

My best "deal" was from a 2003 A6 Quattro 2.7t loaded that was a 36 month deal at $670 no money down($47+k sticker)to a 2006 A6 3.2 Quattro S line ($51+ sticker) for a 24 months at the same cost (and because I did not like the all season tires they switched them to high performance in the deal).

The residual on this lease was well over 60% !!!

Why I like leasing?

1. I live in New York. My car gets dinged, dented, backed into pretty much everyday. Since I lease i do not have to think about the deprecation of my car when i repaint the bumpers.

If the car was financed or owned, when i go to sell it an expert will see its painted.

2. I get sick of car quickly. I always lease cars for no more than 2 years. When i am done i give it back and get another one.

3. Many people believe that if that people who lease are people trying to live beyond their means.

Thats not the case. People lease because they want to change cars and not worry about damage and other problems when they sell the car.

Yes its true that the bank sends a third party representative to inspect your vehicle and you will get charged for the damage, but you go to your local body shop and have it repaired, never go to the dealer because they will rape you every time.

Many of you will argue that since you have a mercedes you have to go to the dealer. You are retarded! You can go anywhere you want and have your repair work done.

I only go to the dealer for warranty related items.

Also America is all about living beyond your means, mortgages, credit cards, car loans, etc...

bottom line if leasing is not for you then shut up and let us enjoy driving our cars and getting new ones every 2 - 3 years.

You all said some things about leasing i never knew, I had no idea that for the most part at the end of a lease they don't use paint meter's on the car. The thing I hated about a car i leased was not the over mileage, but the fact that I had to keep it for that certain amount of time, and could not trade in for another vehicle until that time. Are you guys aware of how toe end a lease early without paying a lease cancellation fee, or the remaining payments (as I had to do) ? Also, what kind of cars does it not pay to lease? After reading all this I must say, it does make sense in the sense that depreciation doesn't affect you. For example, there are many cars that after a year are worth less than the remaining payments if financed, in that situation, leasing unarguably is best. Also, is any1 else here self employed and writes cars off as a business expense? If so, what are your leasing/purchasing thoughts. Thanks to all.

exoticdrvr3:

There is still a lot of misconception about leasing in general. The banks have it figured out pretty well. For most people, you can buy or lease and it will cost you about the same overall. If there was a magic way to do it that saves thousands and thousands of dollars, that's what everyone would do, but that's clearly not the case. Leases are just math, and like anything else you have to figure out if it makes more sense to buy, lease, or pay cash. The rate is an extremely important factor that is often overlooked. You know the 2008 Audi leases everyone is referring to? The effective interest rate on that lease was less that 0.5%! So if you were going to pay cash for that car, and instead you leased it and put the $35,000 in something simple like a CD for 3 years, you would make a shitload more in interest than you would pay out.

There are so many variables, but here's some of the most common misconceptions I hear:

I drive to many miles to lease - In most cases, if you are driving high miles (25K+ per year) you should be leasing. Generally, lease depceciation is static, meaning you pay a certain amount per mile, no matter how many miles you put on the car. In reality, the higher the mileage the car has on it versus average, the actual depreciation is higher than the mileage penalty you'd pay. For example, if the depreciation is $0.15 per mile for an average mile car that is owned, a high mileage car would likely be affected by $0.17 or $0.18 per mile if it were traded in. It's disproportionately higher the higher the mileage. If you leased the same car you would pay the same $0.15 no matter how many miles you put on it.

I don't like to lease because you don't own the car - OK, seems reasonable, but most people finance, so the bank owns the car. The average loan is 5 years and the average trade cycle is 3.5, so most people never "own" their car. If you pay cash, you do own the car, but you've lost the use of your money and the interest it would generate. Interest rates for special leases are often dramatically lower than the average finance rates, making a cash purchase the most expensive way to pay for the car

You get beat up for every dent, ding and scratch - Most lease comapnies are reasonable and use independent 3rd party inspectors. If you owned the car and went to trade it in, the value is determined by what a car in good shape with good tires is worth, and deductions would be made for condition. If you beat up a leased car, you pay out of pocket at the end. If you beat up a car you own, you pay with a lower trade value.

You can't trade in a lease - Not true. The car has a value and a payoff exactly as if it was financed. You can trade it, buy it out and sell it, whatever. There are generally two ways to get out of a lease early (though some banks have different guidelines) - pay the remaining payments and return the leased car, or use it as a trade to the dealer you are getting a new car from. You jsut hav

a "fake" car? what are you talking about smart boy?

A car is not an investment (ideally one should minimize monthly payments and invest the rest). And if residuals are really tanking as 001 says, anyone who purchased their car is a fool. Anyone who leased was a genius. The idea of spending tons of money to purchase a rapidly depreciating asset is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

I totally agree.

Great if you want to drive an outdated POS. How old is your computer? 5 years, 10 years? Cars are now a little like computers, they are getting a lot better in many areasdue to the relentless advances in computerized technology. Does your Jeep have electronic stability control? maybe Bluetooth? Side curtain airbags? The best safety advantage is being able to AVOID an accident, and handling braking dynamics of the latest vehicles make a 5 year old Jeep look like it came of Noahs Ark.

I had to rent an SUV to move some stuff from Houston to Florida, I asked for the small Ford SUV (Edge?) but I got a Jeep Liberty, it was like horrendous, felt like it was going to flip over half the time. It certainly kept me concentrating for 1200 miles.

I have enjoyed this disscussion. What a change in cars over the past 20 years. I remember when the MB 190E came out and it was a piece of crap, today step into the C class and look and enjoy the difference.

This economic "bubble" we have enjoyed with lifestyle has helped improve the quality of the vehicle we have today. Thank God for that! The whole leasing aspect has enabled us that are car enthusiats to enjoy so many different great vehicles. Its great to be in your 20s and enjoy great vehicles when you have to start establishing yourself.

For all the finance guys that kept this bubble going, I say great for us to enjoy great cars for their risky ventures. I dont see the industry reverting to the 80s standard or options for cars. We still win with better performance, safety, quality, and design.

Here is to all that had the opp to live it up! Down here in Houston, Texas there are prime examples of folks that have more car than house. I have pulled up many times to a gas station when someone puts $10 in the Escalade and then rolls out.

We have needed this correction in this country. But I think the financial lesson is going to hurt a lot of folks.

Surely, there is no quick fix for the car companies. I am sure there will be a way to get what we want out of this new coming standard....

Who pays a Down Payment and Tax upfront? I roll Everything into the payment. Leasing is still good - when u walk out on them - they most likely will call u back w/ $50+ less/mo. Always worked for me - I got my '06 530i & '07 CX7 for steals.

Leasing is a great thing for manufactures. It keeps their customers coming back. However its the consumers job to do some research before signing on the dotted line. You should not out a down payment on a lease, if you can dry and lease for 0 down sure your payment might be more but its worth it, and your new 3-Series depreciates pretty quickly. Some people might lease not necessarily because they cant afford the car w/o leasing but maybe b/c they like the idea of getting a new car every 2 or 3 years. Change is a good thing.

You really can't beat leasing. Halfway through you are already thinking about what car to get next. I just counted and my family has gone through about 26 leases within the last 10 years. Most have been 24 month 15k mpy, 0 down, and we usually opt out at about 18 months with lease pull ahead. We drive a lot so we usually do 2 year leases so we don't need to replace tires that usually wear out in the 3rd year. All we have done is oil changes, a few windshield replacements, and about 5 minor collisions. Only a couple leases resulted in some extra wear charges, a worn tire here and there. We have never had to do extra maintenance, tune ups, or any additional money out of pocket. In fact, I'm shopping for a new lease tomorrow, with GM Lease Pull-Ahead. I'm not really expecting any bargains. I just saw some ads in the paper, 60 month, 12k mpy leases :O, for the same prices I used to get 24 month leases. Too bad the concept of leasing is going down the drain. I predict most people that were leasing luxury cars that could not afford purchasing them (myself included), will likely in a few years time purchase a 15-30k dollar Accord/Camry/Altima/Malibu/Fusion/Civic/Corolla/Focus/etc., maybe even used.

I just priced out a $25,000 Impala, 24 month, 15k, 0 down, $475. WTF, that's almost the price of my STS with the same terms. Then I looked at a G8, and heard they were going for high 6s. Leasing is officially dead.

When I sold cars, I always advised my client the following "if you're planing to own your car for over five years buy it. If you think you will always have a car payment lease it". this is of coursed a simplified statement and leases -vs.-buy is based on the clients needs and limitation, which any good car salesperson should address first.

Nothing wrong with leasing - it sells cars - it keep the economy going.

To me, the increased access and ownership of lower-end luxury vehicles shows the the standard is going up these days. For those people (with money) who cant stand the fact that the average joe is now driving a e350, I have a motto: Goyard or go home! If that doesn't make sense to you, then you aren't one of THOSE people.

MT- 43% of Lexus customers lease. I don't think trust is an issue for a lease. It is more of an economic decision.

i leased my first car in 2003 a 330xi 40,000 msrp for 496 a month with 2k total out of pocket.

then a 20005 m3 60,000 msrp for 811 a month with 2500 out of pocket.

now a 2008 335xi 47500 msrp for 619.00 a month with 2000 out of pocket.... ( all 36 month leases with 12k miles per year)

i really do like bmw's leasing programs, if they take away the great leasing programs, i wouldnt be thrilled but if i have to down grade then i guess i can always just get an rx8, evo, sti still for the same amount im paying now.

or i can just start driving american cars, its not like i dont like the camaro, mustang, challenger, charger, 300c, or a vette :)

guys, its nothin to worry about, there are plenty of cars out there. maybe its for the better.

I like this guy.

Knows what he likes to drive (BMW 3-series), but also knows that there are options across a wide range of vehicles. And there are. If you limit yourself to one brand or one model, it's hard to be flexible when the economy shifts and suddenly, financing becomes a bit more strict and interest rates slowly/drastically increase.

I leased for a while but now I'm able to spend about $800.00/month on a car. That should be able to get me something decent with a finance? right?

Not with your credit.

where are you people leasing BMWs and mercedes for these prices? 1997?

i pay $650 for my 335i lease...and i bargained with 3 dealers. two of my friends drive E350s and they pay between $550 and $700 depending on down. another just got a base 528i for $710.

please do share real people you know who are getting bargain rates.

and yet another friend got the same 335i sedan as me two weeks ago...originally they wanted over $700. then he told them about my deal he got the same $650 payment.

The BMW prices you speak of are on the dot, but I know of a handful of people who leased E350s for as low as $380 - $550 a month. All of which have gotten DCX employee pricing and all of which have no affiliation to employees. I see just as many E350s as Camrys and Accords put together. That's the only reason I wouldn't want to get one. Same thing with R350, ML350. However, I doubt you can find some now for that cheap. I think the cutoff point was last month for dirt cheap leases.

I love the pissing contest between you assholes bragging about the paymets you got when the numbers you say you got are bullshit. You guys are hilarious.