GT-R vs Porsche at Thunderhill Park Raceway

No difference!

Modified Porsche vs. stock GT-R, $100,000+ for a Porsche that is barely any better performance-wise than a $70,000 Nissan, big difference! If you cannot see that difference then you're nothing more than a badge whore.

There is much more to Porsche than just #s. Not sure why people only focus on #s. GT-R has shaken the sports car world for the better and in the end will improve the entire segment, because competitors will look to go past what the GT-R has established. I just hope they do it without breaking our banks!

I dont agree at all if you have a nissan sports car that is pretty much equal to a porsche 997 turbo then I think thats pretty impressive for nissan now the GTR is a spin off of the skyline and even that car was hanging with the porsche's I just think your a HATER for real

From the drivers comments:

In previous threads I compared (using old GPS data) myself driving my 997TT and my GT-R on the same track (Reno-Fernley). The GT-R was 2-3 seconds faster, but there were a lot of other variables (weather, driver skill (GT-R test was a year later-- I hope I got better) etc.).

I just got back from a day at Thunderhill with Hooked on Driving. I had both cars with me.

Some pics: http://gallery.me.com/cnicholson1#100144

I am not a super hardcore track driver (let alone racer). Just a guy that enjoys DE days. My previous fast lap in 997TT was a 2:07. That was before they resurfaced the track. There is debate in the paddock as to whether new surface is faster (because smoother) or slower (because still too new and grip is still building).

Anyway, here are the results:

First session out on GT-R: tires squealing. Car felt heavy. Had to turn in later. I was sure I was slow. But I did a 2:08!! On my third session, I did a 2:05. Two seconds FASTER than my previous fastest lat in 997TT (after 12+ track days in the 997TT on that track).

Best lap in GT-R: http://www.viddler.com/explore/Cnicholson/videos/2/

After lunch, I switched to 997TT. First session, best lap 2:07. Next (last) session, I was gridded up next to a buddy who is very fast and has a very fast 993TT. We where tearing it up. I got back in to check my times and noticed that my TraqMate had come unplugged!!!! So no solid data. My friend's traqmate showed him doing 2:04s with one lap at 2:03.9. We were pretty evenly matched, but I think he is a a bit faster.

Using a bit of judgement, I am going to say that on that day, by the end of the day, I was a bit faster in the 997TT (perhaps by a second-- maybe 1.5 seconds). But: My 997TT has 700HP and hits 140MPH on main straight (versus 135 for GT-R) and I know I am getting closer to limits on 997TT.

It is amazing how easy the GT-R is to jump in and drive fast very confidently, but I still need to learn the car.

Conclusion: Stock for Stock, the 997TT HAS NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER versus a stock GT-R. GT-R versus a modded 997TT would be a driver's race.

dont forget about the SPEC-V edition btw

you mean the company that dropped out motorsports after 1998 because of the competition from audi, bmw, merc, toyota and honda?

come on, Porsche's motorsports days are long gone for at least 10 years.

Kazutoschi Mizuno - main nissan GT-R engineer was before working on GT-R leading nissan`s racing teams in 90`s in various races including 24h le mans with nissan r390 gt1 car and took 3rd spot in 1998 so he has some knowledge how to build sports car , what he proved with nissan gt-r .
If you think that this is to small racing experience could you also list Ultimate Driving Machine victories in major international races becouse they`re known of their sports cars .

Toyota and Honda's F1 teams have not been able to match BMW F1's performance in the past couple of years but at the same time they didn't buy out a whole team in the past couple of years like how BMW bought out Sauber.

Speaking of F1, where is *almighty* Porsche in F1?

TurboSpyder , as you listed , BMW hadn`t had "Ultimate Racing Machines" in major international races ( except one ) until 3 years ago , then they bought Sauber F1 team with engineers and refinance this team and are working for success . So without this racing experience until 3 years ago in major int races they were producing their "Ultimate Driving Machines" , exactly like nissan with their ultimate fast GT-R now .

So you agree with me . That`s good that you see the facts .


"http://dimequarterly.tierranet.com/Autoweek.html"

And what ? Are MacPherson struts in front, semi-trailing arms in back BMW invention ? I don`t think so . BMW 2002 like Nissan 510 were introduced in 1968 so how could Nissan`s 510 suspension be influenced by BMW`s 2002 suspension . NONSENSE .

Wow , I see that thought persecute you for last 6 days .
If you so much like this word "copy" , I will also use it :
First of all BMW copied MacPherson struts from Ford Vedette and who first used semi-trailing arms in I don`t know but I will do research in future .

TurboSpyder , it wasn`t copy , even when you look at both cars they are looking very different , but it was definitelly following , like let say a Volkswagen Tiguan is now following a Toyota Rav4 , the 510 entered to the Bmw 1600 market niche , and it used similar suspension arrangement , and that`s all but other carmakers also used that suspension arrangement , not only datsun 510 . Here is about Datsun engines based on Austin :

http://www.earlydatsun.com/austin.html

That is what Clarkson said about first datsuns that arrived to britain ( 3:00 ):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3GFnI_T3_w

Do you see connection between two links above ? Quite innovative I think .

And I really curious what that Mercedes based head mean , SOHC design was then unique only for the Mercedes or something other , becouse that could mean almost everything , for example the same as Datsun based on Austin which was heavilly modified ( link above ) , that`s probably why they don`t used word "copy" but "based" or even " designs of their own" which clearly mean "not copy" .

And of course BMW didn`t invent MacPherson , there were also other cars before BMW with trailing arms ( semi-trailing is modified trailing arms suspension ) .

No they copied *idea* of suspension arrangement ( copy is something identical if you don`t know ) , but car wasn`t a "copy" , where do you see they`re looking similar , not to mention about that engines what I wrote earlier . I think you have a problem becouse you try to prove that Japanese only copy but you can`t , they`re no like Chinese with exception of few cars and technologies . We have earlier discusion about Japanese innovations so I will not saying the same another time . I can also give you a link about most innovative countries , this have also connection with cars becouse car industry is generating a lot of patents ( certainly more connection with car industry than number of nobel prize winners what you so like to call when you haven`t arguments ) :

http://a330.g.akamai.net/7/330/25828/20070607182505/graphics.eiu.com/upload/portal/CiscoInnoSmallFile.pdf

TurboSpyder , a bit of objectivism from you would be good .

If you so like imitations theme , look where Germans looked for inspiration of their Porsche 924 :

Design:
Back:
Jensen Interceptor
http://www.wwebw.com/jensen/images/wDSCN0830.jpg
http://home.hiwaay.net/~tjhiggin/hwystar/tvmcbig_files/image002.jpg
Porsche 924
http://www.carlustblog.com/images/2008/03/24/porsche_back.jpg
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/porsche-924-2.jpg
Front:
Triumph TR7
http://www.adclassix.com/images/76triumphtr7.jpg
or Lotus Elcat
http://www.club-lotus.fr/typo3temp/pics/7b1912dd83.jpg
Porsche 924
http://www.carlustblog.com/images/2008/03/24/porsche_front.jpg
http://www.pistonheads.com/pics/news/16161/924a-L.jpg

So , designing it they took inspiration from British sports cars .
For engineering they looked to Italy for front engine with REAR TRANSAXLE arrangement .

I wonder if that journalist from Autoweek who wrote about datsun 510 would write something like that above .

924 had VW engine .
But this wasn`t of course 5 valve per cylinder 1.8 or 2.0 VW/Audi engine based on Mitsubishi`s concept of 5 valve per cylinder introduced in 3G8 engine in Dangan model several years before the VW/Audi .


"http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20080629/380_CBOFC_innov_080630.jpg"

What`s that , I can do something like that in paint .

Here`s article that separates facts from myths ( also some myths about design that are in 1986 Autoweek article that you quoted ) :

http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/article.cgi?section=profiles&article=datsun510rotary

The Spec-V edition will be pretty awesome. Can't wait to see what they put into it, as the normal GT-R already takes down the competition.

Oh, so the GT-R wins by cheating now?

GT-R didn't use slick tires, therefore, it's perfectly comaprable to other tires out there. The grip is from its AWD system and suspension tuning, not all from the tires.

Don't be naive to force eveyone to use the same tires. This is not F1. GT-R will beat 911 easily even w/ the same tire.

Right...let's compare the mighty Porsche with a...ha, ha, ha...Nissan...ha, ha, ha...

F1 driver-
GT-R can't be had for 70k. 90k more likely.
Outstanding performance even for that.

I'm going by MSRPs.

Let me say it's great numbers performed by both cars. First off I think the 700hp 997 had too much power for a track like that. Second I want to see a GT-R with a manual transmission so there is a MT vs MT. The GT-R with the DSG set up is almost too easy to drive. The Porsche takes more skill to drive and those who drive well will appreciate a car like the 997. However if the GT-R is in manual transmission I don't doubt that person who can drive can do great times as well. I'm not hating on the GT-R or trying to make excuses for Porsche. Lets be realistic here. Both those cars are very very fast but not every GT-R owner has to the skill level to drive a MT car well and that's why I always give Porsche owners credit. The GT-R is more of a point and shoot type of car and considering how close some of those times we have seen in other comparos it's pretty good.

Not hating so fanboys don't be deboosting me haha.

The whole manual transmission debate should no longer exist. Many racing Porsches now have sequential transmissions that do not require clutch engagement for upshifts. I've never understood the "too-easy-to-drive" argument. Isn't that one of the main reasons why the 997TT has AWD in the first place? And to be the devil's advocate, who in the world wants a car that is "hard-to-drive"? Isn't that why, over the years, Porsche has engineered all that wicked oversteer out of the 911?

Hear Hear.

I meant, an average Joe can drive a GT-R but an average Joe may not be able to drive the 911 because they don't know how to properly drive a MT car, that's all.

With a flip of a paddle shift is a lot more easy than switching gears with your arm while trying to maneuver around someone. The DSG allows the driver to concentrate more on the driving but it sacrifices that with the driving experience of an old fashioned manual. Like i said earlier, both are outstanding cars and anyone who owns one of those two are fortunate people. Although some Porsche owners have ordered the GT-R I still think it's a different market. European exotics and High Performance imports. You can't forget the Porsche is also a luxury car at the same time, whereas the GT-R is performance car first wearing an econobox nameplate, but not like that really matters. It never did and never will when it came to the GT-R. I just wished they made the GT-R more dramatic in design and make it sound like an actual super car to go with those performance figures. I test drove one this weekend, I was emotionless aside from the occasional heart beating fast.

My two cents.

The semi automated transmission has been in use in F1 since the 80's. I don't think anyone running around the Hockenheimring is using a shift it yourself set up.

My car is a mt car and I must say it may be slightly faster if driven perfectly than the automatic version and thats because the automatic version isnt dual clutch or whatever you want to call it. Wouldnt you rather concentrate more on driving then shifting? I know i would and in traffic shifting stinks(after all this still is the real world) MT is like having a rotary phone. If you chose stick and get beat dont make excuses that it is because you had MT. Nobody told you to get MT

The GT-R has great impressive performance.
But I'd still rather have a Porsche since I've always wanted one since I was a little kid.
Now if only I could comfortably afford either of them..

Or both together like the guy in the article.

The R32 Gt-r dominated the porsche of the same time on the nurburgring by 25 seconds. Skylines have always held records on the ring. porsche is good but they are not unbeatable. why do people belive that sort of foolishness. ferrari, lamborghini, porsche, all of them are just cars, and at any point in time another manufacturer that has set theirs sights on beating them, CAN beat them. most manufacturers are just worried about the price involved in doing so. I am sure most of you will know that the Nissan Gt-r lapped the top gear test track just 10ths slower than an enzo. now thats a great car!

Sadly the idea that one needs special skills to drive any car is just plain backwards. That’s like saying it’s better to fly a propeller plane because it takes more skill than a Fighter jet. If you put a competent driver behind the wheel of a car than can amplify your skills, such as a GT-R, then you will be able to go even faster. In the end it’s probably personal preference than anything else. They even make slush boxes that go shift faster than manuals now. Any way you look at it, you will never convince me that it’s better to drive a car that has “character” over a car that will leave you in the dust.

slu1979
The GTR is just a car like all the others, so it's beatable too!

Aren't any of you tired of this topic?

If you want a Porsche, you by a Porsche.

If you want a GT-R, you buy a GT-R.

There's nothing else to it.