2008 PARIS MOTOR SHOW PREVIEW: Audi Releases The 333 HP S4 And S4 Avant

2008 PARIS MOTOR SHOW PREVIEW: Audi Releases The 333 HP S4 And S4 Avant
Audi is introducing its new sporty top models in the midsize class – the S4 and the S4 Avant. Their engine, a three-liter V6 with direct fuel injection and mechanical turbocharging, delivers a powerful 245 kW (333 hp). It accelerates the S4 to 100 km/h (62.14 mph) in just 5.1 seconds, but on average only uses 9.7 liters of fuel per 100 km (24.25 US mpg). The quattro permanent all-wheel drive system transfers its power to the road in style, which is then converted by the sport suspension into dynamic handling. Upon request, Audi can equip the new S4 and S4 Avant with innovative technologies that further increase their lead over the competition. The seven-speed S tronic changes gears with lightning speed, and the new sport differential distributes the torque as needed between the rear wheels. The new Audi S4 will be unveiled to the public for the first time at the Paris Auto Show from October 2 to 19.

The heart of the new S4 and S4 Avant is a completely redesigned engine. The 3.0 TFSI, the newest member of the Audi V-engine family, is an outstanding example of how the brand with the four rings blends performance and efficiency. The V6 generates its power from a displacement of 2,995 cc, is equipped with a supercharger, and delivers 245 kW (333 hp). The sedan sprints to100 km/h (62.14 mph) in just 5.1 seconds, and the Avant in 5.2 seconds: they both have an electronically governed top speed of 250 km/h (155.34 mph).

The “T” in the 3.0’s TFSI nomenclature no longer merely stands for “turbo”, but rather for the concept of supercharging in general – extensive testing on the big V6 has proven the superiority of mechanical charging. In conjunction with direct injection it is far superior to twin turbochargers, both in terms of packaging and of starting performance and  responsiveness.

The compressor is so compact that it easily fits inside the 90-degree V of the cylinder banks, in place of the intake manifold. Two four-vane rotary pistons counter-rotate inside the turbocharger at up to 23,000 rpm. Two charge-air coolers are integrated into the housing and are connected to a separate coolant circuit. An impressive array of measures keeps the noise generated by the compressor to a minimum.

The engine-driven belt that powers the mechanical charger provides full thrust right from idling speed. The 3.0 TFSI delivers its maximum 440 Nm (324.53 lb-ft) at 2,500 rpm and maintains this constantly until 4,850 rpm. In fourth gear, the vehicle accelerates from 80 to 120 km/h (49.71 to 74.56 mph) in just 4.4 seconds. Thanks to the extremely short gas paths, the sonorous, supercharged V6 responds spontaneously to the throttle, even more so than a naturally aspirated engine of the same displacement.

Furthermore, the new 3.0 TFSI achieves exemplary fuel efficiency. On average, the sedan uses 9.7 liters of fuel per 100 km (24.25 US mpg), and the Avant 9.9 liters per 100 km (23.76 US mpg) – an improvement of 3.4 liters (26 percent) compared with its predecessor. The Audi technology of gasoline direct injection was what made this great efficiency possible in the first place. Unlike conventional concepts, it allows the compressor to be located behind the throttle valve. In view of the low density of the intake air at loads below supercharging level and when coasting, its rotors are free-running and the amount of power required to drive them is low.

Dynamism and efficiency: The new seven-speed S tronic

The V6 power in the new S4 and S4 Avant flows into a six-speed transmission, fitted as standard, which shifts quickly and precisely. As an option, Audi offers a state-of-the-art dual-clutch transmission – the seven-speed S tronic is extremely dynamic and highly efficient. The driver has the option of driving in fully automatic mode or selecting the gears with paddles on the steering wheel or directly with the shift lever – all of which provide impressively quick gearshifts. The gearshift feel is dynamic, comfortable and very precise – typically Audi.

The seven-speed S tronic consists of two separate transmissions and uses two multidisk clutches that control the various gears. The large K1 clutch guides the power via a solid shaft to the pinions for gears 1, 3, 5 and 7. A hollow shaft rotates around the solid shaft; it is connected to the compact K2 clutch, which is integrated within its larger counterpart and controls the pinions for gears 2, 4, 6 and reverse gear.

Both transmission structures are continuously active, but only one is powered at a time by the engine. For example, when the driver accelerates in third gear, the fourth gear is already engaged in the second transmission structure. The shifting process takes place as the clutch changes – K1 opens and K2 closes with lightning speed. This process takes only a few hundredths of a second and is completed without interrupting traction. It is so comfortable and smooth that the driver hardly notices it.

The seven-speed S tronic is designed for maximum efficiency. It operates with very high efficiency and its intelligent control system maximizes fuel economy in automatic mode. With its wide gear ratio spread of 8.0:1 the seven-speed S tronic easily exploits the tremendous power and superior torque of the 3.0 TFSI.

The quattro permanent all-wheel drive system transfers power to the road with
supreme ease. Under regular driving conditions, it sends 40 percent of its
torque to the front wheels and 60 percent to the rear wheels – a slightly rearbiased,
sporty characteristic. Where necessary, it can vary distribution within
fractions of a second.

The quattro drive system ensures safe self-steering characteristics, high stability and excellent traction in comparison with rear-wheel-drive competitors.

Customized torque distribution:
The sport differential with Audi drive select

The new, active sport differential ideally complements the quattro drive system and lends it even greater fascination. When the steering wheel is turned or the car accelerated in a corner, power is redirected in a controlled manner to the outer rear wheel, literally pushing the vehicle through the corner. The system intervenes to counter any signs of understeer or oversteer. For the driver, this means reduced effort at the steering wheel and even higher lateral
acceleration.

The active sport differential is a new type of rear-axle differential. A superposition gear was added to both the left and right sides of the classic differential; it rotates ten percent faster than the wheel’s drive shaft.

Both components can be connected through a multidisk clutch, which runs in an oil bath, and is operated by an electro-hydraulic actuator. In most driving situations, the clutch can divert almost the complete input torque to one wheel in this way.

Controlled by an array of sensors and a high-speed computer, the active sport differential needs less than 100 milliseconds to redirect power. Drivers can adapt their manner of driving, along with characteristics for the load changes, to three performance maps. Unlike competitors’ systems, the Audi sport differential is just as effective when the engine is driving the wheels as it is on the overrun or when the car is coasting freely.

The new Audi S4 and S4 Avant are well-trained athletes. Their five-link front axle and the self-tracking trapezoidal-link rear axle are of a highly sophisticated design; both axles are made almost entirely of aluminum and are therefore very lightweight. The low-mounted steering gear transmits the steering forces to the wheels without any lag time and gives the driver a precise and sensitive road feel.

The spontaneity of Audi’s new midsize athletes is fascinating, and they possess the precise reactions of a thoroughbred sports car. In these transmissions, the differential is positioned in front of the clutch, which made it possible to move the engine 154 mm (6.06 in) forwards compared with the predecessor model. This unusual layout perfectly evens out the axle loads, and also affords the long wheelbase of 2,811 mm (9.22 ft) exceptional stability.

The chassis of both new S models received stiffer axle bearings, and the sporty tuning with stiff shock absorbers puts the chassis 20 mm (0.79 in) closer to the road. Huge high-performance and fade-resistant brakes sit behind the 18-inch and optional 19-inch cast aluminum wheels. The black-painted brake calipers – at the front with the S4 logo – grip the ventilated disks with newly developed brake pads.

Audi drive select: The driving dynamics system

The Audi drive select driving dynamics system is a further high-end technology featured on the new S4 and S4 Avant. It accesses the throttle response characteristics, the shift points for the seven-speed S tronic and supports the speed-dependent servotronic steering. With the press of a button, the driver can decide whether these systems should operate in “comfort,” “auto” or “dynamic” mode. If the vehicle is equipped with the MMI operating system, a fourth mode is available which the driver can program according to his own personal tastes and preferences.

Audi drive select can only be ordered in combination with one or more of three additional technologies – the sport differential, adaptive control for the shock absorbers, or dynamic steering, which is an additional high-tech solution. Its zero-play superposition gear, which is driven by an electric motor, varies the ratio by almost 100 percent depending on the speed being driven. In terms of driver safety, the dynamic steering assists the ESP stabilization program by using steering intervention to keep the new S4 and S4 Avant on track when cornering at the handling limits. In many instances, the system renders ESP intervention superfluous.

For the adaptive damper control system, hydraulic gas-pressurized shock absorbers are used which operate by means of additional, electrically actuated valves. They control the flow of hydraulic liquid, thus regulating the shockabsorbing characteristics. A high-performance control unit analyzes the signals it receives from 14 sensors, and calculates the damping power for each individual wheel 1,000 times per second.

An athletic look: The design

Both the Audi S4 and the S4 Avant look athletic and muscular on the road. Some of the most striking modifications to the exterior design are the special aprons, the aluminum-look exterior mirrors, the 18-inch S-design light-alloy wheels, the side rocker panels, the restrained spoiler at the rear and the quadruple exhaust system. The xenon plus headlights with daytime running lights and the rear lights are further distinctive touches.

The interior also underscores the sporty expertise that is the hallmark of both new S models. The sports seats have electric lumbar supports and pull-out thigh supports, and the instrument panel features gray dials with white needles. They also bear the S4 emblems, as do the multifunction sport steering wheel and the key. The interior is in black, with brushed aluminum inlays. Carbon and birch wood inlays are also available, as are stainless steel mesh inlays.

Optional assistance systems provide the driver with even greater control on the road. The adaptive cruise control (ACC) regulates the distance to the vehicle in front, and braking guard issues warnings regarding possible rear-end  collisions. The Audi side assist makes changing lanes safer; the Audi parking system advanced makes backing into a parking space easier.

With regard to multimedia, Audi offers an attractive technology package. The communications and entertainment technologies portfolio includes the competition-beating MMI operating system, various types of radio and sound systems all the way up to the high-end solution from Bang & Olufsen, two navigation systems, an iPod interface, and a highly convenient Bluetooth car phone.

Luxurious features such as the three-zone deluxe automatic air conditioning and the dynamic cornering light system known as adaptive light round out the optional equipment.

Audi will begin delivery of its new S models in March 2009.


911gt2911gt2 - 9/23/2008 8:43:21 AM
+7 Boost
"The Audi drive select driving dynamics system is a further high-end technology featured on the new S4 and S4 Avant. It accesses the throttle response characteristics, the shift points for the seven-speed S tronic and supports the speed-dependent servotronic steering. With the press of a button, the driver can decide whether these systems should operate in “comfort,” “auto” or “dynamic” mode. If the vehicle is equipped with the MMI operating system, a fourth mode is available which the driver can program according to his own personal tastes and preferences."

-I swear Iv seen this before I just cant remember what other car manufacturer originally offered this...hmmm


HeyhuubHeyhuub - 9/23/2008 8:49:23 AM
-5 Boost
VW Phaeton back in 2002?


AudiphileAudiphile - 9/23/2008 3:21:07 PM
0 Boost
The Volkswagen Phaeton, the current Audi A8, and the Bentley Continental Flying Spur have air suspensions with "lift", "comfort", "automatic" and "dynamic" settings. However, the only parameters that are adjusted by these settings are the ground clearance and the damping characteristics of the suspension - throttle response, gearbox shift points, steering ratio, etc. are not affected.


aarononymousaarononymous - 9/23/2008 7:57:02 PM
+2 Boost
I think the answer is none, are you thinking active swaybars from BMW?


mclaren428mclaren428 - 9/23/2008 9:17:37 PM
+1 Boost
M3,M5,M6,750i.


aarononymousaarononymous - 9/23/2008 10:11:38 PM
-1 Boost
You're right, BMW does seem to offer a similar variable-ratio steering rack but I could only find it on the 750i in the BMWUSA website.

either way adjustable suspension is nothing new but the adjustable steering ratio sounds exciting. This package is available as an option on all A4/S4 & A5/S5 vehicles.



AudiNewEnglandAudiNewEngland - 9/23/2008 8:45:17 AM
-1 Boost
If the B8 RS4 doesn't come stateside, I'm buying this car. Such an improvement from the B7. Wish an avant was coming to us though.


LexSucksLexSucks - 9/23/2008 8:56:22 AM
-1 Boost
No DSG? Guess you cant have it all?


LexSucksLexSucks - 9/23/2008 8:59:17 AM
+5 Boost
It's called "S-Tronic", cool. You guys are looking at my next car.


1dott81dott8 - 9/23/2008 9:22:17 AM
+4 Boost
009 - what happened to the article i submitted last night? it was this same exact one. what happened to the bmw article i submitted as well?


Agent009Agent009 - 9/23/2008 9:28:54 AM
-10 Boost
There was a technical issue with some of the submissions last night. They wouldn't post, but you did get it to me first out of 6.


HeyhuubHeyhuub - 9/23/2008 9:30:49 AM
-1 Boost
A 335i does 0-100kp/h in 5.6 seconds. This S4 in 5.1, so i don't know how you came up with the 335i beeing faster.


Need4SpeedNeed4Speed - 9/23/2008 9:37:43 AM
0 Boost
'Heyhuub'...I don't know what web site or magazine you got that off of but numerous sites have clocked the 335i around 5.0 - 5.1 sec 0 to 60...I don't think I've ever seen 5.6.


HeyhuubHeyhuub - 9/23/2008 9:42:11 AM
+4 Boost
First of, i am talking about 0-100kp/h (0-62mp/h) just like the Audi article here. Second, we are talking about factory numbers here. The official factory 0-62 numbers of the 335i is 5.6, this S4 5.1.
Seeing as the S5 also does 0-62 in 5.1 officialy and has clocked 0-60 in 4.5 seconds in magazines i have no doubt it will be no different with this S4.


1dott81dott8 - 9/23/2008 9:56:06 AM
0 Boost
if audi put out a light weight car with 999 hp and other cars had 68 hp most people on this site would still say the audi is under powered.

i am convinced that this site is full of bmw fanboys. look at the posts, if someone says something good about an audi (without even mentioning bmw) they get de-boosted. if you don't believe me, check every Audi article on this site.

(watch how many boosts i get just for my upcoming comment) bmw is the greatest car ever.


Agent009Agent009 - 9/23/2008 10:10:05 AM
-3 Boost
adamsaf723 - none of the models you mention were AWD. So factor that in and tell us what you get...

apples to apples please.




B7FANB7FAN - 9/23/2008 11:01:14 AM
+3 Boost
I like it....I think it could be a great competitor...I am an car enthusiast.....not a enthusiast hater like some people Star, amazinBimmer, Lexsucks but whose naming names


bmwcsbmwcs - 9/23/2008 11:26:42 AM
+3 Boost
The BMW 335 coupe is faster around a track than the s5


car750icar750i - 9/23/2008 11:31:39 AM
+4 Boost
"adamsaf723 - none of the models you mention were AWD. So factor that in and tell us what you get... "

maybe audi should make rwd cars...


HeyhuubHeyhuub - 9/23/2008 11:36:49 AM
+1 Boost
Well i did some searching and found the following track times.

Track S5 335i Coupe
Nordschleife 8:26 8:26
Hockenheim Short 1:17.2 1:17.8
Autozeitung test track 1:44.6 1:45.8
SportAuto wet handling 1:29.8 1:35.8
Serres Racing Circuit 1:34.80 1:35.25

Looks to me the 335i at best matches the S5 on the track.


1dott81dott8 - 9/23/2008 11:52:02 AM
+5 Boost
bmwcs - how many people actually buy these cars to track them? bmw builds great cars, Audi builds great cars, MB builds great cars and so on and so forth.

fanboys really ruin this site.


bmwcsbmwcs - 9/23/2008 12:09:49 PM
0 Boost
you forgot the fifth gear test where the 335 was faster, and they said it was the car they preferred.

where did you get the times?

"how many people actually buy these cars to track them? bmw builds great cars, Audi builds great cars, MB builds great cars and so on and so forth."

not many thats why most of the articles iv seen the 335 did beat the s5.


bmwcsbmwcs - 9/23/2008 12:34:00 PM
+1 Boost
is this turbo charged or super charged?


HeyhuubHeyhuub - 9/23/2008 12:36:25 PM
-2 Boost
Yeah at Fifth gear the 335i beat the S5 by just a tenth. So they where more or less even.

Those times i got from www.fastestlaps.com


Bmw8terBmw8ter - 9/23/2008 12:55:50 PM
-1 Boost
It's Supercharged...bmwcs.


HyundaiHyundai - 9/23/2008 2:39:19 PM
+2 Boost
adamsaf723, if that's the only thing you care about, get a speed bike and forget the luxuries of a car.


HeyhuubHeyhuub - 9/23/2008 4:33:08 PM
+3 Boost
Again you are looking at 0-60 times. The BMW 335xi is rated at 5.5 seconds 0-62.


Need4SpeedNeed4Speed - 9/23/2008 9:36:07 AM
+2 Boost
333 bhp is the same hp rating as the last gen e46 M3. Audi should have avoided that number...should have tried for at least 340 hp. It's also lower hp rating than the last S4...what gives?


HeyhuubHeyhuub - 9/23/2008 9:39:05 AM
-2 Boost
The last M3 had 343hp in Europe and seeing as Audi doesn't care much about the US they probably couldn't be bothered.


AudiphileAudiphile - 9/23/2008 8:37:21 PM
-1 Boost
The S4 was designed to compete with the 335i/xi, not the M3. The RS5 and RS4 are clearly targeted at the M3.

The S4 has a clear horsepower and torque advantage over the 335i. The sport-oriented S4 appears (on paper at least) to handle better than the Grand-Touring-oriented S5, which matched (more or less) the 335i on the track. However, the S4 is heavier than the 335i, so who knows who might prevail in an S4-vs-335i match? It will be fun to watch about a year from now.

This supercharged V6 may have slightly less hp than the 4.2 V8 on the old S4, but has more torque and (according to Audi) gets 26% better fuel mileage. I consider that a win-win situation for the "blown" engine.





mmmpowrmmmpowr - 9/23/2008 10:27:52 PM
+1 Boost
audiphile - I don't agree, the S4 is clearly competitor with the M3. As Audi even stated their RS derivatives will be 'lightweight' performance models which would compete along the lines of the M3 CSL. The A4 2.0 = 328i and the A4 3.2 = 335i.


aarononymousaarononymous - 9/23/2008 11:18:17 PM
-2 Boost
I disagree, this thing is closer to 335 than M3 & the RS4 goes head-to-head with the M3. The models don't line up exactly so instead of getting a 335 direct competetor you can go just below or just above with Audi.

Forget what someone from Audi said about the RS4 competing with the M3 CSL, it just doesn't make sense to exclude it from competing against the M3. If they want to make the RS4 lighter that's great.


GermanNutGermanNut - 9/23/2008 9:36:34 AM
-4 Boost
The Audi S4 will OBVIOUSLY be faster than the 335i at the start and perhaps even when speeds increase.

The S4 has a 25 lb/ft torque advantage over the 335i. To keep all that torque on the ground the S4 has Quattro AWD and has S-tronic which is Audi speak for DSG. Not to mention the S4 has a 33 horsepower advantage over the 335i.

However, the S4 will likely cost around $10K more base than the 335i.


budfrogS4budfrogS4 - 9/23/2008 10:32:19 AM
-1 Boost
Hopefully the same is true with the new S4. With all of that torque, you'd think it produces more than the 330 rating. Regardless, the numbers are very good for that engine. More torque than the old V8 with much better fuel economy (i'm thinking 21/28/24). The 335i gets 17/26/21 for a little less power.

I still wish it was a TDI.


txrippertxripper - 9/23/2008 11:30:34 AM
+2 Boost
both the 335i and the is350 have clocked 0-60 times below the 5 second mark


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 9/23/2008 11:35:21 AM
+10 Boost
"The Audi S4 will OBVIOUSLY be faster than the 335i at the start and perhaps even when speeds increase."

really? That's "all-caps obvious" to you, huh? Mind if I ask why? Because I wouldn't be surprised if the two were virtually dead even. The power figures Audi is giving are right in line with what the generally accepted figures for what BMW's engine is actually producing, and remember the motives behind the stated numbers were different (BMW went low because they didn't want to step on the toes of E46 M3 owners when they announced the figures for their engine even though the engine was making more power than they were saying, Audi needs them to be higher than BMWs stated figures and close to the outgoing S model). Until someone actually tests both I wouldn't be jumping to any "OBVIOUS" conclusions, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't a drivers race between them.

Anyway, every indication is that Audi has hit a homerun with the new A4 as far as the vehicle itself is concerned, my only concern is cost. A loaded 2009 A4 3.2 can now breach $50k, making it essentially the same price as a loaded 335i/335xi but significantly down on performance (though admittedly the Audi will have some features the BMW will not at that price). In fact they've priced the A4 3.2 higher than a MB C350, which will likely offer the most direct competition performance-wise, and that's before MB puts the new direct injected 306hp 3.5L in there. So how much more is the S4 going to be then? If it's going to compete with the 335 and C350 (with new engine) it needs to at least be in the ballpark pricewise. Plus there's not a ton of room between there and an M3 or C63. Audi needs to be very careful not to cross that invisible line or their (very likely excellent) vehicle will price itself right out of contention. Hopefully that doesn't happen.


HSCenterconsoleHSCenterconsole - 9/23/2008 9:47:49 AM
+4 Boost
I'll be curious to see if Audi has improved their front/rear weight distribution. That numerical breakdown is notably absent in their press release, so I doubt it.


AudiphileAudiphile - 9/23/2008 10:18:16 AM
-6 Boost
In Car and Driver's September 2008 review of the A4 3.2 sedan, the front/rear weight distribution was 55%/45%.


AudiphileAudiphile - 9/23/2008 8:43:21 PM
+4 Boost
Why would I be deboosted for simply stating the statistics in a Car & Driver article?


aarononymousaarononymous - 9/23/2008 8:56:06 PM
0 Boost
I know, right? That's Autospies for you...

I'm going to deboost you know for questioning it...


AudiphileAudiphile - 9/24/2008 12:51:26 PM
0 Boost
aarononmymous - LOL!



JaybrnJaybrn - 9/23/2008 10:30:01 AM
+1 Boost
At first I was like "What the !?!?..." with that list of competitors but, the S4 is the largest sedan, the most fuel efficient by a significant margin and is the only with AWD of the bunch, likely the cheapest too even when loaded up.


AudiphileAudiphile - 9/23/2008 10:20:33 AM
+1 Boost
If Audi brings this car to the U.S. in March, I'm buying it, especially if they bring the S4 Avant over.


AudiNewEnglandAudiNewEngland - 9/23/2008 10:27:44 AM
0 Boost
No avant for us and delivery date is fall 09


AudiphileAudiphile - 9/23/2008 10:21:46 AM
+3 Boost
009,

Is that March delivery date for both the European and U.S. markets? If not, when will the S4 arrive in America?



BremboBrembo - 9/23/2008 10:27:25 AM
+1 Boost
I love it. Now is that mpg highway or city?


budfrogS4budfrogS4 - 9/23/2008 10:48:39 AM
-1 Boost
I can't really say for sure but assuming a 7 mpg difference between city and hwy, it should be 21/28.


budfrogS4budfrogS4 - 9/23/2008 11:14:28 AM
0 Boost
24mpg combined.


BremboBrembo - 9/23/2008 11:30:33 AM
+3 Boost
that would be awesome!


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 9/23/2008 1:34:03 PM
+5 Boost
that really would be awesome, in fact I think it's probably "too awesome". Audi themselves seems to be offering conflicting information:

"Furthermore, the new 3.0 TFSI achieves exemplary fuel efficiency. On average, the sedan uses 9.7 liters of fuel per 100 km (24.25 US mpg), and the Avant 9.9 liters per 100 km (23.76 US mpg) – an improvement of 3.4 liters (26 percent) compared with its predecessor."

We'll start with the European ratings. Audi says 9.7L/100km above. By comparison the BMW 335i is rated at 9.1 or 9.2L/100km depending on transmission (lower numbers are better). That European figure of 9.1L/100km equates to 26mpg, which is what the car is rated at on the highway here (in the U.S. that same 335i is rated at 17/26 with a 20mpg average), and it's certainly not what you'd expect to average in a combined cycle. So right off the bat, I wouldn't count on those figures being realistic here.

Also, that "predecessor" they're talking about was a 4.2L V8, and the S4 with that engine was rated at 13/20 or 14/21 (an average of 14/15mpg) depending on transmission. I wouldn't doubt this engine is 26% more efficient than that V8 (I'd sure hope it is), but if that's the case it means averaging 17-18mpg, NOT 24mpg. For comparison sake the 2009 A4 3.2 Quattro is rated at 17/26 with a 20mpg average, just like the 335i.

I think you're setting yourself up to be sorely disappointed if you think the much more powerful supercharged 3.0L S4 is going to up the rating on that 3.2L by 20%. Be happy if it even matches it. My guess is you're going to see 17/25 here in the states, with a 19-20mpg average. And that's pretty good, just don't get too caught up in 24mpg figures because I promise you, they're not "real".


ghosthunterghosthunter - 9/23/2008 7:12:31 PM
-1 Boost
could not agree more to JRobUSC's post.

you gonna remember that euro cycle is much more optimatic than EPA cycle. I have no idea why didn't they adope a more accurate test method. last time i went to europe, their traffic is just as slow as L.A.



JRobUSCJRobUSC - 9/23/2008 8:00:03 PM
+3 Boost
ghosthunter, I'll take it a step further. If we use Audi's European cycle figure of 9.7L/100km for the new S4 versus BMW's 9.1L/100km for the 335i, what you have is a difference of 6.6%. The U.S. government rates the 335i at 17/26mpg, 20mpg combined. Extrapolating the Audi figures then puts that vehicle at at expected 16/24mpg (which like the BMW means the U.S. highway rating matches up with the European combined rating), and an expected average of 18-19mpg.

That's not bad by any stretch. In fact it's actually pretty good for a 5 second 0-60, good size, all-wheel drive performance luxury sedan (it's only 1-2mpg less than what I get in my 535xi, which isn't going to be the performance car an S4 is). I just see a lot of people drooling over the stated 24mpg figure right now, and I'll guarantee you the real U.S. figures will be closer to what I just put than the 24mpg from the article. If anything that will be the highway rating here.


AudiphileAudiphile - 9/23/2008 8:49:35 PM
0 Boost
You have an excellent point, JRob. That 24-mpg figure is the combined urban/highway average for the European Union's test, not the EPA average. The A4 2.0T has an EPA rating of 21/27, for an average of 23. It's unlikely that the S4 will match its little brother's mileage.

Let's wait until Audi releases the EPA mileage ratings for this car before we draw any conclusions, however.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/23/2008 9:22:29 PM
-1 Boost
I don't think Audi would make a press release saying the car gets 24MPG US combined, if it doesn't. That just doesn't really happen.


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 9/24/2008 2:45:55 PM
+3 Boost
"I don't think Audi would make a press release saying the car gets 24MPG US combined, if it doesn't. That just doesn't really happen."

uh, well, they also said in that same press release the car gets 9.7L/100km, which is where the 24mpg figure came from. A 335i gets 9.1L/100km, which is 26mpg. And yet here in the U.S. that 335i isn't rated at 26mpg combined now is it, it's rated at 20mpg. So, logic would pretty much dictate that the S4, which according to Audi is 6.6% less fuel efficient than a 335i, would rate in the 18-19mpg combined area. As much faith as you have in Audi's press release being accurate (and nowhere in the article did it reference U.S. ratings, all they showed were conversions of the European ratings), I have faith in the belief that the S4 isn't going to miraculously go from being 6.6% less fuel efficient than a 335i in Europe to being 20% more efficient than a 335i in the U.S.

If there's a flaw in there somewhere, feel free to point it out, because it seems pretty obvious to me.


fuzionfuzion - 9/23/2008 11:25:22 AM
+5 Boost
That damned LED Strip of DRLs is so sexy; I was infront of an A5 the other day that was black with tinted windows.. the only lights they had on were the DRL/LEDs and it looks evil as hell.. I love it!


1dott81dott8 - 9/23/2008 1:07:35 PM
+1 Boost
yes, S6 was 1st and then the R8 and so on.


HyundaiHyundai - 9/23/2008 2:42:44 PM
+3 Boost
Kind of like your posts, huh, utahnkid?

LEDs burn less energy, are more reliable, efficient, and provide the function they were employed to do: act as a DRL. Also, they are more flexible by allowing designers to DESIGN something outside the box.


HyundaiHyundai - 9/23/2008 2:44:44 PM
+5 Boost
PS: Anybody I've asked about the A5, new A4, and the R8, regarding the new LED DRLs, have said that they look really cool/interesting/"sweet"/awesome/etc.


BondMI6BondMI6 - 9/23/2008 2:03:15 PM
+2 Boost
Hmmmm.....not impressed. I prefer the 340HP V8-the sound is intoxicating and could give a damn about fuel eco. Audi should have given it the S5's engine and call it a day. Now it's just like every other small sedan with a six...
Thank God Stephen Reil confirmed the next RS4 will get a V8.........


aarononymousaarononymous - 9/23/2008 7:53:28 PM
+1 Boost
You're correct that the V8 S4 sounds amazing. The issue with me is the fuel economy & the lack of tunability with the V8 S4. The only real options are exhaust that do little for performance but make it sound even better. The B6 S4 is getting pretty cheap though and I wouldn't mind stealing one.

This new S4 looks amazing and hase a nice list of features.




aarononymousaarononymous - 9/23/2008 8:07:13 PM
+3 Boost
BTW all I've heard is that the RS4 will get an even more powerful 3.0 supercharged where the S5/RS5 will stay down the V8 route. Appears there is an S5 EVO coming out which sounds like it uses current RS4 motor.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/23/2008 9:20:12 PM
0 Boost
Aaron is right, my car is certainly not a canyon carver. It also gets a little over 16MPG, average. A lighter, more tossable new S4 that gets 8MPG better sounds perfect.

I don't understand. People looked down on the B6/B7 S4 because it wasn't as light and fun as the B5. Now that the B8 is the reincarnation of the B5, only better, people are complaining?


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 9/24/2008 3:02:45 PM
+3 Boost
"It also gets a little over 16MPG, average. A lighter, more tossable new S4 that gets 8MPG better sounds perfect."

I'm sure it does sound perfect. Now take off the Audi fan blinders, S4, and flip back on the logic that I know you possess -- Audi says the car is 26% more fuel efficient than the old S4, NOT 50%. That would put the figures right around 20mpg. Audi also says the car gets 6.6% lower fuel efficiency than a 335i, which is also rated at 20mpg here, so that's 18-19mpg.

So you tell me, which is more likely:

1) that the S4 miraculously gets 50% better fuel economy than the old car when Audi says 26%, AND it somehow gets 6.6% lower economy than a 335i in Europe but somehow gets 20% better fuel economy than one here? Or

2) that every other indicator is correct and it will be rated at 18-20mpg here?

C'mon man, I'm lobbing a meatball right over the plate here for you, I know you know the right answer.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/24/2008 10:31:04 PM
0 Boost
"Audi also says the car gets 6.6% lower fuel efficiency than a 335i, which is also rated at 20mpg here, so that's 18-19mpg."

JESUS, I get it. I apologize for not having memorized the 335i sedan's European MPG cycle. 19MPG is still good enough for me, thanks.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/24/2008 10:32:00 PM
0 Boost
BTW, what does the 335xi sedan get on the Euro cycle? Because that's the one I would look at, not the RWD version. I know its numbers aren't very impressive here (16/24).


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/24/2008 10:34:45 PM
0 Boost
610looper posted this:

"Furthermore, the new 3.0 TFSI achieves exemplary fuel efficiency. On average, the sedan uses 9.7 liters of fuel per 100 km (24.25 US mpg), and the Avant 9.9 liters per 100 km (23.76 US mpg) – an improvement of 3.4 liters (26 percent) compared with its predecessor."

I THOUGHT I saw US in there somewhere.

So, it still doesn't add up. Either you're converting wrong or one of their numbers is wrong.

In fact, I just converted it on a calculator online and it says that 9.7 km/l is 22.82MPG. Which is fantastic.


StarStar - 9/23/2008 4:46:39 PM
+1 Boost
Nice car. If it starts around 45K Audi might have a winner.


aarononymousaarononymous - 9/23/2008 8:04:47 PM
+3 Boost
Looks like Audi is has a nice mix with the A4/S4 lineup...2.0T is a great engine with good fuel economy, loads of torque & is highlt tuneable.

3.2 fits in for those that can't settle for a 4 cylinder or like the smoothness of the V6 but don't care so much for stoplight racing (those people exist??)

S4 loaded with technology, performance & luxury (at a cost) but looks like a real winner.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/23/2008 9:18:10 PM
+2 Boost
I'm not surprised that most people have completely missed the point of this car.

It's perfect, it's the way of the future. They dumped the heavy, gas-guzzling V8 in favor of a far more efficient, more fun and more torquey supercharged V6. It also looks better, is bigger, more luxurious and will probably be the same price as the current S4... if not less. It could cost less to build this one due to the engine.

Who cares that it's less powerful than the current model? It's still faster. You know why? It's more efficient. Audi's brilliant engineers got a lot more out of this car than what people are used to. Sub-5 sec 0-60 times and 24MPG. All in a beautifully finished, well-equipped midsized luxury sedan. Honestly, what's not to like?

I think they've hit a home run here. I wasn't expecting it to be this good--it makes the S5 (and my car) look like an overwrought pig.


HyundaiHyundai - 9/23/2008 10:49:48 PM
+1 Boost
Here, here!

I agree on all points.


AudiphileAudiphile - 9/24/2008 10:03:07 AM
0 Boost
Ditto, S4cabrio.

Up until now I was trying to decide between the new A4 Avant 2.0T and the refreshed BMW 335i/335d. It was not an easy choice. However, this new S4 is the clear choice, and it will probably cost no more than a comparably equipped 335i.

I'm probably going to turn in or sell my leased A8L in December of this year, place an order with my dealer for the S4, and buy/rent/lease a "beater" to hold me over until the S4 arrives.




610looper610looper - 9/24/2008 1:00:34 AM
+2 Boost
Furthermore, the new 3.0 TFSI achieves exemplary fuel efficiency. On average, the sedan uses 9.7 liters of fuel per 100 km (24.25 US mpg), and the Avant 9.9 liters per 100 km (23.76 US mpg) – an improvement of 3.4 liters (26 percent) compared with its predecessor.

Using http://www.tdiclub.com/misc/conversions.html there's nothing wrong with the Audi numbers. Comparing the 15city/21hwy US

http://www.audiworld.com/model/s4/07/S4%20tech%20sedan.pdf




GermanNutGermanNut - 9/24/2008 10:06:19 AM
-1 Boost
Just as people have said before:

Audi has created an excellent car in the 2010 S4.

The car is really a jack of all trades combining unique exterior styling with the LEDs and newly designed rear tailights. The interior is going to be typical Audi-superb with rock-solid solidity.

The engine is now smaller (V6 instead of V8) but is more efficient than the V8 and weighs less. Add to that 325 lb.ft of torque available from just 2,500 rpm and 333 horsepower.

You have yourself a 0-60 time of 5 seconds (likely to be in the mid 4-second range when tested) excellent fuel economy (average 24.3 mpg) striking style, beautiful interior and now all Audi needs to do is price this car at $45k starting and I'm sold.


LexSucksLexSucks - 9/24/2008 12:39:09 PM
+2 Boost
$45K starting point? Never, Audi's have never been about value. Expect this car to cost what an M3 costs while offering 71 hp less.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/24/2008 10:37:27 PM
+1 Boost
The current S4 started at $45K when it came out. When the B7 S4 sedan bowed out last year it started at $47K or $48K. Again... right in between the 335xi and M3. A well-equipped 335xi sedan is a bit over $50K, and the S4 was in the mid $50Ks, while a well-equipped E90 M3 runs anywhere from $60-70,000.

"Audi's have never been about value."

You must be kidding.


AudiphileAudiphile - 9/24/2008 1:51:53 PM
+1 Boost
Actually, LexSucks, if Audi makes good on its claim that the new S4's price will be similar to the old model, the starting price will be around $49,000.

The M3 sedan, on the other hand, starts at $54,500.


HyundaiHyundai - 9/24/2008 3:14:16 PM
+3 Boost
Your posts are always amusing. :)


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/24/2008 10:38:38 PM
+1 Boost
"the s4 gets schooled by a regular 335."

How so? The S4 is faster and more fuel efficient, not to mention more attractive and larger, without being too heavy.


GermanNutGermanNut - 9/24/2008 6:39:04 PM
+1 Boost
S4 with 333 horsepower and 325 lb.ft of torque along with AWD getting schooled by BMW's 335i....NOT IN A MILLION YEARS AMAZINGRETARD.

Hey amazinRetard can you explain to me how a BMW 335i with 0-60 mph state in 5.5 seconds will be faster than an Audi S4 with 0-60 mph stated in 5.1 seconds with added Quattro AWD to help plant all that power to the ground.

Getting jealous there are you AmazinRetard?

Audi has created the jack of all trades that will handily defeat the BMW 335i in acceleration tests, offers better fuel economy and is more expensive.

What now amazinRetard?


GermanNutGermanNut - 9/24/2008 6:43:55 PM
+1 Boost
Wait I forgot to mention this one:

Audi S4 manufacturer stated 0-62 mph: 5.1 seconds
BMW 335i manufacturer stated 0-60: 5.5 seconds

The gap in performance will be even large in favor of Audi's S4.

Audi has really hit a homerun.


GermanNutGermanNut - 9/25/2008 1:47:03 PM
0 Boost
Hey AmazinRetard stop trying to defend your pathetic self as I put you back in your place, yet again.

Audi's S5 with its heavy V8 has gotten form 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and consistently runs a 0-60 time of 5 seconds.

Audi's S4 with a lighter V6 which is supercharged and has 25 more lb.ft of torque available from just 2,500 rpm will easily clear the 4.8 number you state of the 335i.

Weight I forgot to mention, the Audi S4 is also more fuel-efficient than BMW's 335i, the Audi S4 is more expensive than BMW's 335i, the Audi S4 is rarer than BMW's 335i and MOST IMPORTANTLY the Audi S4 will put the BMW 335i back in its place.

What now AmazinRetard?

Keep bringing your filth so I can make you look like a fool....AGAIN!!


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 9/25/2008 2:30:22 PM
+3 Boost
you kids need to stop fighting. And FYI, as wrong as AmazinBimmer is pretty much all of the time, so are you.

"Audi's S5 with its heavy V8 has gotten form 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and consistently runs a 0-60 time of 5 seconds."

meaningless, as the S5 is a different car with a different engine than the S4. The 335i/xi has been clocked from 4.7-5.0 seconds consistently too. Big deal.

"Audi's S4 with a lighter V6 which is supercharged and has 25 more lb.ft of torque available from just 2,500 rpm..."

The 335i engine with "only" 300lb-ft of torque has full torque available from 1500-5000RPM, and "only" has quotes around it because dyno tests have shown it really makes 330-340hp AND 330-340lb-ft. Who cares anyway? On paper the G37 has more power than the 335i. Doesn't seem to matter much in real life though, the G37 is significantly slower.

"...will easily clear the 4.8 number you state of the 335i."

why? Because you say so? Because it would be awesome if it did? Again, what you're saying very well might be true, but you don't know that. Just because you WANT it to be true doesn't mean it WILL be. You might want to wait for some test results. I want to bash AmazinBimmer as much as the next guy, but try not to stick your foot in your mouth while you do it, it just makes you into the Audi version of him.

"the Audi S4 is also more fuel-efficient than BMW's 335i"

No, it isn't. Period. According to the figures Audi supplied in this press release, it gets 9.7L/100km. The 335i gets 9.1L/100km. That makes the 335i 6.6% more efficient than the S4. This is not an opinion, you can't argue it. Just accept it and move on.

"the Audi S4 is more expensive than BMW's 335i"

probably. I don't know what that has to do with anything, or even if that's a good thing. When BMW can sell the 335i/xi as a better "value" than an Audi, that probably helps BMW more than Audi.

"the Audi S4 is rarer than BMW's 335i"

that is true. Not sure why Audi wouldn't want to make its bread and butter versions of the A4 compete more directly with BMW's bread and butter versions so they'd increase sales volumes, but you're right, that does not appear to be the route they chose. Instead they've decided to make the limited availability S4 be the only competitor in their lineup to the "regular" 335, same as they did with the S5 and 335i Coupe. True, the S5 is sold out, but in very small numbers, just as I'd expect the S4 to be. Meanwhile the "value" 335i Coupe outsells it about 10-1, and I assume the same will happen with the 335i and S4. And I'm not sure why anyone who isn't just an enormous Audi fan would buy the A4 3.2 when it costs the same as the 335.

"and MOST IMPORTANTLY the Audi S4 will put the BMW 335i back in its place."

again, don't put the cart before the horse. It very well might, but blanket statements with zero factual basis in reality don't make you any more credible than AmazinBimmer. He's an idiot. Don't be one


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/26/2008 12:50:25 AM
-1 Boost
"why? Because you say so? Because it would be awesome if it did? Again, what you're saying very well might be true, but you don't know that."

It will be. JRob, you're smart, use your head. With the DSG it will probably be about as quick as a B7 RS4.


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 9/26/2008 9:31:50 AM
+3 Boost
S4, I'm not saying it won't be quicker. I said "I have no idea, and neither do you". And let's get real here -- that is absolutely, unequivocably, 100% true. I don't know. You don't know. I have said nothing derogatory about the car, yet you guys are acting like I insulted your mom and slept with your sister. All I am saying is "let's wait and see". You guys have been awfully quick to anoint the new S4 as the most amazing, incredible, wonderful thing ever. God almighty himself probably drives one, right? It's ridiculous. It's like you've all been suffering an extreme case of 335 envy, and now that Audi has something comparable out you have two years of pent up frustration to vent.

Listen, it might be every bit as good as you HOPE it is, and you WANT it to be, and I will applaud Audi if it is. Hell, I'll applaud if it's even close. But before we stand in a cicle masturbating to how awesome a car is that no one has driven, been in, seen, or tested, how about we wait just a little while so we can make statements that have a hair, just a HAIR, of factual evidenciary support. Can we do that? Please? Because if the answer is "no" then what you're saying is "I am 100% a fanboy whose opinions are no longer relevant because I can't take my blinders off". I don't want you to become GermanNut, AmazinBimmer, Teknik, or Staar. You are (or were) one of the good ones on here, I'm hoping you stay that way.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/26/2008 12:53:24 AM
-1 Boost
JRob, what are the figures for the 335xi? Audi says the S4 averages 23MPG and needs 9.7L to go 100km. Since the 335xi averages 20MPG according to BMWUSA, it should need well over 10L to go the same distance.


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 9/26/2008 9:18:44 AM
+3 Boost
your math is flawed. You can't just use the Euro figures and convert them. Audi isn't saying the S4 gets 24.25mpg in the U.S., they're saying it uses 9.7L/100km of fuel on the combined European cycle. Well, the 335i is rated at 9.1L/100km, which converts to 25.84mpg. So does that just "transfer over"? Is the 335i rated at 26mpg combined here? No, of course not, that's the highway rating here, combined it's rated at 20mpg. The 335i xDrive you asked about is rated at the same 9.7L/100km the new S4 is. Is it rated at the 24mpg that converts to? Again, of course not, here in the states it's 19-20mpg combined.

We shouldn't still need to go back and forth about this. The S4 is not going to average 24mpg, period. Which isn't a negative in any way, it still gets good mileage for what it is. You Audi guys just need to stop acting like it's going to walk on water and heal leprosy based on one non-U.S. press release.


DogLbDogLb - 9/26/2008 9:21:20 AM
+1 Boost
Has anyone noted a major strategy shift by audi here? I got tired of reading all this garbage.

Previous S4 competed with previous M3. Rs4 was Audi's M3 killer - it didn't last very long in production. BMW introduces 335i which then becomes more in line with S4 performance. New S4 is coming out and will be closely prices to previous S4 and several thousand MORE than a 335? POINT BEING, what the hell is Audi thinking in their pricing strategies?

I like Audi's design style, but can't understand this.

Whoever is comparing S5 numbers with the new S4 and assumes they'll have the same 0-60 times, S5 has a V8. Very unlikely the times will be the same (though I understand super chargers help bridge gap).




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