Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating at Nurburgring

30 September 2008
Paul Gover

Porsche has accused Nissan of cheating in the GT-R's record bid at the Nurburgring racetrack.

Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April.

It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.

"This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," says August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche, speaking to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabrio.

"For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."

He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki would only be possible with a semi-slick race-style tyre.

Achleitner says Porsche took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.

He says there was no tweaking of any kind and the GT2 and Turbo both ran on regular Porsche road tyres, the Michelin Sport Cup.

"We bought the car in the US. We drove a GT-R with new tyres," he says.

Achleitner was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.

But he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.

The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.

Achleitner says the back-to-back comparison was run because Porsche was concerned by Nissan's claims for the GT-R, which is heavier than the 911 with similar power.

"The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," he says.

"It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."

In the end, Porsche believes its testing has achieved the right lap times for the Skyline GT-R and benchmarked it against its own 911 heroes in the right context.

"For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says.
Read Article

HSCenterconsoleHSCenterconsole - 9/30/2008 9:56:52 AM
+17 Boost
I would like to see an independent car magazine run all of these cars (ZR1, GT-R, 911 Turbo) on the Ring in stock form to verify the claims.


dlindlin - 9/30/2008 10:31:09 AM
-3 Boost
Haven't you seen enough of these tests?

Nature of the Nurburgring would only make GT-R stand out more, since it corners better and exits faster than Porsche due to its smarter AWD, and front engein layout.

Now it's time to put a twin turbo and maybe AWD on Cayman, then we'll see.


993Turbo993Turbo - 9/30/2008 10:45:45 AM
+2 Boost
OUCH!


dlindlin - 9/30/2008 11:03:33 AM
-11 Boost
"The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers".

How many years have we all seen NISSAN testing GT-R there and how many hours have this Kraut been w/ GT-R? And 7:38 is by Walter right?

So who's cheating now? :)


SenSpeedSenSpeed - 9/30/2008 3:00:09 PM
+3 Boost
get your head out of the sand....watch Top Gear


dlindlin - 9/30/2008 8:52:10 PM
+1 Boost
That's why I said maybe, and AUDI already done that.

I'm totally for MR.


crackityjonescrackityjones - 10/2/2008 12:52:27 PM
+2 Boost
I trust Porsche on this.


steve27tsteve27t - 9/30/2008 12:29:39 PM
+3 Boost
Ah yes, but both Acura and Nissan designed the original tests. So maybe both these were biased in favour of their vehicles?


_43LE_43LE - 9/30/2008 1:42:59 PM
0 Boost
StarSearch, welcome to the reality of Autospies and many of its members.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/1/2008 12:23:20 AM
+2 Boost
I was thinking the same thing--how is this any more true when Porsche does it? Seems conspicuous.

Like the first poster said, I'd love to see this done by a (very skilled) magazine.


MeanVulcanMeanVulcan - 10/1/2008 12:23:23 PM
0 Boost
it is clear, though not evident, that other OEMs will test the competition's cars to verify their claims. In this case, Porsche found major discrepancies with the times reported by Nissan. Porsche's reputation is at stake if they biased their GT-R times, other OEMs I'm sure have also verified these times. If we do not hear otherwise from anyone, I totally believe that Porsche has made a fair claim.

As far as Acura ... (what is that?)... I don't buy Japanese action figures, thanks.


PorschinatorPorschinator - 10/2/2008 1:49:03 PM
+1 Boost
Interesting to see if any can claim ZR-1 #s which will be the new King of the Ring.


sectorsector - 9/30/2008 10:11:27 AM
+3 Boost
hahaha, I thought German car fans were whiners, I see they take after their master and overlords :)

Every magazine/journalists and the tests they've done since GT-R was available resulted in a win for GT-R. end of story.

I guess Porsche sales are down :(


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 10/1/2008 12:24:26 AM
+3 Boost
They are, quite a bit in fact. It's a fine time to get a deal on a Porsche sports car. :)

Ironically, Nissan can boast that it's one of the few brands that has seen sales increases this year.


guambombboyguambombboy - 9/30/2008 10:21:18 AM
+8 Boost
So I guess they can explain why the GTR was faster than the Porsches on tracks from other places as well. Including the Top Gear track.


dlindlin - 9/30/2008 10:25:11 AM
+6 Boost
EXACTLY.

IN EVERY TEST, OTHER THAN 1/4 MILE, PORSCHE LOSES.


StarStar - 9/30/2008 10:49:50 AM
-15 Boost
Ha, ha, ha...I said it so many times that the car mags and TV shows have their own agenda...and that's to get more idiots(the hungry masses)to read and watch their c**p.

Tell the dumb masses that Nissan(or other econo brand) built a car that can supposedly beat a Porsche and you got the brainwashed idiots cheering like they are out of their mind imagining that overnight, a POS brand like Nissan can now build supercars. Dumb sheep...

All the Japanese car brands do, is cheat and copy. Their cheaply built, under-engineered, mediocre products are only desired by people who either don't care what they drive or just don't have any idea what a good car is.

The GT-R is nothing but a heavily overrated econo racer. Even its performance figures are obviously inflated so it can make this tin can look like is worth something. This is no Porsche competitor, this is only a failed attempt by Nissan to mime good engineering.


S30GTRS30GTR - 9/30/2008 11:00:05 AM
+9 Boost
HEY STAR, YOU SEEM LIKE YOU'RE SO SURE OF WHAT YOU SAY YET YOU'VE BEEN PROVEN WRONG OVER AND OVER AGAIN. DO YOU HAVE POOF THAT THIS EVENT REALLY DID HAPPEN. WE NEED IT.


qweasdzxcqweasdzxc - 9/30/2008 11:10:21 AM
+7 Boost
STAR lies and everyone here knows it. Just another EL34 type of JOKE.


StarStar - 9/30/2008 11:15:54 AM
-10 Boost
S30GTR,

Why are you LYING? Nobody EVER..EVER proved me wrong here. Not ONE time. It is understandable though since I was NEVER wrong. Better luck next time bud...to Nissan too. LOL..


Htay7500Htay7500 - 9/30/2008 11:47:25 AM
+5 Boost
"All the Japanese car brands do, is cheat and copy. Their cheaply built, under-engineered, mediocre products are only desired by people who either don't care what they drive or just don't have any idea what a good car is."

You're certainly the reason why German cars and car fans look bad. Snobby, narcissistic, and ignorant. Good job. Keep that ignorance up.


steve27tsteve27t - 9/30/2008 12:33:04 PM
+4 Boost
since I was NEVER wrong.

Hey, Star, I have a good job for you, you obviously have ALL the credentials...... PRESIDENT!!!


pcar4evrpcar4evr - 9/30/2008 1:07:41 PM
0 Boost
Guess Porsche got one of those 12.5 sec 1/4 mile GTR's that we've seen in the mags. Maybe ya gotta check the "cheat" option on the order form to get the 'ring killer.

Nobody except fanboys could possible accept the original Nissan 'ring claim. It was so illogical that only idiots could believe it. Now both BMW and Porsche have published that the Nissan claim is a lie.
A stock 3900lb 480 hp hogzilla, doesn't lap the 'ring in the times claimed by Nissan


dlindlin - 9/30/2008 4:49:44 PM
+2 Boost
What GT-R loses in horsepower and weight, it makes up in corners.

And there are plenty of difficult corners at Nurb, right?


GennissenGennissen - 10/1/2008 4:51:58 AM
+4 Boost
STAR, u are becoming the german car fan equivalent of MichaelTaylor. I'm sure we all remember the obnoxious MT. Anyways, I'm a fan of german cars but star, you're killing me man. face the facts and applaud nissan for their efforts.


MeanVulcanMeanVulcan - 10/1/2008 6:11:05 PM
+1 Boost
umm, the variable is not the track, its the non-production setup.


MeanVulcanMeanVulcan - 10/1/2008 6:11:16 PM
+1 Boost
umm, the variable is not the track, its the non-production setup of the Nissan.


bigmotovbigmotov - 9/30/2008 10:29:24 AM
+5 Boost
This is definitely not the way to boost your image after you get a knocked out in a fight....especially when sales ARE down. It looks deparate, it's not concrete evidence and still leaves too much to speculation. In the end, it's just free advertising for the GTR and publicizes just how good the GTR really is.


stonestone - 9/30/2008 10:40:14 AM
+17 Boost
Wow,

I am a little disappointed, I really expected Porsche to come back and beat the GTR lap time, not make excuses. The GTR has beaten the 911 more than once, on more than one track so this argument holds no weight. Perhaps, their driver is not as good driving the GTR as the Nissan driver, there are so many variables. Porsche you have the money and the resources so just beat the GTR, if you can. I mean you car does cost 50K more........

Stone


w209w114w209w114 - 9/30/2008 10:43:39 AM
+12 Boost
SOLUTION: The Nurburging should have its own independednt testing committee to test the official times of each car.

Anyone can make up numbers, and unfortunately automakers aren't as honest as we would like to think they are.


_43LE_43LE - 9/30/2008 11:04:36 AM
+7 Boost
Completely agree. Anyhow, these pull-out-your-ruler comparisons are getting a little tiresome.

That being said, the vast majority of comparisons that I've read claim that the GT-R is faster than the turbo. One would think that a clear trend has started to emerge. Posting something like the article is a little like grasping at straws.


S30GTRS30GTR - 9/30/2008 10:50:57 AM
+3 Boost
DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHERE TO GET THIS COMPARO VIDEO WHERE PORSCHE CLAIMS THE GT-R IS SLOWER. THEY MUST HAVE SOME EVIDENCE I WOULD SUPPOSE.


GTR35GTR35 - 9/30/2008 11:18:13 AM
+3 Boost
Of course there is no proof and if there was it is obvious that Porsche didn't run the GTR to its full potential. Not only will they need to disprove the Ring's time but the time of every racetrack allover the globe, where the 911 has lost repetitively. I find this claim to be very Hysterical, I'VE LOST ALL RESPECT FOR PORSCHE.
I can't believe they actually went trough the trouble to lie in order to make their 911 look better than the GTR. What they need to do is improve their engineering and create something faster than the Nissan and continue with this fun game, or else it just seems that they are giving up.

Porsche, Stop your whining and get back to work.






holmstarholmstar - 9/30/2008 11:02:56 AM
+6 Boost
think about it... This is a Porsche engineer... He/she drives Porsche cars all day long, but rarely if ever gets experience in a GTR. I'm not surprised at all that this engineer is not nearly as fast in the GTR... He/she isn't used to it, so they didint push it as hard as they pushed the porsche models. Let's just get the best porsche driver and best GTR driver to show up on the same day and end the debate.




Agent63Agent63 - 9/30/2008 11:06:16 AM
0 Boost
I don't care what this article said. Even if it wasn't posted, an associate of mine dyno'd his GT-R in Phoenix, AZ. It came out at 510bp. An independent dynanometer some time ago also did a test where the GT-R produced 416 hp. So does this mean the cars not consistent with their numbers claimed? that's nearly 100hp difference. Even if they were wrong could it be that much off!?

GT-R is awesome and I appreciate it but I sure hope the Nissan boys aren't being shady. Porsche doesn't have a reason to lie, they are a huge company that has ownerships beyond automobiles, believe me :)


sectorsector - 9/30/2008 11:14:30 AM
+1 Boost
"Porsche doesn't have a reason to lie"

They have every reason to lie, their flagship got dusted by a competitor costing half as much. If it wasn't for the badge whores, they would be on a sinking ship.


StarStar - 9/30/2008 11:27:39 AM
-12 Boost
Claiming that a Nissan is a Porsche competitor is like saying that a Toyota Avalon is a Bentley competitor. The badge on a Porsche is worth something because it comes with the assurance that you get one of the most fantastic cars ever built.

The badge on the Nissan on the other hand assures you that what you get is an under-engineered, cheaply built POS that will not last long and of course will never match the overrated performance specs and claims.


sectorsector - 9/30/2008 11:57:11 AM
+9 Boost
Keep dreaming Star you sound like a broken record.

GT-R is much more exclusive car than 997. Its major components like gearbox, engine, drive train are hand assembled by one of 20 or so highly trained engineers in a clean room on a specialized jig like how prototype racers are built. It has a special transaxle layout that places dual-clutch transmission that shifts faster than a GT2 race car in the rear of the car to offer better balance, has nitrogen filled tires etc... It is essentially a piece of art under the aluminum hood. Learn to respect the car for what it is not what badge it wears.

Oh and GT-R not only beats on the 997 on the track it also beats on the most expensive car Porsche has:

Top Gear track times by the stig:

1:19.7 – Nissan GT-R
1:19.8 – Porsche Carrera GT
1:22.3 – Porsche 911 GT3 RS

Who's laughing now? Haha


abcdabcd - 9/30/2008 12:21:05 PM
+4 Boost
"an associate of mine dyno'd his GT-R in Phoenix, AZ. It came out at 510bp. An independent dynanometer some time ago also did a test where the GT-R produced 416 hp. So does this mean the cars not consistent with their numbers claimed? that's nearly 100hp difference. Even if they were wrong could it be that much off!?"


I think you can`t distinguish WHEEL horsepower from ENGINE horsepower .


StarStar - 9/30/2008 12:34:37 PM
-9 Boost
auto001,

let me educate you a little. The badge is what tells you about the quality of a product and there is no way around it. If Nissan would build better cars than Porsche, then the Nissan badge would be more valuable than the one from the Porsche. Is called logic.

I see SONY on a television and I trust it for quality because I know that SONY put that emblem as a pledge for quality. I see the Porsche emblem on their car and I know is Porsche pledge for quality.

But when I see cars with Hyundai or Nissan badges I know quality and engineering took a big step back since these are brands that cater to the masses who cannot afford the REAL thing. There is no such thing as bad cars with desirable badges or good cars with s**ty badges. Every single quality product in the world has a badge that represents their pledge for quality in front of customers. The absolutely stupidest thing in the world is to claim that products that have bad name are in fact better quality than the brands that stand for the highest quality.

Get over the ghetto attitude towards products that stand for excellence. Just because YOU can't afford it doesn't mean is not worth the money. Give me a car that drives like a Porsche and I will take it no matter who made it. The problem is that ONLY Porsche can make a car that drives that good and that's the reason their badge and their car are worth their weight in gold.


pcar4evrpcar4evr - 9/30/2008 1:52:23 PM
+2 Boost
hey auto001 fanboy. Even that blowhard Clarkson commented that he didn't believe that the car they tested had the quoted hp. Clearly, Stig drove another GTR ringer.


SenSpeedSenSpeed - 9/30/2008 3:05:07 PM
-2 Boost
everyone's reputation starts from somewhere...for Nissan international reputation of quality and performance starts now.


StarStar - 9/30/2008 3:14:26 PM
-6 Boost
It appears that their reputation as LIARS will start to grow...before anything else. LOL...


LexuriousLexurious - 9/30/2008 8:52:40 PM
+1 Boost
lol its not even badgewhoring. it's passion and appreciation of technologies. porsche is a small company but they have a lot of money and they own themselves. nissan is owned by renault or somethin? nissan cars are poor quality and wish they were as good as honda and toyota.

porsche owns the vw group.

yall always bring up the half the price thing vs porsche.. so that means people who buy nissans are poor and cant afford the true exotic. the gtr will be sitting in lots across the nation alongside other nissan sentras and quests. the porsches will sit alongside other exotics like ferraris, lambo, aston, and the likes. you guys are so funny. playstation geeks really love to defend a car theyll never drive.


MeanVulcanMeanVulcan - 10/1/2008 6:27:31 PM
+1 Boost
it seems that some people here find foreign the fact that respected companies will do anything to MAINTAIN their reputation and thus would never resort to unethical or questionable practices. Just because some people here have shady ethics does not mean a well respected company like Porsche will resort to the same thing.

I'd like a valid explanation of why GT-Rs are coming out with so much variance in hp dyno measurements. So many are so quick to trash Porsche but lack facts to prove a consistent hp for the GT-R.

It's sad that Nissan has to resort to shady practices. I had for the longest time respected the GT-R but now I question their practices. Some will do ANYTHING to beat a Porsche.


PorschinatorPorschinator - 10/2/2008 4:28:38 PM
+1 Boost
For Auto1 - Where did Stig get the GT-R? Nissan? If so it was a 'fixed' version.


answeranswer - 9/30/2008 11:28:23 AM
+6 Boost
Porsche has a long and respected past.

I'm hoping whining and false accusations aren't going to be part of its future.




StarStar - 9/30/2008 11:34:03 AM
-11 Boost
The only problem is...the accusations are NOT false and acting like a Nissan fanboi cannot change that REALITY. We ALL know that Nissan CHEATED!


_43LE_43LE - 9/30/2008 5:19:53 PM
0 Boost
Desperado, why dont you come to your senses?
You been out ridin fences for so long now
Oh, youre a hard one
I know that you got your reasons
These things that are pleasin you
Can hurt you somehow


PorschinatorPorschinator - 10/2/2008 4:19:01 PM
+1 Boost
Wouldn't go that far....


montyz81montyz81 - 9/30/2008 11:48:10 AM
+4 Boost
Isn't the American spec GT-R slower then the JDM spec GT-R? The record that Nissan achieved was in a JDM spec GT-R. This one is a US spec GT-R. Try the test again I say. Also, invite Nissan to come and test it with Porsche. Have the Porsche folks review the GT-R while the Nissan folks review the Porsche. They race and then see who wins. Then have an independent company do the same to both. The results will then speak for themselves.


Designer1Designer1 - 9/30/2008 11:53:53 AM
+1 Boost
It seems actually that Porsche determined that they PROVED that they LOST and now are trying to covert it up.

Almost all magazine have tested the GT-R and found it to be a faster car than the Porsche, so its too later for Porsche to come out now after months and say this crap.

The GT-R was faster in the old days, it is now, and it will always be, period.


abcdabcd - 9/30/2008 12:13:55 PM
+1 Boost
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup are competition-oriented tyres , they`re standard on such a cars like the VIPER ACR .
Porsche 911 Turbo comes in standard with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 , much less competition oriented , not Sport Cup which they say they used .


abcdabcd - 9/30/2008 12:35:45 PM
-1 Boost
And Porsche 911 turbo is about 330 pounds more than GT-R , which is about 150 kiligrams , not 20 kilograms like they say .


abcdabcd - 9/30/2008 12:50:14 PM
+4 Boost
My mistake , I wanted to write that 911 Turbo is about 330 pounds LESS of course than GT-R .


abcdabcd - 9/30/2008 12:52:02 PM
+3 Boost
Which is 150 kilos not 20 like they say .


abcdabcd - 9/30/2008 1:37:39 PM
+1 Boost
Yes , TurboSpyder , but have they said intentionally that 20 kilos or is it only a mistake . And that Michelin Sport Cup tyres are practically racing tyres allowed for road , while GT-R`s Dunlop SP Sport all-season tyres are less stick , not to mention GT-R`s optional Bridstone Potenza which are less stick on dry than Dunlop SP Sport , maybe they even used Bridstones , they don`t tell that .


abcdabcd - 9/30/2008 1:46:00 PM
+1 Boost
Even Nissan said that they were doing almost ten seconds slower nurburgring lap times using Bridgestones than on Dunlops 7:29 lap time .


abcdabcd - 9/30/2008 1:47:14 PM
+1 Boost
On dry , on wet Bridgestones are better .


E36erE36er - 9/30/2008 12:14:38 PM
+6 Boost
Oh have the mighty fallen. This is so beneath Porsche to accuse such a thing when just about every comparison shows exactly the opposite. I really , really, thought Porsche had more dignity than this. Now they’re sounding like a poor looser. This is so un-German it’s shocking. You don’t hear the Japanese going around whining about other manufacturers cheating when they loose. Instead of whining about it, Porsche should build a faster car and shut Nissan down. That would be the gentlemanly thing to do. That would be the Porsche thing to do.


222max222max - 9/30/2008 12:36:44 PM
+2 Boost
Exactly.


1dott81dott8 - 9/30/2008 1:10:26 PM
+2 Boost
the word is loser not "looser".


StarStar - 9/30/2008 1:19:13 PM
-7 Boost
"You don’t hear the Japanese going around whining about other manufacturers cheating when they loose"

That's because NOBODY except the Japanese is CHEATING. The GT-R is grossly overrated and we can see that the truth is coming to light. SHAME ON YOU, NISSAN!!!


E36erE36er - 9/30/2008 5:07:56 PM
+2 Boost
thanks 1dott8, yes it should be loser.


222max222max - 9/30/2008 12:35:03 PM
0 Boost
And what does that have to do with this?


1uberaudi1uberaudi - 9/30/2008 12:40:35 PM
-7 Boost
Star is correct. My feelings??? Read all of Stars comments. Nissan GT-R/Porsche GT2--Hyundai Genesis/BMW 7 series. Anymore rediculous comparisons?!?!!?


StarStar - 9/30/2008 12:35:04 PM
-8 Boost
auto001,

let me educate you a little. The badge is what tells you about the quality of a product and there is no way around it. If Nissan would build better cars than Porsche, then the Nissan badge would be more valuable than the one from the Porsche. Is called logic.

I see SONY on a television and I trust it for quality because I know that SONY put that emblem as a pledge for quality. I see the Porsche emblem on their car and I know is Porsche pledge for quality.

But when I see cars with Hyundai or Nissan badges I know quality and engineering took a big step back since these are brands that cater to the masses who cannot afford the REAL thing. There is no such thing as bad cars with desirable badges or good cars with s**ty badges. Every single quality product in the world has a badge that represents their pledge for quality in front of customers. The absolutely stupidest thing in the world is to claim that products that have bad name are in fact better quality than the brands that stand for the highest quality.

Get over the ghetto attitude towards products that stand for excellence. Just because YOU can't afford it doesn't mean is not worth the money. Give me a car that drives like a Porsche and I will take it no matter who made it. The problem is that ONLY Porsche can make a car that drives that good and that's the reason their badge and their car are worth their weight in gold.


sectorsector - 9/30/2008 1:18:32 PM
+6 Boost
Nice try, you just wasted your time regurgitating the dictionary definition of what brand and imaging is all about. Let me school you a little.

Branding is a tool used by product of markers to distinguish their product. What a badge whore like you fail to realize is that there are two components to branding, the experimental and psychological. Experimental because you can quantify i.e., performance numbers, track times etc. and psychological because of the "perception" or "experience" that is created by a individual themselves. Yes the two halves can align themselves for a particular brand i.e., talk the talk and walk the walk sort of speak, but this isn't always the case because since a lowly Nissan(as perceived by you and other fanboys to be inferior) can come out with a superior product like the GT-R that can crush an offering by the "well established" and almighty Porsche, as witnessed by test after test by independent sources. So by your logic (since you always equate brand=excellence and excellence=brand) a product like GT-R couldn't be possible as you say all Nissan's are POS, at half the price might I add. And that's from a performance perspective, and don't even talk about Porsche is superior on tech or luxury front as they don't even offer push-button start, Bluetooth, iPod integration, keyless entry etc and luxury is just a couple of more dead cows separating separating Porsche and GT-R. So the moral of the story is company's like Porsche and BMW can bank on imagine conscious shallows like yourselves to move inventory and line their pockets, since "they have you in the bag"


1dott81dott8 - 9/30/2008 1:22:23 PM
-6 Boost
i never thought that i would say this on this site but that was the most educated post i've read on here thus far. fight the fight star.


stonestone - 9/30/2008 1:44:55 PM
+4 Boost
You almost made an intelligent post concerning the quality that goes into SOME premium luxury brands definitely not all of them, then you go and ruin it with arrogance, elitism, and some really poor assumptions.

So let me "educate" you, Porsche does not advertise its extremely high quality nor should it, actually if you go sit in any 911 pre-2005 you would find a pretty spartan interior that I would consider subpar for the price. What they do advertise is acceleration, and handling prowess. A so called "lesser" car has defeated them on all counts, so your lesson on better quality was not even worth the time it took you to post it. Porsche lost this round, they might win the next but they lost this one. You and Porsche are just going to have to deal with it maybe you can lend them a few million so they can improve the 911 LMAO.

Stone


StarStar - 9/30/2008 1:55:12 PM
-6 Boost
"So by your logic (since you always equate brand=excellence and excellence=brand) a product like GT-R couldn't be possible as you say all Nissan's are POS, at half the price might I add. And that's from a performance perspective, and don't even talk about Porsche is superior on tech or luxury front as they don't even offer push-button start, Bluetooth, iPod integration, keyless entry "

What?!?

You do realise that you don't make absolutely any sense. You didn't offer any explanation that can contradict what I said in my previous post. In fact you didn't succed in writing a sentence that made some sense.

The main diference between us is that I actually drove the GT-R and I can tell you that it doesn't look and feel any different than a souped up 350Z.
It doesn't sound like a supercar, it doesn't look like a supercar and it is ultimately downright boring to drive.

and like that's not enough now we can also see that the performance is not even close to what is claimed(by Nissan and some tools)to be.

You can blubber all day about perception and imagine that the difference between a Porsche and a Nissan is just the quality of leather but every enthusiast knows that the level of engineering and the driving experience in a Porsche are WAY BEYOND anything a Nissan will be able to offer even 50 years from now. Face it..you just don't get it...You never drove a Porsche in your entire life and base everything you say on opinions you heard.
Ultimately, even if the performance numbers would be true(they are obviously NOT) the Nissan is still nothing more than a tin can that goes fast. It will never be a Porsche competitor.



Htay7500Htay7500 - 9/30/2008 2:21:31 PM
+2 Boost
Star: You like to complain a lot don't you? Grow up. Porsche is dragging itself down with those very arrogant comments of yours and the fact that Porsche is still whining about losing to the GTR. Porsche should just move on and make the 911 better if they want to beat the GTR. All I hear from your comments are all about that blatant whining and bashing which you think solves everything but instead, it just adds more fuel to the topic. I don't need to hear your "porsche is superior" rant. They are good at making sports cars. You just make them look bad.


StarStar - 9/30/2008 2:22:14 PM
-7 Boost
, Porsche does not advertise its extremely high quality nor should it, actually if you go sit in any 911 pre-2005 you would find a pretty spartan interior"



Porsche was never about fancy interiors but their built quality was always top notch so yes, they always represented quality.

Porsche is all about superior engineering. They created automobiles that connect instantly with the driver at an almost organic level. Their engineering is way beyond the Nissan "tuner" philosophy that concentrates only on numbers(exaggerating and lying about them also..LOL).

The ultimate engineering is when you create a connection between the man and the machine, a connection that goes way beyond the G's you pull on a track. Numbers alone = zero, in a street car. Nissan needs a lot more than just numbers(especially fake ones) to claim superiority in engineering. This is what a lot of newbies like yourself have problems in understanding.



StarStar - 9/30/2008 2:25:08 PM
-4 Boost
Htay7500, "Porsche is still whining about losing to the GTR"

You still don't get it, do you? Porsche NEVER lost to the GT-R. Is Nissan that lied about that, when it claimed to beat the Porsche


sectorsector - 9/30/2008 2:41:59 PM
+5 Boost
Star, just because you go to sleep in a matching Porsche car bed and mattress, BMW pajamas and Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG special edition nightlite, doesn't mean you're an expert.


Htay7500Htay7500 - 9/30/2008 2:45:20 PM
+3 Boost
"You still don't get it, do you? Porsche NEVER lost to the GT-R. Is Nissan that lied about that, when it claimed to beat the Porsche"

Here goes another round of whining and denial...and work on your puncuation/grammar skills.


StarStar - 9/30/2008 2:53:21 PM
-5 Boost
puncuation skills???

LMAO...


Htay7500Htay7500 - 9/30/2008 2:54:17 PM
+6 Boost
"You still don't get it, do you? Porsche NEVER lost to the GT-R. Is Nissan that lied about that, when it claimed to beat the Porsche"

Why is porsche still whining about what tires nissan used, etc? Why can't porsche just accept it and move on to make some tweaks to make the 911 turbo better? That sounds like whining. Jeez, you still can't get it.


Htay7500Htay7500 - 9/30/2008 3:00:37 PM
+7 Boost
"puncuation skills???

LMAO..."

Yes, haha. Its pretty obvious that you can't understand what that means. How sad...




stash84stash84 - 9/30/2008 11:02:42 PM
+4 Boost
Star-

"You do realise that you don't make absolutely any sense."

lmao !!!!!




MeanVulcanMeanVulcan - 10/1/2008 6:55:49 PM
+1 Boost
Htay7500,
You were soooo close of making a good point, but then you blew it!


PerformanceGuyPerformanceGuy - 9/30/2008 1:15:26 PM
+4 Boost
Kind of sad that instead of admitting that they got beat by the GT-R that they would rather make excuses. GT-R won, end of story, they should really just get over it, it is not the end of the world. If they can't hang with the GT-R, then they won't have a chance against the V-Spec GT-R.


MeanVulcanMeanVulcan - 10/1/2008 7:00:29 PM
+1 Boost
it seems nowadays people are so willing to just take whatever information comes from the media and blindly accept it as the truth. You are all BRAINWASHED and all you do is flow with the crowds, in other words you have no mind of your own to draw your own conclusions. WHY WOULD PORSCHE EVER HAVE TO ACCEPT SUCH LIES IF THEY ARE NOT TRUE (at least to their belief - and mine until Nissan proves me wrong). PORSCHE DOES STAND FOR SOMETHING AND IS WILLING TO FIGHT FOR IT, which is more than most crowd pleasers here.


_43LE_43LE - 9/30/2008 1:47:12 PM
+4 Boost
It's funny how TurboSpyder posted this to try to make Nissan look bad and Porsche look good and all it ended up doing was making him look even sillier and more desperate.


_43LE_43LE - 9/30/2008 5:10:41 PM
-2 Boost
I'm not the one trying to bash Nissan to make something else look better. I love Porsche I have nothing to be desperate about. I think that most agree that you are sounding desperate. But that's okay. We're used to it.


mini22mini22 - 9/30/2008 1:45:10 PM
+2 Boost
Well Porsche threw down the gauntlet by saying Nissan cheated. Nissan needs to respond to this allegation. The intent of this statement was to damage Nissan's credibility and marketablity. If Nissan insists that it used a regular production car on regular tires then it needs to say to Porsche lets set the record straight and redo the tests. However it should be with the same driver for both cars.The fly in the ointment here is that in other tests on other tracks the GTR has beaten Porsche consistently. Was Nissan then equiping all it's GTR's with race tires to compete against these other makes. I find that doubtful. First of all I would guess that race tires look significantly different being a slick and any journalist would be able to tell this. So one of these 2 companies might be not being totally honest here.


222max222max - 9/30/2008 2:18:59 PM
+3 Boost
The burden shouldn't be on Nissan to prove (to Porsche, not the world) that it didn't cheat. The burden should be on Porsche to prove that Nissan did cheat.


xlr8xlr8 - 9/30/2008 2:42:43 PM
-3 Boost
well nissan has been known to underate the hp figures for their skylines...but who cares cus the Viper Acr beats both of these cars all hail the true king of the ring !!!!


sectorsector - 9/30/2008 3:38:51 PM
-1 Boost
Getting side tracked a little bit? were comparing consumer products here not race cars. I guess Porsche needs to enter these races to justify the extravagant markups they charge :)


abcdabcd - 9/30/2008 3:43:57 PM
+1 Boost
TurboSpyder , Nissan don`t has such a racing heritage like Porsche . But the same could be said about the BMW . BMW hadn`t had victories in major international races ( except one at 1999 le mans ) until 3 years ago , then they bought Sauber F1 team with engineers and refinance that team and still are working for success . So without this racing experience until 3 years ago in major international races they were able to produce their "Ultimate Driving Machines" for so many years , exactly like Nissan with their GT-R now and other sports car in past . So basing only on racing heritage in major international races Nissan is on the same horse as BMW .


_43LE_43LE - 9/30/2008 5:12:57 PM
-1 Boost
This is TuboSpyder's desperation at its worst. I am actually laughing now, too funny!


abcdabcd - 10/1/2008 1:27:18 PM
+1 Boost
TurboSpyder , don`t be so nervous , I have great respect for Porsche for their racing successes , as you can see , I don`t bash Porsche , Porsche is undoubtely great manufacturer becouse of their racing heritage . Here is where Porsche shines compared to Nissan .
But there isn`t any reason for saying that the GT-R ( or everything Japanese like you ) is bad becouse Nissan doesn`t has such a racing heritage when BMW also doesn`t has and nobody here has been complaining ( inclusive you , TurboSpyder ) about their "Ultimate Driving Maschines" for that reason .
So , we should treat everyone equally .

"abcd, go ahead and post a picture of a Polish or Czech race car. Lol."

You first with East Germany race car . Lol .



abcdabcd - 10/1/2008 4:50:46 PM
+1 Boost
Czech car industry was rather specializing in a luxury and technologically sophisticated cars than racing , like this Tatras for example :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_(company)


topneurotopneuro - 9/30/2008 5:06:37 PM
+2 Boost
Auto001 you have to tone down the language for Star, he operates at a brainstem level and elementary school grammar.


StarStar - 9/30/2008 6:29:17 PM
-5 Boost
If he(or you) would tone down the language even more you would probably enter a coma. You have the intellectual capacity of a fish.


CorsisCorsis - 9/30/2008 5:06:42 PM
0 Boost
I wouldnt be surprised if Nissan was playing some games with the time trial. Its a fast car no doubt, but they are either understating the power the car is making, or that car wasnt stock.




topneurotopneuro - 9/30/2008 5:50:11 PM
+2 Boost
Nissan used the Porsche 911 Turbo as the benchmark for the GT-R is no secret; simply look at the hundreds of old spy shots of the masked Nissan GT-R, and you'll see a Porsche 911 Turbo close by. Mizuno's aim was to surpass the German car in every category, while keeping the price at just over half of the 911 Turbo's MSRP. The only rationale to release the car to production would be to beat Porsche price and performance not to shadow it.

Nissan succeeded in both and have the right to brag as much they want; Porsche engineers should take this setback without whining. An isolated Porsche performance over Nissan in one track cannot invalidate other multiple outcomes of the same cars in other tracks including Nurburgring racetrack where Nissan beat Porsche.



StarStar - 9/30/2008 6:22:58 PM
-6 Boost

"Mizuno's aim was to surpass the German car in every category"


LOL... at his attempt. Mizuno failed so bad in his attempt that I cannot think of anything other than "harakiri" that can restore his honor. May his god forgive him for even attempting the sacrilege to build an imitation of the famous Porsche 911 Turbo.
I cannot think of anything more delusional than to believe that Nissan could compete with Porsche. LOL...fools...



StarStar - 10/1/2008 9:48:53 PM
-1 Boost
Maybe in your Nissan fanboi world. In the real world Nissan is still an econobox maker while Porsche is the dream car for every single car enthusiast on the planet.


F1_DriverF1_Driver - 9/30/2008 6:07:19 PM
+1 Boost
TurboSpyder = one SourKraut (pun intended!)


olscuulolscuul - 9/30/2008 6:15:49 PM
+2 Boost
let sabina drive them all. she can get a ford transit van around the ring in 10 minutes.


topneurotopneuro - 9/30/2008 6:47:12 PM
+2 Boost
Go on Star take your medicine, otherwise with the straight jacket you cannot type.


topneurotopneuro - 9/30/2008 6:47:31 PM
+4 Boost
Go on Star take your medicine, otherwise with the straight jacket you cannot type.


StarStar - 9/30/2008 7:41:41 PM
-6 Boost
You sound like you already took yours and boy it makes you delusional...


Type707Type707 - 9/30/2008 7:24:40 PM
+2 Boost
Buncha cry babies!...Porsche is just complaining because Nissan damaged their pride in performance. Get over ir already.


StarStar - 9/30/2008 7:37:52 PM
-7 Boost
All Nissan did is damage their OWN image by making false claims about the performance of the GT-R. Kudos to Porsche for not letting Nissan get away with cheating.


changomochangomo - 9/30/2008 7:46:18 PM
+4 Boost
CASE CLOSED

Road and Track ran the GTR Against Porsche GT2 ON FOUR DIFFERENT TRACKS.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=6939

GTR came ahead of the GT2 - quite an accomplishment considering the Porsche costs substantially more....


changomochangomo - 9/30/2008 11:13:06 PM
+4 Boost
Yes, it's a conspiracy TurboSpider - Nissan is giving up-tuned GTRs to the press....

But say you're right...it is 'uptuned' It still means you can tweak the 72K car slightly to beat a 191K car.

I'll take Two GTRs please, one in red and one in black...


topneurotopneuro - 9/30/2008 8:02:19 PM
+2 Boost
Ease up Star all that dripping foam from your mouth is going to mess up the keyboard.


Need4SpeedNeed4Speed - 9/30/2008 8:43:56 PM
-1 Boost
I never trusted Nissan from the beginning. The car that Top Gear used was never confirmed to be a production ready car...for all I know it was an over powered mule like the one that ran the ring.


TauronB2GTauronB2G - 9/30/2008 8:46:26 PM
0 Boost
Wow there are some real girlie men on here. I am a Porsche fan but I also recognize that Nissan has built a hell of a car here. I am inclined to believe Porsche on this one. I have seen at least two comparos in which the 911 turbo was a little faster than the GTR. I've seen test in which GTR's were making a shit load more horsepower than was claimed. I can also believe that Nissan may be using ringer cars as well as track tires for these test to show an advantage.
T


topneurotopneuro - 9/30/2008 9:02:24 PM
+2 Boost
Since all this post revolves around conspiracy theories how about this conspiracy theory; Porsche buys a GT-R to reverse engineer some of the tech Nissan put in the GT-R, or just to see if Nissan was lying? Either way, there really was not a need to go public with this finding unless they wanted negative publicity towards Nissan. In other words "losing" was not an option. If Porsche don't believe Nissan's claims, why should we believe Porsche's? People could also say that Porsche intentionally detune the GT-R's that they bought so that the GT-Rs was actually slower. Or, they could intentionally tune up the 911s they tested so they are much faster than the production one, basically they could claim anything. I chose to trust the many, many car reviews and comparisons out there done by various groups in which GT-R beats Porsche outnumbers Porsche beats GT-R. This smacks of desperation on Porsche's part. Instead of trying to discredit Nissan's Nurburgring time by saying they couldn't duplicate it why not document a faster run in a Porsche? If Nissan is hiding something it may be the fact that this GT-R actually produces much higher horsepower than the claimed 480hp. Porsche would not want to admit that the GT-R produces more HP than a 911 Turbo anyway as it would just help the sales of GT-R's.


olscuulolscuul - 9/30/2008 10:19:16 PM
+1 Boost
i don't see porsche 'up tuning' their car. it would be too easy to figure out, considering the many long time enthusiasts.
considering the aversion of racing series to let any car dominate, a weight penalty would scale back any early advantage. not an incentive for nissan to race their car. paul newman would have said 'to hell with it lets race'. go chiefs!


TTranTTran - 9/30/2008 9:27:58 PM
+4 Boost
long story short..jealous lol


Matthew1Matthew1 - 9/30/2008 10:41:06 PM
-1 Boost
Did Porsche ACTUALLY accuse Nissan of cheating?

They made a claim that the record-breaking GT-R time was done on race tyres, that's all.

big deal. Regardless of the neitrality of Porsche's findings, this was a off-the-cuff statement from an engineer at an Australian auto show, not a press release.

So all those who are whining that Porsche is jealous and that you've lost all respect for them need to look at this in context.

The title of this thread is putting spin on what really happened.


changomochangomo - 9/30/2008 11:14:26 PM
+3 Boost
Road and Track ran the GTR Against Porsche GT2 ON FOUR DIFFERENT TRACKS.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=6939

GTR came ahead of the GT2 - quite an accomplishment considering the Porsche costs substantially more....


But some people like TurboSpider believe Nissan is giving up-tuned GTRs to the press....

Say he is right...it is 'uptuned' It still means you can tweak the 72K car slightly to beat a 191K car.

Hmm.... 2 GTRs for the price of 1 GT2

I'll take Two GTRs please, one in red and one in black...


MeanVulcanMeanVulcan - 10/1/2008 7:07:39 PM
-2 Boost
AGAIN, the issue is with non-production advantages for Nissan. Changing the track PROVES NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


DenaliDenali - 10/1/2008 12:36:15 AM
+2 Boost
looks like "some cars that are not meant to beat some cars" type of issue here...

LMAO... good job godzilla


StarStar - 10/1/2008 9:53:17 PM
-3 Boost
Sounds like "Godzilla" is more of a skinny chicken in reality. LOL...


rawbuxrawbux - 10/1/2008 2:31:01 AM
0 Boost
TurboSpyder, your comment at 12:32:12 am on10/01/2008,
is perfect!! That would pretty much end the argument! LOL, end of story. There's nothing more to say, I'll take the GT2 hands down!


AutowarAutowar - 10/1/2008 3:01:41 AM
+3 Boost
the fact of the matter is nissan has the video of the nurburgring lap that was done by the GTR with standard bridgestone potenza, so watch it before starting a flame war BLOGS.the video is in japanese but it has the whole nurburgring lap.the link is:http://www.tuninglinx.com/html/best-motoring-01.html
the name of video is (Nissan GT-R story Part 2) download and watch before saying rubbish.



AutowarAutowar - 10/1/2008 3:25:13 AM
+3 Boost
Topgear test track is a power lap with medium to fast corners and on that track GTR is even faster than the carrera gt so how come it cant be faster than 911 gt2 in terms of laptimes


xlr8xlr8 - 10/1/2008 4:19:20 AM
+3 Boost
well nissan has a racing history none the less...check out this site. http://www.datsunhistory.com/Racehistory1.html There is also a side bar with more links to their wins. Also not included is there more impressive wins in the jgtc which in group A includes porsche, ferrari, mosler, mclaren...etc


xlr8xlr8 - 10/1/2008 4:22:47 AM
+3 Boost
also most car companies make econo box cars, does that mean that they also cant make awesome sports cars and exotics? I mean they have huge budgets, talented people, and the means to make this happen. To think they couldnt makes you naive.


PorschinatorPorschinator - 10/2/2008 1:56:13 PM
+1 Boost
You hit it on the nose. Early GT-Rs were running higher octane and ECU tweaked (also very hard to detect). Those cars were for show and not real world. If they sold those 'show' cars then the tranny would be dust in no time. The truth will be uncovered.

And those Japanese comparo vids are a joke! How can they get away with it? Atleast anyone that knows autos realizes that.

GT-R is a great car but not insanely great as Nissan claims. Also the ZR-1 beats GT-Rs claimed #s which makes it even greater! WOW!


weaponXweaponX - 10/1/2008 8:06:56 AM
0 Boost
WOW! I'm speechless.


M316M316 - 10/1/2008 2:44:18 PM
+1 Boost
Wow you guys are nuts. Who would go thru the trouble when it could be so easily disproved. Its not like they aren't selling the cars. I love Porsche but you guys sound irrational. It all boils down to "it must be faster because its called Porsche". Absurd.


StarStar - 10/1/2008 9:55:44 PM
-3 Boost
What part you don't understand? It's about being honest..something Nissan was never known for.


StarStar - 10/1/2008 9:58:39 PM
-3 Boost
Porsche and Star have only one thing in common. They both stand for excellence. In the same way you and Nissan SUCK big time! LOL....


S30GTRS30GTR - 10/1/2008 11:50:45 PM
+3 Boost
i met a girl at the strip club today. her name was star.


EL34EL34 - 10/1/2008 7:48:41 PM
-5 Boost
Nissan is a joke and should be dismissed!

:-/


PorschinatorPorschinator - 10/2/2008 1:40:22 PM
-2 Boost
Porsche has more to lose if they made this up! I always doubted the numerous claims of the GT-R. It IS a great car but too many numbers drew up rumors. Plenty of mags still gave the GT-R #1 in comparos but it may have been due to the hype.

Seen too many real world GT-Rs not accomplish the feats described during its launch frenzy.


350zdon17350zdon17 - 10/2/2008 2:53:46 PM
+3 Boost
Just shows you that Nissan is getting under the skin of all the competition...Just wait for the Z to come out and spank its competitors


farabira1farabira1 - 10/3/2008 2:31:22 AM
+3 Boost
You are joking right. In every single test that has been performed between GTR and the 997 turbo or the GT3 for that matter, the GTR has come out to be the quicker car, and was described to be much easier to handle on the limit, had zero turbo lag, and a much better gearbox than the porsche. I think i will take the testimony of hundreds of renowned auto journalists over the fallacy spread by dethroned and dishonored porsche contingent like you who are now spreading lies to make gtr look bad. Pathetic, effort from Porsche, a company i once admired, because of their sheer belief on themselves, everyone said rear engined sports cars are not the way to go, but they put an honest heart to building a super fun and super handling car with a rear engine and they succeeded, i liked their honesty, purity, and simplicity, but looks like after becoming the most profitable sports car company in the world, they look to be loosing that simple focus: building cars with honesty and passion, not to get bragging rights(if need arises lie to get the objective done, like they are doing now with gtr).


Yonder7Yonder7 - 10/2/2008 9:34:10 PM
+3 Boost
The fact that Porsche is trying to defend their tilte, is an award for the GTR. If they realy think that they are better, from now and on, they will have to improve the 911 in every aspect. Do you know why MB is always trying to compare the C AMG with the M3? or BMW the 7 series against the S class in luxury? Nissan is doing the same against Porsche, M3= better on the track, S= Better in luxury. Now, what Porsche will do "If they thing that they have to surpass the GTR", they will bring something better and so on, From now and aehead all the magazines will be comparing those cars and that´s a great achivement for NISSAN, no smart person will deny that, that´s final


pepito66pepito66 - 10/3/2008 12:00:30 PM
0 Boost
Stop play and lie with a prestige brands like Porche.
Stop copy german brand in everything.
The same happens with BMW and Mercedes.
Stop copying German Brands.



pepito66pepito66 - 10/3/2008 12:34:44 PM
+1 Boost
I would like both cars past the same test again , and then we know with accuracy wich is the winner.


EyecarehawaiiEyecarehawaii - 10/3/2008 1:11:36 PM
0 Boost
MOST of us can't afford ANY of the cars compared here. SO arguments about which car might be better are purely speculative and based on someone else's experience rather than your own. I suspect the person that buys one (or more) of these cars will buy it because he likes it and not because one happens to have a faster Nurburgring lap time. (The public is permitted to drive on the Nordschleif "The Ring", incidentally.)

I lived in Germany for 7 years before moving back to Hawaii. The German car shows I saw were much more unbiased in their evaluations than their equivalent American and British counterparts. There are even differences in our cultures. While Americans tend to try to be polite if we don't like something, the Germans will tell it as it is. So if Porsche got the lap times for the GT-R they published then I see no reason not to believe them. Even Nissan admits to differences in GT-R performance for various reasons. The bottom line is that the GT-R and the two that Porsche tested it against each havecharacteristics that makes it a bit better or worse that the other but all are nice cars.


tkindredtkindred - 10/3/2008 4:38:13 PM
+1 Boost
Hmm, so Eyecarehawaii, you are trying to tell me just because Porsche is German to believe them more than Nissan because they are Japanese? This is truly dumb. So, I should have trusted the girlfriend I had in Germany more than my Japanese one I had just because she was Germany? Makes sense to me. Good logic.


EyecarehawaiiEyecarehawaii - 10/3/2008 5:31:38 PM
+1 Boost
No tkindred, all I'm saying is that if the Porsche testers got those times they probably didn't make them up. I never made any reference to whether or not the Nissan test time was improperly conducted. I'll leave out any sarcasm or derogatory comments in my reply as they aren't helpful.


tkindredtkindred - 10/3/2008 6:47:02 PM
+1 Boost
OK, thats cool. Read too much into your post.


MunichRobMunichRob - 10/3/2008 9:31:01 PM
+2 Boost
I haven’t read though all the comments here so I don't know if anyone’s brought up this point, but what about all the magazine reviews we've seen that have tested these cars on other test tracks, & in turn have come up with the GT-R ahead of the Turbo?


NimalNimal - 10/8/2008 4:02:53 AM
+1 Boost
Porsche should by now know that a buying decission will not be made on "which car is faster" only! What about driver-satisfaction? Achleitner's comments unfortunately try to bring down the image of Porsche down to the level of Nissan! Bad PR Porsche!
As for me, give me a Porsche anytime. Before I decide to buy a Nissan, I will have to go down so many other preferences like Alfa Romeo, BMW, etc.
So even if the Nissan GTR is faster than a Porsche 911 ... who cares?


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