Nissan Already Using Black Box Data To Void GT-R Warranty Claims

I love GT-R, but no thanks. try somewhere lese like Lexus

All cars in te future will have this new black box which monitors everything you do...it is going to be a cheap way that all manufactures can get out fixing warranty items...Nissan just so happens to be the fisrt company to do this

What is the black box have to do with the fact that the GT-R is an unreliable POS?

Think of spending countless hours in a dirty Nissan dealership if you made the mistake of buying one of these Japanese fall-apart machines. "godzilla my a**.

i seriously doubt this guy just turned off the VDC off a "couple" times. The guys at edmunds were burning their GT-R loan and they didn't report any problems like this. he must of seriously abused it beyond recommendation

i am no Nissan Fan but it sounds like this guy is racing his car. No car will be covered if you visit the track. Porsche has been known to sent a rep to the track and copy down vins.

Expect more and more to have your black box tell on you when you mess around

Wasn't the car built to be driven on a track...... aka. aggressively?

The fact that they are voiding the warranty because it was driven w/o VDC is absurd. Why have the option of disengaging it then?.. or having an launch control option?

I drive my M5 on the track, with DSC disengaged ALWAYS and besides tires, BMW covers everything w/o a hint of regret.

I even know guys with "piggy backed" 335's who are at the track and bring their cars to the dealer and they carry out all warranty work, fully knowing that the car is modded.

I race guys with vipers, who obviously aren't babying it around the track, and even DODGE work out all warranty issues w/o a hitch.

If these accounts are true about Nissan and their famed GTR, truly dissapointing for such a great TRACK car.

kablaam- again i am not defending nissan. If your car gets by the factory you are screwed. BMW, Dodge, MB anyone. The "dealers" will do the work if the factorty will pay for it. If the factory knew you took your car to the track you would be SOL if you had a big bill (engine or trans.)

Ha, ha. How come the GT-R is such a bargain? Oh, we forgot to tell you the drivetrain can't actually handle the power coming out of the engine.

I guess this is why it is probably better to drive a Porsche!

I second that!

Dream on. I just got hosed for $3443 @ < 2 yrs / 20,000 miles because Porsche doesn't warranty clutches. Buy BMW.

It might beat Porsches around the 'Ring, but is it worth it if you are voiding your warranty? HAHA.

In all seriousness, this is absolutely horrendous on Nissan's part. Essentially what they are doing is selling you a high performance car that you can't drive as a high performance car.

http://forum.freeadvice.com/consumer-contracts-guarantees-warranties-22/issue-porsche-warranty-430705.html

I have a 2001 Porsche 911 Turbo with Porsche Certified Pre-owned warranty coverage until Feb 09. The car has excessive oil consumption (450 mi per quart vs porsche maximum allowable of 600 mi per quart). Consumption was documented by dealer over a 3 month period based on their suggested measurement method. Dealer has started to work on the car and found related evidence on the problem (oily fouled plugs) and recommended engine repair to start. Claim was submitted to Porsche corporate (who is resposible to honor the warranty since dealer is just a third party) BUT Porsche is requesting 3 additional months of tests because they believe problem may something else (for example faulty oil level gauge - note this car has no dispstick so oil can only be measured electronically). The delaer doesnt agree with their hypothesis and it also sounds bogus to me (they are just trying to find ways not to honor the warranty on an expensive repair and if they keep extending the testing, warranty will expire). Can you please advise if there is counsel that specializes in car warranties and if this would be the right point to involve external counsel? Are there any "statements" I can make that will help my case with Porsche (for instance is threatening to bring external counsel a help or will they just make things tougher?)

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22431
As some of you are aware I purchased a lovely 18 month old Boxster from Houston and had it shipped to Calgary. A couple of days (3?) after it arrived I took the car into the local shop as the taillights had some internal crazing - running your hand on the outside of the lights reveals no defects - it's all internal. The local shop took a couple of pictures,and said 'we need to send this to Porsche as we've never heard of this before'. Weeks went by and I heard nothing, so I went back in to be told 'Porsche hasn't called us back yet', so I raised a call with PCNA. Imagine my surprise to get a voicemail back from them stating 'this is due to temperature change, and as such isn't covered by the new car warranty'. I just received this message today. To recap no one, other than a local service manager, has actually seen the issue in real life, and he stated 'this is weird - I wonder what it is. We'll be in touch'. My next question - what else on my vehicle isn't covered by temperature change? How many people reading this forum live in an area where the temperature never changes? Has anyone else experienced issue with taillights crazing from the inside? To buy a new set of taillights is a couple of hundred dollars, and not a bit deal (and the new ones are all red, which will go well with the Guards Red on the car). I am, however, concerned that they will now start blaming any old thing that goes wrong with the car on weather changes - in my opinion that is total shash, and will certai

Ha, ha....What we have here a Nissan fanboi at the rescue. It doesn't really work, buddy.

Porsche sold a huge number of cars and their reputation for building reliable cars is unanimously recognised.

On the other hand Nissan sold about 10 GT-Rs and 4 of them are already defective. Ha, ha, ha.....

The truth hurts doesn't it? All manufacturers try to void warranties somehow, even Porsche. Nissan is not immune to this.

Also,

Nissan has built quite a number of GT-Rs too.
3rd gen Total = 43,934
4th gen Total = 16,422
5th Total = 11,310

Isn't the current gen sold out for quite a while too?

Truth? You don't even know what that is. You found two examples with used Porsches from the tens of thousand sold and compare that with the reliability problems Nissan confronts with after selling like.... 10 GT-Rs. Are you out of your mind? Nissan built an unreliable POS and the whole world is about to find out weather the Nissan fanbois like it or not.

OK, whatever, you're the obvious winner seeing that almost everyone on this site disagrees with you. Enjoy your big ego, or lack of one.

Cynic, there is always a risk to buying an used car, even if it is certified. Personally, I would NEVER buy a "pre-owned" car. Just too much risk -- even with carfax, you don't know who drove it before you and how hard they drove it.

Lets see 80k for the car and 20k for a new tranny after a few launches. No you spent 100k which would have gotten you a prosche but instead you have a nissan that is worthless untill you drop another 20k. Don't put youself against the best till you can back up your talk.

See above. Porsche warranty is just as worthless.

Nissan engineering...clunk, clunk...BOOOOOOM!
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha......

Put your matchbox cars away now star

Star,

We know why amazinBimmer hates Audi (assuming he is telling the truth). He claims he bought a used (estimate) 1990 Audi way back when he was undergraduate over 10 years ago, and he had trouble with it.

You, on the other hand, obviously have it in for Nissan. (I presume you don't like Infiniti either.) Care to tell us why?

Oops - I've read some of your other postings. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that you don't like Japanese cars in general. Why?

Me and star are the two guys who have the most knoledge in here.

i am a engineer. and i bet star is one to.

i also use words like "chief" and "buddy" to describe people throughout the day.

e.g. "Hey chief, get me two donuts. Thanks buddy."

Engineering degree in itself means very little.

Nissan should've programmed the computer to lock that feature after a certain number of repeated usage. Setting the limit would have saved the tranny and void customer expense and lawsuit.

Showtime,

That is a very good suggestion.

I am not sure this is any different than trashing your manual tranny clutch and flywheel etc by repeated dumping/hard use. You bought a street car not a funny car. Sounds like you expected a competition set-up at street prices.

Go down to Summit and get a real transmission and maybe the rest of a race car to go with it. And get to a strip. Maybe entering a burn out contest is what you want.

The GT-R is a specialized street machine that goes fast quickly. But, no street car can drive at max for much of the time without destruction. Any Porsche or Lambo or Ferrari owner knows that.

I bet you actually know that, too.

You broke your pretty new town car cause you drove it hard. And, its all somebody else's fault.

Boo Hoo.

Considering the fact that every magazine and car show states a 0 to 60 time for the GT-R of 3.3 seconds with LC, how can one not be expected to use this feature to get the best possible enjoyment out of the car? Why should the owner be afraid of using this feature when it is one of the PRIME selling points of the car. It seems ludicrous that you pay for such a feature but then it bites you in the a$$ when you use it...how the hell does that make sense?

First off - I do agree that Nissan should cover for this one individual case because obviously the guy is too stupid to understand this technology (and frankly Nissan should overstate this issue).

Second - Since this is the only case about this matter, lets not get carried away and say that the GTR is unreliable and that Porsche's never break because it is Bull$hit. Because similarly, if you take any Porsche and you Redline the crap out of it you will eventually either blowout your engine or burn your Clutch, and that would cost you several thousands of dollars.

I find this very unfortunate and on behalf of all those smart enough to know how to treat a Supercar- This dude is an idiot.

Comparison of stupid rich people - Guy that decides to drive his Veyron through a corn field and destroys it (is the Veyron to be blamed for not being able to fly? Hell No! Will the Warranty cover it? Hell No!)

So yes, I do blame the guy 100%. What an idiot!

I wonder how many times he must have used launch control to go to work?

GTR35, you are right. read my comment below and you will know why this guy is to blame 100%. not to brag at all but i work on cars all day long, so i know.

`wombat - right on
"race cars" are built to last 500 miles then they are rebuilt
I have taken several cars to the track and in 500 miles it gets more wear then 50k on the street

Looks like "godzilla" is more of a weakling in reality. Ha, ha, ha.......

I guess Nissan has the right to do this.

But... especially because they are the first to enforce warranty violations this way, they should have made it abundantly clear to all buyers of their program BEFORE selling it to them.

Great car, but something like this shouldn't have to be a surprise to people. On any car this would suck, but with something as expensive as the GT-R it's all the worse.

You're right...Nissan has every right to do what it did...but then the buyer had every right to walk away and buy something else!...This guy should pay...oh well...you live and learn...the hard way!

Forget about this Nissan and get a Corvette convertible and take a drive from SoCal to up North on PCH along the Pacific Ocean with the top down.

;->

quote from the article: "don't sell a car that goes 0-60 in 3.4 sec if the only way you can achieve this speed is to void the warranty , false advertising."

False advertising and fraud is Nissan signature. No surprise here.

I had the same problem with Toyota. My 2002 Camry has a factory paint defect, and I called and followed all of the directions on how to submit a claim. Only to have a regional rep say, I'm not going to paint a car with that many miles on it. I submitted a claim to Toyota about that, and their response was less than appreciated. Car manufacturers are screwing the public, which is why I have no complaints about them all losing money right now.

"I had the same problem with Toyota"

What did you expect...it's Japanese.

Star, we all know that it was you yesterday logging in as AROD and made those racist comments yesterday on the other GT-R post.

Are you ready to bet on your life for that, tool?

You see, unlike you I never made any racist comments. I like the Japanese people and their electronics but when it comes to cars ...we all know that they absolutely SUCK! That doesn't speak badly in general about them. You just cannot be good in everything...unless of course you are someone like me.

The whole black box idea is stupid.

obviously not, it just saved nissan a new tranny

This is the sort of thing BMW NA has been accused of so many times, rejecting claims under "wear and tear" due to "spirited driving" bull sh$t. If "they" cannot prove you were reckless, careless with your car, they should cover it no questions asked. The key word is "they have to prove it you were careless", not the owner.

Porsche doesn't care if you track the car and drive it like you stole it. Now you know.

That's true because Porsche's warranty is worthless and they're not gonna pay no matter what.

It's not stupid how else would Nissan be able to tell that launch control was used as many times as it was without the VDC.

Nissan has already stated that the launch control should not be used more than 10 times a day (I think) so that is what happens as a result and the black box is there to make sure people follow the directions.

10 times a day...so what happens to the transmission on the next day...and then the next...does it self heal to allow 10 more tries...I don't get it?!?

lmao

The question becomes whether or not it was disclosed on the warrenty that it would void the warrenty, if you drove it without vdc "too much".

Moreover, it must be defined how much equals "too much".

wow that sucks nissan needs to get it together I think you and others who have done this need to create a website because that car cost too much money and they have all of these people buying this car on ebay for $100,000 and more and then this. I think you should do a civil suit against nissan. I know me and I would not let this fly for nothing Nissan is responsible for this.

As I've said over a thousand times to people who actually listen...

Porche 911 Turbo 0-60 is 3.4s w/o launch control.
Nissan GT-R 0-60 is 4.0s w/o launch control.
Nissan GT-R 0-60 is 3.3s w/ launch control.

...kick Porsche in the a$$ all you want...but at least the 911 Turbo owners still have their transmissions intact after doing 0-60 run in 3.4 sec.

this is truly a joke.

a warranty that's void if you drive the delicate little car too hard...and actually try to achieve the manufacturers claims.

porsche and bmw dealers literally ENCOURAGE you to drive the cars hard. mine says, "drive it like it was meant to be driven."

pathetic nissan. truly pathetic.

this is truly a joke.

a warranty that's void if you drive the delicate little car too hard...and actually try to achieve the manufacturers claims.

porsche and bmw dealers literally ENCOURAGE you to drive the cars hard. mine says, "drive it like it was meant to be driven."

pathetic nissan. truly pathetic.

Show me a BMW that can do what the GT-R can you f***ing herb.

thats easy a m3 csl

"Show me a BMW that can do what the GT-R can"


...you mean blow up? LMAO...you are right nobody can beat Nissan at that.

"Show me a BMW that can do what the GT-R can you f***ing herb."

Obviously the GT-R cannot do what the GT-R is suppoded to be able to do, at least not without regular injections of $20,000 gearboxes. Kind of makes the whole thing pointless, don't you think????

show me a japanese car that can DO WHAT THE MANUFACTURER CLAIMS without voiding the warranty. you totally missed the point.

BMW does the same.
BMW warranty verbatum.
"This Warranty shall be null and void if the vehicle identification number has been altered or cannot be read, if the odometer has been replaced or altered and the true mileage cannot be determined, if the vehicle has been declared a total loss or sold for salvage purpose, or if the vehicle has been used in any competitive event."

How is that "the same"?

yeah really thats like comparing apples to raisins

I feel terrible for this Nissan owner as well as the rest of them. Live and learn I guess. Launching your car on the street and true racing are so far apart from each other that you would have to be an absolute IDIOT to confuse the two. Every warranty is voided from racing, even components that are sold FOR racing aren't warranted after racing. Using a Black Box to spy on the behavior of owners who are driving in a sporty way on the street is disgusting and is not even in the same universe as a racing exclusion.

actually, not the same at all.

this guy didn't drive his GT-R in a "competitive event." he just drove it hard.

i drive the shit out of my BMWs--and everything (except tires) is maintained under warranty.

uh..a competitive event can be a street race, light to light, whatever..its pretty general

stash...uh no.

so driving my car hard into corners, accelerating full-on and braking hard are "competitive events?"

Although I feel for this guy the fact is you can trash any car if try hard enough. In a related story; a friend of mine ruined his transmission on his 911 after popping the clutch around 4k rpm too many times. The dealer told him they could not cover the repair under warranty because of driver abuse. From my experience, German car companies are the worst when comes to honoring warranties

There is a fundamental difference between what happened to the GT-R and what your friend did. The GT-R is computer controlled feature specifically designed for the function of producing the best possible 0-60 time...and your friend just abused his car.

Exactly, it sounds like the guy that owns this GT-R abused his car. If you keep reading the other comments you'll figure this out.

In which way is "driving a car hard" or "driving it like it was meant to be driven", different from "any competitive event". The engine and the car will be subjected to the same wear and tear unless you crash it in the process. In the race track is called "an accident" in public roads is called "reckless driving" or "loss control of the car".
Ask your Porsche or BMW dealer to explain that when denies to honor your warranty.

how is a competitive event different from driving a car hard?

well, let's see. competitive events happen on tracks and off of public roadways. driving hard happens on normal roads and it's not reckless if you're always in control of the car and cautious about surrounding vehicles.

so have you got a point here tough guy?

"competitive events happen on tracks and off of public roadways."

not necessarily

Not sure if Nissan is brave or stupid by tryingto void warranties like this...

All I know is I would NOT buy a car that can't be driven like advertised without voiding the warranty. I don't care who makes it...

I wonder how many miles he had on it before he started testing its 0-60 claims. Anyway, the only thing I could fault Nissan for is not being up front about the entire situation. I understand their reasons. But not telling a customer about this black box and warranty restrictions before they signed for it and paid for it, is unacceptable. I'd still like a GT-R, but learning about this does make me do a double take.

Hate to be an ass but it sounds to me like someone beat the shit out of his GT-R showing off and now it's broken.

If you're one of those guys that needs to speed everywhere or use LC to look cool, have fun proving your case. The black box records your driving style like Z06 pointed out, but you already knew this ahead of time. I suspect you just made the incorrect assumption that your car was indestructible.

Sorry this happened dude.

actually thats exactly what he did...read the whole forum thread...he turned off his vdc and launched the car over twenty times with launch control before the car was even broken in. Operator error...they guy is getting flamed hardcore on the site haha.

What is that clunking noise? Ah, just another GT-R that blown after was revved over 3000 RPM. LMAO...

whos that pathetic douche speaking who drives a 82 bmw 3 series...oh wait its star lmao

o2 sensor signals swapped, bank 2 sensor 2/ bank 2 sensor 3. good luck. hope this helps.

he mentioned "accessport"... which is a device that can flash the ECU with a more aggressive tune. That to me suggests that the owner of the car is probbably beating on the car. Not that I should talk, since I have an accessport myself. :-)

Plano A4, your attempts to try and counter the GT-R 911 arguments are pathetic. You obviously are trying to counter the support the Nissan has on this website by posting anything negative about it. Get a life Autospies!

I deleted your multiple postings of the same comment but left the original. You sounded like you were stuttering there.

Anyway, I am just the conduit for the article, not the author.

And about "get a life"? Might I remind you that YOU come HERE by your own choice.

this article is hilarious. hasn't anybody heard about the so called OBDII. that's what this "black box" is. it's been around since the mid '90s. if nissan voided the warranty is because that dude did something stupid and the computer recorded all of this. F.Y.I. every car today has BODII. suckers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"that dude did something stupid"

The only stupid thing he did is to buy a Nissan. Now he pays for it. Buy the real things folks, not Japanese imitations.

Wow dude. Thats sucks not having the transmission be covered by warranty. I guess Porsche is laughing on the inside by now. All this time I thought Nissan made reliable cars...in this particular point its not. How sad.

Porsche warranty is also worthless. I know.

S30GTR- Nissan's black box is quite a bit more sophisticated than just the OBDII box. So that might have been the problem.

you mean a nore sophisticated ecm wich still uses OBDII. as far as i know OBDIII is the next thing and it is far from being done. this new ecm's can do things you can't imagine. trust me i've seen some of this stuff. so i'll have to give you some credit, but just for the word sophisticated.

i meant more.

It appears as though this guy abused his car to get it to this point. Keep reading the blog where this article was taken form and it will point you to Nissan's warranty on the GT-R. I don't what car it is, if you abuse it enough times any car will break.

star...how about you keep your one liners for the Porsche topics....you are obviously a moron.

wombat...i couldn't agree with you more. this sounds like an owner who decided he was going to play speed racer in real life and then bitch when he broke his toy...btw, in japan most cars, not just nissans, already have this technology and guess what....it will be here very soon in all cars.

I can't believe Nissan would be so freakin cheap. Basically they need a bandana and a gun cuz they're robbing people!

1) Who wrote this? The grammar is comparable to a 2nd grader...

2) WTF Nissan?!?! Charging over 100k for a car and then doing this to your customer? You will sell a lot less cars with this getting around. You better help these people out or go back to your 1990's stigma.

Either way, it's still a Nissan.

That is absolutely terrible. You can't build a car like this and expect people not to race them or use them this way. And the fact they built a black box in to monitor to me, seems somewhat underhanded. I just hope that Nissan had their sales people go over these kind of things with the buyers definitively before the sale was completed, but something tells me not to hold my breath.

Doesn't BMW void M3 warranty if you drop clutch launch your car more than a certain # of times?

WHAT IS NOT COVERED
DAMAGE, FAILURES OR CORROSION DUE TO
ACCIDENTS, MISUSE OR ALTERATIONS
This warranty does not cover damage, failures or corrosion
resulting from:
¦ Accident, theft, fi re, driving through water (including
engine water ingestion) or misuse, which includes, but
is not limited to, operation in violation of any applicable
law and racing of any sort whatsoever (Proper use is
outlined in your OWNER’S MANUAL).
¦ Alteration, tampering or improper repair, including but
not limited to adding/replacing chips, reprogramming,
or attempting to reprogram, alter, or disconnect any
computer or control unit.
¦ Operating the vehicle with the Vehicle Dynamic Control
(VDC) off, except when rocking vehicle when stuck in
mud or snow (see GT-R Owner's Manual).

If Nissan's aim to unseat everybody else is to be realised then it needs to
a) fix these warranty claims quickly and silently
b) act swiftly to rectify the fault on upcoming models
c) stop delivery on all those inbetween and fix them BEFORE they hit the streets.

Truth is that Corvette and Corvette Z06 are mighty beasts that cost less and are pretty reliable. Nissan bragged about its GPS system that knows when you are at a major track and sets the performance parameters to suit. The car was "intended" to be abused and that it shall be. Wait and see how many more of these reports pop up.

What a crowd of a..holes on this site! -especially the Fairy Star!

Before throwing stones get your facts straight!

1. NISSAN CLEARLY STATES IN THE GT-R OWNERS MANUAL THAT THE CAR SHOULD NOT BE DRIVEN WITH VDC OFF. IT IS INTENDED BE BE USED FOR MUD AND SNOW ONLY.

2. NISSAN HAS ALL GT-R BUYERS SIGN A RELEASE STATING THE SAME THING.

3. THE IDIOT WHO WRECKED HIS TRANNY IS SOME PIMPLE FACED RICH KID WHO DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO DRIVE.

4. ALL THIS BULLSHIT IS HARMING THE GREAT REPUTATION OF NISSAN AND THE VALUE OF THE GT-RS DRIVEN BY ADULTS.

5. SO STOP ALL THE BIASED BS ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR BUTT FROM A HOLE IN THE GROUND ABOUT THE GT-R AND THE FACTS SURROUNDING THE CASE.

6. IF PORSCHE RELIABILITY IS SO GREAT, HOW COME THE (ONLY) NEW PORSCHE I PURCHASED WAS DELIVERED TO ME WITH ABOUT 20 MAJOR PROBLEMS?

First off, avanti64, all caps doesn't do anything but make your post hard to read.

From "Need4Speed"
As I've said over a thousand times to people who actually listen...

Porche 911 Turbo 0-60 is 3.4s w/o launch control.
Nissan GT-R 0-60 is 4.0s w/o launch control.
Nissan GT-R 0-60 is 3.3s w/ launch control.

This doesn't address whether VDC was on or off at the time so I'm not sure of it's relevance to this discussion. Are Launch COntrol and VDC two seperate functions or the same?

Poor quality! I would never buy a nissan ever!