GT-R: giant slayer?

GT-R: giant slayer?
We’ve already been astounded by the Nissan GT-R’s performance – now it’s time to see how it compares to the high-performance elite from Lamborghini and Porsche

In the world of performance cars, there’s a widely held belief that you get what you pay for. The bigger your budget, the faster you can go – it’s as simple as that. Or is it?

Even though the first UK buyers are yet to take delivery, Nissan’s GT-R is threatening to upset the balance of power in the elite club that is the supercar sector. But there are two new arrivals on the scene which could raise the high-performance benchmark.

The Nissan was crowned Sporting Car of the Year in our 2008 New Car Honours, and the four-wheel-drive 473bhp machine has already claimed a notable scalp in the shape of Audi’s R8, in Issue 1,019. But just how good is the Japanese newcomer? Beating its closest class rivals is one thing; seeing off models at the very top of the supercar ladder is another matter entirely.

To discover exactly how talented the GT-R is, we’re pitching it against its two newest competitors. Heritage has already earned them an instant place in the supercar history books. Porsche’s 911 GT2 was designed for the race track and comes with a 530bhp engine – which is a tweaked version of the unit fitted to the already astoundingly quick 911 Turbo. At £131,080, it costs £74,980 more than the Nissan, but is widely regarded as one of the fastest and most extreme 911s ever.

Equally exotic and no less exclusive is the Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4. Yours for the hefty sum of £147,330, the Italian machine comes with a thunderous V10 that generates 552bhp. As with the Nissan, it delivers its power through a state-of-the-art four-wheel-drive system, and is quite simply one of the world’s most desirable sports cars.

Can the GT-R put in a giant-slaying performance, or will the might and muscle of ‘cost-no-object’ supercars prove to be a challenge too far?

Verdict:

f speed and performance are your overriding concerns, then look no further than the awesome Nissan GT-R. Despite losing out in the horsepower stakes, the Japanese machine accelerates quicker than either of its two opponents here.

It’s also the easiest to exploit, and can make an average driver feel like a legend in the space of two corners. The fact it undercuts both rivals by more than £75,000 is merely confirmation that Nissan has quite literally pulled a fast one on the performance car sector.

Yet while it takes the victory, fans of more traditional supercars shouldn’t tear down their Porsche and Lamborghini posters just yet. Although the Nissan is clearly a remarkable feat of engineering, in terms of sheer desirability, its rivals remain kings of the hill. You admire the Nissan, but you adore the 911 and the Gallardo.

So which finishes second? For our money, the LP560-4 offers the definitive supercar package. The new engine makes it even quicker, and the styling tweaks give it a sharper look. While the 911 is amazingly quick, it’s a little too focused for daily use, and we reckon a standard Turbo would be more than enough for most.

1st- GT-R

2nd-LP-560-2

3rd-GT2
Read Article

0to600to60 - 10/20/2008 7:54:25 PM
+4 Boost
Turbo, geez, do you just copy and paste the same garbage in every post???? We've read it. We get it ok! Geez. Please get new material!!!


geniusnoumangeniusnouman - 10/20/2008 9:52:45 PM
+2 Boost
well i think its a shame that after having such a race history, porsche gets beaten by a brand that has a *lame racing history*


993Turbo993Turbo - 10/21/2008 8:42:05 AM
+1 Boost
Yes, and the GT-R's tranny is only good for six laps!


abcdabcd - 10/21/2008 12:03:04 PM
+2 Boost
"You're just ashamed of Nissan's lame racing history."

It`s almost the same as BMW so I think it`s not that bad .



F1_DriverF1_Driver - 10/21/2008 12:10:24 PM
+2 Boost
Nissan's racing history:

http://www.datsunhistory.com


bigmotovbigmotov - 10/20/2008 12:10:24 PM
+1 Boost
I bet the Lambo and GTR had illegal tires ;)


bigmotovbigmotov - 10/20/2008 1:05:30 PM
+6 Boost
Wow, I knew someone would bite! :)

Here we go again..."sticky Dunlops" are what you'll find on the GTR when you buy it. If the others wish to use bicycle tires, Nissan can't help that. Sorry, EVERY manufacturer tweaks the HP rating.

We're also getting tired of the race wins...it's irrelevant and you're grasping at straws.


0to600to60 - 10/20/2008 7:56:14 PM
-2 Boost
Then the GT-R's transmission will fail during the race and the porsche will finally catch up, pass it and win. LOL


F1_DriverF1_Driver - 10/20/2008 11:30:38 PM
+2 Boost
^^^The transmission only failed when launch control was abused not during racing around a track. Get your facts straight.


0to600to60 - 10/21/2008 10:58:28 AM
+1 Boost
It was a joke! Geez!


njsidekick3njsidekick3 - 10/20/2008 12:12:58 PM
+11 Boost
Godzilla + 1st Place = Konichiwa... Bitches!


M35MTM35MT - 10/20/2008 12:26:39 PM
+7 Boost
Awesome.


S30GTRS30GTR - 10/20/2008 1:17:35 PM
+8 Boost
can't wait to see what the v-spec can do to the rest of the supercars. this car is amazing. WOW.


PerformanceGuyPerformanceGuy - 10/20/2008 1:18:08 PM
+8 Boost
Good job Nissan!! The GT-R is simply amazing!!


MiltonMilton - 10/20/2008 1:25:37 PM
+8 Boost
The GT-R is a monster.Without a doubt the best supersports car in decades.


JUGNUJUGNU - 10/20/2008 3:26:40 PM
+8 Boost
agree completly. Nissan GT-R is ground breaking. And People here in UAE love it so much that there are already more than 100 GT-Rs on the roads(early GCC specs cars with big mark ups) and it's still not officially sold, it will be officially launched in Nov 2009. People can't wait. We recentley sold a red GT-R for 520,000 Dirhams (140K USD), silver and black are another 10K USD more expensive.

JUGNU


JUGNUJUGNU - 10/20/2008 3:28:30 PM
+4 Boost
correction: it will be officially launched in Feb 2009 not Nov 2009.

JUGNU


LexusLexus - 10/20/2008 5:10:34 PM
+6 Boost
Wait the minute, are you guy/girls sure Nissan did NOT cheat like Porsche said? LOL...

But wait, this time it was done by another reviwer NOT Nissan, and the GT-R win again. Many other independent tester has already prove the GT-R beat Porsche, and other Supercar over, and over again.

All of the above are incredible piece of timeless art, and I wouldn't mind owing anyone of them.

congratulation Nissan and your engineering team.

Lexus


bintintinbintintin - 10/20/2008 6:41:42 PM
-2 Boost
I have a lot of respect for the GT-R and think it is an amazing car, not my taste though. But I also have some serious doubts about those HP numbers that Nissan is claiming. I know things can be tuned and electronic gizmos added to make things faster, but I feel the HP numbers are too low or they are supplying a "Special" car for these comparisons. I haven't even touched on the possible tranny issue yet, I figure more will come.


S30GTRS30GTR - 10/20/2008 11:14:05 PM
+2 Boost
it's not just about horse power to weight ratio. it's about how well you put that power to the ground, and looks like that's where nissan succeds.


abcdabcd - 10/21/2008 11:55:21 AM
+2 Boost
TurboSpyder , various dyno tests has shown that the gt-r is doing about 420 hp at wheels , that is what we know for sure . And wheel hp rating is one of a factors that matters how quickly car can accelerate , not the engine horsepower . We don`t know how big drivetrain loses it has so we can only estimate the engine hp but the 600+ hp you said sounds completely ridiculous . Have you any clue what are the average drivetrain loses in the other AWD cars ? And I`m curious what are wheel hp numbers for the 530 hp RWD porsche 911 gt2 they tested but I think more than gtr`s 420 .


F1_DriverF1_Driver - 10/21/2008 12:11:42 PM
+2 Boost
What about this video? Ben Linney (the owner) supplied the GT-R. Surely, Nissan of Japan had no idea that Ben was going to test his GT-R against a 911TT? Oops! Back to the drawing board to come up with a better conspiracy theory.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=F2IHcp10BRI


F1_DriverF1_Driver - 10/21/2008 2:02:39 PM
+1 Boost
^^^Put Nissan's chief test driver in the driver's seat and you will see those "huge blow-out numbers". The bottom line is the GT-R beat the 911TT for less $$$. Now go back to developing conspiracy theories to explain why the GT-R consistently beat the 911TT on the racetrack.


abcdabcd - 10/22/2008 5:27:33 AM
+2 Boost
TurboSpyder:
"(552bhp / 1410kg)* (1740kg) = 681 bhp!

As for what the GT-R has dynoed at, it depends on which car they test. I bet that a GT-R ... "

Yea , yea , you always bet something , what I said are the facts and that`s the difference . Various dyno tests has shown that the gt-r is doing about 420 hp at wheels , that is what we know for sure . And even the wheel hp number isn`t directly connected to car`s acceleration , there`s also very important factor , the gearing . Directly connected with acceleration is force effectively transferred ( that can be transferred by tyres --> Gtr tires don`t squeak very much ) to the ground by wheels in the function of mph , the gearing and engine torque in the function of revs is directly connected with force at the wheels , and there are also other factors like air resistant force , gear change time ... . Really , stop your wrong estimates .
There was also 911 turbo dyno from Edmunds site where it was putting 400whp , so poer to weight ratio is:
911 : 400 whp / 3500 Ibs = 0,114 whp per Ib
gt-r : 420 whp / 3836 Ibs = 0,1095 whp per Ib
So , gtr has worse ratio but still is faster around the various tracks as tested by magazines .


abcdabcd - 10/22/2008 6:20:30 PM
+1 Boost
OK , you can`t understand that . I don`t know what is the gearing in the Lambo but for example I remember a video where a corvette z06 was doing more than 60 mph on the 1st gear while gt-r would be than at the 3rd . I also remember when you were posting some max speed numbers and acceleration at higher speeds and gt-r was than significantly slower than competition with better hp/weight .
Nevertheless , basing on your "logic" ( where estimate is worth more than proof ) we could also say that gt-r has 480 hp ( you don`t accept the proof --> 420 whp ) and the Lambo is significantly overestimated :

( 480 / 1740 ) * 1410 = 390 engine hp

Who cares it sounds ridiculous . It`s so "logical" . Do you agree ?

----
About Datsun 510 .
I agreed that they copied conception of the BMW which means they entered market niche created probably by bmw 1600 --> fun to drive sedans with advanced suspensions . Yes , they copied suspension design to achive aim of good handling but the car was looking DIFFERENT outside than BMW 1600 , you`re probably blind if you say they`re looking similar . If you think they`re looking similar becouse they`re both 4 door angular sedans with similar size than look at the other similar size sport sedans of the time like the 1962 Afla romeo giulia or 1966 ford cortina . BTW the Alfa also used trailing arms at the rear .

Here`s respectable source :
"Despite these successes though, look up any article, magazine, or book - anywhere man has spun thoughts into words to describe the 510 - and you'll find the phrase "poor man's BMW." Sure, it sold for a bargain $1996, but just as much of this nickname probably originates from popular misconceptions circulated for enough years to become scripture. Some of the most common charges claim that the 510 outright copied the famous BMW 2002 or that Italian designers Pininfarina styled the 510. Fortunately, we talked to Merlin Blackwell of DatsunHistory.org, an authority on the subject with years of research under his belt.

According to Blackwell, then President of Nissan USA, legendary Yutaka "Mr. K" Katayama, "requested specs for a 410/411 replacement based on a car that could go head to head with the BMW 1600." The 2002, an evolution of the 1600, "came out months after the 510. The 510 was inspired by the 1600, but done the Japanese way for sure." Although the technology is common nowadays, back then few cars besides BMWs ran trailing-arm suspensions like the 510. Perhaps part of the lore also stems from the fact that, as Blackwell notes, Nissan's L16 engine was likely influenced by the recent merger with Prince Motor Co., who in 1960 based their L20 6-cylinder on an earlier motor from that other German manufacturer, Mercedes-Benz.

Even more curious is the persistence of the design myth. In 1986 Autoweek wrote, "Pininfarina had been hired to create its graceful lines. (Not that even Datsun fully saw the genius in this; the 510 was followed by the 610, 710 and F-10, each mor


abcdabcd - 10/22/2008 6:22:21 PM
+1 Boost
In 1986 Autoweek wrote, "Pininfarina had been hired to create its graceful lines. (Not that even Datsun fully saw the genius in this; the 510 was followed by the 610, 710 and F-10, each more appalling than the one before)." In reality, Pininfarina had designed the 410, but the 510 "styling was completely up to Japan," corrects Blackwell. "In the end it was an effort to do in house styling to get away from a perceived too-Italian look."

http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/article.cgi?section=profiles&article=datsun510rotary

So , that "respectable" Autoweek source did mistakes . And BTW about Prince engine head based on Mercedes`s :

"Critics have called the design of the 510 a rip off of the BMW 1600, but if you look at the Nissan President of 1965 or a Toyota Crown, its not hard to figure out that Uchino's design inspirations were probably based a little closer to home. A larger car of the same era, the Nissan Laurel, shares a striking resemblance to the 510 as well. ...

I've heard some speculation that Prince had a licence agreement with Mercedes, hence some of the resemblance with that company's engines."

http://www.datsunhistory.com/510history1.html

I`m curious why these respectable sources never say enything about German copies like VW Beatle or Porsche 924 :
Design:
Back:
Jensen Interceptor
http://www.wwebw.com/jensen/images/wDSCN0830.jpg
http://home.hiwaay.net/~tjhiggin/hwystar/tvmcbig_files/image002.jpg
Porsche 924
http://www.carlustblog.com/images/2008/03/24/porsche_back.jpg
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/porsche-924-2.jpg
Front:
Triumph TR7
http://www.adclassix.com/images/76triumphtr7.jpg
or Lotus Elcat
http://www.club-lotus.fr/typo3temp/pics/7b1912dd83.jpg
Porsche 924
http://www.carlustblog.com/images/2008/03/24/porsche_front.jpg
http://www.pistonheads.com/pics/news/16161/924a-L.jpg

So , designing it they took inspiration from British sports cars .
For engineering they looked to Italy for front engine with REAR TRANSAXLE arrangement .


abcdabcd - 10/23/2008 3:44:16 AM
+2 Boost
OK , better end that GT-R horsepower becouse this is going nowhere . If you think it has 650 hp , good , great horsepower rating from 3.8 turbo engine with almost no turbo lag . I curious why you don`t accept the fact that 911 turbo was tested by Edmunds at dyno and it had 400 whp , GT-R Edmunds tested had also 400 whp , and still GT-R was accelerating faster despite bigger weight .
----
Yes , the 510 design was based partially on Pininfarina styled 410 , what`s bad in that , that`s also Datsun , for example Golf I was styled by Giugiaro and Golf II was styled by VW design director Schäfer who kept the general lines of its Giugiaro-designed predecessor . Oh , I forget , Datsun 510 was Japanese so you`re hard at work to find something bad about it . TurboSpyder , nice attept at searching the articles from not competent journalists that even don`t know who designed the 510 , this journalists are only repeating what they heard , they even not searching if it`s true .


abcdabcd - 10/23/2008 11:07:52 AM
+1 Boost
"they don't state the hp that they got for the 997 turbo. If you look at their hp graphs, you can see that the GT-R has a slightly higher peak hp than the 997."

I don`t understand what you said . Once you`re saying that they don`t state the 911 turbo whp and than you`re saying that you read whp from the graph . Yes , look on the graph , it`s almost the same , and all GT-Rs that have been tested on dyno also have got 410-420 whp , owner`s cars and magazine`s to tests .


abcdabcd - 10/23/2008 11:19:49 AM
+2 Boost
"I look forward to more creativity from you."

I don`t know why the GT-R is faster than the Lambo in the test , I only said potential reasons ( factors from which acceleration depends ) and the facts --> the GT-R and 997 turbo wheel horsepower ratings that are undoubtable .
Still , what you have said are estimates .


abcdabcd - 10/23/2008 3:34:23 PM
+1 Boost
"You would have to get out your ruler and measure how high above the 400 hp line the 997's hp curve goes and then use the scale to estimate the 997's peak hp."

Ha Ha , now I know why I almost never can`t reach an agreement with you , you concentrate on the unimportant things . We really don`t need a precision ( for example +/- 1 whp ) that have to be measured by a ruler in that case . This is statistically unimportant .


Yonder7Yonder7 - 10/20/2008 9:04:15 PM
+1 Boost
No racing heritage for Nissan is REALLY good for Porsche...can you imagine what Nissan could be doing with the racing expirience of, let say Ferrari?. Porsche, is time avandon evolution and start to think in revolution.


Need4SpeedNeed4Speed - 10/20/2008 9:27:14 PM
-2 Boost
GT-R...giant slayer?...sure...whatever...how many times before the "slingshot" (aka transmission) fails because it got pulled too hard?


F1_DriverF1_Driver - 10/20/2008 11:33:28 PM
-4 Boost
^^^The reported transmission failure was due to using launch control abusively not due to racing around the track. Get your facts straight.


FluxxFluxx - 10/21/2008 1:23:19 AM
+4 Boost
Nissan does have a racing history, and a fairly good one. The 510 was always great in its class in Trans Am, the Z has been made into a successful racecar since it was introduced, and the GT-R did pretty good for itself in Austrailan and Japanese series. The one thing I hate about GT-R articles is how they ballyhoo about the price. What stealership in the U.S. isn't adding at least a $30k markup to the GT-R? I could make a car and say it costs $15.00, but if its not sold for $15.00 then its not really a $15.00 car is it?


LexSucksLexSucks - 10/21/2008 11:53:33 AM
+1 Boost
Too bad you can actually drive the Nissan like that. You can drive it like that but Nissan will void your warranty for driving the car in a nature in which it wasn't really designed for. The Nissan seems to be desinged to last just long enough (while driving hard) to win a comparison test.


LexSucksLexSucks - 10/21/2008 12:58:31 PM
+1 Boost
I meant to say "Too bad you can't actually drive the Nissan like that", not "Too bad you can actually drive the Nissan like that"


LexSucksLexSucks - 10/21/2008 4:39:29 PM
+2 Boost
Dont you mean "go to an open track day and watch the GTR beat krauts all day long and drive home to a voided warranty". The GTR is a nice car but not the best.

The GTR is an economy (read cheap) version of an exotic car. I'd rather have the real thing (and no warranty issues).


F1_DriverF1_Driver - 10/21/2008 8:04:26 PM
+1 Boost
Nissan's racing history:

http://www.datsunhistory.com


F1_DriverF1_Driver - 10/22/2008 11:18:36 AM
+2 Boost
Me laughing at the 911TT getting a beat down from the GT-R:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=F2IHcp10BRI


LexSucksLexSucks - 10/22/2008 1:53:45 PM
0 Boost
At least when something goes wrong with the porsche the company will stand behind their product. Unlike Nissan who refuses to honor any warranty repair on the GT-R.


inspirion7inspirion7 - 10/21/2008 11:50:00 PM
+1 Boost
Porsche = old, mid life crisis starch around the neck, wouldn't if I could. Good for baby boomers ( Rolex, Harleys and Rogain is too)

Nissan= new forward thinking, Gen X affordable fun. Do the numbers.

Just having fun but, hay it is what it is...



LexSucksLexSucks - 10/22/2008 1:50:48 PM
+1 Boost
Porsche Slow? Can you explain to me how you came to that conclusion?


F1_DriverF1_Driver - 10/22/2008 1:58:16 PM
+2 Boost
^^^Sure I'll show you instead of explaining because action speaks louder than words:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=F2IHcp10BRI


Cornholio852Cornholio852 - 10/22/2008 8:02:22 AM
+1 Boost
clash of the titans


F1_DriverF1_Driver - 10/22/2008 8:31:52 PM
0 Boost
^^^Yes I agree there's no substitute for a slower car but if you want a car faster than a 911TT you can get this one:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=F2IHcp10BRI


GTR1GTR1 - 10/23/2008 1:48:18 AM
+1 Boost
GTR is my favorite car as my name imply but F1 you make it sound like the 997TT is a very slow car. LOL it's by no means slow. The only major arguments we have for the GTR is it's price and bang for buck value. Super cars don't have "bang for buck value". It's the glam, fortune, sound, engine, quality, and etc. Nissan has done awesome with engineering the GTR but it by no means have glam, fortune, or the quality of a super car. IT doesn't matter. I still love my GTR. For what it is , an easy to drive sports car that can impress.


F1_DriverF1_Driver - 10/23/2008 2:50:28 PM
+1 Boost
GTR1, I didn't say the 911TT was the slowest car I said the slower car.


F1_DriverF1_Driver - 10/23/2008 3:13:21 PM
+1 Boost
TurdoSpyder, the GT2 and the GT-R are not direct competitors. The GT-R V-Spec is more of a direct competitor with the GT2.


topneurotopneuro - 10/22/2008 2:43:37 PM
0 Boost
The Nissan 2010 GT-R will have 550 hp.


GTR1GTR1 - 10/23/2008 1:42:52 AM
+2 Boost
Two GTR's in my city have been tested and generates a whopping 503hp for one and 507 for the other, that's not even the Spec V. !!!! That is why it kills the Porsche.


topneurotopneuro - 10/22/2008 5:28:41 PM
+1 Boost
There have been multiple Nissan GT-R Horsepower Torque Dyno Results from multiple independent testers with numbers as low as 409 hp and as high as 572 hp.
I would not recommend chasing these numbers with such a large fluctuation.

Japan Nissan official rating of Stock 2009 GT-R Horsepower Certification has been 480 PS, which equates to 473 hp using the SAE standard in the U.S.



shiftlessshiftless - 10/23/2008 12:30:08 AM
+2 Boost
First and foremost in the big screens and in real life Godzilla is king.If this was a game of weight and horsepower than nissan would lose. But the end result is who is faster and NO ONE EVER REMEMBERS WHO THE SECOND PLACE FINISHERS ARE. Thanks to Nissan engineering team, they were able to bring us the ULTIMATE Driving machine the average joe can drive.


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