New Acura TL BETTER By A Nose Than The BMW 335? Or Is It?

It should read: "New Acura TL uglier in the Nose Than The BMW 335?"

I very much dout its better then the BMW and if it was It is still fugly...G37X sedan stays top in that class

The marketplace is the final arbiter. If the TL was truly a better car, people would pay more for it than the BMW, not less. Alas, that is not the case. Thus, to the people who matter (the buyers and the dealers and the manufacturers), the TL is vastly inferior to the BMW despite journalists saying otherwise.

Take it easy 001, don't freak out to much. Someone is making a case against your beloved BMW (right or wrong), oh no. Take a couple deep breaths and you'll be fine.

LOL!

Just giving everyone equal airtime to state their case.

We report, you decide.

001

YEAH RIGHT!!

Rob has drank the Acura Kool-Aide... The TL can't come close in any area to the 335xi..

Notice no specs were give on performance, acceleration, braking, etc, etc, etc.

Not to mention how fugly the TL has become.

Now hold on a second, not one area? That's overstating don't you think? Recently, Acura released a 2010 6spd manual TL sh awd to the automotive press. They drove it around a track and it was quicker than the 335i, 335xi, g35, and even the Audi S4. Make sure you search it on the web before you reply.

BTW, weren't yo invited to the test day 001? If not, why?

Because Acura and Honda only invite media that is already in the tank for them.

They are very protective, secretive and sensitive to ANY constructive criticism.

And their executives are real dinosaurs when it comes to the net...they think it's a fad like Starbucks ;)

001

That said though, a dealer snuck me into one of them right around that time for a couple hour drive.

I owned the last TL myself and loved everything but the torque steer and poor fuel economy.

But the new design has lost me...hideous, in my opinion.

001

Remember, a stop watch can't give its opinion. So are you saying you did or did not have a chance to drive the 6spd sh awd at Acura's track day? I have driven the 5spd(dinosaur) auto and its rediculous.

QuantumMatrix (Star),

Remember, at you, not with you.

335i all the way.

Being an Acura salesperson I would like to make a comment that I know will get blasted here. The TL on paper is a 5 series competitor at 3 series money. They have virtually identical sizes, capacities and engine outputs (M5 excluded). The TSX compares to the ENTRY level 3 series. The MAJOR mistake by Acura is that they haven't released a true 335 competitor. Drop a 6sp 280HP 6 into the TSX and that would be the closest they could come. The TL has always been on paper the 5 serier closest rival from Acura. Most people, including major magazines, compare by the monies when testing manufacturers' product.
But, word is, the TSX will offer a higher output 6 to go along with a diesel and the 2.4l 4 in the current setup. This should give the customer options, something BMW is very good at considering 3 series is anywhere from 30k to 45k. The Germans make some fantastic looking cars that drive very well. But I would put the new TL against any entry level 5 series and I think the TL would fare quite well.

By the way, if any of you (a lot) haven't driven the new TL, you should.

V-10 NSX

I agree with you Jsell, some people like to bash any competitor to the BMW empire, but never look at the cars objectively (from a neutral standpoint) and make an honest opinion, but the TL definitely compares to the 535i/528i.

jsell, I recently test drove both the TL & TSX. Did not like the TSX, felt all over the place on the highway. The TL was better but still there is some torque steer as well as that hideous front end. The issue to me is the FWD. It doesn't feel as sporty as other cars in this segment like my BMW 3 Series or the Lexus IS or even the Infiniti G37....all of these are RWD and seem to feel like they handle much better than the TL. I am few hrs drive to fun twisty bits of the Adirondack's and let me tell you, Acura still has a way to go in handling dept .

What is this? This video looks like it belongs on MySpace or some other personal blog. Is this guy for real? Is he aiming for a raise or something?

The 335xi is a fantastic piece, does this dude seriously think the people interested in buying the BMW would consider hopping into this over-styled spaceship? I saw one on the highway yesterday, and it was polarizing in a really bad way. Its truly HIDEOUS.

Also, since I own a 335i, I'll point out that the "stiff" steering feel is awesome and that most people prefer to know what the car is doing as opposed to the loose steering feel he claims is better. And firm seats are better for long distance comfort than extra soft seats.

I'll give Acura credit as always for their standard features and value. And kudos also for addressing torque steer with the SH-AWD. But in my opinion, the 3-series BMW can't be knocked out by a machine this ugly.

Chip, so are you saying that looks determines the winner? These are automobiles, not Miss America Contestants. Give me a break, look at the stats and tell me the TL can't beat the 3...

Ok, The TL can't TOUCH the 3-series. There's a reason it's the benchmark.

And if this WAS a beauty contest, that pig would be dead last.

BTW - this "Chip" isn't Chip from AutoSpies, just to be clear. It's some other guy.

I think thats pretty clear. I've been on this site for years, but thanks for the shout out! And my name is Chip, not "some other guy"

Acura has decent engines, but nothing spectacular. The TSX may get good gas mileage, but its performance sucks. The V6 in the RL is nothing to boast about nor are the engines in the SUVs either

So are you saying Acura has better engines that BMW? I never thought I'd even have to type that sentence.

How many people on this site would rather have an inline twin turbo six that gets great gas mileage and offers AMAZING performance at the same time?

Keep in mind that the TSX's motor is normally aspirated with 201 hp. A pretty good feat.

What makes the Honda/Acura motors so good is their reliability. Problems per 100 motors worldwide is one of the best in the industry. Performance wise, BMW is definitely one of the best, and Acura even with the TL's 305 hp is still in "catchup" mode.

i consider a high reving engine more advanced than a blower anyday of the week.
by the same token, I respect the M3 more than 335, even if 335 does out perform M3 in acceleration.

besides, only god knows whether those 335 can pass 100k mark. I have yet to see a EVO pass 100k mark without having engine rebult.

There is no replacement for displacement.

"Keep in mind that the TSX's motor is normally aspirated with 201 hp. A pretty good feat."

No, not when you consider that the Audi A4 2.0T's smaller turbocharged unit gives it 10 more horsepower, 86 more lb ft of torque and only gets 1 MPG worse. It's also larger on the outside and more spacious on the inside.

"There is no replacement for displacement."

There sure is. This kind of thinking isn't going to work in the twenty-first century. Forced induction is the way to go, because it's more efficient, period. An FI car with the same power from a smaller engine will get better mileage.

i fear the reliability of turbo, you can get all the power you want from a small block, but your engine won't hold up as well as a non-FI car. besides,i would argue that you cannot get 3.5L of performance with 2.0 L of fuel consumption.

S4 you are such a donut. I said normally aspirated. I thought you were a car enthusiast? Normally aspirated means no forced induction, ie turbo.

I heard that the twin turbo I6 is still not as responsive as a naturally aspirated engine - whether it be Acura's or BMW's own, that to me is a big FAIL.

Who told you that?

Rob, the Acura salesman.?

What are you talking about? As one who has spent a lot of time behind the the 535i and 335i wheel, the turbo is far more responsive than the N/A engine. You receive all three hundred foot pounds of tourque at 1400 rpms and is flat all the way to 5000 rpm's and turbo lag is no where to be found.

Who ever told you that has never driven the car.

Don't forget there is still some turbo lag, not much, but its still present.

^^^^^^ You heard wrong, go drive one. The N54 engine is the best non M engine, ever.

because they are all cars?

much like everything in life, school, job, business. one that is most capable wins, no matter he is black, asian or caucasian.

I am not sure about his commets about BMW

Take it for what it's worth - I know many will believe it will be worth less than zero...I was surprised by this review, as I have heard that the twin turbo I6 is the bees knees, but I trust this man's point of view - he has stated numerous times that he thinks the TL is tacky (I actually agree with him).

But that doesn't mean BMW is perfect or it does not have room for improvement as well. I actually think Acura (Honda) engine tech is just mid grade performance/refinement-wise when compared to its competitors - Honda tends to make leaps and bounds followed by minor updates, for its seems like decades (NSX, S2000 anyone), so I think the latest crop of Acura's while being extremely tacky looking compete well performance-wise, despite being a stepping stone to their 'A' game which will hopefully come with Acura's just confirmed V8 and V10 engines.

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=789695&page_number=2

'While I have driven a number of BMWs over the years, this was my first chance to try out BMW's highly regarded 3.0L twin-turbo I-6 in the E90. As the benchmark in the class and based upon my past experiences with BMWs, my expectations for this car were very high. In my first go with the 335i, I came away somewhat disappointed. The twin turbo 3.0 I-6 provides really good midrange thrust, sounds fantastic, and is supremely smooth. On the negative side, throttle response is a little bit lazy, there's a tiny bit of boost onset delay, and at the upper reaches of the tach it's just not pulling any harder than its peers, despite its weight advantage. Also, on the track, I had to fight the shifter more often than I felt was necessary. Upshifting or downshifting while traveling straight wasn't any problem, but upshifting while exiting a turn or downshifting upon entry both created frustrating challenges. Even with the sport package, the 335i had a bit of a viscous feel to it compared to the rest of the vehicles, with more pronounced body roll and a filtered feel to the steering and throttle. It didn't feel as crisp as the G35 or even the S4, so I was a little bit surprised that I ended up turning my 2nd fastest lap of the day (on the 7th stint) in the 335i. Despite the FR layout, the 335i was more prone to understeer than oversteer, though I'm sure you could probably coax it into some lurid tail-out attitudes if you really wanted to. Though we didn't drive any of these vehicles on the street, I came away with the feeling that the 335i sport was probably tuned more for the street.'

All I am saying is Acura makes good products and SH-AWD is unmatched right now butt I am not getting into this pissing war, however doesn't that dealer resemble "Tiger Woods" yall.

Why not just buy a V6 Honda Accord with Nav and save yourself over 10 grand.

Then people wont throw up when they see you driving.

FWD no SH-AWD

Didn't we go through this already?

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=132226?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..1.*#2

TL beats the pants off 2008 BMW 335i Sport; 2008 BMW 335xi Sport, 2008 Audi S4 Quattro manual, 2008 Infiniti G35s by 2 seconds on a short 1.6mile track.

The 335xi aka faux AWD can't even hold a candle next to the superior SH-AWD TL... on less than perfect roads the POS open-differential based 335 will dance around to find grip like a tricycle in a ice rink, this is a funny article :)

Yes - but we were referring to BMW's I6, albeit from the same test, but from a different participant...I think it's pretty much a given Acura's SH-AWD is a sign of things to come, as BMW, Audi, and other competitors are doing their own versions of SH-AWD (just like they have done their own versions of VTEC)

The point I was making with the reference to that test, is that BMW's I6, while very good, is not perfect.

while i dont give a crap about acuras anymore, because i do give a lot of importance to a car looking good...why isn't star all over this by now? haha

QuantumMatrix aka star responded above

what is this guy smoking? it is like comparing apples to oranges...as a current owner of a 535 and 330(conv) and previous acura tl-s owner there is no comparison..all the things this guys likes about acura, easy electric-numb steering,braking and handling are the reasons i HATED my acura, the entire time i had my 3 year lease i regretted settling to save $100/month on my lease, oh and by the time my lease was over and i paid for the acura maint/brakes etc, it was almost the same as my bmw with free maint....come on who would drive a tl for the same $$ as a bmw if you really think about it...go try and lease a tl vs bmw's aggressive lease deals, they are very close.....

Shocking?

Deny that the brand has gone from riches to rags and virtually lost ALL it's cachet in the last few years with WHATEVER they produce.

I'm waiting...

001

Rags is in the eyes of the beholder they still sell more vechicles than Infiniti so the riches is there.

001 - always good to find a site that's not in anyone's pocket.

The media buzz is certainly positive on this one. I look forward to driving the SH-AWD myself, once it arrives at dealers next month.

One thing I've found time and time again--most recently in a Saab TurboX--is that even a sophisticated AWD system cannot entire compensate for a nose-heavy weight distribution. Why not? Because you have to get fairly deep into the throttle for the AWD system to work its magic. There's none of the gradual transition from perfect balance to oversteer that you get in a well-done RWD car.

Thank you for the compliment.

I can't help it.

I'm a customer at heart and I'm sick of seeing the media (ALL of it lately), in the tank for one thing or another.

I promise you and all my readers (should be a given by now) that I will NEVER soften and always give you my true opinion no matter what.

Being raised Catholic, I'm not a fan of guiltfull, restless nights with my conscience.

I could have been A LOT wealthier and in higher position if I would cave in like the others and be comfortable with mediocrity.

Just not in my DNA.

Not saying I'm not without many flaws, but caving in like most of the auto media outlets, is not something that will ever happen.

001

Plus, I can't get fired cause I know the owner ;)

001

LOLOL!

You funny guy!

001

WEll....In conclusion. The Acura is a disaster.. Im afraid that salesman didnt mention it. Its disgustingly ugly. Its like while designing the designer got a heart attack. Clearly that guy doesnt know what a BMW is for. Its not for pretenders and housewives. Its for people who like driving cars and enjoy every second of it. although most of its sales are for pretenders. Just go buy an Audi or a Merc if you want a comfortable car.

Go back to the drawing board Acura.

MB? C class is one of the bottom in its class

the TL look way better than the 3series, the 3series is a over price piss of sh$t

I would like to make a comment about the "stiff" steering wheel.
BMW is a german car, thus has to take into account the autobahn. There is a term used in Europe that might not be familiar to people here: Sneeze-steer disaster.
That is why BMW steering wheels are stiff, Mercedes steering wheels have a dead-center feel.

If you are doing 100-155MPH on the road and you sneeze while holding the steering wheel, perhaps quite violently, well guess what?

In engineering, everything is done for a specific reason.

Nice PR stunt by Acura. I have owned 2 Legends and 3 Accords and loved them but I would NEVER buy a car this UGLY! What the heck were they thinking???

I currently drive an 08 335xi Coupe. I agree that the Infiniti is next on the list. If you don't want a BMW for some reason buy an Infinit. Acura is toast if the they don't get a new design team. They even screwed up the original RL design with the 09 refresh.

One thing that I think is truly funny here. Look at the responses this article has compared to the other articles recently. Anyone saying anything bad about the BMW machine and the floodgates are open.

V-10 NSX

Welcome to BMWspies...

I would take the BMW. The TL is ugly as hell and the 335 is one of the best looking cars in it's class. I have to say though, there was definitely some turbo lag on the 335 when I test drove it.

'I have to say though, there was definitely some turbo lag on the 335 when I test drove it.'

That's all I'm saying...BMW=not perfect

There is no way I can see where the TL is compared with a 335.....I might see comparing a G35 to a 335... the mushy handling and FWD is only good for laid back dudes...out there.... my .02... Acuras suck right now...stay away...with all that plastic wood crap....

That's funny "with all the plastic wood crap", Acura has taken the interior layout to a new class with the TLs new interior. I sell Acura's (as everyone knows) and that means we trade for some very good product. I have driven ALL the TLs competitors, not one or 2, but all of them, and this interior and refinement beats them all. The seats ARE first rate for its competition. The MAJORITY of all car buyers are not enthusiast. The new TL will glide you down the highway (which the previous gen would not) or take on any twisting road. It will not do it as sporting as BMWs, but nonetheless, for a car or its size it more than holds its own. And the tech pack is worth it for the stereo alone, 440 watt 5.1 surround sound, 3500 song HD, USB, I-POD, WMA and DVD-A. Doppler Radar is now part of the package along with the Real time Traffic and Weather. It may be a little overwhelming for some with the center stack, but don't forget, you can control EVERYTHING with voice commands, that do work mind you. Adjustable LED lighting in the cabin with some of the clearest gauges to see at night (see Audi). This car drives (for everyday people) as good as anything out there right now.

BMWs on the other hand have always surprised me with the minimalist approach to their interiors. They are just not that impressive for something in that price range. I won't even mention I-drive. And before you go ripping me on BMWs, they really do set the standard for styling direction (no one can deny that). They make some of the best " I need to see that car" designs on the road. But don't call my car CRAP if you have no idea what you are talking about.

V-10 NSX

sorry for the longwinded post just a slow day in cars right now

The marketplace is the final arbiter. If the TL was truly a better car, people would pay more for it than the BMW, not less. Alas, that is not the case. Thus, to the people who matter (the buyers and the dealers and the manufacturers), the TL is vastly inferior to the BMW despite journalists saying otherwise.

I agree for the most part, but Acura as a brand is what? 20, 25 years old - it's hard to get that type of brand awareness and luxury/performance recognition from the get go, especially when Acura was always a near-luxury make (think Saab/Volvo). Now they want to be Tier 1 and finally got the heads out of the sand...remember, the Tier 1 products are still 18-24 months away...lets see what happens then. For now, Acura is saddled with ugly design and a FWD or AWD (albeit technically superior to anything out there, still based on a FWD chassis), yet it's still competing and in some cases doing well against the competition.

How is the TL "vastly" inferior to the BMW? You definitely get more for the money with the Ac than with the 3, and the BMW has a very boring interior, that has no room at all. I see that Audi decided to give people more room, maybe the next 3 will grow too and actually give people something more than an engine and "magic feel" for those extra thousands of $.

The TL is too ugly for words, it looks like an extra on the set of the Transformers. Stats are relatively meaningless when you have a car that ugly. I'll take a 335 over the TL 6 days a week and twice on Sunday.

Well he's talking about how the Acura is cheaper.. What would happen if Acura decided to price them similarly to the BMWs?!

AMAZINGBUMMER

I am deeply sadden by your multiple postings and I can not fathom that anybody could keep posting such blatantly ignorant comments.
I can see only a few possibilities to such postings;
1- you are between the age of 12 and 16 years old and you know absolutely nothing about cars.
2- you are playing the devil advocate and purposely post the most radical comments you can come up with in order to create flame wars and outrage.
3- you really believe in BMW superiority and in this case I am really sorry for you, because such ignorance and arrogance are beyond any comprehension.
4- you might suffer from some brain damage or genetic disorder and therefore I am, and we all will be sorry for you and forgive your constantly ridiculous comments.

I wish you well, I apologize if you had to refer to the dictionary while reading my comment, as I noticed quite often that grammar and vocabulary were not your forte.

I do respect BMW as a brand and as a product, they do seem to have lost their edge and it is clear that "accounting" and "marketing" have a lot to say in how the product is being built.
Life is about making the right compromises, and if you are knowledgeable, educated and with the means, which vehicle is going to fit those compromises is for each their own. But to pompously push your favorite brand like you do is a little to much for this site sometimes.

If it is a game to you, there is something disturbing to how you envision your social interaction with other through the internet.
Maybe therapy is something you might consider.

If you have half of an understanding of what you are doing when you post a comment and read the answers to it, you should have had your laugh a long time ago and give it a rest.

So no matter who you are, and what are your purposes, please get a life, get a grip, get a BMW, get a hobby, put please for the sake of this website, even if you are an agent in disguise, STOP, before all the real cars enthusiasts and connoisseur leave for good.

Be well.

amazinbimmer,
I too love BMW's but you turn people off to the brand by the way you degrade others on this site.

If, as you claim, you do have a high level of education and own all of the car's you have mentioned, one would think that you would not stoop to such low levels as you demonstrate by your comments.

You have a superiority complex that is often demonstrated by people who have an extremely low level of self esteem.