GM Says It May Not See 2009 If Federal Aid Is Delayed

bye bye GM !!

You know what is wrong and why AMERICA IS IN Touble?? It is because of dumb people like you that do not even attemp to support your own Country's compnany's. Who the hell do you think you all are. You sure as hell are not fellow American's to me. You should be ashamed of yourselfs. I know Canandian's that supports our countrys company's. You make me sick!!!!!!!!!

The Goverment has to bail them out or our country will lose 2+ MILLION jobs the big three did not survive. Do you know how this would impact our country's economy?, if this the big three went out of business the other auto makers in other country's would soon fail as well because since stupid un loyal Americans that buy their JUNK wont have the money to buy. Crazy America is the only place in the World Lexus is even sold, every other place in the world there is not a Lexus name plate it is just Toyoto.
So are you really sure you want the big three to go under???

WAKE UP!!! THIS COUNTRY IS IN TROUBLE!! Which as you if you watch the news since our country has been in trouble it as affected the Worlds economy has well.

And has for Bush the housing market and banking problems where not caused by him, it was all the liberals at Freddie and Fannie Mae that made this happen. Lenders where giving loans like money was water, then they tighten up so much that they have made it so diffecult to get a loan for Homes, to cars to small business loans. Infact even since the Goverment gave them the 700 Billion they still have not losened up and the banks are hording the money and some of these bigger banks are buying other banks with the money that is our tax money. The white House has come out many times telling the Banks losen up we did not give the money to have the banks keep under lock and key.

And as for the UAW the big Three need to break them since the UAW is killing the big three.

The UAW needs to be GONE!!!! and GM, Ford, And Chrysler would be profitable again.

SO WAKE UP!! IF YOU DON'T MEXICO WILL BE THE PLACE TO LIVE AND AMERICAN'S WILL BE FIGHTING TO GET INTO THEIR COUNTRY VS THEM TRYING TO GET INTO OURS!!!!!!!!

I own have owned many GM Autos and not one of them over the last 20 years of owning GM have I ever had a piece of garbage until I owned a BMW 325 and then traded the 325 for a bmw 525, because of the fact that I had that car in the shop every 3 months, same garbage the 525 was in the shop every 4 months. Both of them Garbage. I now own a Cadillac again because I have owned many Cadillacs and none of them have had any problems. I also drive about 30,000 miles a year so I need a reliable car My 08 CTS has 16,000 miles on it and it has had one oil change. When I owned the BMW's I had to trade them by the time they hit 21,000 miles on them since they where in the shop all of the time. Talk about Garbage.

Garbage Motors is doomed

The question is should tax dollars , that originate from us, be thrown at corporations that make horrible business decisions over and over again? When should they be allowed to fold?

lets just speed up the withdrawl from Iraq by 6 months and put all that money towards OUR industry.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Time to put it up for sale! It might be a good thing for Nissan or Tata or someone to come in and purchase one of the big 3. Then they could produce more cars here and ship it other places.

Nail in the coffin.

DO IT!

Please, don't turn us into fascists!

Hyundai,

I hesitate in saying this mostly because I like Hyundai a lot... but maybe you should look into the Korean government and what they did for THEIR automotive industry.

Automobile Industry Promotion Policy of 1962

I don't drive a Hyundai and I never will, THANKS.

This is funny LOL.

Hyundai

I guess you'll have to explain to every person that replies to you :P

Probably, huh?

Geez, what a curse this name is!

It's not his real name LOL.

It's the most controversal name on autospies!

AMiodynski, bimmerfan25, and all the rest of you who hate the US auto industry,

SHAME ON YOU ALL. Admit it, you guys would be thrilled if GM or any other domestic crashed and burned. Nothing to do with their products, their jobs they provide, the technology they develop, their strategic importance to America.... you just don't like the idea of US automotive companies. You people make me sick. I know, you're all going to respond with "well they make inferior products, worse fuel economy, bad styling, poor business practices", and most of the arguments are either outright B.S. or hold little validity in the current domestic industry.

Speaking of GM specifically, yes, GM made TONS of crap for way too long... a damn shame when you think about it. What's even more shameful, is now that GM has a great lineup (and its only getting better in the coming years), Americans still refuse to buy.

We, as americans, have spent over a trillion on Iraq, hundreds of billions for the greedy criminals on wall st., hundreds of billions for oil because our politicians let speculators run wild.... and we are so damn hesitant to help our OWN, AMERICAN companies. Not only are they just companies, but they provide america with collateral with their industrial might.

Those who hate the domestic auto industry should sit back, and seriously think about what they are saying. Do you all really want GM/Ford to collapse (Chrysler.... well we will see what happens to Chrysler)? You think the economy is bad now... you wait until millions more people are out of work from the trickle down from the auto industry. Wait for the crime wave that will ensue from poor, destitute people with no hope.

Shame on everyone who WANTS the domestic industry to fail. Seriously, how can any American WANT the industry to fail? How can any, TRUE american, irrespective of what they drive, what race they are, what religion they are, want the industry to fail.

God forbid we are involved in a major war like WWII. Who is going to build everything? The smug, spoiled rich kids who drive around in their foreign cars with a grin of smug on their faces? The wall st. traders who would leave the country as soon as any sign of trouble comes their way?

Look, Im all about automotive enthuiasts buying whatever cars their want... hands down. Personally, if I had the money, itd be a CTS or a G37. Here's the catch though, since I am only in the market for a boring, everyday transportation appliance, I am going to buy a domestic like a Malibu or a G8.

Once again, shame on all of you who wish harm to the domestic auto industry. May you and your families one day experience unbearable hardship because some snooty, smug morons doubted you and never gave you a fair chance. If the inudstry does fail, may you and yours be the ones at the front lines of the next great war... with no tanks, planes or trucks.

For you, Bimmerfan25, if BMW was faltering, not because of bad p

For you, Bimmerfan25, if BMW was faltering, not because of bad products, etc.. but for the same things GM/Ford is faltering, you wouldn't want the German government to help? I would... BMW is a strategic asset to Germany, and I know the German gov would do the same.

neutral..you could not have said it better. Those of you wishing for the domestics to fail need to do research about how many people and jobs are impacted directly and indirectly by a collapse of the U.S.auto industry. It is not just Detroit, and it is not just direct auto employees who will suffer. Hell, even Toyota publicly acknowledges (and I am NO Toyota fan) that the worst thing that could happen to them is the demise of GM..think of what that would do to the cost structure of the suppliers that they all rely on. So free market..sure that is how it should be...but this issue is way too big.

Pure free markets are damn dangerous. We've just seen what under-regulation does with the oil crisis and the credit crunch.

If anyone wants to see pure capitalism at work.. check out Russia from 1990-2004ish. Absolute capitalism, a superpower turned into a nation of beggars, rule by gangsters and overall instability.

Like all things in life, there is a balance between socialism, capitalism, etc that is the best. Personally, I lean towards capitalism with control over elements that could ruin the overall good of the nation (ie control oil speculation).

bimmerfan25,

as much as I hate most of what you say... I can't agree more with your above comment.

Way too much "religion" (somehow the "religious" people only apply that whole "thou shalt not kill/steal" thing when it's convenient), massive (stupid) fear of ANYTHING "socialist".

Honestly.. I have to ask... do you really dislike GM's new product line? Im not talking about stuff from the 1970's - 2003... im talking right now, today. Comparing apples to apples.... a Camry vs a Maliby, a Sequoia vs a Tahoe...

And for the record.. i have an '02 Grand Am (what can I say... winter beater) and an '86 MB 560SL.

Neutral, when you produce junk for decades, you can't really blame consumers for being slow to come around when you finally start producing less junky products. The consumer doesn't "owe" them their business, they need to earn it. Decades of misjudging the market and crap products have taken their toll, and that's not the consumer's fault.

Anyway, I think the problem most people have with this situation is the same as the problem they have with the government sinking $700B into Wall Street, and that's the simple fact that the companies themselves did this. They screwed up. Over and over. For a long, long, LONG time. Their executives are making enough money to fund a small country (the head of GM, for example, personally makes $40k EVERY... DAMN... DAY), meanwhile they're bankrupting their health care and pension accounts and running themselves into the ground with poor decisions and management. And now that that process of running their companies into the ground is nearing completion, they're asking for handouts that we taxpayers have to foot the bill for, all while keeping the same management that screwed up in the first place. What guarantee is there that this isn't just going to happen all over again? What guarantee is there they're not going to misjudge the market again for the next two decades? Zero and zero. And by the way, GM has about $90B more liabilities than assets. That is staggering, and a handout from the government isn't going to fix that.

I personally am not advocating "don't buy American", and I don't blame the blue collar employees of the companies. But I don't see why my tax dollars should go towards applying bandaids to what amounts to gaping chest wounds. I didn't like $700B going towards Wall Street to fix the screwups those millionaires made, and I don't like $100B or whatever the total is going to end up being going towards keeping poorly run automotive companies in business. There are better uses for that money than trying to keep insolvent, horribly run companies afloat for an extra year so their executives can make another hundred million or two.

I'm sure nobody wants to see hundreds of thousands of people lose their jobs. If those people in the industry do lose their jobs, the knock-on effect will end up costing the taxpayers more than a bailout of GM, and Michigan might as well file for bankruptcy right now. However, GM need to be made accountable for producing cars that nobody wants to buy. A bailout of GM shouldn't be throwing more taxpayer money at a dinosaur, but helping to get them to be innovators and leaders again, for example providing massive funding for alternative energy technology so that GM (and Ford or Chrysler) could become the world leader in that area. Giving them billions of dollars to build more Tahoe's that nobody wants just makes no sense and will only delay the inevitable.

In response to the Wall St. comments, I think you might have misundertsood why that was necessary. I agree the senior Wall St. guys made too much money, but the $700b bailout of Wall St. was necessary to avoid financial armageddon, and I'm not exaggerating. The taxpayers will get back that $700b over the next few years, but they won't see any benefit from throwing cash at GM unless GM is forced to completly overhaul the way they do business.

" A bailout of GM shouldn't be throwing more taxpayer money at a dinosaur, but helping to get them to be innovators and leaders again, for example providing massive funding for alternative energy technology so that GM (and Ford or Chrysler) could become the world leader in that area. Giving them billions of dollars to build more Tahoe's that nobody wants just makes no sense and will only delay the inevitable."

Exactly.

JRob, I also agree with you... well said.

Neutral. Thank you for your comments. I thought I was a endangered species, since I SUPPORT MY Countries company's and am ashamed of these other people that wish the big three would be gone. I mean what the He*l, what is wrong with people. Support America. Especially since they are building a Great Car.

Thank you.

JRob, very well said. I totally agree with you.

I believe GM can make excellent cars, but they've unfortunately been designing and manufacturing poor products for a while, and that has an effect on brand image. It takes a long time and a significant amount of effort to build a brand, and a second to ruin it. I realize the UAW has had a lot of impact on this, and that's a very unfortunate limiting factor that's faced US automakers. They have the resources, technology, experience, and skills to build great cars (as seen with the newer models...). Management decisions are key as well, because it'll take time to turn customers around. From now until then, GM, Ford, Chrysler will have to be making great decisions and creating great products.

Here's the deal guys...

GM has cut tens of billions of dollars in costs over the past few years. In 2005, we were having this same discussion..."nails in the coffin" etc etc etc. THen GM turned around and started making money.. then we got hit by the oil crisis (because of politicians de-regulating oil markets). 3rd quarter last year, GM broke even. Now, with the additional tens of billions in cost cutting GM has done, if the market turned around tomorrow, GM would be banking money like it should be, and if import-buyers gave a SERIOUS look at domestics, GM & Ford would be rolling in cash.

Yes detroit has a large burden of responsibility...from the past...

But now the finger needs to be pointed at Washington politicians who've been bought with oil money and John Doe for being too lazy / snooty to stop and think about the damage he causes by buying foreign appliances.

I actually am not a hater for Domestics. I currently own a 2003 Explorer V8 Limtied Centenial Edition, and a 1991 Mustang LX 5.0. I've had several other Ford products, but this last round of cheap plastic is just too much for me to want to see and buy.

As far as wanting to see them crash and burn, that's not true. What I would like is to see the bastards that work for these companies that are making millions while ruining these companies reach into their own pocket's istead of ours !! I don't want my tax money to pay for any other companies mistakes. Don't care if they are a bank, auto maker or whatever they are. If I make a mistake, and spend more than I make, who's there to help me???

GM : General Malfunction

Sorry if I came off harsh, but it sickens me to see people hate on the domestics just because it's trendy and daddy bought them an Acura or something.

As for your plastic complaints... I cannot argue you at all...

As for the people who ruined these companies... theres so many over the decades... just overall pig-headed stupidity on behalf of the Big3 is very much a reason why they are where they are. Thing is... now with so many GOOD products coming from GM & Ford (even though I don't really like Ford), theres no reason to buy Japanese appliances.

As for GM, i have to respectfully disagree.... We'll see what happens when the new Buick lineup and the Chevy Cruze comes out. What pisses me off about GM is some stupid thick-headedness about minor things like navigation systems, etc.

"Thing is... now with so many GOOD products coming from GM & Ford (even though I don't really like Ford), theres no reason to buy Japanese appliances."

That's not really true. For every token Malibu that GM introduces, they're still keeping an Impala in the lineup. Until GM and Ford offer 100% competitive products across the line (which hasn't happened yet), there will always be a reason to buy foreign cars.

In regards to the wall street bail out that needed to happen just like GM needs it. Look we did it for Chrysler one time and they made it and pd the money back. If idoits out there like you would look at the American autos and open your Fu**i** eyes you would see that they are building a Great car.

And as for the Excutives running GM into the ground with bad decision well you are WRONG AGAIN. they have been so affected by the Damn Unions The UAW NEEDS TO GO AWAY!!!!!!!!! IT IS CRAZY TO SEE THEM MAKE MONEY AND NOT THE COMPANY'S MAKE MONEY.

GET RID OF THE UNIONS THE UAW AND GM, FORD AND CHRYSLER WILL BE PROFITABLE, like the imports.

The UAW as scrued the Big THREE.

and yes I do aggree that the wall steet CEO's taking huge bonuses when their company is failing is WRONG, I always thought bonuses where pd for production and when a company is profitable. Where is the incentives for making the company profitable when they have these huge salaries and bonuses.

I also always thought that Campian and charity money was given when a company had money. It Wrong when Freddie Mac gave Oboma's campain $ 75, Million before they asked for the Goverment to bail them out, because the head of Freddie is a Liberal Democrate.
It is fine to give when you have it to give.

GM makes a Great Car and would be a devastating blow to this country's economy and if the do not bail them out we could very easily hit a depression. So if you like your life style you may want to support American Auto's.......

Why all the hating on GM here ?

We all know they got problems, but it is a matter of national pride if a company like GM goes under and we need to understand the ramifications of that and consider all the people working for them without a job.

We Americans need to take pride in our country. I'm not saying buy American because that doesn't mean anything in auto industry, but we cannot cheer the downfall of an iconic American company like GM or Ford.

Bail them out, but make reforms like firing all the execs and unions bosses.

ahhhhhhh, u said it the best!

The only way that it would make sense for the taxpayers to inject more money in these companies is for the government to appoint a 3rd party to oversee operations.

There are wayyyy to many executives making ridiculous bonuses while the companies are in such financial troubles. Bonuses are paid on performance, how do you think the japanese or other lucrative companies work? By rewarding profits and efficiency rather than laziness and cheapness.

Radical changes and difficult decisions need to be made for these companies to even think about possibly surviving, if not, then the taxpayers are just delaying the inevitable and pouring billions into expensive and inefficient businesses that represent an awful investment. That same money could be used (for example) to build Toyota, Hyundai, BMW, Lexus factories in the US and keep the jobs and suppliers here.

Reward forward thinking and progress, that's how America was built, now it seems it has lost it's way....

As far as all the companies building outside the US, we can thank Clinton for that when he opened the flood gates with NATO.

Let's not get started with Clinton and NATO... that "messiah" clinton is the one who in Dec 2008 signed the legislation to de-regulate oil speculation.

Clinton's solution to everything: Villify and kill serbs.

Either way, I don't know if Clinton is to blame for the economic situation we're in. Gotta give credit where credit is due... I didn't agree with quite the number of his economic decisions, but overall they were pretty sound.... Especially when you compare it to the B.S. we (and the world) has had to endure for 8 yrs.

Dec 2000 that is.. sorry for the typo

So the solution is isolationism?

That worked real good just before World War II.

Part of maintaining peace and stability is forming releationships. Countries do this with open trade.

If it's that bad, then they should just file for chapter 11.

So much easier said than done, but I wish that could happen.

No, what is good for GM is good for America. That being said, the problem is not GM the problem is UAW. In the glory days of Unions 26% of US manufacture companies had Unions, now is to 6-8% and still decreasing. Triumph of the “evil doer’s of big business” and the government participant in this demise by facilitating outsourcing. Outsourcing jobs and resources to countries were disposables workers/slaves are available and who are responsible for their own healthcare. Health care and union benefits are bottomless pits. That why all other car companies who make cars in the USA have made sure that the UAW union have not taken hold on them. GM should be help, not Iraq, Iraq is raking in more money from oil exports than it is spending, amassing a projected four-year budget surplus of up to $80 billion, US has put about $48 billion toward reconstruction since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, about $23 billion of that was spent on the oil and electricity industries, water systems and security. Military operating cost alone is 4.5 billion per month. Long term care including health care to military veterans 2 trillion.

If GM need $25B to just take care of UAW healthcare then YES the Union did kill them.

The cost of providing health care adds from $1,100 to $1,500 to the cost of each of the 4.65 million vehicles GM sold last year, according to various calculations. GM spend at least $5.6 billion on health care in 2005, more than it spent on advertising in 2004. Now imaging that to 2008 figures. The big 3 are struggling with rising health care costs is hardly surprising. Health care is not the only spenditure that GM bleeds from. UAW have rich benefits, had no overtime limits but that has changed recently, an older workforce and a mounting number of retirees.

It's funny that it's required to get into the greatest schools is high academic credits. And the goal is to achieve the highest educated success rate in order to become accepted as great leader/contributor wether its' a major corporate company or your own business. But in the case of the Big Domestic 3, it seems all that academic profession as individuals that controls the 3 giants, all of a sudden becoming a "FAILURE" is all OKAY?!?!???...simply because they think the government is supposed to bail out the white collar failures??? When they were given enough time to simply realize that being greedy and ignorant will not get them far...for all of you that disagreed that Bobby Boy "No Clue-Clutz" Lutz all all other idiot domestic execs were genius' for what they have done past, present, and forget the futureat this point!...well when you are part of the equation of failure, it does not give them much credit at all...If they fall, or when they fall they should fall and learn the hard way...White Collar Domestic fools, you had enough time to change your ways and you choose "NOT" to make a difference for the better...It's sad the Big 3 has become like a peddler on the streets asking "A Dollar"(or in this case billions of hard earned tax-payer's $$$) to get buy for a coffee...the simple truth...99% percent of the time...we say "Sorry buddy I have no change"...as we keep moving forward....Good luck!!! You Big 3 domestic fools will need it!!!...LMAO!!!

Problem is, selling their brands isn't like Ford selling Jag/Landrover/Aston.

GM's brands here in the US are completely integrated with one another. Selling Hummer would be stupid.... i mean... GM would still have to (under some sort of agreement) engineer everything, test everything, do everything for the vehicles, just someone else would foot the bill.

Truth be told.. the most needless GM brand is GMC. The Chevy label offers everything that GMC does... sometimes I think it's just the lawsuits that prevents GM from shutting down brands. GM is still fighting lawsuits from the shutdown of Oldsmobile.

Sailor,

You call it a black hole... but think about it. You give the auto industry a LOAN (www.dictionary.com could help you understand what "loan" means) to keep your massive, strategically important industry from falling.

GM, ford and Chrsyler have made MASSIVE efforts to improve their products, fuel economy, reliability, etc etc etc. It's just that they keep getting hit with more curve balls from Oil to the economy to stupid snooty californians who think it's cute and trendy to buy Japanese.

You think it's bad that taxpayers have to give a LOAN to the auto industry to keep it from sinking? Try loosing millions of jobs, every bit of heavy industry, hundreds of billions of our GDP lost, etc etc etc. You want pissed off taxpayers!?!?! Try telling Joe Q. Public that his taxes just doubled because the government can't pay for anything because theres a MASSIVE hole in the tax base. Try telling the taxpayers that not only are we addicted to foreign oil, we're completely addicted to foreign cars. Try telling every city/county/state/government agency, contractor, construction worker, etc that they don't have the tools to do their jobs (trucks) because short-sighted greedy people don't want to support their own country's Iconic auto industry.

Just like the financial inudstry bailout... no one likes the idea of a bailout... but the alternative would be catastrophic.

If I'm bailing out GM with my tax money then I demand a free car from them.

I have an idea,

I say if you buy a GM/Ford/Chrysler (or any sister brands) and you dont have to pay your equivalent share of the federal loan.

Hey we are bailing out the banks they need to pay down our mortgages since we have bailed them out!!!

It is not a bailout is a “loan”. Still mayor downsize of GM will be required implying still jobs lost and factories closed.
Chrysler received a government loan in 1980, by 1983, seven years earlier than the scheduled deadline, Chrysler had paid back its loan with the aid of the guarantees from the U.S. government. The corporation bought back the 14.4 million stock warrants. A security entitling the holder to buy a proportionate amount of stock at some specified future date at a specified price, usually one higher than current market. This "warrant" is then traded as a security, the price of which reflects the value of the underlying stock. Warrants are usually issued as a "sweetener" bundled with another class of security to enhance the marketability of the latter. Warrants are like call options, but with much longer time spans sometimes years given to the government in exchange for the loan guarantee.
Because Chrysler's finances had improved and its stock had bounced back it reported $1.7 billion in profits for the second quarter of 1984 the government netted a profit of more than $660 million from its “bailout” investment.

i would like to buy a gm auto, but i have a problem with trucks like my father-in-laws 95 chevy truck that had to have a complete new motor at less than 50k miles. the man NEVER abused it and the dealer did all maint on it including oil changes. the truck has less than 90k on it now and the steering wheel has had to be replaced,headliner has fallen down, the paint started peeling after 3 years and it gets 13 mpg. I have owned a honda (built in the us) and a nissan (built in the us) and NEVER had any problems with either. When GM starts building a fuel efficient car i might consider them. my 2 cars THAT I NOW OWN ave 40 mpg. honda 34, and toyota 46. can ANY 2 GM cars do that? why cant the GM engineers come out with a car than can get 40 mpg