UAW Says It Will Rather Tax Payers Foot The Bill Than Accept Cuts To Keep Detroit Afloat

They'll reap what they sow.

UWA is the cancer in the big three and the only way to get rid of it is to let it die.

Incredible lack of vision on the part of the UAW. They seem to be determined to price themselves into permanent unemployment.

+1...and they expect the rest of America to sympathize with them with that kind of attitude.

This is the very reason the Big Three should not get a bail out. By allowing them to go into bankrupcy, they will be able to break the back of the union and actually have a flexible work force.

I thought we didn't negotiate with terrorists?

Now every month, we have another group of assclowns telling us to either give them BILLIONS "or ELSE".

I mean seriously, what'd you expect them to say? They're still looking out for their own butts.

PlanB, what position would you rather be in?

Holding your ground on health care and salaries and then having no job or taking a pay cut and paying more for your OWN healthcare but still being employeed?

They want taxpayers to make the sacrifice and they're not will to put in any effort?

I'll continue to buy Japanese & German thanks.

Now I really want them to fail. This way the UAW can eat it and fend for themselves instead of earning post work wages of $71 per hour. Executives dont even make that much.

Whelan stated "This way the UAW can eat it and fend for themselves instead of earning post work wages of $71 per hour. Executives dont even make that much."

Not sure where you've been finding your 'executives' but many 'Director'-level staff in various commercial enterprises make over the $150K range ($71/HR annualized is ~ $145K). Sr. Directors and VPs will often make multiples of that figure.

The title was changed to summarize the stance of the UAW in this case. I would have to say in this case it is far more accurate than the original.

The UAW is trying strong arm tactics to strike fear into the public to approve the bailout. If the UAW was more reasonable 10 years ago they never would have never gotten themselves in this situation in the first place.

In this case they are one of the biggest reasons why the Detroit three are hurting. I can think of no other industry where the Union has instilled such a sense of entitlement than the auto industry.

GO AWAY. Unions are the single biggest detriment to our economy today- one of the largest reasons the big 3 are in this mess.

Lack of management backbone didn't hurt. But seeking white collar wages and world class benefits for blue collar work is a major culprit.

Where else could you go with a GED and earn $80K a year in the 80's? It simply didn't happen outside the UAW world. They thought they were raising the standards of the workforce in the free world. But instead they simply created a non sustainable environment for blue collar workers that bankrupted the companies they worked for.

Yes these people deserve a good life, but the problem is that the work performed did not justify the lifestyle it created.

We don't hate you, friend. You just have to downsize like the rest of us.

Live smaller. Live on less.

Move to new state, one that doesn't TAX YOU into a hole like Socialist Michigan does.

REDUCE. Reuse. Simplify. Eat healthier and chew less tobacco so your health insurance isn't unaffordable.

CHANGE you own life, instead of asking for handouts from your neighbors.

Union were put into place (at least in the US) when labor laws were not as strict.

I honestly believe back then they had a place in giving the worker a voice and some clout. However since then a multitude of regulations and EEOC laws and that simple fact that an individual can now sue successfully if treated wrongly. So the situation is much more labor centric.

So as we see the foundation for the UAW has changed but the organization failed to move with the times.

Look at the goals for an example: Guarantee jobs, benefits, and wages. Maybe they should have been help build a world class industry that produces leading edge technology and high quality products.

By doing so and holding management accountable to sustainability rather than share holders profits, they would have insured the health of the industry they represent.

Instead they have come to represent an attitude of "where is MY money?"

UAW will soon stand for Unemployed Auto Workers

Totally Agree. UNEMPLOYED!!!!!!!!!!! UAW WAKE UP TO REALITY! YOU ARE HOPELESS!

Corporate America has become a Rouge Nation.

There are huge numbers of people who go to work every day and work without healthcare, and many Americans who have lost their job. Throwing money at these companies so workers can have what many other Americans don’t have is foolishness.

On the other hand Corporate America has Taxpayers and ordinary working people by the B*LLs. The oil companies took the profits they wanted, and broke the backs of struggling Americans, taking what little people had left, plunging them further into a hole, thus taking the economy with them. Now that the Car Companies want their profit, and will forcibly take it from the American People whether we like it or not.

Bailouts are not the answer, and cutting production is also not the answer, as less product leads to higher prices to meet demand. These car companies are pink-slipping workers because they can’t make the profit per unit they want, so they cut production to rig Supply vs Demand back in their favor, leading to cars becoming too expensive for people to afford again like $40 and $50K SUVs of the 90s.

The big 3 have a obligation to yes, produce better cars, but also at increased levels to drive prices down to an affordable level so more people can buy them.

"These car companies are pink-slipping workers because they can’t make the profit per unit they want, so they cut production to rig Supply vs Demand back in their favor, leading to cars becoming too expensive for people to afford again like $40 and $50K SUVs of the 90s."

No one is rigging the supply. The auto industry is pretty cutthroat. If one company prices their car too high, someone else will undercut it. If you want to loose market share, setting too high a price is a great way to do it.

The reason that SUV and high end truck prices got so high was because people were willing to pay those prices. Thats it. They were NOT too expensive for the people that they were targeted for.

Keep in mind it isn't a right to own a giant fully featured SUV.

"The oil companies took profits".


OH
MY
GOD!!!

Somebody call the police!

Someone correct me. I read somewhere that the typical autoworker for GM gets paid $75/hour, while the same autoworker at Toyota gets paid $50 (these are rough values). How does the UAW justify such a disparity? Is the GM autoworker getting paid for his/her work AND the legacy benefits of previous GM autoworkers, while the Toyota doesn’t have the same legacy costs?

If so, then a drastic GM-UAW restructured contract will affect many millions of retirees. Obama may still restructure the auto industry and use this situation to justify socialized healthcare to cover the affected people (i.e., the retirees).

I can see it now – “GM” will stand for “Government Motors” in the near future.

I believe the last contract in 2007 equated to around an average of $40 an hour. However the benefits packages rival those of white collar executives. Yes they took a big pay cut, however they also were overpaid.

This is similar to the technology boom where a desktop service geek was paid $50 an hour in the heyday and now can barely get $12 and hour.

There is nothing wrong with the UAW provided their benefits and salary are the excact same as an auto worker from Honda,Toyota,Hyundai,Nissan and any other foreign auto maker with a factory in the US.Ford,GM,and Chrysler must must must be on an egual footing with everyone else.If the UAW cannot accept this then they should not exist.This is one huge reason that the American 3 are unable to build a small car at a profit.This is also one reason why the products for the American 3 have not been right for the market.Example-Why isn't a Chevy Cobalt the equal of a Honda Civic. Answer-Chevy would have to charge 20% more then a Civic to bring the Cobalt up to Civic quality(especially in the interior). But it goes deeper then that. For yrs now because of the quality discrepency the American 3 have been forced to either have cars sit on their lot or offer huge discounts at a loss per vehicle to get them off dealer lots.It all goes back to the costs in building a car and that get traced back to the UAW. In summary the UAW has been nothing less then a "incurable Cancer" to the American 3 automakers. An operation is in order.

It's pretty much reading greedy to me plain and simple. I went to college for 4 years, did all my studies, have a good job now that pays not even up to the 60k some of these people get entry level for doing GED required work.

I have more respect for those in trade businesses like HVAC or plumbing who went to school for a time and got licensed to do their work. But yet the pay these people get is bordering insane.

So if people in Detroit are getting paid so high for these jobs, why is Detroit a dying city? You would think people would have the money to get nice homes and the like. At least the outskirts would be nice right? I look at Detroit as I do Pittsburgh. Not to offend anyone in these cities, but they seem to be dying as they were once the big havens in the 80's and early 90's.

I'm not saying the retirees and workers dont deserve wages and healthcare. But at what cost? I don't see why my paycheck should go to help these people so much if they fail. They should have stayed in school and gotten different jobs. This is America, you can make whatever you want out of yourself and anyone who says otherwise is either lazy, cheap, or just foolish.

Back on topic. To Janizary, you are assuming that an executive is working 40 hours a week 52 weeks a year. I can guarantee you that an executive person puts in well over the standard 40 a week and is not a 9-5 person. Therefore the salary would be in the $200-250k range. But I am not talking about the CEO of GE or Apple. I am talking about the average executive for a company, a guy like the one who runs my office in CT for my international company. He makes probably that much a year.

Me out of college starts at $42k a year, a 9-5 job would run me $20-$25 an hour (not counting health and 401k and taxes taken out). These guys walk into the building, get trained and put on a line and make 3-4 times what I do right off the belt, no college degree. And they sit and get greedy for more, and are guaranteed 95% salary if they are laid off. I wish I had that guarantee that I was going to get 95% of my salary if I was let go. Sadly I would have to walk to the unemployment labor office, apply for it, and then get an adjusted mean paycheck.

So with these people making sooooo much an hour. They can easily afford their own personal insurance without the help of the company. Even if they had to shell out say a max of $500 a month for decent coverage out of pocket. These guys make almost $3,000 a week!!! $500 is pocket cash at that wage. And if they are spending it on nonsense, then serves them right for not budgeting. And if they buy too many cars or too big of a house, serves them right again for trying to live beyond their means.

I am not chastizing anyone working for an auto company, but the auto union as a whole is corrupt and full of greed no matter how you look at it. Nobody is caring for the company they work for because they are protected with this big cush

cushy UAW. So they don't seem so worried right now about it failing because to them "hey, the rest of the US will foot the bill." Well if that's the attitude they have, then screw them. They can bite me and deserve to fail.

hey 1UAW...you have been listening too long to the propaganda of your union leadership too long....and now it may cost you!! they are politicians too and dont think for a minute that they have your well being in mind.
how many industries do we know of that have retirees living a lavish life???? anyone??? does this make sense to anyone here???? i hate to wish unemployment for anyone in these time but this union may deserve what they have coming to them.
time to write to our politicians again.

Doctors and Nurses are imported so why not cars, greater than 60 % of doctors and nurses in USA are “imported” from other countries; contrary to France were 93% of French doctors graduated from a France medical school. If we are not spending the money to provide the USA with superior doctors or nurses trained here in the USA why spend it on mediocre cars.

The reason why there are many foreign medical graduates is because few people in the US want to sacrifice 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, AND 3-6 years of residency/fellowship only to be in debt $100k on average when all is done. With a diminishing pool of physicians and an ever expanding AND aging US population the need for physicians expands across borders to fulfill the demand. If you had only US doctors it would take you 4 weeks to see a doctor and 6 months to get a coronary bypass surgery. Sounds like the Canadian health care system (nationalized).
More students would rather go to law school or business school.

hensta:
There are plenty of interested medical school applicants in USA, your argument is not valid, there are 130 medical schools and that number decreasing for the past 50 years, there are 23 osteopathic schools in USA and that number is increasing for the past 50 years. Applicants in both exceed from two fold to ten fold capacity and many Americans go to study abroad in Mexico, Italy, Canada, Spain, and the Caribbean because cannot get in an American school. But yes if money is what you seek, Medical School is not the place to go, go to Law School or Business School. “Outsourcing” Health Care is a pattern that runs for decades in this country. Everybody would agree that Health care is more important than cars and the jobs linked to it and nothing has been done to change it for the past 50 years. If we are not spending the money to provide the USA with doctors or nurses trained here in the USA (which would definitely cost less than 25 billion dollars) why spend it on mediocre cars.

Not all union crafts are useless. Unions in some trades actually produce a better product, faster, and with not so much as a fingerprick onfile(forcing them to trash recordables is one of the perks).

However, on a construction site I used to work at, this one union guy got paid almost $50/hr to drive a bus all day long. And it wasn't even a bus; it was a Ford E class van. In one month he racked up nearly 400 hours. That's a monsterous payday!!! And to top it off, he would have gotten another 2 months out of that gig had he not complained when we told him he had to drive a larger commuter van for only about 60hrs a week.

And, you can't just take Low Income Joe and put him on that bus; noooooooo, that'd be too easy. You have to get a waiver for Low Income Joe to be a van driver(if you're lucky enough to get one), the you still pay Low Income Joe his wage, but then you have to pay all of the same fringes you were paying for Lazy Joe Van Driver, to the (you guessed it) UNIONS.

Even more absurd was the fact that these guys could show up only during the overtime hours, and ge paid overtime. They didn't even have to work the first 8 hours of straighttime. Some would show up at 3pm make overtime, then leave and come back that night for more overtime. g*dhelpyou if they work over 8 hours in a day because everything after that is overtime. They could even just come in on Sunday and make doubletime all day long, having not worked the entire week.

Crap like this really makes Unions look bad.

Like the UAW are in any position to negotiate.

UAW, you are worthless crap!!!

This is disgusting how does the UAW have any say? and how dare they suggest that we must pay for their mistakes. i love fords but it isnt our mess its theres

OK I'll throw in for this. What is interesting is that the UAW is literally willing to cut off it's nose to spite it's face. So they are telling us in reality that they would rather stay at current pay rate until the doors close and lose ALL jobs rather than make concessions to extend the possibility of work. Good call. This is not the industrial revolution here Union guys, and while you 'protect' those employees in job banks the reality is when this goes away there will BE NOTHING LEFT FOR YOU. Funny, have a look at Gung Ho, I mean come on art imitates life like 20 years later.

On another note, are there any enthusiasts out there that absolutely can;t stand these relics from the Senate discussing an industry they know nothing about? Greenhouse gases, what about PZEV vehicles that NO ONE cared about. Hybrid? Come on anyone in the know understands that this is a band-aid at best and the real pursuit of alternative technologies includes diesel, fuel cell and full electric vehicles. Toyota has invested heavily in a technology that relies heavily on archaic batteries and when they finally have to ask for help to dispose of all of those dead, non-recyclable batteries the other shoe will certainly drop on the environmental greenies collective heads.

Finally, the domestics are certainly paying for past sins and the notion that they suckled at the profitability of trucks and SUV's is certain; but this is the demand that was driven by the American consumer. Think 90's people, no one bought small cars so why would you invest in that segment? Not smart, and since many ignoramuses think that cars can be developed and brought to market instantly then fine - the domestics were asleep at the wheel. But the darling of the industry Toyota has recently developed a bigger displacement, heavier versions of the Tundra, Sequoia & Land Cruiser in the past 12 months, were they asleep at the wheel as well?

The domestics need to right size for sure and get rid of several 'appendage brands' but this still reflects a significant loss of jobs in both the union and supplier communities. The losses are coming...and they'll come across the board.

Discuss all we want. In the end, Execs were asleep at the wheel, UAW very demanding and does not produce quality because they rely on their contracts and benefits etc. American car buyers don't like to buy American cars and now, Recession. IMO, let the big 3 declare bankruptcy, close plants, sell assets, sell some brand names, remove UAW, hire new workers the old fashioned way or simply automate, merge the big three to become 1 or just 2, limit platform designs to s m l for cars and trucks alike, and hope for the best.

And what are tho older workers getting?
Someone who has worked there for say a decade.

$15 a hour to work the assembly line is stil too much in my opinion. It's not that hard is it? Do you really think you deserve more than that??/ People working at a Costco or Sams work harder. Hell the Indian at Dunkin Donuts at 6am works harder than most UAW workers !!

I understand the fact that if the big three don't get help, it's going to hurt a ton of people that work directly for them, but all all the satalite companies that produce things for them.

I'd say help them, BUT, take away ALL bonuses, put a cap on income for anyone in management, produce cars that people want, not what's cheap to make, and stop the bullshit spending !! No more useless ads, everyone know's the brands... Stop overpricing your cars to show a "discount" too, your shooting yourselves in the foot. If you have to discount a vehicle $6,000, guess what, it's $6,000 too much....

There is a reason the WORKERS at Toyota told the UAW to pound sand, they don't want anything to do with them !!!

1UAW...

Alright, thats enough complaining.

I've had to do many hard jobs in my life for far far less. Lets see...umm how about the USMC. I sure as hell wasn't making $29/hr slogging around in 100 degree heat with 100% humidity and a full pack. Along with that fun I didn't have the option of "walking off the line".

Or how about my job after that...as an Air Traffic Contoller. Yeah that job had no pressure whatsoever (2 incidents and your career is done...dont even need to crash planes, just loss of seperation).

Oh and speaking of Unions we controllers know a thing or two about them ourselves. What everyone above who said they are a big reason for tons of the problems in the industry today...you bet they are correct. NATCAs greed is why controllers salaries dropped about much as yours. They were unsustainable.

The union pushed to have controllers salaries equal those of the pilots they were controlling. And got it. While it was great for us controllers...it was in no way realistic and would end up hurting the american economy (specifically all the tax payers) in the long run.

Pilots have to have a bachelor degrees as well as spend tons of money to get certified along with spending tons of money to bulid hours just to get hired on some regional airline; where it takes them years to make it up to a 6 figure range. Becoming a controller required only a associates degree or specialized training in the military. And virtually no money up front on your part to get certified. Yet in centers and some towers, controllers could make six figures in 3 years without using the 'trade a day'(union approved) system to scam the FAA out of money with "fake overtime".

Now Unions don't get all of the blame, poor regulation and greedy executives can have some too...but they are not the ones in question here. We are talking about the mafia...er...Unions.

So yes, people have to work hard jobs in life, but its their choice what they do. And all those workers getting over paid for working the line, know they were getting overpaid for working the line and should not be surprised or angry when the market finally corrects itself. You have had quite a good time for the past half a century living it up on the automotive manufacturers and every other american car buyers dime; now its time to pay the piper...just like the rest of us.

It's not that hard to push buttons and use robots for the most part.....

I studies Automotive Technology and been to several plants. Most of the time, it's a machine/robot doing all the hard work now. The UAW was crying that the work was "too hard" so they brought in the robots to do the hard stuff, now the UAW is mad about that. UAW= Failure

I guess the UAW "told us" who will be footing their retirees pension and health insurance. UAW ButtHeads!! Their mentally has always been workers first. They think their doing us a favor by supposely re-negotiating their contracts recently. Listen up UAW folks: as far as I'm concerned I wish we could fire all of you like President Reagan did with those air traffic controllers. Then we'd hire some real skilled workers who would enjoy making approximately $42 dollars per hour compared to your almost $76 dollars per hour average (including benefits per unit). I'll stay with my German and Japanese cars I've always bought for the past 30 years. UAW - who needs 'em anyway!

Let them fall. Why should I be forced farther into poverty just so they can have the benefits I can't even afford myself?

Man I don't understand why the UAW gets such a bad rap.

Oh wait. It's an antiquated system run by bullies who are as short-sided as they are self-centered.

Nevermind.