UAW wants limits on carmakers' executive pay

get that spam outa here

De spammed

Wow, that made my day!! Thanks so much!

Sorry champ, what we really need is legislation that busts up the Union so that automakers can get back to the business of building cars effectively. Not the business of keeping old factories running...yep, it is generally better to rebuild than re-tool, but the Union guys really don't go for that making it impossible to be competitive. What I cannot understand is how the UAW thinks that it is still relevant today? I mean come on, non-union workers in foreign manufacturing plants are paid a fair wage and have good working conditions, isn;t that what Unions were initially developed for? The Big 3 certainly need to be right sized, but is the UAW willing to right size or get out of the way to enable change? No chance. Are we really concerned about the executive salaries? That is tiny compared to the overall change that needs to be made.

Right, limit executives pay so you can continue to get $95 an hour to work the assembly line.

I think it is $40 an hour to screw in that bolt.. $90 an hour is if you have to put a nut on the other end as well.

The UAW says lots of funny things.

The CEOs should set the example. Watch the Video
http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=7479

@ 1UAW, you can protect your beloved UAW all you want. The reality is this, everyone needs to cut-back and live lean for awhile. I for one want to see the automotive industry thrive. That said, everyone will need to change their ways. You can keep talking shit and end up on the food line in 6 months or you can encourage the UAW to make sacrifices. Let go of this infantile "no fair" mentality and make the first step towards retaining and rebuilding this industry. The problem with Detroit is that they believe the Big 3s survival plan will come from the top down, when infact, it will flourish from the bottom up.

So, consider taking a pay cut, consider working extra hours with no overtime rate, consider re-negotiating, consider installing a performance based pay scale. Rethink your old ways. Be prepared for some moderate pain. Stop talking and do something.

That UAW guy is such a hipocrit, I agree the execs need a serious pay revamp and the bonuses need to be stopped, but the UAW is a much bigger sore to the Big 3 than the bonuses for the execs. The UAW is a joke and needs to be done away with. That guy can't be serious!

Actually if he indeed is a UAW advocate. He is trying to preserve what he has earned, which is a natural response from anyone.

Maybe the bigger problem is that the Detroit industry in general had built a house of cards based on the preconceived notion that by raising the standards of living for themselves they will do it for everyone.

The problem is the competition failed to maintain the status quo and Detroit started suffering an erosion of the foundation of that belief.

Rather than nip the erosion process and look to the future effects, everyone believed the house of cards would never tumble. Until now.

i do think the executives get paid too much given how they run the companies (into the ground). many large corporation CEOs take a salary of $1 and make their income from their stock options instead. though, i also think that unions are plain evil and get in the way most of the time.

Lets all stop and think here... $90 an hour for union labor...

I know we all do LOTS of research before we post here (sarcasm) but if anyone seriously believes UAW workers are making even half of that... then I have a bridge to sell you in NYC.

at $45 per hour, that would equate to $93,600 / yr / worker. Now, lets assume that a third of that goes to the worker's healthcare/retirement. That means that the UAW worker supposed gets a payment of $62,400 / yr. Now, I know for a fact that in the SUV boom, some Ford workers were making $60,000 / yr, but they were working TONS of overtime hours, and Ford was massively profiting from it.

And for everyone who thinks the Japanese implant factories are better than the big 3's, go take tours of both. Japanese won't hire workers over the age of 30 (age discrimination), run their workers ragged, and have scorned the use of overhead tools that improve build quality repeatability and safety.

Go tour plants and you will see. Im not saying this to be snooty, but I challenge anyone on this site to do so before ranting the popular "unions are the devil" line.

And for the record, I don't make anywhere near $45/hr, and I am a engineer from a Top 10 engineering university.

@ 1UAW, you can protect your beloved UAW all you want. The reality is this, everyone needs to cut-back and live lean for awhile. I for one want to see the automotive industry thrive. That said, everyone will need to change their ways. You can keep talking shit and end up on the food line in 6 months or you can encourage the UAW to make sacrifices. Let go of this infantile "no fair" mentality and make the first step towards retaining and rebuilding this industry. The problem with Detroit is that they believe the Big 3s survival plan will come from the top down, when infact, it will flourish from the bottom up.

So, consider taking a pay cut, consider working extra hours with no overtime rate, consider re-negotiating, consider installing a performance based pay scale. Rethink your old ways. Be prepared for some moderate pain. Stop talking and do something.

Final thought, the taxpayers don't want to support 3 executive dipshits and their C-level yes-men, they want to support the workers. If the workers can't show flexibility, I doubt the taxpayers will either.

I just try to call it for what it really is. It seems to me that people are just jealous of executives' pay (in general, for all big business) and upset that a UAW worker gets good benefits.

If the public really knew what it was talking about, it wouldnt gripe about Big3 CEOs or corporate jets.. it would be griping about the oil industry and its lobbyists, or the financial industry and its $7 trillion dollar "capital injection" and debt guarantees.

However, Im very glad that the Big3 are moving away from company sponsored retirement (as are most big businesses). it is ridiculous for a company to have to pay for an army of retirees... that was the old way of doing things. This day'n'age, theres no guarantees of any company surviving from day to day much less for the next 100 yrs.

The new union agreements are solid. They shift healthcare & retirement costs away from the company... GM alone is slated to save 4-5billion/yr come 2010.

For all of you union-haters out there (and like I said.. im an engineer so I cant join a union and I probably wouldnt... ) but think about the thousands of people that Walmart & Sams club employ and treat like crap (like the poor guy who was trampled to death on black friday). Tell me how its Good for America that we lost so many good jobs to Walmart, and now the only replacement jobs are bottom feeding, menial, low-paying and degrading jobs!?!?!

How is it that Costco pays its employees well, and its employees are happy? Its not uniona, its responsible company leadership. Costco regularly sits down with its worker's representation and comes to good agreements that makes everyone happy. Since Walmart is a corporation bent only on profits "right now", they dont care about any workers whatsoever. Maybe the UAW should "diversify" its employer base.... to the real corporate raiding monsters in America.

When will America wake up and realize that the cheapest isn't always the best? When will America realize that imports are bad for America... since over the past 5 yrs or so, Detroit has made a 180 degree turnaround (just look at the product offerings)!!

100tnega,

I agree.. we all are going to have to make sacrifices to get through this financial mess that we're all in..

But we need to support AMERICAN companies who actually do something for America... unlike the criminals on wall St. who could give two rats as**s if the crap hits the fan. They'll just take their hundreds of millions and go to the Bahamas...

Congress should give the Big3 a loan of $50 or even $100 billion, and make sure that the liberal know-it-all states (California...cough cough) can't pass any more ridiculous emissions and fuel economy legislation, period. Its stupid over-regulation that hurts automakers so much.

Give the Big3 the money the need, watch the hell out of them to make sure money isnt being wasted (which it really isnt nowadays), re-negotiate deals and make sure that American companies are on top for the future. The R&D is there, the product lineup is there, the powertrains are there... Detroit just needs more cash to get through the BS financial times were in right now.

Also... Maybe its time GM got its hands on Chrysler... As much as I like the Ram... GM holding onto only the minivan and the Jeep line would be good... my opinion only though.. It would be very dangerous move though...

Even if the antiquated union system is not a major factor of the big 3's current woes (hint: it is), we will likely never know.

The UAW's claws are so firmly around the necks of the domestics that they will likely still be there when the doors are locked and the windows are shuttered on all their plants.

Unions might sound like a good idea at first. But when you factor in things like unequal benefits for union members, the lack of choice that comes from being in a union, and the fact that the union makes the company financially unstable, they sure don't sound as nice.

Here's a fact, your ass will be on welfare in less than 6 months if you guys don't change your ways. Another fact is that I'll be that dick driving off without having flipped you a quarter for washing my windshield with your shower squeegee and remnants of your UAW sweater.

Here's the deal, look for the facts later. You can finger point after you're living comfortably again. Radically modify your ways and you will affect change from the bottom up.

Whatthe,

"Can't wait until you and your friends are part of that 6% unemployment number."

What the hell is wrong with you, you sick jerk.

I can't wait until the union workers are unemployed too... then my precious taxdollars (which no one seems to care about unless its about a loan to the Big3) can go to feeding the masses of unemployed.

I hope you and yours go in the unemployment line and go hungry and cold this winter.

Next time think about what you are saying.. theres a lot of cold, hungry, desperate AMERICANS out there who'd like to take you out back and teach you the respect your parents never did.

Portenteous Prick.

Whatthe,

show me the spreadsheets and data. Cmon now... you seem to have all the answers. Show me the exact numbers and how they work out. Do you have the research? Do you have the data? Do you work for the Big 3 or their suppliers?

Put your money where you mouth is. You talk about meaningless dribel? How about you and your personal attack on UAW1!?!

Get a grip on yourself.

UAW has the proper American healthcare.

My dad works for a non-union fortune 500 company.

About a month ago he developed chest pains, resulting in heart surgery a few days later.

He has the Best Blue Cross Aqua Health Plan that he pays for through his employer.

The Insurance Company has now decided to deny the claim, claiming Chest Pains is a pre-existing condition. Now he faces Bankruptcy and enormous unaffordable medical bills. What gives insurance companies the right to decide people’s fate?

This does not happen under UAW healthcare, because the Union has leverage power when negotiating with Insurance companies. They don’t allow their UAW employees to be trampled upon like non-union companies.

Why do we want to dump on working Americans who work hard every day?

We all seem to want to destroy each other and the American Dream.

And im NOT in a union nor would I be, but the fact that the Big3 have supported their employees with the benefits that they have SAVES America money.

When was the last time a Big3 retiree was beggind for more Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security/pension, etc? I don't call that socialism. Sure the UAW may have gotten way too much in the past.. but the past is the past, nothing you can do about it. Still its the opposite of socialism if a company provides healthcare for its workers and doesnt rely on the government.

Lets spill about the "superior" Japanese firms... how efficient they are... thanks in no small part that they don't have anywhere near the legacy costs because the Japanese government takes care of retirement and health care.

Would you like socialized retirement & healthcare? That would take a massive burden off of business in the US...

Cant have your cake and eat it too.

Whatthe,

Let's analyze your comments from a phsycological standpoint. Rather than come up with real points and arguments, you've decided to use childish antics like "don't get your panties in a bunch" and "you need a timeout".

You cannot seriously expect anyone to believe you are anything more than a kid. My 21 yr old brother who is by no means mature and worldly would even have to laugh at your pathetic attempt to make a viable argument and then resort to trying to bait me into a name calling match.

Read some facts before you start namecalling. Your arguments above dont make consistent sense. You talk about how happy you are to see hardworking Americans in unemployment lines (invariably a drain on our government) but at the same time, you are calling company sponsored healthcare socialist.

Am I the only person who sees an inconsistency here?

Comrade.

UAW did it's job by getting the best compensation for their workers - Management agreed to the terms.

No different then "non-union" workers who negotiate their salary, they try and get the best for themselves and if it doesn't meet their needs, they either accept the terms or quit(strike).

Whilst I am sympathetic to the Union's phlight, it must be understood that an extreme of a good thing is also bad.

Risk is good, too much risk is bad (Financial firms).
Fringe benefits are good, too much is bad for the underlying comp.(UAW).

The excesses of both the UAW and management have been going on for decades, this is nothing new. It took 140/oil and a hit in the overall economy to break the camels back.

I hope the decisions made will be made in the interest of the Nation as a whole and not one specific interest group.

Too much rum in the ol' nog? :)

hahah.. Good stuff! Now to get the hands on some elusive Green Label...

Executive pay AND unions are at fault!!

And by the way, what's with the "show me the facts" statements, I think the facts are all over the news every single day!!

UAW and Executives...get a clue and stop being greedy selfish little sons of bitc$%#. And don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about, and if you don't, then that's why you're going down!

You can't be serious... you get your automotive information from the news....... you must be kidding.

So lets pretend I had no knowledge about the auto industry (lets say I live in California and my rich daddy gave me a Lexus LX470, so Im saving the environment since its foreign)

I would think:

1) Detroit makes crappy cars that fall apart like they did in 1987.

2) Detroit is full of a bunch of evil polluters who together with the oil companies, want to rid the world of oil and pollute. (Detroit and big oil have invested lots of money in fighting captain planet too)

3) Detroit forced americans to buy SUVs (I actually heard this B.S. on tv)

4) Buying Asian cars is great because every asian car gets over 40mpg and lasts for at least 300,000miles with no problems

5) UAW members all drive escalades and are fat, lazy and stupid. They get paid to sit around and hit a nail twice an hour.

6) Detroit has no new products and everything they build is of poor quality, ugly design, and poor fuel economy.

7) Detroit factories are from World War 2 and havent been upgraded since (funny how GM took 11 of 20 most efficient auto factories in north america last year)

and the list goes on and on and on.

You want to seriously back up your claims against detroit, then show me REAL data and information. Show me exactly how much it costs to build a malibu, show me how much it costs to run the factories. Show me how much it costs for R&D (and at that point, show me the masssive losses GM and most other manufacturers have incurred trying to make "cars that people want" ie hybrids).

I hear all sorts of random "CNN and Foxnews said it so it must be true" garbage from so many people on this site. Jeez.

Remember, the US media was the same media outlets that bought the BS story from the Bush administration about WMD's in iraq..... and the US public was the same bunch of gullible citizens who believed it.

UAW1 and Neutral are so full of crap; they're nothing but two UAW "nats" . They're so full of themselves with their idiotic UAW comments and "how great the UAW has been over the years". You're a bunch of has been UAW guys going down with your company. I had to remind these two nats about immediate family that had worked at Ford's in Sterling Heights, MI plant. These two think its ok for the UAW members to get government bailout money to pay for their buddy's retirement pensions and health insurance premiums. They also never tells us directly why the Big 3 auto makers are at a $3000 dollar disadavantage per unit right off the bat. In a previous blog, UAW1 told us "the UAW workers have paid the government back a thousand times over and deserve the bailout. The UAW is a bunch of greedy bas$#@s. Get real and quit wasting everyone's time with your useless comments on how "great" the UAW is. If they're so good, why is it that ONLY the union car makers are encountering the most serious trouble?

gkearns,

You my friend are making the idiotic comments. Whoop-tee-do, you had a relative in the UAW, now you're an expert on the auto industry. Guess what, I don't have any connection to the UAW, like Ive said before, my family & friends are all non-union and Im an engineer, so Im non-union.

Take a big wild guess why the transplant automakers pay their workers a good wage with decent benefits? Because they wanted to keep the UAW out of their factories, plain and simple. In effect, the workers at the Japanese & Korean plants in the USA can be happy that the Big3 and their workers have fought the battle over compensation.

Why do you think workers at Hyundai and Toyota plants resist UAW efforts to unionize them? Because of some moral idealism that they shouldn't be in a union?!? You cannot be serious! They won't unionize because they have it too good to bring in what could potentially hurt their company. And the company in turn, pays them a good wage to keep the union out. Its cyclical.

If you are so short sighted to think that the only problem facing the Big 3 is the unions, maybe you should do some more research. Problem #1 (for all automakers) is the collapse of the economy. It's not SUV's or lack of green vehicles, its not quality, blah blah blah. Simply put, congress failed to stop oil speculation, then failed to watch the crooks on wall st.

UAW was dealt with over a year ago. Get over yourself.

Think of it this way... if there was no threat of UAW or unions in the USA, do you really think the Asian manufacturers would pay their workers what they do? Health care would be a band-aid, dental care would be a toothbrush, and a fair wage would be $6/hr.

Neutral: The only person that needs ot get over it is YOU and "UAW1". You need to stop smoking that funny tobacco again. It's makes you babble senseless stuff! Since you're NOT a UAW member, as you indicate, that's even more reason WHY you don't have a clue on what really happens "inside the shop". I did because I had family working on the factory floor and had to listen to some of the horror stories about what some of these UAW workers did that day.

You are such a fool!!. You honestly believe the American autoworkers actually produce as high of quality product as the Japanese and Germans. You're smoking that stuff again!!! Transplant automakers pay their employees competitive wages because they are MORE EFFICIENT plants and better managed. The Japanese plants brought many of their own management styles (quality control concepts) from their home land to American plants. You act like Detroit quality ranks right up there in quality with the foreign cars. You're the one who is full of it. You obviously don't read which car companies that have the highest quality and most satisfied customers (Clue: it isn't the Big3). Unions were a good thing during prohibition days; not now. So wake up and smell the expresso coffee my friend. Your "UAW Friends" are on their last chance. BTW: You STILL haven't told us WHY there is almost a $3000 price difference per unit from your Big3 car makers versus the foreign car maker.

Nuetral

What the hell are you talking about? You seem to believe that unions are the reason that people make any kind of money today. You're pretty ignorant if you think workers would be paid $6/hour "today" at an american vehicle factory, even if there were no unions.

You keep saying "show me the proof!" or "show me the numbers or data (R & D, hybrids, losses...). Honestly, don't you think we see that you're only trying to drown the truth in useless data and numbers in a vein attempt to hide the obvious?

Why don't YOU show US some numbers?

Show US what "credible steps" and "major financial overhauls" are on the table to even make this possible?

Show US proof that financial numbers have made sense for years?

Show US proof that the unions and labor costs are NOT more expensive than their european and japanese counterparts.

Show US that american consumers think that american cars are of better quality that their foreign counterparts.

Show US that an american car manufacturers "fleet" of cars and trucks burns less fuel than their japanese counterparts' fleet (in terms of the cars are on the road today).

Show us (through credible scientific evidence) that the BIG 3 are "ahead of the game" in terms of research and development again compared to their foreign couterparts.

I could go on for pages just like you ranting about facts when in fact they are opinions. Everything you say is the opposite of what we know of the BIG 3 today.

We're seeing the evidence of the BIG 3 failures in all aspects of their business,

When I previously said that we saw the facts every day in the news, I meant that we see the BIG 3 failing "publicly" every day in the news. Dismal sales, NO cunsumer confidence (for years) and no viable plans for a quick recovery. Even if changes were made very soon, within 1 year, it would still take many years to nurse these companies back to profitability.

Can the american taxpayers pay the bills for that long?

Do they want to?

Will they still go bankrupt in the end with nothing to show for it except trillions in the can?

Make NO mistake, unless there are radical changes,they will go bankrupt. The only question is how much money will the american taxpayers will pay before they do...

Keep in mind that European Unions dwarf that of American Unions. They are a huge political force in Italy, France and Germany. Do you expect anything else from such Liberal/Socialistic countries?

The difference between the 2? Germany, Italy, France have been subsidizing their auto makers for decades.

No... I do not support outright govt support of US automakers..... though this situation, unfortunately, may be an exception.

mmeecc: I agree completely. BTW: If you go over to the other blog now, UAW1 and this fool are trying to tell us all how great unions are. Don't these two ever stop with the crap!!

I don't want my tax dollars bailing out UAW.

You have no choice. Even w/o a physical bailout, the workers will be forced into Unemployment, possibly welfare, medicaid etc.

Those workers that did not find another job will probably foreclose on their houses, cars, CC debt. They will not buy discretionary items, keep in mind our economy is consumer based(2/3 of GDP).

We will all pay for the mistakes of the few.