The Genesis is stealing sales, but from who?

Who knows. IMHO, its one of two things:

A) They are stealing sales from just about a little of everybody.

B) They have found an all new kind of the "car buyer".

may be from caddy and Lincoln
they can' touch MB or BMW, Lexus or Infiniti sorry

another stupid argument from spies

^^^Thank you^^^

i totally agree

Yes, S80 sales DROPPED every month till November, when they offered a free pair of Birkenstocks PLUS wool socks with every S80 purchased.

What no sweater with the free pair of Birkenstocks PLUS wool socks?

Well going purely by numbers it would appear it is taking sales away from everyone except the Infiniti M and Volvo S80, as everyone else's numbers have dropped since the Genesis came out and those two increased. By the numbers it would appear the 5 took the biggest hit.

E???

i took the biggest hit, but it has nothing to do with the genesis.

take a close look, 5series sales went up and down simultaniously with genesis sales, except of november.

in october bmw stole more or less sales from hyundai, not really, but more than the other way around

I don't think they are stealing sales from the Mercury Grand Marquis, even though they are similar v8 rear drive sedans.

I mentioned earlier that one could buy 2 Grand Marquis for the price of a Genesis. Now with Employee Pricing for All, it is actually more like 3 Grand Marquis for the price of a Genesis.

I know someone who just bought a used Mitsubishi with 40K miles. She paid $16,000. She could have bought a Brand New Grand Marquis for less money, and she would get a factory warrantee as well.

She thinks she got a great deal and that it is a good car simply because it is foreign, but the vehicle is ready for new tires, brakes, and so on. Some deal.

We tend to buy what is fashionable these days and convince ourselves that it was a great decision.

Yep, The Mercury has a live axle on a Dinosaur platform, but I'm unsure of the importance of that. It seems to handle the interstate rather well. Maybe I would notice the difference if I was a Motor Trend writer taking on the slalom.

you probably would notice the difference if you went out and test drove anything else. Go drive a Genesis and see the difference. I would put that over a Grand Marquis

yeah, it stole as many sales from the merc gran marquee as they did from the ford PINTO.

neither ford (gussied up and plain) even competes in this category. why do have to drag it in to every thread?

Guys, based on this single dimension the rational conclusion is that conquest sales are coming from both BMW & Lexus competitors. However, this simple chart does not even tell a small part of the whole story - like how many Azera owners have upped into the Genesis? What about luxo intenders? The entire segment is plummeting so it is prudent to say that sales iof a new vehicle have to come from somewhere. Based exclusively on this chart the conclusion MUST be 5-Series & GS trended over months since Genesis was launched.

I don't get how Lincoln is even able to get some of the sales it does. I thought Audi priced their cars out of their range. Atleast with the Audi you get some degree of substance with your purchase. Lincolns are just gussied up Ford's, and then they tack on about $12k to the price.

Lincoln needs to go back to the LS formula. They had it right with that car, even if it was sourced from the Brits(gotta throw that in there before some dou**e points it out). Sometimes I wonder why some car companies produce these one-off wonders that sell and then go "eh...let's axe it".

bmw8ter What do you think Lexus is all it is a Toyota Camry, with a 15, to 20,000 price differnce. Infact there is no Lexus in forein countrys they cannot sell outside of this country.

FOR THE 100TH TIME it the Lincoln MKS is on the S80's platform! It is amazing how the Lincoln gets slammed for bringing out the best model they have. It really shows the support for Lincoln.I mean why doesn't anyone call the Escalade a warmed up GMC or that the CTS is a warmed up Malibu? People call the MKS a warmed up Ford when this is one of the Lincolns built on a Volvo platform. Don't even get me started on Toyota..wait sorry Lexus every model except the LS i basically a warmed up Toyota.

if you don't even know the difference between "warmed over" and "warmed up" your 'analysis' has little credibiility.

The reason No ONE calls the CTS a warmed up Malibu maybe because it isn't. Rear wheel drive and front wheel drive platform normally have different chassis designs. So what next?

*is

The GS is definitely the easiest target and most effected...I've driven the new Genesis (3.8)...Awesome vehicle with a great interior and excellent mix of ride & handling...I drive an 08 Infiniti G35xS and I was expecting a much softer Buick/Lexus ride out of the Genesis but it is very close in feel to an Infiniti M...I've driven most of the cars above at least once (except the S80, 9-5 and STS but those are not competitive in this class)...Without a doubt the Genesis is best overall value - all things being equal (price not taken into acct) I'd rank them: 1) Infiniti M 2) 5 Series 3) Genesis 4) A6 5) GS and 6) RL
It is a game changer...If you don't thing so, drive it and you will...

More like the 5-series and A6 going by the chart.

but from WHOM?

Ford, GM and Chrysler!

Ford, Chrysler and GM's contributions after 9/11

An interesting commentary...You might find this of interest:

'CNN Headline News did a short news listing regarding Ford and GM's contributions to the relief and recovery efforts in New York and Washington .

The findings are as follows.....

1. Ford- $10 million to American Red Cross matchi n g employee contributions of the same number plus 10 Excursions to NY Fire Dept. The company also offered ER response ! team se rvices and office space to displaced government employees.

2. GM- $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the sam e number and a fleet of vans, suv's, and trucks.

3. Daimler Chrysler- $10 million to support of the children and victims of the Sept. 11 attack.

4. Harley Davidson motorcycles- $1 million an d 30 new motorcycles to the
New York Police Dept.

5. Volkswagen-Employees and management created a Sept 11 Foundation,
funded initial with $2 million , for the assistance of the children and victims of the WTC.

6. Hyundai- $300,000 to the American Red Cross.

7. Audi- Nothing.

8. BMW- Nothing.

9. Daewoo- Nothing.

10. Fiat- Nothing.

11. Honda- Nothing despite boasting of second best sales month ever in
August 2001

12. Isuzu- Nothing .

1 3. Mitsubis hi- Nothing .

14. Nissan- Nothing .

15. Porsche- Nothing . Press release with condolences via the Porsche website.

16. Subaru- Nothing .

17. Suzuki- Nothing .

18. Toyota- Nothing despite claims of high sales in July and August 2001.


Whenever the time may be for you to purchase or lease a new vehicle, keep this information in mind. You might want to give more consideration to a car manufactured by an American-owned and / or American based company. Apart from Hyundai and Volkswagen, the foreign car companies contributed nothing at all to the citizens of the United States ... It's OK for these companies to take money out of this country, but it is apparently not acceptable to return some in a time of crisis. I believe we should not forget things like this. Say thank you in a way that gets their attention..

thanks for the info.

You should do a little for research before you throw stones!! Check this website to get the correct info
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/automakers.asp

bestofallcad:

your list is not correct (due to bias?). In case you appreciate the facts, here some details regarding BMW (quote from original press release):

"BMW Group Pledges Aid for Relief Efforts

September 14, 2001 - The BMW Group is committing cash and products to the American Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund and the City of New York to assist in relief efforts following Tuesday's attack on the United States.

BMW will donate $1 million in cash and ten new BMW X5 Sports Activity Vehicles to the Red Cross for its national relief efforts. One hundred police motorcycles will be given to the City of New York to help replace equipment lost in the New York Police Department motor pool. The total donation is valued at $2.4 million.

In a joint statement, the chief executives of BMW's manufacturing, sales and marketing, financial services, technology and design companies said "on behalf of our employees, dealers, and customers, we hope this donation will assist the relief effort, honor the memory of those who lost their lives, and show our appreciation for the freedom and opportunity this country offers."

The BMW companies in the United States are located in Spartanburg, SC; Woodcliff Lake, NJ, Dublin, OH, and Newbury Park, CA."

They are stealing sales by people who have not actually driven or owned what they think is the competition.

Anyone who has driven a Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes and also a Genesis knows that they are not competitors.

People that think they are competitors but dont know the difference are Genesis buyers. More of that as seen on TV thing.

SteedPub - Have you actually driven all these cars or are you assuming? I have - including the 5 at the BMW plant in SC...If you drive them back to back (or as close as is possible) you'll understand. Not JUST because I'm an Infiniti owner but the M rules this class real world...

the monthly sales gains from july to november was a mere 532 units. over that same period, the S lost almost 1600, the GS about 600, the sts about 550, and the a6 about 800 units.

july may've been just a ramp up (or less than full) month, and if you start from august, the genesis was actually DOWN 26 units. and everybody else except volvo was DOWN too, even more drastically.

bottom line: EVERYBODY was down; the genesis had relatively little effect. it likely DID have SOME effect. it's just not possible to QUANTIFY it against any given competing model.

THAT SAID, THE WINNERS ARE s80 (only model showing a GAIN), genesis, and the M (down a mere 35 units).

the biggest loser is the 5, followed by the gs and a6.

Guys, guys come on. What the hell. It is only a matter of time before the changing of the guards. The Genesis is a GREAT value for the money. It is, rather pride has gotten most stupid, or some are stuck on stupid, the Genesis is going to steal sales like the LS 400 did in the 90's no doubt. What was Lexus compared to BMW or Mercedes back then remember? N O T H I N G. Toyota was still viewed as a good company that made great, dependable cars with no personality. The next generation Genesis will probably do even better with more midsize sedans on the horizon. Give credit where credit is due. It is what it is.

You need to take into account that some of the cars are in their last year of production like the E class and 5 series, so it is something normal for their sales to be down. I think the Genesis is creating its own sales, or perhaps from the people who buy base models of each car, and value orientated people.

yeah, sure........

5 sales DOWN 2360 units from august peak when genesis had first full month. a6 down 803 units, MORE THAN 50%.

german 'powerhouse' is going down like a zeppelin with huge holes in the gasbags!

The fallacy in this inane argument is...

The Hyundai Genisis isn't STEALING sales from anything, it's EARNING them from buyers who have long grown tired of paying exorbitant amounts of money for the name/emblem/image of too many other over-hyped/over-priced luxury vehicles...

These are consumers who not only recognize that a truly modern luxury vehicle's asking price should be directly proportional to its discernible attributes, but are acting upon said fact.

Good for Hyundai, and even better for the smart consumer!

These number say nothing at all

Funny... Neither does your comment.

im not sure who there stealing from but those marketing guys keep me ROTF

faster then an boxter...FACT
out handle/corners the E550, 550i and the GS460...FACT
size like an 7
performance of 5
price like 3....THINK ABOUT IT

Sales are only 5000 cars, or 100 per state on average. Rarer than a VW Phaeton. But its new, so give it time. Even longer in "a conservative county" where it won't hold badge appeal.