10 cars that killed Detroit

I think the people who killed the Zero Emission Vehicle mandate in california back in '02 or '03 have to be held accountable. Instead of making the fuel efficient cars people want, these guys (big 3, Bush administration, oil companies) sued the California clean air board and won.

Now they want a bailout? Meanwhile Fisker Karma is about to put out a car that is sold out until mid 2010.

I don't know how Bob Lutz, Jim Waggoner etc can look anyone in the eyes with a straight face. What a bunch of bonafide losers.

"Instead of making the fuel efficient cars people want..." DinamoR, do you mean electric and hybrid vehicles by this?

Consumers vote with their checkbook and during the 1990's and up to the rising gas prices this past summer, they chose large SUV's (Tahoe's, Surburbans, etc.). Small cars have never been popular with the American public. And now that oil is at $42 a barrel instead of $148, we're seeing hybrid sales decrease and SUV sales increase.

Oh please. This goes waaaay before this past summer, and in anycase they should be thinking long term.

Who cares if gas prices go down. If you're dumb enough then go ahead and invest in Hummer now. But then don't come begging for a bailout few years down the road.

"And now that oil is at $42 a barrel instead of $148, we're seeing hybrid sales decrease and SUV sales increase."

Please show me stats of this?

LOL Fisker will cost $87,600 actually, and yeah they're sold out until mid 2010. Which means theres a waiting list for their car, while Detroit can't give theirs away for free.

""""In the year since we debuted the Karma, the reception we've received has been tremendous. I'm proud to announce at this time that we are already sold out on the car until mid-2010." With a base price of $87,900, the environmentally friendly luxury saloon is scheduled to begin delivery in November next year."""""""""""

http://www.motorauthority.com/fisker-confirms-detroit-debut-for-production-karma-plug-in-hybrid.html

you know your right, the big 3 have never made fuel efficient cars.....I mean who does GM think they are making on the first mass produced electric cars a decade ago, and than from there having a whole of slew hybrids and 4cylinder cars that sip fuel, or making that Volt,that thing is a real gas guzzler, and imagine GM having a V8 that pill out perform many V10, and V12 cars, with alot better gas mileage not to mention better than than many V8 cars,and some V6 cars. Or how Ford was one of the first with a hybrid suv if not the first, or .....i think you get the point One of thing i hate about this whole mess is people act as if the only people making gas guzzlers is detroit, like everythign GM makes is a variation of the escalade and they all have V8, are you kidding GM, and Ford have a ton of cars that get great gas mileage perception is killing htem you would swear everything coming from overseas was 10 times better and no gas guzzlers........ignorrance really is bliss

What are you talking about? GM killed the electric EV1. They sued California for its ZEV mandate, and killed the electric car. What the movie "who killed the electric car" it spells it all out pretty well. They clearly thought Hummers and Suburbans was the future.

DinaMORON is in college, that's all you need to know. Like many in their early 20s he knows everything.

"so that busineses don't have to worry about giving their workers health care and retirement." Why stop there, why make business worry about providing paychecks? Why make people worry about finding housing? All those mean evil capitalistic architects out there only building housing for profit. My comrades if only we could eliminate the architects making all that money the people could finally get housing according to their needs.....

LOL enp you're crazy.

Hay, if you think things are awesome right now, keep at it buddy. Bless your heart;-)

Thank you HSCenterConsole.

DinamoR,
you are very ignorant if you think that cylinder deactivation and "little" other technologies like that are stupid. I agree, we are definately moving towards electrics cars (I can't say if I want to or not..) but stop being ignorant.

Direct Injection CTS costs $1000 more than non-DI CTS. Although the EPA rates the 2 as very similar, you have to look deeper than that. Usually the EPA isn't too good at really gauging fuel-economy (they are the government afterall...) DI can get up to 7-8% better fuel economy, depending on how engine is tuned.

6 spd vs. 4 or 5spd transmissions usually get 7-10% better overall fuel economy.

Cylinder De-activation gets about 8-20% better fuel economy.

Cam-phasing / variable lift / variable lobe duration have great gains in power/torque/economy.

Why bullsh*t ourselves when these things (the same things GM is heavily pushing) are the BEST way to get ourselves more efficient for the best costs. Congress & the media need to get off the hybrid hype. I love hybrids/EV's, but I like being reasonable a lot more.

Once again.. too many liberal arts morons comprise congress/media, not enough engineers. We should have quotas on how many un-educated, liberal arts "wizards" we have running our government. They are truly the cause of all problems in the country. Think.. if American auto companies (and the government for that matter) were run like their Japanese counterparts from 1965-2003 (humble engineers), do you really think there'd be a problem here?!?!?!

America.... victim of its own success. Complacency has driven us to be a nation of MBA's and Lawyers who expect too much.

Current Big3 management is paying for sins of the past.

Also,

Fisker has selected GM (yes GENERAL MOTORS) as the supplier of its gasoline engine for the Karma. This engine is the 2.0L, turbo, DI engine found in the Saturn Sky Redline.

Fisker also announced that other GM parts will be used in Fisker's lineup and that GM is a strategic partner.

You'd be hard pressed to narrow it down to just 10 people responsible for killing Detroit.

Hey HSC, time to take your head out of your ass and at least smell the coffee!!!...Even though gas is down, people will still compromise the benefit of "alternative fuel efficient" autos for the long term weather hybrid or not and actually hold some value$$$ to what they own. Wow you must be one of those fools who still drives a 1980's GM shit bangers...Hybrids is just the starting point of what to expect into the near future of the auto industry. The BIG 3 Crack-ASS execs already admitted to that...but it's too late....and now they all beg for some nickels and dimes b/c we are "BROKE!" like you HSC did not think long term! HSC...are you part of the desparate half-ass UAW crew?!?!....LMAO!!!

BigShow50;
Nice to see you're enjoying the demise of the Auto industry, but my guess is that you'll stop LYAO when the ripple effect of job losses in the Auto Industry gets to you and the value of your assets and investments.
Yes, Asians can build cars for a lot less than North Americans. I suspect that Asians could do your job better and for less money than you're getting right now as well. I suspect that like millions of others, you'll learn that sooner or later.

People who work in Japanese auto factories get paid pretty much the same (around $28/hr) as here. Its just that in Japan and German and every other developed country in the world other than USA there is a national health care system and also a huge government retirement system so that busineses don't have to worry about giving their workers health care and retirement.

Bigshow50, read any of my past posts and you will find that I have consistently been opposed to the UAW and have recommended Chapter 11 for the Big Three as the only way to survive (by breaking union and dealership contracts). I also drive a 3-Series, not a GM truck from the 1980's.

My point was that Detroit produced so many trucks and SUV's because that is what the public wanted when fuel was cheap. Don't forget due to the CAFE standards, they were also forced to make small cars which they sold at a loss. The American public has never embraced the small car. Let the consumers, not Congress, decide what type of cars they want to drive.

This is a reason why I think the Chevrolet Volt will be a failure. Even at the estimated $40,000 sticker, GM will lose money on every first generation Volt sold. Even with the proposed $7,500 tax credit, I think the majority of the buying public will shun a small $40,000 Chevy sedan.

Hey don't shit on my Pinto...three more payments and that baby's all mine!

I like my big V8 SUV. I think I'll keep it. Gas is headling below $1 a gallon anyway.

Dude...whatever...Cylinder shut down...blah blah...how about we get rid of cylinders period?

What about in places like LA where there is so much pollution that every disease from asthma to cancer and birth defects is exploading. People are wondering why autism in on such a huge rise lately. Poised air, water and food as well as formaldehyde components that off gas poison everywhere from the paint on the walls of your house to your matress.

People who like big SUV are killed us and the world. And know most people think this is funny, but it will change soon, trust me, and people will abandon this dirty polluting 19th century technology.

No but I'm a senior Architecture major in a major US university. It doesn't matter how ignorant you are, once you go thru 4 years of architecture and learn what's going on you will become an environmentalist. There is nothing moronic about that. Actually, you're the moron. Straight up;-)

And what a hells a segue? I'd love to get my hands on a Fisker Karma and I'll design myself the coolest 22nd century energy independent living-house with the technology available. Though that will be nothing compared to the awesome living-buildings that really will be designed in the 22nd century.

You have to be the only person alive that doesn't know what a segue(segway) is.

I sell Nissan's and no customer has looked at a Hybrid in months. They are just sitting on the lot's. Trucks and SUV's are starting to sell again! Some!

Big American V8's forever!! I drive what I want to drive not what some environmentalist idiots or the government pushing one of the biggest scams ever: GLOBAL WARMING!!

It's about FREEDOM!! Wake up America!

Here are my Top 10:

#10: Cadillac Cimarron – Take a four-cylinder Chevy Cavalier, add leather, and call it a Caddy. Who will know?

#9: Old Cutlass Diesel – Billowing clouds of blue smoke daily, this car singlehandedly convinced an entire generation of car owners to shun the diesel engine.

#8: Plymouth Reliant K-car – The original 50,000 mile throw-away car. If it lasted that long.

#7: Ford Fiesta – What a POS.

#6: Ford Excursion – Known as the Ford Extinction, this vehicle had a carbon footprint the size of Bigfoot.

#5: Chrysler Cordoba: Corinthian leather: yes. Luxury transportation: no.

#4: Ford Tempo – Sold mostly to rental car companies. And everyone who rented one vowed to never buy a Ford. Ever.

#3: Ford Explorer – High speed rollovers, family style.

#2: Chevy Vega – Chevy’s answer to the Ford Mustang II. What was the question?

And #1: Ford Pinto – The exploding gas tank: standard equipment. Apologies from Ford for burning you and your loved ones to a crisp: non-existent.

WHAT no pacer, gremlin or my personal favorite .....MATADOR Although I think these three cars definately make the point that detroit doesnt really know what americans want................or even sadder, maybe they do

"While GM was spending $1 billion to build up the Hummer franchise, Toyota was spending $1 billion to develop a high-mileage hybrid—even though gas prices were still low. After the Prius debuted in the United States in 2000, GM execs seized yet another opportunity to display their intimate knowledge of American consumers, arguing that hybrids didn't make economic sense and that only environmentalists would buy them. Today, Toyota can barely keep up with demand for the Prius, and it has plans to start building them in the United States. GM, meanwhile, is scrambling to rush hybrids and other high-mileage cars into dealerships—far too late."

Enough said!

Agree 110%! You hit the nail on the proverbial head!

But it was worse than that. Yes, it was $1B for Hummer but it was also $1B for the Z06 and $1B for the Camaro and $1B for the new CTS-V and $5B to sell cars at a loss because no one would buy the same old crappy models for a profit.

GM could and should have had some vision and sunk all of that money into the Volt two years ago and had it would be on the street by now.

Cobalt
G5
Aveo
Journey
G8
Jeep Patriot
Avenger
Traverse
Colorado
Aspem
etc.

They need to stop coming out with new cars and discontinue them in a year. That shows they are insecure about the product they sell. Stick to cars people know for a long time and slowly add one or two to the line-up and make a name for them. Be more competitive and make cars more durable.

Another thing is they produce so many cars on one chassis:

Escalade
Yukon
Tahoe
Z71
Suburban


Gmc Envoy
Isuzu Ascender
Trail-Blazer
Bravada

Fusion
Milan
lincoln mk?

Expedition
Navigator
..
there are alot more, they never make one car without 4 siblings it doesnt make sense.

The funny thing is that all the chassis are no good to begin with.

veyron would know b/c he is a structural engineer with the government. He tests the integrity of all manufacturer's vehicles ard compares them to eachother as well as to historical data.

---Sarcasm---

Ford Contour - Terrible reliability and only made for the NA market for 4 years. This kind of dumping of names in favour of "new" ones builds no kind of loyalty.

Chrysler Neon - First generation was "cool" at the time because it was different. There were several models available, though they should have NOT been available at Plymough, dodge, AND chrysler as it did not make sense. For the all new model introduced in 2000, with a standard 3spd auto (in 2000!), and rediculous reliability and durability issues, younger customers were alienated from the lack of a 2-door. For the record, my 1997 base Hyundai Elantra commuter car came standard with a 4 speed automatic! It's almost as if Chrysler assumed people would buy their cars even though this one was at least a step behind.

GM - Oldsmobile Achieva/Buick Skylark, 1993 model year. Their attempt at "different" styling just came off as tacky, with the half covered rear wheels. Not to mention the cheap build quality and fit and finish. These were "filler" models for GM and it showed - barely anybody snapped one up.

Chevrolet Cavalier and Pontiac Sunfire 1994-2005 (!) having a "made over" model over 11 years will NOT do any good, as the usual is 4 years for a FULL MODEL REMAKE. This shows GM's arrogance and disrespect for their "customers". These cars sold reasonably well, which blows my mind as a car enthusiast. I would NEVER buy a car with an 11 year old platform! This also shows the other side - the uneducated consumer that simply trusts that what GM makes will be a good car. Build quality on these cars is appauling. Have you seen the rear bumper/ trunk lid? Next time you are behind one, look at the right side - there is ALWAYS a larger gap than on the left side, and the taillights on the body don't properly match up with the taillights on the trunk lid.

These are just a few. I have too many to list. Just comparing between SO SO many non-big 3 cars, it is apparent that the Big 3 had the, "they will buy whatever we have to build for them" mentality, and I believe that it made a lot of (educated) people angry. Cost cutting was another red flag and obvious issue - where other manufacturers try to put shoddy or cheaper materials where you don't see them, the big 3 just put them everywhere....no matter the price. Think the Pontiac Grand AM bubbly, bulbous dash design. Then compare to a Honda Accord. It's embarrassing, to say the least.

It's not just fuel economy. Some big 3 cars are actually pretty good on gas, but it was the A) lack of urgency to produce the "greener" cars and B) lack of a desireable product...Not until a year or 2 ago did GM smarten up and bring back better quality like the Malibu and Saturn Aura sisters. These have the ability to change people's idea of an American car, but they still don't drive like some of the competition.

Ford Contour - Terrible reliability and only made for the NA market for 4 years. This kind of dumping of names in favour of "new" ones builds no kind of loyalty.

Chrysler Neon - First generation was "cool" at the time because it was different. There were several models available, though they should have NOT been available at Plymough, dodge, AND chrysler as it did not make sense. For the all new model introduced in 2000, with a standard 3spd auto (in 2000!), and rediculous reliability and durability issues, younger customers were alienated from the lack of a 2-door. For the record, my 1997 base Hyundai Elantra commuter car came standard with a 4 speed automatic! It's almost as if Chrysler assumed people would buy their cars even though this one was at least a step behind.

GM - Oldsmobile Achieva/Buick Skylark, 1993 model year. Their attempt at "different" styling just came off as tacky, with the half covered rear wheels. Not to mention the cheap build quality and fit and finish. These were "filler" models for GM and it showed - barely anybody snapped one up.

Chevrolet Cavalier and Pontiac Sunfire 1994-2005 (!) having a "made over" model over 11 years will NOT do any good, as the usual is 4 years for a FULL MODEL REMAKE. This shows GM's arrogance and disrespect for their "customers". These cars sold reasonably well, which blows my mind as a car enthusiast. I would NEVER buy a car with an 11 year old platform! This also shows the other side - the uneducated consumer that simply trusts that what GM makes will be a good car. Build quality on these cars is appauling. Have you seen the rear bumper/ trunk lid? Next time you are behind one, look at the right side - there is ALWAYS a larger gap than on the left side, and the taillights on the body don't properly match up with the taillights on the trunk lid.

These are just a few. I have too many to list. Just comparing between SO SO many non-big 3 cars, it is apparent that the Big 3 had the, "they will buy whatever we have to build for them" mentality, and I believe that it made a lot of (educated) people angry. Cost cutting was another red flag and obvious issue - where other manufacturers try to put shoddy or cheaper materials where you don't see them, the big 3 just put them everywhere....no matter the price. Think the Pontiac Grand AM bubbly, bulbous dash design. Then compare to a Honda Accord. It's embarrassing, to say the least.