If The Mercedes C63 And BMW M3 Sedan's Are SO Good, WHY Did the Lexus IS-F Outsell Them Last Month?

The "one thing that REALLY matters" is which car the buyer likes the best. They are all great autos.

the Ford F150 sells more so that must be better. Another stupid flaim war on Autospies

that pic above is not the is-f. its like a is350

No doubt about that mate....

Because it's a new model.

Isn't the M3 sedan even newer? Just came out like this summer

Is-F still a new benchmark in the block..... sales dont matter

"So the Spies want to know, if the Mercedes C63 and BMW M3 sedan's are SO good, WHY did they lose the sales crown last month?"

because IS-F is also equally good. All 3 competing cars have their positives and negatives. Overall there are almost equal.

JUGNU

it's also $15k less expensive. option up an M3 and it's nearly $80k.

and the IS-F has only been in stock in any real numbers in the past 2 months.

one data point is not a trend. let me know when the IS-F outsells the M3 or C63 for 6 months, a year, 5 years.

once again, toyota and lexus prove that whenever they SET THEIR MINDS TO IT, they are capable of matching or beating the germans at building and selling QUALITY cars. which they have done ever since the creation of the lexus brand.

they are just showing that now, their PERFORMANCE creds are as good as the quality creds.

Even though the IS-F lost almost all comparisons to the two, it doesn't make it a bad car. It's a great car competing in one of the most agressive segments.

Because the Lexus IS-F offer customers what they want. Period.

because it's $15k less.
because it's only available in quantity for the past couple of months.
because of the 'new' factor.

LOL keep trying enthusiast. You're hard at work fighting reality:D

I assume that the Lexus is less expensive than its German counterparts and though it comes in third in almost every comparison, it's still a good car. In this recession/depression, price may be as important in this segment as in all the others.

Lexus IS-F: $ 56,610

BMW M3 Sedan: $ 54,500

Never assume anything

A fully loaded IS-F hovers around $62k. I'd like to see you pick up a loaded M3 sedan for that much.

Right Bmw8ter, more like 68k plus loaded for the M3

Actually, a fully loaded M3 costs more than a fully loaded IS-F.

The M3 may cost more out the door fully loaded, but the M3 also includes 4 years or 50k miles "free" maintenance service. While Lexus charges for maintenance. The M3 also requires a $1300 gas guzzler tax, according to CarsDirect.com. Probably because it doesn't offer an 8-speed to accomplish better mileage. So I would say they are fairly even in costs overall.

Yup the gas guzzler tax ads at least $1,300 to the M3 price. Might be more in california. Lexus specifically made the IS-F so it pollutes less and does not have the gas guzzler tax, so its cheaper. Lexus deserves props for that.

fully optioned ISF: $61,000
fully optioned M3: $81,000

never assume anything dynamo.

compare apples to apples. ISF is loaded with nearly everything as standard equipment. M3 has many expensive options.

You can get big discounts on an M3, so stop with the money comparison.

really david?

i couldn't even get much of a discount on my 335i despite having 3 dealers compete.

when demand outstrips supply you don't get discounts. econ 101. take that class in grad school or no?

ChuckG37

Actually, I doubt a C63 will lose out to a G37 on a track. The C63 is barely slower than an M3 around the track, because of the 6.2l engine.

No one cross-shops a G37 with those cars. It doesn't compare in either performance or price. Stop with the G37 comparisons, it just can't compete with them.

Man that car is fugly! BMW 3 series is a better driving car and far better looking. The lexus figures are higher because its a new car. In the longterm the majority of buyers and critics will put the M3 ahead of it...

M3 Sedan just came out. Its even newer than the IS-F

Becouse better car means for everyone something different, peoples do not only look which car is getting more points OVERALL in comparison tests.

These cars are in the same class and are always compared together in comparison tests but this doesn't necessarily mean that someone who is considering IS-F is also considering C63AMG and M3.
Maybe IS-F is bought by previous owners of Supra or IS350 and than IS-F haven't taken over many M3 or C63 sales.
This is similar situation to the Hyundai Genesis from some recent post when author was thinking that Hyundai have taken over some BMW, Mercedes or Lexus customers. No, those are probably previous Hyundai owners who have bought the Genesis.

And? You could say the same thing about M3 and C63 owners

This claim is based on what?
Neither Lexus, Mercedes nor BMW have posted the sales of the IS-F, C63, M3 in a while.
It will be nice if you show us the source of the information

Maybe it outsold the M3 sedan (limousine) version of the BMW M3. But remember BMW offer this car in both the Coupe and the Cabrio versions, which account for over 2/3 of the M3 production. Not so many customers go for the sedan version. But M3 sales are higher than that jap crap.

I was going to say that too. At first, if they said they beat the m3 sales overall, then I may be surprised, but with the M3 being sold as a coupe and a sedan - sales goes both ways depending on who wants a particular model. The IS-F, today, is only sold as a sedan, so anyone looking at the Lexus and interested in the IS-F is going to get a sedan since there is not currently a choice between a coupe and a sedan.

JB007,
There is no need to write racist and derogatory labels describing the Japanese people. A lot of Japanese individuals read this site and this is deeply offensive to them. You owe them an apology.

001, before posting this flame war article, how about getting your loyal readers some actual sales numbers first?

Those numbers aren't posted yet but I have no reason to doubt Templin's word.

001

Exact sales figures, please...

well you are only talking about one month what about the rest? remember lexus is giving the cars away so people that wanted the car are getting all the remaining 08's . BMW in the other hand ( I sell BMW's ) sold all 08 models 3 months ago so that leaves people having to pay full sticker for 09's

another STUPID headline ... a car's performance is not compared by its price point. How idiotic is this?

People with money will rather buy a C-Class AMG model overwhelmingly over a Lexus. The fact is there are MORE people with less money that can only afford a Lexus.

Why not just crown the F150 or Camry Kings of Performance!!! Moron.

Stop with the BS Lexus propaganda huuie. It gets old listening to our tired arguement. Don't you ride a camel?

Well Lexus currently has a $3000.00 dollar deal incentive and a .9% interest rate. BMW has the interest rate but not the cash. In addition, The IS-F has more of a margin to discount, take a look;

hey huu!

did you miss the recent autospies posting....BMW is the second highest profitability per car at $3,100 per car. toylex is at $2,100.

so explain how BMW selling cars at far higher prices and making 50% more profit per car equals giving their cars away.

furthermore, lexus sales are down FAR MORE than BMW is the past year.

feel free to provide data to refute any of the above.

just the facts huu.

Brainwashed Americans who think Lexus is an actual premium marquee that's who.

Boy I tell you, this agent001 geek thrives on throwing out flame bait. How someone with the apparent brains to run a website shows such little common sense in his logic and posts is beyond me.

If a one-month sales figure equals superiority in your mind, then I guess the 3/5 series, and c/e classes, are FAR superior to the is and gs, since they frankly kick both the toyota's asses in sales.

As for the is-f outselling in one month, so the hell what? Maybe they're piling up on lots, whereas the M and c are rarer and more special-order type vehicles. And this 'morsel' did come from a toyota mouthpiece, who's to say he even has his facts right?

Bottom line, it doesnt matter if toyota moves 5k a month, and the germans move 10 of each, this boy-racer jap toy still and always will play backup and 3rd best.

Well Lexus currently has a $3000.00 dollar deal incentive and a .9% interest rate. BMW has the interest rate but not the cash. In addition, The IS-F has more of a margin to discount, take a look;

Base price BMW M3 Sedan

MSRP $53,800 Invoice $49,495 = $4305 Mark up

Base price Lexus IS-F

MSRP $56,000 Invoice $ 49,280 = $6720.00 Mark up + 3000 dealer cash = $9720 in possible discounts,

$5415 more room to discount than the M3

The BMW M3 sedan has always been a niche player in the U.S. and a stronger sell in Europe.

What is suspect about the number are they for U.S or the World? How much did they out sell them by?

Here’s a quote for Autoblog,

“We can't confirm, since Lexus doesn't break down sales of the IS by model”

As Mark Twain said “There are three kind of lies, lies, damned lies and statistics”.

you're right, lexus doesn't break down any sales of models...and refuses to break out its profitability from toyota as well. the reason: the numbers are NOT pretty.

publicly traded companies simply do NOT hold back positive data from the market. however, they do bury numbers that they don't want public. that's the lexus way.

IS-F has a very hard suspension. People are actually complaining that its too hard.

But yeah, the ISF is supposed to be an sport car that anyone can drive, while bmw is more for very experienced drivers. that could be a big part of it

Dude, whatever. I don't care about clarkson or stig or any other racer/journalist. I make up my own mind. And so do most other people.

"But yeah, the ISF is supposed to be an sport car that anyone can drive, while bmw is more for very experienced drivers. that could be a big part of it"

have you seen the fifth gear comparison test? the fast round in the is-f looked like a suicid attempt. it's not meant to be for unexperiened drivers, it's not meant to be driven fast around corners, like any lexus

because as the M3 goes, everyone wants the coupe! how did the M3 coupe sell against the IS-f? exactly...

and i would like exact sales figures as well.

Because many consumers are finally coming around to understanding that the actual price of a vehicle should be directly proportional to the tangible attributes it represents.

They're all fine automobiles, but (apparently) for many shopping in this segment, the IS-F simply represents the better overall package/value.

Note: add a few options to either the BMW or the Mercedes, and they can easily top 70k, whereas the IS-F comes (pretty much) fully loaded at around 60k.

"the IS-F simply represents the better overall package/value."

Every car magazine in the world disagrees with you.

That's all good and well, but...

There are obviously legions of consumers, who place a much higher priority on the fact that they are buying a top-of-the-range/fully-optioned compact luxury vehicle for a (seemingly) great price, all accompanied by the Toyota/Lexus level of quality/service/value, rather than the opinion of some magazine.

Remember, that we auto enthusiasts represent just a small percentage of the vehicle-buying market, and the rest just want 'what they want', based of an entirely different set of criteria.

Apparently for buyers last month, that was enough to give the IS-F an edge in sales...

This is an enthuiast car. The IS-F also seems to carry the most incentives this month. Those sales numbers U.S. or world wide? Lexus isn't saying.

and most posters here disagree with YOU! lol!

judging from daharder's +7 to your -9 at his time.

I for one believe Templin but one month of sales figs means nothing. How about the month before or the month before that? A LOT of reasons could have contributed to the IS-F's success and it may have nothing to do with it being "better" than the C63 or M3....
Personally I'd take the C63. It's cheaper than the "M", roomier than the IS-F and faster than both. True, it takes no skill to mash the throttle but if I wanted a challenge I'd buy an EVO and go drifting all day.....

I showed you what Lexus discounts are, and they're nothing compared to what BMW has to offer to get their cars off the lot.

WRONG Lexus offers .9% on the IS-F plus $3000 to the dealer. Edmunds.com

Edmund True Market Value (TMV)

Lexus IS-F (base car)
MRSP $56,825 invoice $50,105 TMV $57,763

BMW M3 Sedan (base car)
MRSP $56,625 invoice $52,265 TMV $56,625


Bring it, anyone. Providing a little proof should be easy if BWM really is still a premium car.

WRONG AGAIN

Munich-based BMW, the world’s biggest premium-car company - Bloomber news

"Is this perfection? History has shown that there’s always room for improvement. But even so, in our view, no current family of cars comes closer to that elusive target." Car and Driver 3er 10 best.

The 135i is a driver's car, a "gotta have" car. Road and Track
1st Place: BMW 135i
Jaw-dropping drag racer in an Armani firesuit. It's one you want to live with, just not pay for month to month. Motor Trend.

I can go on and on and on. Show me on automotive writer out thier that doesn't consider BMW a premium car.

You should really get behind the wheel of a BMW instead of having blind Prejudice.

Rats, should read

MRSP $56,825 invoice $50,105 TMV $51,763

Before the IS-F came out everyone was saying how its a joke and won't even compete. How Lexus won't be able to sell them for that price.

The fact that the first performance Lexus ever is even close to the M3 that has been a legend for 2 decades means Lexus has done something right, yet again. Why does that surprise anyone? If you haven't noticed yet, don't bet against Lexus. They broke into the luxury market 20 years ago, they know what theyre doing.

you're just a moron huu.

another bs post, all 3 of these cars are good cars and they all have been around a few months now, where are the sales figures..........lol and if you are judging how good cars are by sales........than that really saids alot and nothing good

I'm sure the IS-F is a fine, high-performance sedan...BUT the view of the auto, in front of the A-pillar makes the car look like a pregnant whale.
Not good, when the M3 and MBenz C63 look terrific.

The IS-F outsold the C63 and M3 as the B7 RS4 is out of production. Just wait till the RS5 comes into play, order will be restored.

my thoughts exactly.. I'm glad the RS4 is limited production...

Before you deboost me, read below:

The IS-F is a brand new model, newer than the C63 and M3 (not saying they are old or anything), and it is normally always like this with cars people have been waiting a long time for. Also, it is Lexus' first real go at a big sports car market (don't you dare say the SC is even a bit sporty). Unlike BMW, Mercedes and Audi, who have been doing, alongside there other models, sports cars that are fast and agressive, Lexus never have really got into that market until now. Also, Lexus is pretty popular in the US so many people might be switching, as their kids get older, from their RX 330 to an IS-F. You get the point.

motor1

I personally think the M3 Coupe is the best, and I'd like to see Lexus take a real stab at the M3 Coupe with an IS-F version of the cabriolet, or even a coupe.

Sedan-wise, I'd take the C-Class because it is more practical and looks like an axe murderer.

It's probably because people are different and have different tastes.

I'll never understand some people's attitudes here.

If an M3 or a C63 were your dream car (or what you actually drive) would you prefer that everyone else likes and drives the same car as you?

So can we assume theres a coupe-convert IS-F coming?

btw thats the regular IS in that picture

I just got home from Buca di Beppo Italian Restaurant and I was parked next to a new BMW M3 at the Irvine Market Place.

It was awesome ;->

Here's a photo of the outdoor mall.

http://www.lamf.com/pics/irvine_tustin_market_place.jpg

"The E46's never needed any form of discount, even on leases. BMW's current pile of garbage would sit on the lots and rust if not for BMW HQ borrowing money so fobs can drive around interest free."

Oh please, you know that it's because of the crappy economy. "Pile of garbage?" Are you calling the best performance/luxury car for under $100K a pile of garbage? If you drove one you'd have your foot in your mouth.

oh huu.

stop with all your twisted data.

BMW makes 50% more PROFIT than toylex per car ($3100 vs. $2100).

BMW sells 3.5 times more cars than lexus per year (300,000 vs. 1.1MM).

BMW and mercedes command far higher prices for comparable models (for example LS460 starts in low $60s, S-class starts in high $80s...plus mercedes hugely expensive options).

you can quote financing numbers and spout garbage all you want, doens't change facts.

None of your comments explain why BMW has no choice but to offer every conceivable incentive there is to get some fob or mamma's boy to get their parents to buy/lease them a BMW.

What did I right to give you that idea? That fact that the M3 brings sticker price and the IS-F is discounted near $500. BMW should decide who buys their cars? They are a car company the goal is to sell cars.



The E46's never needed any form of discount, even on leases.

How wrong you are. I was selling BMW from 2001 – 2006 I can tell the 3er had lease deals own to 1.9% interest and buy rates down to 3.9 in a strong economy.


what's on the rear doors of a 5-series that you don't find on most cars?

I assume your referring to the interlocking anchor system, which is on both front and back doors and most BMW.


if I'm not mistaken, the new M3s offer manu-matics.

You are mistaken. The BMW does has a state of the art 7 speed double clutch transmission which is a true manual transmission with an electronically controlled transmission that allows shifts fast than a human can make, with both auto and manual modes

What's the big fuss about? So it outsold a c63amg and m3 for one month and how long has is-f been out. Next month it could be c63amg outselling m3 and is-f. The thread is pointless and just blatant flame bait.

ISF sold more because of those narly faux floating exhaust tips!

Haha couldn't resist.

Lexus did a GREAT job on its first try and will be a force to be reckoned with in the next few product cycles.....but please with those retarded body panel exhaust tips, taaaaaaaaaaacky.

i'm sorry...were you talking again?

Right again huu76.

blah, blah, blah.

the bottom line: PROFIT. that's what matters. $3100 per car vs. $2100.

blah, blah, blah.

toylex = boring appliance.

your wrong again, Toyota offered 0.0% weeks before BMW.

A smart reaction by both companies to fight a weakening economy.

wow, you have way too much time on your hands.

Sucks knowing BMW is spiralling downward to compete against Hyundai, hence all the incentives and budget 1/2 series cars to steal away Accent buyers.

This comment makes you nothing more than a troll, and boring one at that.

apples to oranges huu.

PROFIT PER CAR is the number you can compare. $3100 per car at BMW vs. $2100 per car at toylex. please debate.

SHut UP!!!! and make the GS-F GS-F GS-F !!!!!!!!!

Lexus have sold more probably becauseits different, the type of person who is in that market of buyers has probably had a BMW and a merc before. Plus the Lexus offers everything (almost) as standard. Its looks are fairly pleasing and makes a great sound. That along with 8 speed auto, comfort, a lot of power and clever , but prolonged pre-marketting has done the sales figures no harm.

not to mention time in the shop considerations! lol!

huh!? thats what the article is about you moron! The sales figures!

If The Mercedes C63 And BMW M3 Sedan's Are SO Good, WHY Did the Lexus IS-F Outsell Them Last Month?

Blah blah blah for all tha comments above. Same ol comments, same ol BS.

SORRY, this is jus rediculous.

Buy each of those 3 cars and drive them 1 year each...than comment here. Thats tha only way to find out TRUTH!!!


G

So you read updates on this website for what reason?
That one comment renders automotive journalism fairly pointless, well done.

ste usux (ste u6), are you deaf, blind, or jus cant understand.
All i'm saying is, drive all 3 for long period of time and than post a comment how one is supperior to another. WELL DONE. hahahaha


G

RetarD...sorry RefuG

'thats the ONLY WAY TO FIND OUT'
And my point was we read articles like the ones posted on this very website and comment/debate, to gain a better perspective and understanding of which car is superior. You take it way to seriously by saying..

Blah blah blah for all tha comments above. Same ol comments, same ol BS.

SORRY, this is jus rediculous.

Buy each of those 3 cars and drive them 1 year each...than comment here. Thats tha only way to find out TRUTH!!!

Lighten up, let us have our debate. Go spit your dummy/pacifier out somewhere else.

Well from what you have said above, you sound like a typical "fan boii" How can you tell me IS-F is better than M3 (or vise-versa) if you never driven one...or for that matter both cars, you get what I'm sayin? No offense to you, but same ppl on here leave same comments favoring one brand over another without much knowledge...which is bias or fan boyish, you know?

"RetarD" hahahah, thats tha best you can come up wit? lol. That's SAD, man.

You lighten up! Let us have our debate. Lol. Maybe you didn't get much hughs as a kid, so you gotta vent out at me. AWWW, here here here, here's YOUR pacifier.
Hahahaha.


G

Because IS-F is a lot CHEAPER than C63 or M3.

Due to the economy, Lexus is offering really low APR + Pricing right now.

I chose to buy M3 DCT anyways.