Toyota Kills Diesel Contract And Dashes Plans For Small Diesel Vehicles

Oh give it up.

Keep in mind that the hybrid is still a pioneering technology, and the fact that it has already somewhat proved its usefulness and feasibility shows that hybrid technology isn't "ambitious but rubbish." (;

diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie..

LMAO!!!

Toyota already produces some of the worlds best diesels without this joint venture.

Despite the price disadvantage of diesels, both Toyota, Honda and everyone else is missing the boat on this one. These folks pushed ugly ass Hybrids on us when I didnt want one (and still dont) even though they are several thousands of dollars more per vehicle. If you just bring it and advertise you will convert folks over a period of time. My thoughts are that they really dont want to spend the money on PR.

I agree. Talk about short-sighted. First the Tundra diesel, now this. Dumb.

Governments should begin with some sort of Diesel promotion because its more environment friendlier effects, if clean diesels will be the global fuel of choice in the next 10 to 15 years. Also, carmakers would invest a lot more in making diesels more and more cleaner over time like the Europeans with their Euro4 compliant diesel engines in both cars and trucks.

Hey, I might have a reason to like Toyota...

Are you a masochist?

The overall environmental impact in producing a hybrid (mining and refining nickel for the batteries and uncertain way of disposing them) is much grater than a diesel vehicle. Why diesel is so much more in the US than gasoline - ask the government. Shell has a process now of refining diesel fuel from Natural gas (which we have plenty of) called GTL that emits less pollutants than the cleanest gasoline engine, including low NOx. All these politicians talking about making "change" and finding alternative fuels are whores! I apologias for the harsh word, as its usually not my style to use such language, but I've had enough political garbage. Why can’t they subsidize building Natural Gas Stations (as California does) as its very inexpensive for ca manufacturers to modify existing gas engines to work on Natural gas? If 50% of the cars driven in the US were clean diesels and Natural gas - that unlike hybrids are fun to drive and look good imagine the positive financial and environmental impact that would have?

liar

thetruth01 - Prove him wrong.

porschefan: total absolute load of crock. as long as we burn fossil fuels we are not being efficient or environmentally friendly or anything else

Pickens has the right idea. We use our own abundant, easily accessible resource as a mid-way to truly renewable energy. That resource could come in no better form than natural gas. Porschefan2 is also right. Not only is natural gas already being used in fleet vehicles across America which prove its viability, but also the technology need not be outsourced. And what do you know, the infrastructure is already there to support this! I'm with you DinamoR, fossil fuels are a thing of the past but why not make America's transition into renewable energy one which is less harmful to the environment than the status-quo as well as one which stimulates the American economy?

I have nothing more to add but simply a verbal expression of agreement with T. Boone Pickens and 3.14159... That is such a nerdy name..

Porschefan2:

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The overall environmental impact in producing a hybrid (mining and refining nickel for the batteries and uncertain way of disposing them) is much grater than a diesel vehicle
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"However, emissions of the pollutants and CO2 resulting from vehicle manufacture and end-of-life are small compared to those resulting from vehicle usage"

Source: "An environmental-economic evaluation of hybrid electric vehicles: Toyota's Prius vs. its conventional internal combustion engine Corolla", Laster B. Lave (professor of economics), Heather L. MacLean (assistant professor, civil engineering), Chapter 2 "Method", page 2 of the publication

So if costs of manufacturing and disposing are miniscule when compared to energy costs of driving and meanwhile, when being driven, hybrids:
- burn less of less-energy-dense fuel than diesels (so are overall much more energy efficient)
- pollute less (Bluetec Mercedes Benz E 320 CDI still can't meet emission regulations in 10 states)
- most importantly, pollute less in most populated areas like cities because in stop'n'go traffic hybrids perform best
your point is just plainly wrong and you lie to people here. Why?


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Why diesel is so much more in the US than gasoline - ask the government.
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I'd rather ask lorry drivers who deliver food so that you don't starve. I'd ask train drivers who hauls millions of tons of good stuff so that shelves in your local mall are not empty. All of them need diesel. If you switch cars to run of them, price pressure on this fuel will only make it (and everything else since no lorry runs on petrol) more expensive.


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Shell has a process now of refining diesel fuel from Natural gas (which we have plenty of) called GTL that emits less pollutants than the cleanest gasoline engine, including low NOx.
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This will make this fuel even more expensive. Every process like gas-to-liquid or coal-to-liquid is much more complex (thus costs more) than simply refining crude oil and all you get is a diesel witj emissions as low as an ordinary, clean petrol engine.

By they way, why should I go to great efforts and made diesel from natural gas if I can burn this natural gas in a hybrid, get even better overall fuel economy and pay less for it since no processing will be necessary?


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as its very inexpensive for ca manufacturers to modify existing gas engines to work on Natural gas?
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A moment ago you wanted to make diesel of it.


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diesels and Natural gas - that unlike hybrids are fun to drive and look good
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2007 Lexus GS 450h (a large executive car that can take four or five in comfort)
0-60: 5,6 sec
observed MPG: 22
2007 Porsche Cayman (which is a small sports car that can only take two)
0-60: 5,8 sec
observed MPG: 24,2

Source: Edmunds Insideline full tests of these two cars

thank you downtoearth. I personally felt no need to argue the lies, as I have done so ad nauseum in the past. Thanks for the back-up.

I'll just add the nickel mining for batteries is miniscule compared to the nickel mined for everything else. Ever hear of a little something called stainless steel? look it up.

many have 'bought' that story about how UNgreen the prius is because of the supposed DIRTY, open pit nickel mine somewhere in canada.

that was a bit of shoddy 'yellow journallism' by a college KID writing for a SCHOOL PAPER. using photos decades old! (the mine has since been cleaned up)

even the kid author has since disavowed his tenets in that article.

It makes sense. No matter how over engineered the toyota diesel engine no one will buy it as there is about a 95cent premium over 87. Its partly for the government compensates for the better gas mileage making the diesel engine pointless. So you are basically punished for using a better alternative.

Scratch partly I ment mostly.

Toyota has plenty of diesel engines already both in Europe and Asia. If the US market were flooded with diesel engined cars and trucks, I would think that diesel fuel prices will go down eventually because here in Asia, Diesels are cheaper since all trucks, SUVs, Pickups, Minivans, Tall wagons are 90% diesel engined.

What people forget though..

Diesel is already much more expensive than Gasoline. A massive increase in demand for diesel would just hike up prices for diesel, and massively drop prices for gasoline.

Think... since only about 9gallons of diesel come from a barrel of oil... and about 22 gallons of diesel come from that same barrel. Without renewable/alternative sources of diesel, more oil would be processed in order to produce diesel, producing a surplus of gasoline, making gasoline incredibly cheap, etc.

As a nation, we can't let the bio-petroleum, algae biodisel and cellusic ethanol companies die due to the current low prices of energy.

**about 22 gallons of gasoline....**

Sorry for typo

Does no one see what is happening here?

Its called 2007 and 2010 diesel emissions regulations. Hell, Caterpillar has pulled out of the on-road diesel market. Mercedes E320 diesel has EPA deficiencies (for which Mercedes just pays a fine.. which they can easily afford).....

The 2006 diesel reg's were more than enough. They didn't require a DPF, and the emissions were something like 1/15-1/100 the emissions of a diesel engine in the early 1990s.

Instead of focusing on the most logical solution for diesel engines (improving engine-out emissions), the goverment decided to impose ridiculous regulations that require thousands of dollars in equipment per vehicle, and massively adds to warrant costs.

Funny how GM wanted to bring a small diesel engine to the US (go figure which American Opel it was going into), but decided it was going to be cost prohibitive.

Funny how Acura/Honda has decided NOT to bring a 4cyl diesel to the USA, specifically citing absurd diesel emissions regulations.

Once again, government listening to ignorant, un-educated environmentalist extremists proves to harm technology and industry.

I believe that the statistic you quote is taken out of context (regarding how many gallons of gas or diesel come from a barrel of oil).

Here is a correction:

One 42 gallon barrel of crude oil makes about 20 gallons of gasoline, plus 9 gallons of fuel oil, plus 4 gallons of jet fuel, plus about 11 gallons of other products, including lubricants, kerosene, asphalt, and petrochemical feedstocks to make plastics.

Obviously, the exact yield of each product is dependent upon the particular refining technique employed as some methods produce more or less of a certain product depending upon market needs.

Why not just bring the European EURO4 compliant diesel vehicles in the US? Its a start and the most cost efficient way of converting to clean fuel.

US diesel emissions Regs are tighter than Euro4.

It's all BS... then the environmentalist nazis & michael moore berate detroit for not having diesel passenger cars.

001,

You gotta kill those video advertising modules that pop-up in this site. If you by-accident click on one they stick around until you go to another page. Even clicking the "x" does NOTHING! All that is accessible is moving the ad, but that does nothing to ease the annoyance. They are ridiculously annoying and may turn away new customers. Me? I will stick around but, they may tick off the "next" guy. You gotta find an alternative to this for the advertising companies.

Mike.

The hybrids we have now are only half way and don't get the economy to justify the extra costs, I would rather drive an unreliable diesel Jetta than drive a Prius, the Jetta is better on fuel on the highway and has way more room and substantially more power than the prius.

If US diesel emission reg are tighter than Euro 4, its BS. Feds just don't want diesel to thrive in the US.

Less gas tax!

Exactly!

I believe that the statistic quoted above was taken out of context (regarding how many gallons of gas or diesel come from a barrel of oil).

Here is a correction:

One 42 gallon barrel of crude oil makes about 20 gallons of gasoline, plus 9 gallons of fuel oil, plus 4 gallons of jet fuel, plus about 11 gallons of other products, including lubricants, kerosene, asphalt, and petrochemical feedstocks to make plastics.

Obviously, the exact yield of each product is dependent upon the particular refining technique employed as some methods produce more or less of a certain product depending upon market needs.