Which GERMAN Company Has The BEST Current Lineup And Future Roadmap, Audi, BMW or MB?

I have a friend who also serves as a mentor to me who has told me on several occasions, "...a business plan is what you present to get money, but once you have the money, the plan typically goes on the shelf to start collecting dust."

There is a lot of truth to that statement. 

Granted, intended to be a road map for business the plan typically cannot take into account every situation a business encounters in real world situations which require human interaction to solve.

With the news delivered this week of the almost 18 billion dollar "loan" (read gift) given to US automakers, I wonder how long it is until this global economic meltdown hits other big car makers across the globe.

Specifically lets focus on the Germans.

High end German cars.  Companies whose business plans rely on those with money, or who like to pretend they have money.  Companies whose cars serve as status symbols that allow their customers to let the rest of the world know they have arrived.

BMW, Audi and Mercedes-Benz.

A story we covered here this week at AutoSpies.com suggested the need for a merger at some point in the not so distant future of Mercedes and BMW for survival.

I am not sure we need to get that drastic, but lets take a look at which German company truly does have the best current lineup, and the best mix of new product in the pipeline for the next 3-5 years.

BMW, Audi and Mercedes all have some great product currently.  Although we are all guilty of lining up the different makes and insisting they are true competitors to each other, the fact is they really do appeal to different segments of the market even if price wise they are similar.

So looking at what is currently offered by BMW, Audi and Mercedes along with taking a peek into the future of what we KNOW is coming out of these makers, who do you think is best positioned to not only weather the downturn, but to come out on top?

Readers were quick to criticize BMW earlier this year when a massive write down was taken by the company due to residual values that were much higher than the actual market values of off lease vehicles.  This write down was quickly accompanied by low finance rates however I still see a lot of advertising from BMW promoting heavily subsidized leases.  Will this ultimately help or hinder BMW?

Mercedes like BMW has taken part in the subsidized lease approach, but mainly on their entry level C-Class models.  Across the board subsidized leasing isn't the formula used to move cars at most MB dealers, however low interest rate financing has been in play for most of this year.  Of course Mercedes is also straddled with the stigma of Chrysler, and with the pending implosion there, Mercedes still could be hurt by the outcome of Chrysler as they still own a portion of the failing American company.

Audi has dabbled in a little of everything to help move product offering subsidized leasing rates as well as low finance rates.  The big advantage Audi brings to the table is the fact that it is part of a much larger family of cars with very deep pockets.  This fact alone helps to cement the future of Audi as well as guaranteeing a continual product flow as platforms will be shared with other offerings.

The big determinate throughout will be product.

All three have some great products right now.  This isn't a fan boy issue, this is a statement of fact.  All three have some great products that appeal to a very broad spectrum of buyers, and for the most part choosing from the current offerings will not leave the buyer unsatisfied.

But what about the future?

Audi is offering supercharged V6 engines in place of V8's, BMW is bringing diesels to the US and Mercedes recently introduced us to the newest generation of their diesel offerings.

Obviously the effects of $4 gas hasn't been lost on the Germans, however will they be prepared to answer the needs of consumers when and if (and I think it is more when, not if) the next crisis hits.

Of course expensive gas isn't the only concern.  Consumers are a finicky bunch, is the product currently in showrooms and in the pipeline the right product for the right time?  It won't matter how good it is if people won't buy it.

A couple good examples are the Mercedes CLS and BMW X6.  The CLS was an instant hit when it first came to market, but it quickly faded into obscurity as fads often do.  The X6 as well makes a strong fashion statement, but will it wear well - and if not what comes next?

Agent 001 has struck up some pretty good conversations with his CEO stories of late, I am not asking you to be CEO, I am asking for an executive level summary of which manufacturer is best positioned through product and planning to come out of the global economic meltdown stronger and healthier.  And since product IS the driving force, a full analysis of that product is in order to make final judgment.

Are you up to the task?

More importantly, are BMW, Audi and Mercedes up to the task?

We'll let you decide that.

Agent00J - 12/20/2008 9:46:48 AM

+6 Boost

The thing to remember about Audi however is the relationship with VW and their MONEY. That makes Audi rise to a level that BMW and Mercedes can't simply because of such a broad range of product allowing a lot of platform sharing and development costs that the other 2 must shoulder by themselves.

-00J

pchera01 - 12/20/2008 9:53:01 AM

-3 Boost

at lest in North America BMW and MB don't need to worry about it. But Audi is not doing great here and rest of the world they are doing good. so there is good possibility they all stay okay

JRobUSC - 12/20/2008 9:53:18 AM

+6 Boost

actually I think Audi is best positioned of the three. Because they don't sell that much in the states, but are huge globally, they didn't get hurt nearly as much as BMW and Benz did when the U.S. economy took a nosedive. They also get to share resources with VW (now Porsche/VW I guess, which is even better) and everything else under the parent umbrella, which is huge. A chassis tuned by Porsche with a Lamborghini engine and Audi styled exterior and interior (and price) sounds pretty good to me.

I don't know about the future products, the biggest issue I see with Audi is they're determined to come out with about a million new models in the future, and I don't know how much need there is for some of them (specifically why they'd come out with an R3, R4, and R6 to complement the R8 -- how many coupes do you need???). Hopefully they don't stretch themselves too thin with models, because what'll happen is cannibalization between them. Other than that, the only thing I'd ask is to not make every vehicle look like every other vehicle. Most of the time I have to look twice, or see the car from the side, to figure out whether I'm seeing an A4, A6, or A8.

DogLb - 12/21/2008 1:17:21 PM

+6 Boost

to answer question...IMO - all have a chance to contineu their success:
1a) BMW - independent company; seems the most willing to try new things. Plus has a range of products which consumers seem to buy more of. Notice the quirky styled 5 and 7 bcame their best selling iterations of those cars.
1b) Merc - has the brand cache and the following of legions of well-to-do. Plus, a car lineup which sells well world wide. Smart is also picking up a lot of fans in the US
1c) they'll always have their piece. Although their AWD advantage has slipped with BMWand MB adding it to just about all of their lineup (not a bad thing to copy). Plus as others have noted, Audi has the $$$ from VW and Porshe and can share costs with innovative product. Their world acceptance (not so much in US compared to other two) will keep them relevant.


BY THE WAY CHUCK, I drive an Infiniti M35 which doesn't get that great of gas mileage with the VQ. My previous BMW 330 convertible got better gas mileage with it's "inferior" in-line 6. Sorry dude, the BMW engine has the best balance of power and fuel economy - not to mention the current turbo setups are just awesome. To paraphrase you, I know, I've driven both

Audiphile - 12/22/2008 10:38:22 PM

+1 Boost

You have some very good points, JRobUSC, especially your observation about some of of the new Audis looking a bit too much like each other.

100tnega - 12/20/2008 10:50:18 AM

-1 Boost

Audi without a question. Now if they could drop their prices a bit, they'd sweep the other two.

Merc & BMW are iconic prestige, but plagued with poor ownership experiences and falling resale value. Check autotrader.com. and you'll see they ain't the Rolex of automotive you used to be.

B7FAN - 12/20/2008 11:18:29 AM

+4 Boost

Audi is plauged with bad resell value also the A4 and A6 dont hold any weight after a couple of years because they are tied to VW and we all know how resale on a VW is. I think BMW has a better hand because they dont share anything with any other car company. they are independent no one owns them yeah they own other companies. BMW has the M Division which never fails when they bring out a M3,M5,or a M6 at this point. these M cars are always top handling cars have some of the best engineering to ever come out of germany and their process is always 2 steps ahead.

DieselRules - 12/21/2008 6:45:29 PM

0 Boost

"we all know how resale on a VW is"
Yes, the highest in the industry (including Toyota).
What kind of an idiotic statement is that?

PLEASE get your FACTS straight. Its amazing how many Japanese car-fans know nothing about German cars, their reliability, or resale.
Do all Japan-co fan-boys just get together to re-hash urban myths about German cars?

4x4rules - 12/29/2008 4:12:13 PM

+1 Boost

PORSCHE is the answer!

What was the question?

vman1013 - 12/20/2008 11:01:50 AM

+4 Boost

they'll all be fine. audi has to be careful not to dilute the brand by sharing too much with VW. but audi has an advantage now so let's see if they take advantage of it. the new a4 is kind of boring so i'm not sure they gain much share.

MB and BMW can sit tight and ride out the storm. I can't think of any strategic alternatives that make sense for them.

By the way, no used care resale values are holding up.

shabaru - 12/20/2008 11:03:17 AM

+1 Boost

really isnt for us to judge aint it?.... its the future.. so as of now all of these are personal opinions..... im personally an MB fan.... but not even i think MB is doing all that well....

2ndbimmer - 12/20/2008 11:49:15 AM

+3 Boost

At first, you would think Audi would have the best chance because of the parent company and so many brands across their board. But, look at GM, they have many brands and their platforms are shared, and what is happening to them? a bailout. Although, they do offer a very competetive product with agressive pricing for their target market. One thing that has concerned me about their future is their hedging mistakes. VW alone in 2003 lost over $1 billion due to poor investing.

BMW will always be strong and they are groing globally. they are minimizing producton for the US to keep residuals high and do not want to flood the market. they also have mini which is making good money right now. I give them a great chance because they are not trying to overextend themselves with too many brands and merging platforms.

mercedes, well, too many vehicles to choose from. has great prestige, but the next money generation isnt impressed. their parents are, just like what is going to happen to the corvette, 50-60 year olds like them, but who in their 20's cares about a corvette?

BMW

Wimmer - 12/20/2008 12:48:08 PM

+2 Boost

You're saying that the current generation of teenagers and young adults are not impressed by the current Mercedes lineup, right?

I think you're wrong. There are tons of teenagers and people who are fascinated with the Mercedes brand and desire to eventually own one.

Just because you live amongst BMW-oriented people doesn't mean that there is no love for Mercedes, Audi etc. out there.

Rsport - 12/20/2008 4:14:24 PM

+2 Boost

I think 2nd bimmer makes a good point. Mercedes Benz still makes excellent cars (albeit subpar quality issues in the last 5 years) but GENERALLY speaking(and I would like to stress this is a generalization) young people see Benz as the establishment and identify more with BMW and Audi.
Audi seems to be best positioned to increase market share as they are just recently being re-introduced to the American market in a substantial way in only the last 10-12 years. Their new marketing campaign coupled with their excellent products look to serve them well in the years ahead. Their only issue is to have a parallel campaign of marketing and increased production of their RS models (and not just introduce them at the end of a model generation) which would generate sales and stop people(particularly in America) comparing the S4 and the M3; the RS cars are BMW's M cars true competitors.

VISO - 12/22/2008 12:07:18 AM

-1 Boost

Dude, wake up. BMW is in big trouble. The Financial Times reports BMW will likely be the first automaker to seek EU funds to survive. They will have to merge soon.

EL34 - 12/20/2008 11:51:42 AM

+1 Boost

I'm worried about Mitsubishi :-(

ChuckG20 - 12/20/2008 1:40:30 PM

+8 Boost

Which is very relevant to a discussion of high end German brands.

cococo - 12/20/2008 12:16:37 PM

-4 Boost

"...I wonder how long it is until this global economic meltdown hits other big car makers across the globe."

AROUND the globe. A globe is not flat.

As for the question, I think that Mercedes and Audi have a lot of potential for improvement and growth. I think that BMW could very well slip, in terms of brand strength and vehicle popularity. I think the keys for all three will be brand strength and vehicle reliability.

Mercedes has a strong brand, but the vehicles have been unreliable and/or uninspiring, lately. If the company can fix the reliability problems and produce some head-turning designs, it can do extremely well in the future.

Audi can improve the reliability of its vehicles, and can do much more than Mercedes can to improve its appearance as a luxury brand. If it can do both of those things together, it can become very, very popular.

BMW currently makes reasonably reliable vehicles, and is pretty popular as a luxury brand. This gives it less room for improvement than Mercedes and Audi have. Also, some of the design trends that Bangle has introduced are starting to look dated. I think that BMW has the best current lineup, in terms of quality and design.

1. Audi
2. Mercedes
3. BMW

cococo - 12/20/2008 4:28:35 PM

-3 Boost

I'm right. Take your logical fallacy around to the other side of the globe.

cococo - 12/21/2008 8:08:28 PM

0 Boost

Nope. Your logic is flawed because the objects are not comparable.

Also, I don't appreciate your immature, insulting behavior. Stop it.

AudiNewEngland - 12/20/2008 2:12:18 PM

-4 Boost

I think BMW will always be strong. With enough fan-boys and insane lease offers, BMW will have a secure place in the future. BMW could produce the ugliest car with the ugliest interior and those people would still love it.

Mercedes will always be known as the pinnacle. Their reputation alone will surpass the benefits of their lineup. They also have a strong line up, though a bit diluted with many "useless" models like the G-class and CLS. I personally like them, but I don't think they particularly help the strength of the lineup.

Audi is not so lucky. They have beautiful cars, arguable the most beautiful in the class. They also have beautiful interiors and impeccable quality. However, without the reputation of Mercedes or the followings & payment offers like BMW, they will have a tough time.

Luckily,
Audi has VW. This assures that while their cars are priced higher then most of their competition, fully loaded, they will still be able to exist without selling a higher volume of cars. Another plus for Audi is that more and more people are becoming Audi fan-boys. Though nothing like BMW, most people can recognize an Audi as a competitor of BMW and Mercedes now, something that could not have happened 10 years ago.

Although I think Audi has the best lineup, I think that BMW and Mercedes have such a following and are such symbols of status that all 3 have secured themselves a place in the future.

mercuryguy - 12/20/2008 2:38:07 PM

+2 Boost

I think Audi has the most modern and compelling lineup coming.

But BMW wins for me soley on remaining RWD and 2 Wheel drive.

eric452 - 12/20/2008 3:38:57 PM

+1 Boost

Bavarian Motor Works

JRobUSC - 12/20/2008 9:03:02 PM

+5 Boost

"If your volume is 1 million cars a year, what happens when you pump out 1 million cars and have 600,000 used ones coming back in the same year?"

What do you do? Gee, I don't know, maybe you sell those 600k used ones, and then next year try to sell 1.1 million new ones. That sound logical enough for you? No? What if it were about ToyoLexus instead of BMW, would that make it better? Because they have just as many used cars to sell as BMW does, at least here in the states (the only place on earth Lexus sells in large volumes).

You realize the phenomenon you described applies to EVERY SINGLE BRAND, right? Not just BMW? When you sell new cars, you end up with used cars, and when you sell a lot of new cars, you end up with a lot of used cars. Were you expecting some kind of different result? Like maybe cars that just disintegrate into dust after a few years? Take off the anti-BMW goggles for a second, kiddo.

motor1 - 12/20/2008 8:52:40 PM

+2 Boost

I can't decide between BMW & Mercedes so:
1 - BMW
= Mercedes-Benz
3 - Audi

All of Audi's competition manage to better the Audi model. I would choose an S-Class over the A8, I would choose a 5 Series over the A6, I would choose the C-Class over the A4 (arguable), I would choose the 1 Series over the A3 and I would choose the X5 over the Q7.

The only competition area where Audi excels in is the CLK-Class & 3 Series area - the A5 is truly brilliant. And the R8 is very good, even though it kind of doesn't have that much competition. While I would choose a C-Class/3 Series over the A4, the A4 is still arguably as good. So, most of the time, BMW and Mercedes or both manage to better the Audi competition.

E36er - 12/21/2008 12:03:16 AM

+1 Boost

1 BMW
2 Audi
3 Merceceds

Although Audi has made great strides in improving their line up and products BMW still edges them out in product quality. Audi still uses sub standard plastic and parts from the VW bin. The feel of the turn signal arms in the new TT are terrible. They feel very cheep and flimsy compared to the BMW's standard lot. 20 years ago Merc. would have been at the top of my list. Merc's line up is a joke. The designs look "Korean" and the quality is way down with the exception of the new S class...maybe.

1evlaudi - 12/21/2008 12:31:25 AM

-2 Boost

I have to say, over the years reading posts on this web-site I have read some crazy, stupid, ignorant, silly, funny, sarcastic stuff but this has to take the cake.
Some of you guys are the best, I swear. I don't know if I should laugh or cry.
Are you that stupid? Really?
And "Mr sailor" you are just the icing on the cake.
When is it that BMW introduced direct injection in their cars? Would you mind providing us with a link to this great innovation by BMW? Please.
Audi
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NSU.DE
BMW
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=bmw.de
Daimler
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=DAI.F

The question asked by agent001 was more about the ability of one brand to survive the current storm. Not about "fanboism' and this brand does this for me and this brand is my favorite and all the crap that you are spewing.

So, how about you stop being so called expert and you stop trying to convince us that "your" brand is better or that the C-class is better than this or that. Because, really what do you know? Have you even driven all those cars that you are talking about?
What are your criteria of judgement? Style, handling, performance, safety. convenience, customer experience, initial quality, reliability, safety, technology, fit and finish, innovation, racing heritage? I mean really, when you blurb out some statement; is it the truth? Is it a fact? Is it in your imagination?

Anyway, I had a good laugh reading your comments.

MpoweredAZ - 12/21/2008 3:21:49 AM

+3 Boost

You know, having read all this "fanboism" (thanks 1evlaudi for your sooo unbiased comment) it is interesting to see that no one actually mentions anything regarding driving experience or cost of ownership. Over the past few years, my fam and I have gone through seven BMWs (328,325,z3,x5,528,525,320), four Benzes (ML430, E350, C230, E320), and 2 Lexus (rx330, es300). Currently still own both lexus, 06 x5, and 07 525.

That said, Lets start with quality/reliability
I have had zero, repeat zero problems with all of the bmws, the biggest headache i had was a brake light issue on a '98 328i at around 100k miles.
The Benzes get a zero for reliability/quality. all three had experienced the exact same problem of the stepper motor going bad on the ac. the c class has a serious belt tension issue. overall between all the repairs needed and the unneccesary pricing and attitude at benz dealerships, i will never buy another benz!
Even the two lexus have not been as reliable as the bmws, even though they are very good.

Moving on to cost of ownership.
BMWs have zero out of pocket expenses other than gas and tires. all maintenance/service issues are covered, they provide you with a wonderful brand new bmw loaner car, and someone from bmw north america calls within one week to ensure you had a phenomenal experience.
Benz had this same program for a while ( i think audi too but not sure) but scrapped it after a few years because of the massive reliability issues with their cars. Nothing sux more than dropping $500 for service on a one year old benz when your friends with bmws dont pay anything

As for gas mileage
I recently took a trip from phoenix to tucson in the 525, and over 120 miles i was able to average 36.7 mpg. i know everyone who reads this is going to blast that as false but just ask anyone with a latemodel bmw who uses cruise control what kind of gas mileage they get. there was even a video of the diesel 5 series compared to a prius and the bmw got better miles. even the x5 gets atleast 23 mpg on the freeway (again cruise control is key).

How about shear driving pleasure?
the audi is a numb driving vehicle. save for the rs and some s models, there is no fun in driving and audi. the feeling one gets from driving an a4 is no differnt than that of a jetta.
BMW exudes fun and confidence in terms of driving. there is a standard sport mode on any auto bmw, and can really jazz things up. Even on the perfomance lines (amg, m, rs/s), audi and benz may have cars that put out massive hp numbers, but in terms of overall package, affordability!! (compare price of m3 to c63 or rs4) and everyday driveability (free maintenance on bmws) there is no comparison.


add it up, bmw wins, bias on unbias

Thats

MpoweredAZ - 12/21/2008 3:58:22 AM

+2 Boost

sorry but i forgot to mention the efficient dynamics

BMW has made far more stride in ecotechnology than most other companies. Has anyone seen the bmw hydrogen seven commercial? ready for the world when the world is ready for it! (youtube it if you havent seen it, it really embodies the letter and spirit of bmw better than any sabre rattling on this site) BMW has been hydrogen ready with their seven series for over five years now, when was the last time you heard of any other car company whose flagship cars only emmision is water?
BMW has been designing reclycleable cars for the last decade, allowing for quick and efficient recyling of parts given their innnovative designs (By using recyclable synthetics, a reduced range of materials, and careful separation of different materials). In praise of their continued and ongoing efforts in sustainability, BMW group has been placed among the leaders on the Dow Jones Sustainability Group Index, the world's most important list of sustainability-oriented companies.

and finally on to efficient dynamics

http://www.goodcleantech.com/2008/03/bmw_beats_prius_in_mpgs.php

this is for those who were in disbelief of my assertion in my previous post about an efficient dynamics bmw beaitng a prius in mpg.

the main problem in developing sustainability in the auto world is that everyone focuses on hybrid or electric cars. someone above mentioned the uselessness of lexus hybrid, which is true. their hybrids get subpar mileage, even using figures lexus themselves provide. most people assume a hybrid yields about 60 mpg, not true. most prius drivers report actualy getting aboutt 40 mpg. Efficient diesel is, atleast for now, the key to sustainability in terms of mpg. both mercedes and bmw have nearly perfected this using efficient dynamcics and bluetech. bmws use of regenerative braking and other power saving features synergized with stellar diesel engine design means great mpg, and great perfomance. this speaks volumes of bmws R and D, and in my opinion will be the factor tipping the scale in their favor from benz. where is audi's hybrid/electric/diesel/hydrogen car?

One last comment to really drive the nail through the coffin. if audi has such wonderful cars with such modern and elegant designs, why are they constantly redoing their cars? the a4 has been through three massive body changes while the three and c class have had one and a half in that same time frame. i have heard audi plans on introducing about 15 new models in the next few years. diversification is good but too much is most certainly overkill. How is loyalty every going to be built ( i think most would agree that given bmw/benzes historic and lengthy prestige, not just prestige post 1990,they have much better brand loyalty than audi) When audi continually redoes their cars, what are the people with outdated body styles left to think? not to mention residual values dropping quick because of so many new body styles. also, if so many new m

MpoweredAZ - 12/21/2008 2:49:09 PM

+3 Boost

ChuckG37, please explain why efficient dynanics is a joke. you seem to be developing a pattern of bmw bashing without any ryhme or reason or logic behind your assertions. Nowhere did i say MB lacks eco technology, i actually mentioned and praised their use of bluetech. as for audi's diesels, ya a 12 cylinder q7 diesel, really great for the environment, especially with the astronomical price tag that comes with it.

If you really want to see how much of a joke lexus/toyota, just look at the price premium u pay for the hybrid version (ie rx350 price vs rx400h price) it is a lot! mb and bmw diesels have a very tiny (maybe like a thousand dollars more) premium over their petrol partners

MpoweredAZ - 12/21/2008 4:12:05 AM

+3 Boost

models are being introduces, most of it is likely going to come from vw, no bueno. the audi consortium is able to introduce so many cars so often because of the bastardization across their lines. look at the difference between bentley and rolls royce. prior to 98 they were the same company producing pretty much the same cars, save for brand monkers and names, ie bentleys flying b and rrs spirit of ecstasy hood ornament. post 98 bmw took ownership of rolls and vw of bentley. if you really wana compare the audis best to bmws best, line up a flying spur next to a phantom and think to yourself, which one would i rather have? sit inside a bentley and its even worse. vw completely bastardizes their lines in typical gm/ford/chrysler fashion by using parts bin items in bentleys. the transmision shifter and surrounding fascia and nav head units on bentleys are the same as those found in vw. the key fobs on bentley/lambo/audi are all the same as vw and quite outdated. they have mimicked the switchblade rectangle design mercedes pioneered for the 1990 sl and 1992 s class (sweet back then, ridiculous now, i live in scottsdale and back when mercedes used to use them on the ml's they were lovingly referred to as scottsdale swtichblades because of the popularity of the m class when it debuted a decade ago here). quite old outdated and out of fashion when placed next to the sleek offerings of a bmw lexus infinit or mercesdes key fob, even nissan offers a nicer standard key fob on their bottom of the line versa! the flying spur hardly even protrudes bentley confidence, most cannot even readily identify it as one, typical vw/audi problem. the phantom/drophead coupe on the other hand are unmistakeable, even for those who know not of cars. the phantom commands attention even from a distance and is easily the most standout sedan on the road.
take a step back and look across the vw empire, it becomes clear where the top brass' passions lie: porsche, they produce the only cars that can outdue the competition (except for the cayenee, which is bastardized across audi/porsche/vw)

DieselRules - 12/21/2008 7:12:32 PM

-3 Boost

I agree with MOST of what you say.
But stylistically, the BMW RR is a cartoon of a car most desired by crack-smoking hip-hop artists.
Recognized by a distance, yes, as the world's most fugly automobile!
The Bentley Continental is even more sensuous than the cars it replaced.
But RR is copying the Lincoln Town-Car ... what's with that?

ubercool - 12/21/2008 5:39:53 AM

+1 Boost

This has to be the most boring subject ever, is this website now called autonerds.com instead of autolies.com???

DieselRules - 12/21/2008 7:04:48 PM

0 Boost

All 3 will survive.
All 3 also contribute massively to the global pool of Auto technology.

The only other comment I can add is for anyone who suggests Audi or VW is in trouble. Consider these facts:
Before the global crisis, VW globally was building 1 million vehicles a month, with profits over 1 Billion USD per month.
Since the economy was hit, VW sales are down less than 10% ... they performed 2nd to Toyota financially before and are probably stronger than Toyota now (dynamically, not total cash-in-the-bank) ... and #1 in the world.
Those are simple facts.
So obviously VW Corp will come out better than any other automaker.

1evlaudi - 12/21/2008 8:59:30 PM

0 Boost

mr sailor,
those links are related to Agent001 post, but it would be difficult for you to realize this since your "fanboism" blinds you. For a company to survive an economic crisis, they need money in the bank, and a strong market share value is "money in the bank". Read the articles on the net, from experts saying that in order to survive, M-B and BMW might have to merge with each other or with somebody else.
I will tell you that anybody who says that Audi is lucky to have VW is an ignorant; as for the past few years VW was lucky to have Audi, as Audi was bringing the majority of the yearly profit for the VW group.

Like it or not, here, it is not about the product, it is about the reality of economics, and it this case Audi is in the best position.
Their loss in sales this year is modest compared to other brands in the HIG in the US. They are still going for the million car mark(worldwide) that was announced early this year. And profit should be just as expected.
They are increasing their line-up for next year, BMW is cutting production for the US by 44,000 units. They are still building exclusive dealerships, they are the most improved brand in customer experience in the US according to JD powers, Audi/VW bank has plenty of money because they did not play the BMW game and loss $700 in the first 3 quarters this year like BMW.

This is not being a fanboi, those are facts that you and everybody can find on the net.

So stop crying, M-B was great in the 80's, BMW was great in the 90's and in all honesty, Audi's time has come. They are highly viewed and respected in Europe, it is time that Americans realize that quality, technology, engineering, value, fit and finish, safety, handling (yes, as Road and track says, the new A4 3.2q out handles the 335i), innovation all belong in an Audi and that when times are tough and you want your money to count for something, then the car that has truly the most overall value is the Audi.
All the rest are just marketing gimmicks and slogans.
But as a car manufacturer, one has to decide where they want to put their money the most; Audi puts their money in the cars, BMW and M-B seem more interested to put more money in marketing and financial incentives.
How long can they last before the truth catches up with them?

VISO - 12/22/2008 12:44:47 PM

-1 Boost

I'm from Europe as well, and please do not tell me or try to fool everyone here in believing the 3-Series is not exclusive ine Europe. It's a runnabout that is about it. Audi controls 50% plus of the Avant luxury market in Europe easily. The 3-Series is nothing special in Europe so come on seriously don't give us that bunk exclusivity crap. The A8 and the A6 outsell the 7-Series and 5-Series in Europe on a regular basis. The 7-series is no where seen as exclusive as compared to the A8 and the S-Class in Europe or in Germany. So, yes we can do this all week long if you like.