The SPIES Want to Know: What Are the Things That Make a Car Salesperson Good OR Bad?

The SPIES Want to Know: What Are the Things That Make a Car Salesperson Good OR Bad?
The men and woman who sell cars across this country get a bad rap.  The butt of many a joke, the profession as a whole has been dragged down by more than its fair share of people who should have never been salespeople to begin with.

The fact is, a good salesperson can make a great income selling cars.  The successful ones treat it as a career striving to learn the products and understanding the premise behind customer service as they strive to serve their customers and their needs.

But what is it that makes a salesperson successful?

I have bought more than my fair share of cars throughout the years, and I like most of you have had both good and bad experiences.

For me there have been 2 salespeople who not only went above and beyond, but have continued to do so multiple times earning the Holy Grail of cars sales, a repeat customer.

Knowing and understanding the needs of the customer has to be #1 in my opinion when it comes to sales.  Several years ago I was looking to buy a new car and my wife and I were having a bit of trouble coming to an agreement as to which of 2 almost identical cars to buy.  As we left the dealer I told the sales guy to prep the car I wanted stating I would be back tomorrow to buy it, however he knew that my wife and her opinion would prevail and he went ahead and actually prepped the other car.

The following day I called the dealer and told the salesperson that we had decided to choose the other car.  He chuckled telling me he thought that as well and he had gone ahead and prepped the car and that it was waiting on the showroom floor.

He has since assisted in 2 other vehicle purchases including my current car.  His approach is low key and low pressure allowing customers to make the decision serving more as a source of information than a shark looking for the next kill.  The ability to listen and learn the needs of the customer is paramount in earning the respect and eventual business, fundamentals which apply across the board.

Of course we don't make a big fuss when we receive lousy service at other places, it is almost expected when venturing into a big box store.  What makes car sales special is the fact that it is not an everyday occasion.  Most people only buy a car every couple of years, and given that fact when a good or bad experience occurs we are quick to tell our friends.

So how about you?  What things do you look for when buying a car?

What are some of the good or bad experiences you have had when buying a car?

And is there a person you return to based on the quality of service received?

And since we know there are a few car sales people on here, why not share some of your secrets to success with the rest of us.

I'll leave you with this...

A couple of years ago I went with my brother in law to buy his first car.  We had spent the weekend looking and he decided he was going to buy a Ford Focus SVT.  As this was his first new car purchase, he was obviously excited and honestly probably would have signed his name to just about any deal presented.  The sales guy could smell the score.

After literally dragging him off the Ford lot, we went to my house and did some research as to invoice, dealer hold backs and interest rates.  Ford was running a lot of 0% rates, however the sales person told us the SVT products weren't eligible for the 0% rates.

He was lying.

I put together some numbers including the monthly payment and said this is what the car should cost you.  The following afternoon we returned to the dealer, the salesperson figured he had baited the hook and reeled in the score.  We went to his cubicle and he immediately went for a credit application to which I told him that prior to that we needed to negotiate the price.

He agreed and was presented with the purchase price along with payments on the sheet I had written up for my brother in law.  The salesperson laughed and said that there was no way he could do that deal. 

I thanked him for his time, nudged my brother in law and proceeded to get up and started to leave.  He was surprised and insisted that he be allowed to try to make that deal.

He took the sheet and disappeared for a few minutes returning again stating that there was no way they could do the deal.

Again thanking him for his time, we got up and left the dealership.

We drove 5 miles to the next Ford dealer, and there parked right out front was the same exact Focus SVT.  Of course we weren't even out of the car before having a salesperson on us, I told him that my brother in law would purchase the Focus SVT parked in front of th dealership if they would do the deal I had written out.  Looking at the sheet of paper, he asked for 5 minutes and disappeared to a back office.

While he was gone, we took note of the fact that the car they had actually had more equipment than the car we were looking at at the other Ford dealer.  Within a few minutes the salesperson returned and stated that they would do the deal.

It took about an hour and a half to complete the deal and prep the car, but my brother in law drove away in the car he wanted with a deal that was great for him.

Perhaps it was the fact that the salesperson at the first Ford dealership laughed at the proposed deal, but we drove back to the first dealership and told the salesperson we got the deal we wanted. 

He was shocked and in disbelief.

It took showing him the bill of sale to make him believe we got what we wanted.

Laughing at a customer probably isn't a great idea, and in this case it lost a sale that was his to lose. 

In preparing for this story, Agent 001 reminded me, "...buyers are liars and sellers are storytellers."

There is a lot of truth to that statement, it is the true salesperson who is able to weed through to get to the truth.

So go ahead, have some fun and tell some of your stories making sure to tell the good and bad you've experienced.




DiamondJimDiamondJim - 12/21/2008 8:17:31 PM
+2 Boost
nice story mate.

recently i bought a car and was happy to see the salesman show me the Vehicle Inquiry Report breaking down all the numbers. the invoice was right about what i had seen on the internet so i suppose i had no reason to doubt him. bought 001's book too. couldn't find anything online about dealer holdback, so anyway i just took it for $250 over invoice which was reasonable since the car just came out.

i suppose being able to see the VIR with my own eyes including VIN number helped me think i was getting a good deal. i am satisfied, i just wish i knew of a place where i could get reliable dealer holdback information so i can negotiate even further. ;-)


Agent004Agent004 - 12/22/2008 12:14:36 AM
+1 Boost
Cough

DealerRater.com

Cough


RaulTRaulT - 12/22/2008 2:32:31 PM
+3 Boost
not everyone is trying to give cars away like the lame 3


EnnNorakEnnNorak - 12/22/2008 11:59:13 PM
+1 Boost
The best salesman in any industry is one who knows how and when to close the sale. I happen to be the buyer from hell, a guy who walks out when I don't get my way. I am fair though. I buy at bare cost plus $1,000 and I get to keep all incentives and holdback. Alternatively, I buy at cost plus $100 and the dealer keeps the holdback but I still get all incentives. I audit factory invoices and dealer cost sheets before signing and I cross-examine several dealers even before I select the dealer to make sure I get full disclosure.

My method works very well and cuts through all the BS. There is one sales manager in particular that I like because when he sees me come into the showroom, he immediately calls me to his office and offers to share all dealer cost information with me knowing that it is the only way he will close the deal.
The owner of a competing brand knows my method so well that he has sold me cars over the telephone.

I don't expect every consumer to go through the learning curve on this and I am strictly a cash buyer so the deal is neat and clean with no financing issues.


BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 12/23/2008 12:59:35 PM
+1 Boost
enn .. I happy to say you will never buy a BMW using that method ..


DiamondJimDiamondJim - 12/25/2008 1:14:50 PM
+1 Boost
Thanks ;-)


t_bonet_bone - 12/21/2008 8:29:10 PM
+3 Boost
For us car guys? Give us accurate information, be generous with test drives, get our orders right, and communicate frequently.

Bonus points for being a car guy and actually excited about your product.


PatronusPatronus - 12/21/2008 8:34:31 PM
-2 Boost
I have NEVER met a salesman that knows as much about the car I am interested than I do. NEVER. So starting with that fact, the relationship and all of the understanding customer's needs crap doesn't matter.

Also, a good salesman (that I have never met) should know exactly (or have a formula for) what each car on the lot or on order will sell for ... bottom line. This crap of asking the manager for an hour is pure, unadulterated BS.

I have discovered that buying over the internet (emailing a bunch of dealers in the same email for an RFQ) works wonders. You don't have to deal with idiots and you can do other stuff while you wait for the numbers. Plus, they know that you are asking multiple dealers so tend to give the most competitive bid they think they can afford.

I am done with car salesmen, I don't have a need for them.


BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 12/22/2008 2:47:08 PM
+5 Boost
BSBB .. just like we have little patience taking someone like you seriously. You are the type of person that would drive 50 miles out of your way to save $100 to $200 which makes no sense cause it would cost you at least that getting there. You know better than we do. great deal


NotjustlexNotjustlex - 12/22/2008 2:57:37 PM
+6 Boost
You internet shopping car buyers are the worst excuse for a human being I have ever seen. Shop three states to save $50 dollars. You are a waste of space.


BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 12/23/2008 1:02:07 PM
+1 Boost
BSBB . $ 200 or more and then you would go 50 miles out of your way to buy a car. How does that make any sense? I can understand $1,000. But for a few hundred? To each its own. That is why there are 33 flavors of ice cream


HelloKittyLexusHelloKittyLexus - 12/27/2008 1:39:07 PM
+1 Boost
Patronus,
You are sooooo totally riteous dude!!! OMG!!! I totally never need a salesman either! I can totally figure out how to program my most fave radio stations too! Good thing awesome peeps like you and I don't buy any real cars though, 'cause then we would need them to show us all the great new technology, explain and program the hundreds of options in our new cars to our liking, do things like take care of our service scheduling, get us loaners when none are available, and take care of our friends and family when they are in need. I would SO RATHER work with a stranger online 'cause you and I are cheap losers who can't afford to pay for the cars we actually want from people who won't put up with our cowardess of hiding behind a computer acting like a tough-guy.
Golly Patronus, you and I are just so much smarter than everyone else!!! Don't people get that instead of paying, you can be a cheap, pathetic piece of garbage like you and I and never get good service?!?! We can totally do everything ourselves! That way we can have an extra $.30 a day in our pockets! Now if we could only serve ourselves at restaurants...


ChuckG20ChuckG20 - 12/21/2008 8:36:03 PM
-3 Boost
My stripper girlfriend's monthly payments on her 1998 G20 are $970 a month. My waiter job at Stuckey's allows me to sustain a lease schedule for my 1990 M30 convertible.


AudiA6DrvrAudiA6Drvr - 12/22/2008 2:51:46 PM
-1 Boost
truth is most people dont know alot about the car they are buying, and therefore salesmen can sense that and that's when they whack people over the head and a make a crazy commission off of them. Guys like us, where we search and get obsessed, at least i do, find out every single detail there is to know about the car we like. When it comes time to see it and one of these greasy salesmen approach us, WE can sense that they dont know crap about the car and in return we see them as lying pieces of crap that dont know sh!t. I just bought a used car recently and the whole process went very smooth, the salesperson revealed everything i need to konw about the car, including that the engine was swaped, so i trusted him and in return i feel great about my purchase.


DoukasDoukas - 12/21/2008 10:46:55 PM
+9 Boost
Nice guy/salesman/order taker = Mini deal...aka...$100 voucher
Not so nice guy/Salesman (shark) = $$$ Fat voucher

Do you think it's right to earn $100 to sell $40K,$50K,$60K cars ? or do you think its better to earn $500,$600,$700 ?

Or another words....most sales people....not including internet/fleet people don't paid on back end products, like warranties, hi-jack, mop-n-glow, rate, holdback, incentives......they only get paid a percentage on above invoice..so if a salesman's pay plan is 25%.....$2000 over invoice is about $500....
Now...from reading, most you here seem like mooch's and, I want invoice,holdback,etc etc etc.... and then you wonder why so many salesman rotate from dealer to dealer...

So, if Im top salesman, sell 20 cars..and made $100 on each one...is that good money to you all ?

But then, I get to go for joy rides, test drives, act stupid and don't know how much a car is, teach you the buttons, see you grind me for free items like hats.shirts, oil changes,
Plus, the typical american shopper.... I need to start my 3 month process and test drive 15 different cars/brand..I want to test drive the one with leather, the one without leather, the one with Navi, the one without Navi....then....give you great service.great price..great everything, and still get torched on my survey because there was a hair on the floor mat.

Or......Wait for 10 idiots every month...who don't know anything about nothing..pay close over window sticker...and make about $500 on each car, have a decent month...and believe it or not...the ones that actually pay all the money for the car are the happiest people. Not you miserable invoice,check 50mile radius for $3 a month cheaper payment.

Thats my 2 cents.


Agent001Agent001 - 12/21/2008 11:13:55 PM
+2 Boost
Dude, you just threw some bloody red meat to the lions!

Can't wait to see the comments responding to this one!

001


2ndbimmer2ndbimmer - 12/21/2008 11:36:56 PM
+8 Boost
you are absolutely right. I cant imagine how many people on this site jerk themselves around for months to save $3 a month. is your time worthless? are you of no value? If you feel comfortable with the salesman and the price, get it. dont worry about saving $0.48.


A3DriverA3Driver - 12/21/2008 11:40:03 PM
+7 Boost
Doukas, I must say that you hit the nail right on the head. I sold cars for over 4 years, most of that time in luxury sales. Everything you said is 100% accurate.

The number of "enthusiast" customers is not that high. I would say that, at the most, 5% of people who come in are "car guys". Maybe half of them know what they are talking about and half of that half can actually afford the car.

The "Wal-Martization" of the car business has been brutal to salespeople and the economy. "Hey customer, wanna know why you're so buried in your trade? How about that rebate/dealer cash/0%/lease special/free hooker that was just put on the remaining 9999999 cars still the lots?"

I told a salesperson that was new to the busines that in 6 months he would hate people. He's a super nice guy and thought I was just being cynical. Sure enough, he comes up to me about 4 months after he started and said, "Man you were right! These people are starting to piss me off!"





RaulTRaulT - 12/22/2008 2:35:32 PM
+1 Boost
amen I'm with you on this one!


NotjustlexNotjustlex - 12/22/2008 2:53:17 PM
+5 Boost
You are exactly rigth. That is the best comment I have read to date on Autospies. The auto industy is the only retailer that you can go on line and cut all of the profit out of doing business. You can't see how much it costs to build a TV, or a House, or a Stove. You buy it becasue your research tells you it is a good product for the price. If a sales person is reduced to making nothing for his efforts of couse he wants to get thru the current buyer and move on to the next. That is why you have bad sales people. It is because the buying public forces him to cut every corner. Just because a person buys a car for 30,40,50,60k does not mean the sales person made more than a mini IE 100 to 300 a deal. Count how may that takes a month to buy a house, send a kid to college etc. If your business paid you only on profit and the margins were open to see for all of your customers how much do you think you or your business would make. How much better would you have to be at your job. That is part of the reason the auto industry is in the shitter. The public has too much information. The buyer is the one that makes it way too hard on themselves. It is not the sales person that makes it touch. The customers that say "I hate buying car because it is so hard and I have to do all of this work and go to all of these dealerships" Kiss my _ ss I have three words for you "sticker is quicker" I hate the jack ass that says I don't want to negotiate. If you don't want to negotiate then pay sticker. If you want a better price that that of course you will have to negotiate dip shit. Even if you get a great price right off that bat it is always that person that wants more. When you say give me your best price you want to negatiate from that point so guess what we will start at sticker and see what we can do. If you don't like that pound sand.


mscottc1mscottc1 - 12/21/2008 10:57:23 PM
+9 Boost
Great article & idea for discussion, 00J-- and 001, your statement is so true that it's frightening. After selling for 7 1/2 years now, having sold for the same company the entire time (starting with Fords, then Toyotas, now BMWs), I've had customers out-right lie to my face more times than I care to remember. Caring for what is my customers' best interests has been, I feel, a key factor in my success. That, and, I truly love what I do- not just the selling, but the cars & working with people. I am and have always been a complete car FREAK, so this is actually fun for me- still can't believe that I get paid to do it. I've always looked at car sales as relationship-building, not just making a sale. Many of my peers think I'm crazy when I tell customers sometimes that I don't think it's the right thing to do to buy a vehicle-- sometimes it ISN'T the right thing to do! I want to treat everyone I deal with exactly like I'd want to be treated- anything less I simply can't live with. So, agree or not, that's what I think sets me apart.

It never hurts to know what you're talking about with regards to your product and competition either- there are advantages and disadvantages to every single vehicle and you need to know how they will fit your customers' needs best so you can help them make the best decision to their long-term happiness.


toDD73toDD73 - 12/22/2008 1:44:06 PM
+6 Boost
If the customers talking their lying!!!


2ndbimmer2ndbimmer - 12/21/2008 11:43:04 PM
+3 Boost
I sell cars, BMW in fact, and the number one salesperson at my dealership knows nothing about the cars!! its all about price. I would be a millionaire for the amount of times I have heard, "thank you for being so nice, although the person at the other dealership was a jerk and knew nothing about the car, he beat your price by $xx"
it doesnt pay to be the nicest and most imformative person they never bought a car for.
For the people that get upset when a salesman has to go talk to their manager about price, i highly doubt you have never talked to your manager about a project or a deal before. its the way the business is structured.
there are good salesman and bad salesman, just like in any job, there are good employees and bad employees.
I feel it is about earning some ones respect and building a relationship. Like business in china, there must be an established relationship before a deal can even be done.
either way, its all about price.


0to600to60 - 12/22/2008 8:55:06 AM
+7 Boost
Im mad she still drives at that age.


2ndbimmer2ndbimmer - 12/22/2008 10:52:20 AM
0 Boost
what do you do for a living?


stash84stash84 - 12/22/2008 6:26:34 PM
0 Boost
"Cars salesman are the lowest scum of the earth even above cops."

that doesnt make any sense..

but yes, cops are horrible people that abuse their power and i consider them the lowest(not ALL of them )





DoukasDoukas - 12/22/2008 7:14:19 PM
+3 Boost
Car salesman are just people trying to earn a living. We all have rent/mortagaes to pay, car payments, etc...

Why you have to rain on her parade...if she is happy with her purchase..let her be. you are just jealous maybe ? not like she's going to take her money to the grave.


DieselRulesDieselRules - 12/22/2008 2:24:34 AM
+6 Boost
Interesting article ... something to think about. I have tons of experience buying used. But only bought new starting in 1992 and hold onto cars (still have the '92, and the '98) and have 2009 Jetta TDI Wagon custom-build arriving in January.

WHY I GO TO ONE DEALERSHIP OVER AND OVER:
Its not about the price.
I deal with the owner.
He goes to Germany at least once a year and drives the newest products, plus the concepts.
He knows what's the best out now, what is coming out, what to wait for, what to avoid.
He knows if there are any problems with any of the models and will explain those things in great detail.
(modern cars are more complex than the original space-shuttle ... anyone who thinks that any car model ever made is perfect is a complete idiot ... there are things that can be improved or made to last longer on every car)
He knows as much about the technical stuff as the mechanics.
When VW/Audi had a shin-dig in Vancouver promoting the latest "green technology" (latest TDI) he invited me and my wife to the event plus the private after-party with VW/Audi America's top people.
He can get cars that others can't.
He can pull orders forward in Germany or Mexico to accelerate delivery (jump the queue) which he's done on our current order.
He never says "that's not available/possible"
He always asks "what can we do for you?" and is sincere, and will do what it takes and has the pull within the company to get me anything I want.
Why waste my time talking to anyone else?


2ndbimmer2ndbimmer - 12/22/2008 10:55:10 AM
+3 Boost
It seems like you have a good relationship with the owner of that dealer. Very important.But, salesman are there because the owner clearly cannot handle every single customer that walks in the door.
Does a partner at a law firm handle every client? No, they should be mentors to the lawyers below them and help them make the best decision possible. Delegation.


RunamukkRunamukk - 12/22/2008 3:04:38 AM
+5 Boost
My next door neighbor just paid $49,000 for a 2008 328i sedan,and its not even fully loaded.Shes 72 yrs old and retired and i guess the salesman saw her coming a mile away.
Cars salesman are the lowest scum of the earth even above cops.

_______________________________________________________


If someone were willing to pay $49k for your 08 328i sedan are you saying you wouldn't accept it? because of your morals? Bullshit!!!!


caznable33caznable33 - 12/22/2008 5:08:23 AM
+6 Boost
I sell cars for a living and if you don't constantly try to remove yourself emotionally and remember that it's "just business" you can get very cynical and bitter about people real quick. I know it's a completely foreign concept, but Suffice it to say, much of the conflict and games that customers complain of experiencing would be completely avoided if, instead of trying to squeeze every last cent out a deal, they allowed the dealer to actually make a fair profit like any other retail product.

I'm not necessarily saying that one shouldn't ask for a discount here, but If you really think about it, how many other retail products are there where it's expected that one has to roll up your the sleeves and negotiate the price beyond what's listed? Would you walk into your local Sears, ask to see the invoice on a refrigerator, and then offer to pay less than cost? If you did, I'd imagine there would be a bit of a conlict in the conversation.

Often times it's not even really about the money, but that psychological victory of beating a dealer at negotiation the game. It would all be easier for everyone if we could just cut to the chase and provide our best price first, but customers expect to be put through the wringer, they need to feel like they've struggled and won before they will buy. If make it too quick, efficient and easy, they start wondering how much more profit there is and if they are paying too much.

What's strange is that people will spend hours grinding a car salesmen over $100 on the price of a highly sophisticated and engineered marvel of modern machinery, one that we entrust our very lives with on a daily basis, and then walk into a jeweler the next day and easily pay him thousands of dollars in pure profit on shiny bits of metal and rocks that have no practical use or application, without so much as thinking of asking for a discount. Next time I visit a Starbucks, I think I'll offer them 15 cents for a $4.00 latte, 'cause I know for a fact that it cost's them only 10 cents including the cup and that's waaay to much profit to make. And they even have the gall to have a tip jar at the counter....




BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 12/22/2008 10:54:56 AM
+4 Boost
star search - you are dead wrong! I sell BMW's and have a degree in business. I chose this field, cause at the time was living on my own and had to finish school. It was the best opportunity I had to make the most amount of money. I have been in the car business for 15 years ( 13 years with BMW ). I love the car business. Most of the time, the people are great that you meet. But then there are the mooch's and grinders, which you may be. You may be the kind of person that will shop about 4 dealers to save a $100 on a $50k car. That is your business and you may have alot of time on your hands. Personally, I would never waste 2 to 3 hours, to save $100.


15 minutes - since when does it take 15 minutes to do anything, and we are not talking about your love life. It takes more than 15 minutes to go for a test drive, get gas at a gas station, sit in McDonalds drive thru during lunch hour, etc ... To do a proper test drive, explanation of features and benefits, discussion of price structure and payment option, then delivery of the car most client advisors will spend about 2 to 3 hours. This doesnt even take into the account of follow up before and after the sale. I think your view on how much time goes into the sale of car is a bit skewed. But then walk in my shoes for a week, and you will find out.


caznable33caznable33 - 12/22/2008 1:17:17 PM
0 Boost
Dandy cat, you're contradicting your own statement. You say I'm comparing apples and oranges but then go on to state "Same goes for most goods produced". That is exactly what my whole rant has been about,thanks for agreeing with me!

The fact is except, for Porsche and Ferrari dealerships, most car dealers make a very poor profit margin on the cars they sell-customers won't let us. Most dealerships have a business model of virtually giving away a car in the sales dept and then making the bulk of the store's profits when you come back for parts and service.

So next time when you are paying $90/hr to get your A/C fixed, you should spend a few hours researching the true cost for labor and parts and offer to pay $100 over what you think that cost is, because that's where all the money is being made, and most of you pay it without a 2nd thought...

Just trying to get people to look at the situation from a different perspective and think outside of the box.



caznable33caznable33 - 12/23/2008 1:48:20 AM
+1 Boost
mmm... I just had the brakes done on my Honda, I think most would consider that a quality car, no? The fact is, most people (not all) will opt to do their scheduled tuneup services on a new car at the dealership they bought it from, at least while it's still under warranty. Yet the same person that wastes hours trying to save $100 on a car purchase doesn't even bother to think about the $85/hr in almost pure profit they are paying the service dept, cause a service technician sure doesn't get paid any where near that per hour.


jag30jag30 - 12/22/2008 7:37:09 AM
-5 Boost
Im looking for 09 Bmw x5 4.8 but so afraid to go to the dealership i want a good deal!


0to600to60 - 12/22/2008 8:54:04 AM
+5 Boost
y r u afraid?


2ndbimmer2ndbimmer - 12/22/2008 11:04:32 AM
+3 Boost
There are deals to be had. Why are you so afraid?


theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 12/22/2008 5:49:11 PM
+1 Boost
Juat drove the diesel Saturday, buy the pay the retail they're asking for the diesel and skip the 4.8. You won't regret it.


sogac6sogac6 - 12/22/2008 10:01:53 AM
+5 Boost
When you beat the dealer up for that $100 savings on the front end, you may think you've won the battle. They get you back when you decide you want to trade that vehicle in and tell you how little they will give you. People fight more on the cost of a vehicle than they do for their homes. Like others previously stated, you don't go anywhere else and offer less than sticker for anything you want. I believe the dealers should put whatever price they will take for the vehicle on the vehicle and that's it. No dickering. Fight over the APR for your loan. That's where many get stung. If you feel good about your purchase when you leave the dealership - then you got a good deal. With all the tools available to you these days, there is no reason to get stuck with a bad deal.

I deal with one person who I've bought 4 vehicles from. If I want a vehicle he doesn't sell, he will tell me that he doesn't mind if I go to another dealer because he can't match the deal. If he can, he will get me the vehicle and I will do the deal with him. I expect him to make some money from our deals. He has to eat too.


jselljsell - 12/22/2008 10:45:55 AM
+4 Boost
Well....as the 2 time reigning SPOTY at my dealership I would like to comment on this article. Auto sales is one of the VERY FEW industries where all of the information is a few clicks of a mouse away... invoice, holdback, dealer cash and so on. No other industry provides so much for the economy (gas stations, parts suppliers, dealer networks.etc) than automobile sales (see bailout). But with customers demanding to pay 0 profit, what is the industry to do. I know everything about my cars AND yours. I can give you 0-60 times for all of my competitors, stopping distances from 60-0 and crash ratings and show you how to use I-drive (i sell Acuras). Pricing is the main factor, whether you want to believe it or not. Why else would consumers be willing to drive 100 or more miles to beat an offer by 300 or more dollars. Salespeople can do their best, make you love the car and want to buy, then you go home and shop their price to 20 dealers and take the offer from someone else who has NO ties to you (probably never even met you until you go to pick up your "great deal" of a car).
I understand that car purchases have not been easy for the last 2-3 decades or so, but that has all changed and people should realize that. For those of us that are making a good living by meeting your needs and understanding your wants in a vehicle, you should expect to reward that person for their efforts. But the majority of you don't and never will reward them. You have a sour taste in your mouth about car buying and think that the dealership has no business asking for profit. Shame on those of you who no exactly what I am referring to.

V-10 NSX


2ndbimmer2ndbimmer - 12/22/2008 11:12:27 AM
+4 Boost
The reason that they marked up your Xterra $3000 is because they know people will come in and offer them $5000 below what they are asking. What do you think they should have tried to sell the vehicle for? Didnt you negotiate on the selling price of the new vehicle? Dont you think other people are going to negotiate on the Xterra price? Think rationally....

As for auction prices, I have an account on manheim.com and KBB is usually $1000-$1500 too high on trade-in value. Why would a dealership give you $1500 more for your car than what he can pick up from auction? doesnt make business sense.


Here2InfinitiHere2Infiniti - 12/22/2008 11:50:49 AM
+3 Boost
2ndbimmer is absolutely right. KBB, Edmunds, NADA are all *total* BS. They lag behind the marketplace and do not represent an offer for your vehicle. Mr. Kelley has been dead for decades; try getting him to cut you a check. Manheim is only one of the major auto auctions. Good dealerships may frequent several auctions, and they'd be fools to just throw extra money at you for your trade-in if they were buying for their own used inventory, especially if the vehicle is not their own brand.


BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 12/22/2008 12:51:21 PM
+4 Boost
BSbb - Kelley blue book, edmunds, cars.com, autotrader.com, & NADA are all guides. They do not represent Actual Trade In Value. Those guides are called trailing indicators that are about 30 to 45 days behind what the actual market for a car is. It even states that they are guides and not actual values for a car.

It amazes me when people think that these websites are the ' end all, be all of trade values '. So BSBB, you wanted retail for your car and wholesale for the new car. makes sense to me. lol ... idiot


BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 12/22/2008 2:44:42 PM
+2 Boost
BSBB . I sleep just fine. Thank You for asking. I was just trying to enlighten you that the KBB & edmunds are just guides. Just a way to get an estimated value for your car. Just like buying a new car, what did edmunds or kbb say that you should pay? Probably more than what you actually did. So why does that value not have any weight to it? It is just a guide and not a real indicator of what actual values are, due to it being a trailing indicator of the market.


jselljsell - 12/22/2008 11:48:57 AM
+3 Boost
BSBB....2ndbimmer is exactly right...no matter what the price is of the vehicle....people always expect to pay less....it could be 2k below market value and they will still want more

V-10 NSX


mercuryguymercuryguy - 12/22/2008 12:16:36 PM
+6 Boost
Tire Kickers

I sold a 2000 Mini van a few years ago.

I kept the vehicle in showroom shape and change the oil every 3,000 Miles and a new Fuel Filter every spring. I put a new set of Touring Tires, Pads and Premium Rotors on all 4 corners.

The people came to look at the vehicle, I offered to show the Husband the new oil on the dipstick and the spotless engine, he didn't even want to look under the hood, so I offer to show my Oil Change records I printed from Excel, he still didn't car.

They only thing he cared about was the lack of a DVD player in the back seat for his kids.

He cared only about what they could steal the car for. He called me week after week expecting me to make him a better offer.

Everytime I cut him a break he would say that sounds like something we would be interested in, and he would never show up.

An Older couple came to look at the vehicle, they were so impressed with the condition and Maintenance schedule, they drove to thier bank to get a Bank check same day.

I washed, waxed, Polished the glass, replaced the Air Filter and gave them the royal treatment since they were so appreciative. I even put a nice NAPA Air Guage and Mag Flashlight in the glove box for them.


diesottodiesotto - 12/22/2008 1:08:53 PM
+3 Boost
These discussion are always fun. good vs. evil. buyer vs. seller. the consumer is always right...blah blah blah. I sell Mercs and I enjoy the car business. What makes it fun for me is the customer that actually let's you make a living and making their day when you go the extra mile for them. For my best customers I frequently go personally to pick up their car for service, send them gifts, cards, bottles of wine, or whatever is special for them individually and they love it. To the customer who beats the hell out of me and doesn't care if I have rock soup three meals a day--go pound sand--I feel the same way about you. Don't ever ask me for a favor after the sale. The bottom line is you get what you give. I know my product better than anybody at my dealership and have outstanding customer satisfaction. I start ever relationship as nice as possible and I am a very nice guy--the customer dictates whether it continues that way or not.


mp311mpmp311mp - 12/22/2008 1:42:10 PM
+3 Boost
Hello all,
I've enjoyed AUTOSPIES for some time now, but this is one of the first posts I've felt a need to voice an opinion.
I, as most others who frequent AUTOSPIES (leftlanenews, autoblog, jalopnik, and countless other car-geek websites), am a certifiable C A R N U T ! I started in the car business washing Jeeps, Chryslers, Land Rovers, and Jaguars for a local BIG car dealer when I was 15. I am now 27 and a Sales Professional at a small family-owned Volvo dealership. I've always had a job in the car business and I've moved up from domestics and worked in the service side at the local Lexus dealership for 5+ years. In the big picture, I know I am young, but I've seen a lot of the goods and the bads, the ups and the downs.
There are different types of car salesman and different types of car dealers:
1) Big Big Volume, Big Pressure, Low Price, Low Profit,Low Retention.....all about the units
2) Low Volume, Low Pressure, Premium Brand, Lengthy Process....Customer Satisfaction and customer retention.
Typically, the pushy high pressure 'shark salesman' type don't do well at the high end market. Most of my clients, rightfully so, REALLY do their research on vehicles. That doesn't only mean that they go to KBB or NADA and find what they 'should' pay for the new car or 'should' get for their trade. They narrow down the choices that TRULY fit their needs.
I tell people on a daily basis that there are a number of quality vehicles out there, knowing that not all of them are going to choose what I have to offer...and thats OK.
I also tell people that, for the mostpart, I dislike car salesman, too!! And it's the truth!
I beleive that I have had success in this ever-changing industry by being friendly, knowledgable, and helpful. Most folks aren't 'closed' or 'sold' by a salesman...people DO NOT BUY cars that they don't want. This philosophy wouldn't be as useful in the high pressure, 'LOWEST PAYMENT IN THE WORLD',high volume, 'in-and-out' type of place, nor would I have any desire to work at that type of dealer.
My main goal is to help folks see the value in a certain vehicle or segment, show the pros and cons, and help folks make the right decision for their needs. Rarely do I lose a car sale over a couple hundred dollars and I truly can't recall losing one over something I have or have not done.
It's a wonderful thing to build relationships with clients and see them send in their friends, co-workers, and family members because of how well they were treated and taken care of....not for how good of a smokin' deal they got.
Rightfully so, car salesman have had a bad wrap...typically stereotypes have some truth, and car salesman and car dealerships are no exception. There are a lot of UNprofessionals in the business and places that have the "it's all about today" philosphy. If there's one good thing (and it's a stretch) about the current economic situation and state of the union, it's that hopefully some of the b


mp311mpmp311mp - 12/22/2008 1:45:16 PM
+3 Boost
....If there's one good thing (and it's a stretch) about the current economic situation and state of the union, it's that hopefully some of the bad salesman/dealers get weeded out or change their mentality over the next few months.



Porschefan2Porschefan2 - 12/22/2008 5:48:39 PM
+2 Boost
I have been reading the posts on this topic since this morning and I did not want to say anything, but I feel that I need to. Granted there will be people who will disagree and those who will agree.
mp311mp has put it together very well and BSBB has seen both sides of the business.
Usually in the high end/great service/long term relationship you'll see a lot of veterans, because these are high end cars and most people who buy them are well off and understand the concept of making money, but when they pay good money they expect great service. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.
There is the other side with the volume store that will never be like the one above because the manufacturer shoves cars down their throat on a daily basis, because they've planned their budget on certain number of sales and therefore they'll build so many cars, then the dealer is under pressure to sell them because collecting them would not make them any money and ultimately the sales guy/gal makes nothing, therefore he's pissed, the client has a pre set mindset that he/she's getting screwed no matter what so they could care less for the salesperson or the dealer, yet as states above will gladly pay $90+ for labor later. This ultimately leads to low quality service and nobody's happy. You cant point your finger at one person or institution who's fault it is. It’s just the way it is.
What is sad is when you expect a lot as a customer in a high end store with all the service but don’t want to pay for it or when a high end dealer charges you a pretty penny but then can’t follow through and provide you the experience you deserve as a client.
It always takes two to make a deal, being a car sale or any other deal. There has to be a buyer and a seller who both re willing to work with each other and make compromises in order to make things work. The attitude "here it is and that's it" whether that's a dealer's offer as a "best price" or a buyer's offer as "that's all I'll pay you and that's it" aint never gonna work well. It may work that one time but on the long run there is nothing left. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. If a dealer is being an a$$, they can’t expect the client to be fine and dandy. Same could be said to the customer, if you go in there with an attitude that you know it all better than they do, don’t expect red carpet treatment. There are the examples that the nice guy runs into the shark salesman and the other way around the difficult customer takes and beats up a car salesperson for nothing. A lot of it is luck. Hope that you will run into someone whose personality will match yours and everything should work itself out just fine.
My 2 cents anyway...




fatandsassyfatandsassy - 12/22/2008 3:06:41 PM
+1 Boost
Know what you are selling. It is amazing how many cars I have bought and the salesperson could not operate the radio / nav system or know specs on the vehicle. You should know your product inside and out. I have always done my research before buying a car. I know exactly what I want when i arrive. I just recently purchased a 2008 Jeep Commander with the new V8. I asked the salesperson how much HP was in the new V8. He said he thinks it 220HP. Try 305HP you idiot. That is shameful. He could not work the MYGIG system at all. When i mentioned IPOD adapter it blew his mind..... He was the Top Salesperson at this dealership. He even quoted me finance programs and they were all wrong. Needless to say I did purchase the car but not from this idiot. I went straight to the sales manager and told him that if he wanted to sell the car he would have to deal with me. I do not care if they paid him or not but I was not dealing with that idiot one more minute.


caznable33caznable33 - 12/22/2008 3:40:18 PM
+1 Boost
The fact is except, for Porsche and Ferrari dealerships, most car dealers make a very poor over all profit margin on the cars they sell-customers won't let us. Most dealerships have a business model of virtually giving away a car in the sales dept and then making the bulk of the store's profits when you come back for parts and service.

So next time when you are paying $90/hr to get your A/C fixed, you should spend a few hours researching the true cost for labor and parts and offer to pay $100 over what you think that cost is, because that's where all the money is being made, and most of you pay it without a 2nd thought...

Just trying to get people to look at the situation from a different perspective and think outside of the box.



BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 12/22/2008 5:26:04 PM
+2 Boost
sounds like a great plan for someone who buys basic cars. That wont work in luxury car sales. The cars are so technical, that it takes a trained professional to help with the delivery of the car. But you would rather have a highschool kid helping with your purchase of a BMW, Lexus or Mercedes. lol ... that pretty much tells us that your comments on here are pretty irrelevant ...


mp311mpmp311mp - 12/22/2008 6:40:03 PM
+1 Boost
...I'm not sure if I'd like to know this guy.
Anyhoot, you ARE right in the fact that there will always be enough 'car salesman' out there...
There just aren't enough SALES PROFESSIONALS

sorry for your piss-poor previous experiences in the past.

Next time you're in the market, come see me...I'll make sure you leave with a smile on your face (and a deposit in my bank account)....WIN / WIN!


NotjustlexNotjustlex - 12/22/2008 8:03:30 PM
+1 Boost
BSBB
You are the type of person that all sales professionals don't want to work with. You get mad and call people names because they want to make a living doing their job. You are the type of trash that would not want anyone to make any money then complaine about every little thing and trash a survey. You want a new world wide vehicle production model so you can save a couple of bucks. How typical of your type. Eventually you would want to cut the brokers throat too! Why don't we buy everthing from the factory and cut out everyone in the middle. Does that make any sense. Or is it that without the internet telling you what you think you should pay you would have no idea. Did you buy your TV or your watch from the factory. Did you pay a profit (yes) do you know how much (no). Because the internet does not tell you that. A sales model no matter what business is based on profit to not only cover costs but to grow. Profit makes the world go around, remember that next time you get a paycheck!!!!!!!!!!!!


thstonethstone - 12/22/2008 4:30:44 PM
+1 Boost
I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said, but it was great reading all of the varied opinons!


TURACOTURACO - 12/22/2008 6:31:33 PM
0 Boost
First of all I just wanted to say that I had not idea there were so many car salesmen on this site, damn! Secondly I wanted to share my car buying experience at a local Mazda dealership. I had already shopped it around and knew roughly how much I was going to pay. The day I went in to the dealership I dealt with their best salesman (imo it is always a good idea, since they sell the most cars) and finally we agreed on a price, but since the bank was closed at the time I had to go in the next day to finish the paperwork and pick-up the car.
Well, when I went in the salesman smiling at me, but I could tell it was a forceful smile. I started getting worried. We proceeded to the office of the 'finance guy'. After a few minutes reviewing the papers I noticed that the monthly payment was higher than what I had originally agreed on with my saleseman. I tell that to the 'finance guy' and he says that is the best they could do since they bank would not approve me for a lower payment. Hmmm.....I am thining what you are thinking right now, lol. I kept thinking to myself, these bastards. After going back and forth with him for a little bit I gave in and I agreed to his price, it was still a good deal. I know people that have been screwed big time getting the same car.
On a closing note, the nature of the salesman job it is such that is not certain. One day you will find the sucker you were waiting for and literally rape him/her, next day you will find the person that will make you work harder for your money. You would be a fool thinking to give these guys more money because you don't think they make enough.
That is it, whoaaaa, I feel better!


NotjustlexNotjustlex - 12/22/2008 7:18:38 PM
+2 Boost
If you think that getting raped as buying a car for the price that is posted then look at a cheaper car. If the sticker price is too high for your budget then look at a cheaper car. The business model is going to drastically change over the next couple of years and all of the rebates cash back 15,25,30% off MSRP will go away. The American automotive market is the worst example of a business plan in the world. See how quickly a house of cards falls. You can't over procude a product and force it on your vendors then pay them back to sell it. If you build it for a dollar and sell it for 95 cents you won't last long. You have to have profit to succeed. If you don't make money to sell a product you can't stay in business. Again in you can't afford the car you are looking at quit bitching about car salesmen and look at a car you can afford!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


TURACOTURACO - 12/23/2008 12:20:04 AM
+2 Boost
Again, not affording a car and looking for the best price are two very different things. Maybe your sour salesman attitude has you spewing nonsense. By the way, I was trying to lease a car. A salesman from another dealership quoted me $3000 down and $300 a month for 24 months, while my deal was $1000 down and $270 a month for 24 months. Big difference right, unless you can afford to pay an extra $2000 down plus hundreds more over the course of two years for no particular reason other than.....well you guessed it, put the money into the salesman's wallet. Anyways......you look like a fool protecting these individuals, you are not fooling anybody here!


BMW4me4everBMW4me4ever - 12/23/2008 1:09:36 PM
+1 Boost
BSBB . All the negative marks against you are for what you have said. It has nothing to do whether you are a client or salesperson. To you, you would rather have some highschool kid sell the cars to use the money for beer. wtf? how can anyone take you serious with a remark like that? idiot


DoukasDoukas - 12/22/2008 7:42:27 PM
+2 Boost
Man on man....after reading some of your comments, some of you still don't give car salespeople a break. You'd think the car salesman owns the dealership and comes up with all the crazyiness thats goes along with it.

I guarantee you, if you get to know about 98% of car sales people...they are just trying to make a honest living. They are all customers just like you. But at work, they have to put on a different mentality. Because giving a car away doesn't pay the rent/put food on the table for the family at home.

In some ways, I wish all car manufactures went to pure pricing and you'd see which cars really sell well vs. another one. but thats not the case.
I'm not some bitter old guy that hates life. Im nice to everyone that I talk to, because it doesn't hurt to be a nice person in general. But, when it's time to sit down and talk turkey, then I have to be selfish.
Did you know, a saleman pays for your carwash ? it comes out of the "profit", called a pack. Do you the customer think its fair, if you think about it objectivly, probably not. You just want your "turn-off the-lights" price, screw everyone and go home.

Ive been selling for almost 5 years now (last 2 in the Internet)...Infiniti, Audi/Porsche, Lexus, Acura, and now Honda (because I thought it would be smart because of the economy/gas during the summer) Its a fun business.....what other business can you with a straight face ask someone who has no clue, whould you take it in the brown? (color, lol)

Specially here in So.Cali....most customers act like pre-madonna's. Want every single option..and then want Zero down for a $200 payment...give me a break. And yet, Im the one who doesn't know math.


This business is a Dog eat Dog world..and to the average customer will never see that.



caznable33caznable33 - 12/23/2008 2:22:36 AM
+3 Boost
I'm getting sick of this sense of entitlement that customers feel that they deserve the right to buy a highly engineered and sophisticated piece of machinery for wholesale prices, as well as the notion that if they paid normal retail, they have somehow been "screwed" by the salesmen.

The fact is, there is no other big ticket product where the wholesale cost the dealer pays is available for all to see. All of us have paid much more in profits for high priced products without even thinking about asking for a discount. Think about all the jewelry you bought your wife, or the the Bang&Olufsen home theater system sitting in your living room. What makes these so diffrent than buying a car?

If you walked into a Best Buy, demanding to see the invoice on a $10,000 flat screen TV, and then offering to pay $500 below that. When the salesmen refuses to sell the TV for anything less than the listed price tag, would you think of him as a slimebag shark that's out to gouge you for all you're worth???

If all of you think you have it bad here with the car dealers in the US, trying buying the same car in Europe or Asia. You'll be laughed out of the showroom for even trying to negotiate the price- there is no other country in the civilized world where they still engage in this barbaric and outdated method of buying goods, except for maybe the fruit and vegetables stand in the street markets...



RaulTRaulT - 12/23/2008 12:02:48 PM
+1 Boost
dealerships have contributed to this problem as well. If every single dealership would hold on to their nut sacks and not go another MSRP except if there was factory cash back, then people would not shop around because there would be no reason to.

In my opinion the car business has shifted from gross profit on cars to gross profit in service. Get as many cars on the road so they could come back for oil changes and warranty work


truckmantruckman - 12/23/2008 5:15:47 AM
+1 Boost
My cousin was a top salesman for Ford and he knew nothing about vehicles! He obviously knew the essentials.He is a very honest, personable guy, my conscience would get the better of me if I had to sell Ford cars back then (1997.lol


mercuryguymercuryguy - 12/23/2008 12:13:19 PM
+1 Boost
If you think selling cars is tough, try selling copiers to companies.

You are expected to buy and provide a luxury, late- model car (To show You are sucessful when bring clients to lunch)

You have to wear expensive suits.

Then drive hundreds of miles and walk door-to-Door carying brochures and a laptop in snowing weather.

Then You have a Young Intern secretary calling security to have you removed from the premises and threaten to have your car towed from their parking lot.

All this after leaving the house before sunrise, Burning a tank of gas just to show up at the customer's doorstep to intoduce them to technology to lower thier costs.

You don't have to front money out of pocket to sit in a showroom.


jselljsell - 12/23/2008 2:53:12 PM
+2 Boost
and i'll bet your customers don't have the knowledge of....holdback...invoice....manufacturer to dealer incentives.... anything along those lines..... am I right??

V-10 NSX


mercuryguymercuryguy - 12/24/2008 11:39:12 AM
+1 Boost
It is a very competitive product, Graphic Artisis and Printers need top technology, but they olny learn about it after visiting trade shows once a year.

Then they take your proposal that you spend the entire weekend and evenings prepairing,(Pricing with Excel) and printing with full specs for the customers specific application.

Then they take you proposal, give it to 10 competing companies, ask them to beat the price on product and service, and then go with the lowest bid.

All this after spending business hours with video and Power Point presentations, Flying-in the Regional Manager, Service Manager, IT Technician and picking them up at the airport, shuttling them to the hotel, enetrtaining them til midnight at clubs and so on.

Then breaking the bad news at morning office meeting that the customer went with the lowest bid. and a manager telling you that Your job is on the line and to get out there and drive city to city to find a cutomer ready to sign to replace the one you have just lost.

So I bush the snow off my car in my expensive suit, load the trunk, and set off for another 300 miles encompacing cities to sell technolghy to, and yet another 8pm dinner on the road on my long drive back to my office to print the next days proposals and then home and straight to bed after a long day of selling.

The job keeps me slim and in-shape though, from all the walking door to door in business parks and carying stuff to and from my trunk.


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