Can Hyundai REALLY Beat Lexus Or ANY Of The Other Premier Brands?

why not?.... Lexus used the exact same strategy to compete with Mercedes Benz..... Now that Lexus is considered *number 1* of all the Japanese Luxuries.... I can feel that lexus is starting to cheapin their materials in order to make more profit on each of their products.... but even though they are number 1.... it never meant that Koreans couldnt come in and establish colonies as well..... if they really do pull this off.... Hyundai might just be able to turn heads away from the LS460

ls460? doubt it. maybe the GS cause that is currently the weakest car in lexus' line-up. but nothing in the current (or near future) line of hyundai's can beat the LS460 in quality and comfort and refine-ness.

Why post this question? They are not anywhere near each other from automobiles to dealership atmosphere.Before commenting, please at least take the time to sit in a Hyundai at one of there dealerships and compare it to a BMW, Lexus or Mercedes. You will quickly realize that the only companies to worry would be Kia, Nissan or VW.

kia? hyundai doesnt compete with kia because theyre both the same brand. like dodge and chrysler.

I stand corrected about Kia, thanks.

well well well... god knows how this article can quickly become so associated with Lexus... Lexus fanatics.... heres a go... u guys gotta look outside the box.... Again like I said... Lexus was able to turn heads from Mercedes Benz... That doesnt mean that these three *Mercedes Benz, Lexus, and Hyundai* were in the story.... they also have BMW... the new 7 ... Audi... A8... why be so tempt that Lexus is going to win just because someone new wants to come in and challenge... It would be just like saying 15 years ago Lexus was going to be demolished by Mercedes Benz... look at today?... 15 years later?.... I can see Hyundai parked next to a Lexus in a Golf Club....

shabaru, you got that right. I wanted to buy an RX350 but found out that Lexus had moved the spare tire underneath the vehicle where it is sure to get encrusted with winter salt, mud, and snow. The RX used to have a matching alloy spare in a proper wheel well inside the vehicle. Shame on Lexus. IF Hyundai Genesis would offer an AWD version with a Torsen® center differential like Audi A6 and A8 models as well as an aluminum body like the A8, they would have a car that is virtually unbeatable at any price.

well EnnNorak.... i can tell u that that is a good start... but lets not even go on to lexus yet. Just take Toyota itself as a very good example... about 10-15 years ago i have always thought of the camry as a nice and reliable car. but up to now, i have a friend that tells me that even though he has a 2007 camry... he still relies on his 1994 one for long trips.... now that really doesnt inspire a lot of trust in craftstman ship when u see a car of the same kind cheapening.... but thats of course to them... even though consumers like me may figure this out... they still continue with their belief of crushing competitors such as the ford fusion.... but lets just see if toyota keeps their hopes up and does the same thing. because one day... ford just might redo their hits like the taurus about 20 years ago?

hyundai may be able to produce cars on par with other japanese automakers, but i dont think they will achieve the same prestige-ness that they have. it will take a lot more than just a genesis. it will take years of marketing and a continuation of well engineered vehicles

You just proved the authors point, that it is doable.
You think Lexus became succesful overnight? No, it took years and great marketing techniques. And people still believe that Lexus can,t compete against BMW or Mercedes.
Hyundai can accomplish this goal, however it would have been easier had they come out with a completely new brand.

Why even pose this question, when the answer is early - Yes?

Every car company started somewhere, including Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Audi etc., and one could easily conclude that no vehicle manufacturer in history has accomplished more in such a short amount of time than Hyundai.

Just think about it, it was a mere 20 years ago that Hyundai was best known for producing rolling jokes like the Excel, and now they're being (favorably) compared to some of the (alleged) finest luxury automobiles existent.

Mercedes started as Luxury company.
BMW and Audi didn't, they started exactly as VW and Opel

DaHarder...

Look who posted this article. Of course this is a back handed anti everthing non german post.

To his credit 001 is very loyal to BMW, for some apparent reason.

As it goes, some of us can appreciate a good car no matter the manufacturer. Others are Agent001.

+1

The point is not to beat them, but JOIN them.

deboosted?
didn't realize that i had made an offensive and/or negative comment.
well.
shame on me.

LOL! With fake wood, pleather interiors and an overall wonky design philosophy, the Q45 has never been a serious challenger to the LS. Especially from the second generation forward.

After driving several generations (1990, 1998, 2003) of Q45's extensively, I can see why the Acura RL and the Lexus LS easily stole its marketshare.

Back to the drawing board, Nissan!

Chuck is the new Michael Taylor!

001

StarSearch-

Actually, Acura was the first Japanese luxury car company, not Infiniti. But whatever....

Huh? In the rest of the world, the LS400 IS a Toyota. And its still recognized as a good car.
But certainly in the US, where impression means more than substance, they would need another brand name.

adam,
You're absolutely right. The reason I personally think Hyundai is doing it all wrong is because they want so badly to outsell Lexus, but they make the Accent, a car with an MSRP of less than $10,000. If you look at Toyota, they also sell cheap cars and they never claim their more expensive cars are luxury vehicles. They have Lexus to make luxury vehicles. Hyundai needs a new brand under their belts before they can move forward. Then we will see if they can do it.

IMO...

Design wise they could possibly pull it off if they become more original (as in design some hyundai specific traits that are worthwhile ie kidney grills and halo lights for BMW).

In terms of materials that they use, I was actually semi dissapointed when I saw the genesis in person. Yes it was a good looking car and the finish was done well. But there are subtle things like using mat black plastics in between the doors. On top of that I tend to notice that high end cars tend to make a nice bold heavy noise when you shut the doors (talking about the "bam") but the genesis almost had that rattling hollow sound when you close the doors.

As for performance wise, yes they can build a V8...but I've test drove the Genesis and it no where handles near as well as what a Lexus, BMW, etc does.

so... I personally think Hyundai sure they have the right mindset and direction in going to possibly tier one...(who knows) but they have a lot of catching up to do.

PS- Is it just me but when I look at pictures of the Genesis Coupe...I see a Tiburon or what ever that other 2 door coupe they produce is called and not a "GENESIS COUPE"

I have also driven a Genesis 4.8 and I feel the same way. The door closing sound, in my honest opinion, sounded and felt cheaper than the door closing on a Honda Accord. And the V8 didn't have the throaty growl or the power of a Lexus, BMW, or MB V8. Not to mention the lack of luxury features. I mean, it is a "luxury" car after all. Why skip out on the luxury features?

No, they can't.

what is that picture a BMW 5 Series with a hyudai badge.....I wouldnt say they would be able to beat them but they will be able to compete if they do a rebadge of their brand. NOBODY will ever consider hyundai as a luxury brand even though they came a long way since the late 80's they still have a long way to go to compete with any of the top luxury brands

Hyundai would be better off launching a seperate, higher-end sales channel. The Hyundai brandname itself isn't strong enough to carry a hypothetical 70k sedan, for instance.

Hyundai is just testing the water. remember toyota did this with the cressida. I suspect they will setup a different brand strategy soon.

If that's the case, then a better effort at luxury sedan is to be expected in another decade or so.

Hyundai has to beat toyota, nissan, VW etc... before they can take on the luxury brands. They have yet to do that.

Funny when Toyota launched Lexus it really wasn't beating anyone at anything.

It will take time but i believe that is where Hyundai is headed. The first salvo was the genesis. Next comes a redesign of all their vehicles moving them more upscale with solid engineering to match. Lastly, the dealership experience has to be heavily revised. It will probably take 5 years but i believe they will do it.

When Lexus was launched they had one very good car and a Camry in drag. What they were selling was not a car but the experience of luxury in their car dealers. My wife has a ES350 and as much as I HATE the car I love taking it to get serviced. Free wireless internet,ESPN and three plasma screens, complementary coffee,tea and cookies. You get treated like you just spend 45k on a car and due to the experience that you just had you dont mind. Hyundai is going to need

Can Hyundai REALLY Beat Lexus Or ANY Of The Other Premier Brands?

Yeah, if you're into generic styling because you want to save a few pennies.

Have u seen the new nissan maxima first thing I like was the exterior design once I got inside the dash looked very cheap and I was dissapointed.

I saw the Genesis Sedan and I can say wow its very well made but for Hyundai (I havent drive one yet)should have enter the USA market with the Logo of South Korea sedan, the wing logo and a new brand Dealer beside the Hyundai make the same Lexus and toyota strategy but I know making a new brand segment cost alot and The Genesis is the only car that would be available if it was ever made and then the coupe, but why not make an SUV since the Borrego from kia is a Genesis made SUV and then 3 model that could had been made for a Genesis Dealer, a part from the Hyundai line up, but since they enter as Hyundai Genesis people would be more impressed if they didnt know was from Hyundai and was another luxury car segment

I'm not sure if they'll ever beat those brands anytime in the near future. But I also know better to never say never. But I do think they've accomplished their mission of showing the world they're no longer the pushovers that make bad cars.

I wouldn't go that far. Hyundai has yet to prove themselves. Honda and Toyota have built cars that last decades. In fact, I know people who have Hondas from the 70s and they're still running strong. Hyundai has only recently, in the last five years or so, decided to build cars decently. We don't know the long term affects of these cars since they haven't been around long enough to have a long term experience. Hyundai claims their new generation of vehicles are reliable, but the fact is, NOBODY really knows.

Not a snowball's chance. Not until they completely revisit their entire manufacturing process and approach. No more reusing outdated Honda tooling, for example. Bragging about a long warranty (for the original sucker only) when your car's always in the shop is no substitute for building quality in from the start. The Korean nameplates are 20+ years away from the quality levels offered by today's Japanese nameplates, i.e., they are where Datsun and Toyota were in the late 1960's.

This proposition is preposterous.

You just woke from a 20 year snooze, right?

yup. ole rip van winkle hasn't seen that recent hyundais have LEAPFROGGED both detroit and the snooty euro brands in reliability.

they are chasing ONLY honda and toyota now in this respect.

it is true however, they also need to catch up in IMAGE and styling.

Yes.

The moment when you start to believe that your untouchable is when you make yourself weak.

Merc and BMW allowed Lexus to take hold in the U.S.

If Hyundai takes off with higher end models, it will only be because BMW, Merc, and Lexus allow them to do so.

Arrogance should be reserved for the customers. There is no place for feelings of superiority in the leadership of a company.

Ever since Lexus took the reigns, BMW, MB, and Audi have been on full alert and have started working hard. They're probably aware of Hyundai and, like you said, won't let Hyundai be better than them. Again, like you said, Lexus has a cushy seat at the top and has probably let their guard down. I don't know for sure about that because they're continually trying to compete with the Germans. Even though they have the sales, they don't have the strong and sturdy fan base. In other words, all of the luxury brands are continuously moving forward. None of them have really stopped trying. That saying, I don't think they'll let Hyundai win.

Honestly, I have to say no. I think there target should and will be Honda, Nissan, and Toyota. I highly doubt anybody shopping for a Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes, or BMW will cross shop them with Hyundai, as they are in a different class.

It can possibly happen, but it will take quite sometime. And when it does it will not only affect Lexus, but also MB, BMW, AUDI, etc...but it will be a long battle for Hyundai to convince the real world consumers about their products, especially on the luxury level...and the only company that can actually produce luxury vehicles even at a competive price in the near future, then what this company offers today is Lexus(if they have too)and maintain luxury brand quality and performance,...not even MB, BWM, and Audi, etc...can afford to do that even if their life depending on it.

No. Nothing more need be said.

I don't think it can. See, for decades Toyota was known for making reliable cars with good quality, this was the key for making Lexus succeed and make its competitors to follow its lead. But Hyundai, is known for poor reliability, and they really don't have anything else other than less expensive and 100k miles warranties. To be in this segment, quality and reliability is #1, the buyer needs to make sure he's spending his money on something that's worth it.

Besides that, the new Genesis' design is just old, looks like the old Infiniti I35, so no new lines in the Genesis design.

Toyota didn't make better cars. They just made better cars than Detroit, and their brilliant marketing leveraged that to the max. The old Camry's weren't as good as the Maxima. Going way back, the Corolla tried to match the 510. Toyotas didn't last as long as Datsuns, and didn't stand up to performance mods. But their marketing is #1, and the ability of the service people to say "we've never seen that problem before" with a straight face is also to be commended.
Toyotas are good cars, but not better than their competitors.

if they really do pull this off.... Hyundai might just be able to turn heads away from the LS460

LMFAO....the LS outsell the S, 7 and A8...FACT, what fool will turn there heads after looking at those top 4???? i forgot old people like these cars

back to the topic, yes it will hurt the GS, 5 and E...it out performs and out handle all 3 of them...lol

Lexus LS is only outselling the sclass in the US. In many places in the world they are still viewed upon as rebadged Toyotas. Lots of Lexus drivers were previous Cadillac drivers as well as Toyota drivers and found that Lexus offered value for luxury and converted. The S550 and the LS in price could be a whole civic in margin but all lexus lack luster of a euro and that's fact. curb appeal, status symbol, luxury, you name it all belongs to the euro. Lexus has nothing on the S65 which cost double of an LS460, DOUBLE!

The MSRP price of a S550 is already the same or more than the LS600HL flagship up here in Ontario. And don't give me that "Oh Lexus has great technology and the Merc's are only for snobs" bullcrap because it's the pinnacle of motoring, it is the benchmark luxury sedan that everyone wanted to be before and many who hate are still mad they cant afford one. I love the lexus brand overall but i hate how the fanboys like to defend this brand which is virtually american to start with.

Hyundai has a share in the market if they are to do the right things that lexus did and if done at the right timing they can steal some off lexus, acura, and infiniti but for hyundai to reach Mercedes-Benz star status and prestige it sure wont happen in our generation, maybe our children's.

no ... you're getting de-boosted by people who actually know a bit about the current state of the auto-industry, not the way it was 10 or 20 years ago.

lexus many not have sportyness of BMW and Infiniti...
its all depend on market and products...
in 2006 Infiniti came up with M35/45, they sell more than GS. But Infiniti's EX is big faliure. But Lexus build what customers wanted,the products like ES350 and RX350, those car anyone with descent job can afford it. If Infiniti or Acura can buil the car/suv to beat that they may have a chance there. I really don't think BMW and MB want to beat Lexus in sales in NA market. this is very critical market. for example, if benz had vehicle like RX/ES, anyone with $60+ or person can afford it. when u go to Benz service person with $500K plus car is served with another junkey. I don't thnik i like that.

Lexus is become a like buick or acura. But they do make some good realiable cars. if next generation like to drive cars like BMW and Infiniti they will out run Lexus in long run... having said this Lexus/Toyota have money and resource to build anykind of car they want

NItePhire there is something very wrong with your story. I dont particularly like the ES350 either because it is front wheel drive but, it serves its purpose. Why would your wife be driving a car that you hate. Something is wrong with this picture. I can understand if you flat out hate it because sells like hot cakes. Or maybe because its too soft for your taste. We want to know the real reason why you hate a 35k entry-level luxury car that your wife drives.

The ES 350 suffers from poor material quality and a rather uninspired cabin design. The center console, for exmpale, feels flimsy and hollow when shifting between gears.

Agent 001 to respond to your question. From an image point of view there's just no way. Realistically, Lexus rolls with the big boys. Most people that can truly afford a 50-120k car(luxury image car) is going consider a Merc,Lex,Bim,Aud and maybe a Jag. If you talk to anyone in that arena you will find the LS460/600 right at the top of their list. Now if they start looking at JDPowers,customer satisfaction and the Lexus buying experience, well Lexus will sure enough be hard to beat.

jag definitely has the image factor down for luxury and their cars are quiet as well. jags are more prestige than lexus cars simply because of old british luxury.

and for lexus anything more than 120k is not lexus territory. i still have a perception of lexus as a brand that people buy if they can't afford a Mercedes cause its a benchmark brand to match but with some models it's priced similarly at the lower end where most shoppers are.. no one will pay anything more for a lexus. cars like the s8 and the s63/65 models can't be touched, that's a niche market and a expensive market that no lexus, bmw, or jag can touch.

C'mon the American people are much smarter than that, or at least I'd hope so. Hyundai will NEVER compete at the same level as the luxury marques. People who shop for a Mercedes or BMW or even a Lexus do not visit their local Hyundai dealership to check out the competition. Business CEO's wont and don't view Hyundai as a luxury brand let alone ever being seen in one. Hyundai introduced the Genesis hoping to steal sales away from Lexus but the fact of the matter is that they haven't even come close to stealing sales. The Genesis' closest competitors would be the likes of Nissan Maxima, Chrysler 300, or Toyota Avalon. While I admit exploring new territory is a good thing but sometimes it's better to stick to what you know best and don't swim in open waters. So the answer is NO.

What I don't understand is how the Genesis is getting all of these good reviews. If you drive a $40,000 Genesis and then drive a $35,000 Lexus ES, the Lexus stands out as far as comfort, quietness, quality, and nearly every single other aspect and you get it for $5,000 cheaper. The Genesis is nothing to brag about. Actually, I've only seen two on the streets. The fact of the matter is that it's too much money for too little of a car. That's why they haven't sold as much as they planned.

Yes, Hyundai Genesis can compete for buyers looking for a great car at a good price. Saw a review on SpeedTV with Tommy Kendal. He loved V8 Genesis. Would not be suprised to see Hyundai develope "sports activity coupe" ala BMW X6.

What Hyundai should do is stop taking replicated styling cues from other makes(making a bad chinese habit)....this does not make them "A distinguished luxury brand"...it's only their pricing...that sets them apart. Hyundai came in a tough time to sell a luxury brand where there is too many competition in relaibility, performance, and of coarse styling...too bad they can't at the moment come up with their own ideas...or even have balls to replicate other brands and say "we are just as good"...yeah whatever!!! Kinda close but no cigars kids!!!...LMAO!!!

It's true. And the reason why their prices are so low is because they're not using premium luxury items in their cars. Fake wood, for instance. And standard leather compared to hand selected, hand stitched, ultra soft leathers. There IS a reason why they're so cheap.

LOL! this reminds me of when Audi was trying to break away from its vw-ish image and break into the entry luxury ranks.

their ads touted things like "more legroom than a lincoln continental,' more trunk space than a buick, and other trivial things that had NOTHING to do with basic mechanical goodness.

i'd say, if audi can do it, why not hyundai?

Lexus did it. Hyundai is building a platform that should carry the brand further. Maybe we will see other carmakers outsourcing their lexlike cars to Hyundai soon. Re-Badge engineering anyone?

There's 2 aspects affecting Hyundai's future.

True, they have improved more and faster than any other brand, and if they can continue at the current rate, ... well, then they'll beat everyone.

However, when the improvements come from copying technology invented by others, then Hyundai, like Lexus, will hit a wall. Once you've matched what the Germans are doing, you can't progress until they come out with something new for you to copy.
Based on that, they can match Lexus.
But they may not be able to get any further.

I don't know if Hyundai CAN beat Lexus or BMW or Audi or Mercedes, but as of now, they are in no way on the same level as those brands. People on this website are Hyundai-Whores and will dismiss all I have to say, but I have driven the latest Hyundais, and while they are an improvement, they're nothing compared to the real luxury cars, including the Genesis. Hyundai just does what it does best: cuts corners and rips off other cars' designs. But in all honesty, Hyundai needs to make MAJOR improvements to be considered a luxury car.

I don't think there are many "Hyundai Whores" on this site.
But there are a lot of German car fans, who are tired of seeing Toyota get accolades for technology ripped off from Europe.
And to a lot of them, seeing an underdog Korean company use the Toyota play-book and threatening the Japanese at their own game gives them a warm fuzzy feeling.
... a small taste of retribution for decades of techno-theft!

But since there are also major numbers of Japanese badge-whores on here, I know I will get substantially de-boosted.
Which I look forward too :)

Lexus has more to worry abut from Buick then Hundai and that sure ain't much. Their demographics are frighteningly close already.

BMW. Mercedes and Audi - different customers that will never embrace Hyundai.

yep, Hyundai can beat Lexus off.

I'm starting to become a beliver. Now if only

Hyundia could build an affordable Knock-off of the Bentley Arnage. Maybe a sedan with a Yanmar Diesel?

That would make a nice business sedan for me and my work.

I think a big target for these luxury Korean cars are for Koreans themselves, living in or out of Korea. Many Koreans, even the younger ones, still despise Japan because of the war. They try to avoid buying Japanese goods, and will often choose their country's own products because of their unusually high amount of nationalism.

If Koreans are to try to appeal to a broader audience they need to build respect for not only a particular brand's image, but the country as a whole. Right now they're mostly known to make cheap knock offs. Samsung's iPhone knockoffs were horrible (especially on the software side - the best part of an iPhone - even Taiwan's HTC make much nicer competitors to the iPhone), their TV's are decent but definitely not category leaders against to Sharp, Sony, etc... Their cars have only recently started to become competitive in the economy car market.

I think if they want to gain the necessary respect they need an angle. When Lexus came out it was marketed as a Mercedes with Japanese build quality, reliability, and their super quiet interiors. At the same time other Japanese makers gained a lot of respect and built a loyal fan base from it's cars like the Toyota Supra Twin Turbo, Nissan 300ZX, Mitsubishi 3000GT, etc... Previous to these cars your options were basically Corvette, Camaro or Porsche. With it's previous reputation of building high quality, reliable cars, now with respectable high performance cars, it was easier for Americans to accept a luxury Toyota named Lexus. Hyundai has primarily focused on economy cars, no performance cars or anything with unique engineering or technology. Hyundai's early attempts at luxury cars were complete design knock-offs of Jaguar, Mercedes, and BMW. That's not a great intro into this very discriminating market.

I really don't think Hyundai is trying to steal BMW/Lexus/MB customers. Mostly because it's not working and I don't think they're that dumb. I think they're going for a totally different crowd (Koreans, Camry, Accord, etc...)

that looks exlatly like bmw

for many of the reasons given above, hyundai may well pull this off. but it'll take at least 5 - 10 years.

and, much as they're trying to avoid the cost, they will also HAVE TO OPEN a 2nd, upscale sales channel. for anyone questioning this, two words: vw phaeton.

The topic here is NOT about Hyundai's reliability or build quality - it's about "can Hyundai compete with Lexus or other luxury brands in the LUXURY MARKET." There's little question that Hyundai's are on the short list of any consumer considering a Corolla or Civic, but is it on the list when consumers are considering a Lexus, BMW or Mercedes? My guess is, for the most part, no.

Most people have accepted modern Hyundai's as being cars with good build quality and reliability. But a luxury car isn't only about that. Luxury is mostly about perception. There's several ways to market a product so consumers perceive your product as luxury so they're willing to pay the premium price tag for it. If I were Hyundai this would be my road map for engineering & marketing Hyundai as a luxury car:

1. Reliable - DONE
2. Build Quality - DONE
3. Quality Materials - PARTIALLY DONE (door slam needs to sound like a BMW, not a Corolla)
4. Probably a new name for the luxury line-up
5. Unique, Original and Attractive Exterior Design
6. High-Performance Engineering (fast, power engines, high-end transmissions, etc...)
7. High-Tech Engineering (innovative engines, innovative non-gasoline engines, innovative technology inside, etc...)

Good luck Hyundai!