The Complete 2009 BMW 7-Series Details Break Cover Sending Lexus And Mercedes Back To The Drawing Boards

I personally don't think that Lexus and Mercedes need to go back to the drawing board because of the new 7-Series, well at least Mercedes anyway. Mercedes-Benz is about to give the S-Class a minor refreshing for 2010 which should keep it up-to-date until an all new model somewhere around 2012 or so. Lexus on the other hand needs to freshen up their LS flagship soon. In my opinion this vehicle never really stood out as a styling champion nor any nods for electronics (hence the pointless self-parking system). The 7-Series looks good inside and out and seems like it has a lot to offer, just it's not enough to dethrone the S-Class.

Exactly. As much as I love the G & 3, I don't think there's real competitor to S in that segment so far.

Wait until you see the 7 series on the road. IMO it looks like a class above the S-class. Even the interior.

wait until 7 out sells LS in U.S. then we are talking.
seriously, before saying something so ignorant, please review the following 4 points:
when did Toyota start making cars?
when did BMW start making cars?
who has the higher marking value now?
and who is the world largest car manufacture now?

Why would the technologically advanced LS have to go back to the drawing board? Maybe the S Class sure, but even the new 7-series takes design cues from the Lexus.

MERCEDES HAS A HOT s-CLASS DONT GET ME WRONG BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT........OF COURSE YOU WILL HAVE A HOT CAR WHEN YOU TAKE THE SAME EXACT SHAPE OF ON OF THE HOTTEST SELLING EXOTIC LIMOS(MAYBACH 57&62)AND INCORPORATE IT INTO A CHEAPER MODEL OF YOUR BRAND OF COURSE ITS GOING TO BE HOT. DID BMW USE THE PHANTOM AND DESIGN THE NEW 7 SERIES NO BECAUSE THEY KEEP IT ORGINAL. MY THING IS THE SCLASS IS BORROWED FROM MAYBACH AND HAS NO ORIGINALITY DESIGN QUES AT ALL. FOR ALL THE HATERS OUT THERE THE NEW 7 SERIES IS HOT AND IT WILL SELL EVEN BETTER THAN THE PREVIOUS MODEL......I MEAN LOOK CAN YOU GO DRIVE AROUND TOWN OR ON THE HIGWAY AND NOT SEE A BANGLE BUTT 7 SERIES EVERBODY AND THEIR GRANDMOTHER OWNS ONE SO i DONT SEE THIS ONE BEING ANY DIFFERENT

OH WAIT MY FAULT THEY DID TAKE THE INTERIOR OF THE BANGLE BUTT 7 SERIES AND INCORPORATED IT INTO THE SCLASS IN THEIR OWN SLICK LITTLE WAY.

"when did Toyota start making cars?
when did BMW start making cars?
who has the higher marking value now?
and who is the world largest car manufacture now?"

How is this relevant? Toyota is a huge mass-market corporation. BMW is (used to be?) a niche carmaker. They make luxury cars. Toyota makes luxury cars just for some icing on their massive cake.

This may have been asked already I'm not sure, did any of you read the 118 page specification manual? Just curious.

MB and Lexus has nothing to worry about...Lexus on the other hand is still learning the luxury curve, and they are doing quite well considering they have been in the game for only the last 20 years. The 7 series looks to be a great improvement, and liking the new styling ques and what it has to offer, but it does not shake up the flagship industry when comparing this to MB and Lexus...it's matter of just picking your aquired taste!

Q never has been much of a challenger to the LS, Legend or RL. I guess the last Q45 has been on the drawing boards since 2002.

Your perception of luxury is pleather, AM/FM stereo and possibly AC.

LOL the Infiniti Q? That rebadged Nissan Cima? The "luxury sedan" that never was, or was a total failure?

Lexus, unlike Infiniti, is suceeds in making luxury cars. The only think Infiniti can do is make a bunch of rebadged Nissan Primeras

Lexus and Mb has nothing to worrie about, plus this new BMW 7-Series is one "UGLY" Mug.

ChuckG37,

Please, please....STOP with Your Stupid Non-sense comments. Infiniti Do Not even a a car that compete in this Segment. And they're not even consider tier 1 here.
Their last Gen Q is horrendous, and just plain Ugly, you know what I mean? Good.

talk to me when lexus can charge a PREMIUM over competitors--or even the same price as MB or BMW. lexus is a value-purchase for the upwardly mobile retired set.

Hey enthusiast,

Did you happen to see the "premium" trunk money Mercedes is dropping on the S Class and CL? $12,000 and $20,000 resepctively... Over priced Uber turds that cannot sustantiate their grossly inflated sticker prices. You German fanboys kill me, flat out kill me!

Get ready BMW owners, for the same 'ole same 'ole experience in ownership. Buy your 90k+ sled and spend most of your time in service. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!! I know I'm about to catch a ration of s$#t for saying that from all of your "true drivers". However, I must add that BMW is the Ultimate Driving Machine (when is actually driving). What's the excitement worth, when the Nav talks to you in german, or your trany fails?? Anyway, if the germans were not so QUICK to release something,and actually tested it more thoroughly, the brand may actually be more dominant in the market. Also, give the customer a better buying experience. They deserve it. After all, they have just plopped down 40k+ for your product. There might be something to learn from the Japanese afterall.

dear polska:

1. bmw is rated above average by the same consumer reports read by the eggheads who obsess about reliability over all else.

2. i've had 3 bmws and no significant problems with any

3. how many bmws have you owned?

I am quite aware that this will be deboosted however I shall speak it nevertheless.

The S class interior is by far the worst in class. It is not aesthetically pleasing. Qulaity may be there, however it lack style. Its boring. The Lexus interior in this class is by far the best. I have never been a fan of the interiors in the S Class. The 7 series interior is ok.

Exterior(wise) I have the wheel archs and rear of the S class. As it stands today, I think Lexus is the best in this class. Have to wait to see the new 7 to make my opinion on the 09's.

not to mention faux leather in parts ofthe cabin in a car that expensive is rediculous, mercedes seems to be losing its way in interior quality, and desighn, but the CL, and S are by far the best interior desighns in the lineup other than the cls, as they havent switched to the 80's esque look of the newer models,

Wow Chuck. How old are you really? Please offend someone already so that you will banned like the other village idiots that came and went! Its ok for Christmas to arrive a little late on autospies! Don’t know how much longer we can tolerate your worthless babble.

Read it again. I did misspell quality. I think that’s the part you missed.

Chuck, what do you do? Sit around a wait for people to respond to your nonsense? You cannot be serious. Get a life buddy!

As an S550 owner, I have to disagree. The interior of this car radiates a subtle elegance and class that is severely lacking in the Lexus LS. It might take you some time to feel this way but I've always felt that the interior in the S-Class was very elegant and fitting of a European luxury sedan.

I personally am not impressed with the LS interior from both a material and quality perspective. The wood looks fake and the design lacks any form of elegance as with most Lexus interiors. The European luxury cars have a clear design language when it comes to styling interiors for such cars. Simple and elegant lines are what constitute the interiors of these top European luxury sedans. The LS interior on the other hand appears very busy, doesn't have the best ergonomics according to most reviews and the overall material impression feels below that of the A8 and S-Class or even the Jaguar XJ.

As I have not seen the new BMW 7-Series in person, I won't comment on the interior until I have spent some considerable time inside the car. This would give me enough time to properly comment on the interior once I am face-to-face with it.

Quote from Bill - 12/27/2008 3:26:56 PM0

"As I have not seen the new BMW 7-Series in person, I won't comment on the interior until I have spent some considerable time inside the car. This would give me enough time to properly comment on the interior once I am face-to-face with it."

Bill, Being the proud owner of an S550 you should be quite familiar with the interior of a BMW 7 Series as the S550's dash layout is a near complete ripoff of the 7 series. With one distinct advantage...

... The Benz i-Drive controller is much easier to use.

Read on, from:
http://www.autozine.org/html/Mercedes/S_class.html

Mercedes came up with a dashboard design similar to BMW 7-Series. It also copied BMW's idea to move the gear lever to the steering column and place a big armrest + rotary control knob of the Command system in front of the arm rest.

You can think what you want.

Car companies also base interior designs on research regarding ergonomics. The S-Class interior is not a BMW 7-Series copy in my opinion.

Please stop such silly talk about this company copying this company etc. It's childish and you certainly sound like a child.

Actually Bill, sit in a 2002 BMW 745 and then back in your S550. Anyone would see the big similarity. Starting from the Screen being next to the gauges, on top of the dashboard, passing though the similar looking knobs, and ending with the gear shifter on the steering wheel. Obviously the Benz has a better interior, but the similarity cannot be ignored.

Bill, You're right I can think what I want. For your consideration I attached a link to an article that seems to share my opinion, calling me childish or belittling me accomplishes nothing except to expose your obvious ignorance.

Companies copying each other is nothing new, the practice has actually lead to some great automobiles and a sharing of life saving technology. My observations are hardly "childish" or "silly", but your obvious bias and callas rebuttal is.

"The S class interior is by far the worst in class. It is not aesthetically pleasing. Qulaity may be there, however it lack style. Its boring. The Lexus interior in this class is by far the best. I have never been a fan of the interiors in the S Class. The 7 series interior is ok."

What are you smoking? The S-Class just feels special. Every little knob and button is metal or is lined with metal. The action of the COMAND knob is perfect. The damping of every push-open nook is pleasing. The leather is buttery smooth but the seats are firm and comfortable. Even the wood is lined with silver, and it "floats" above the dash, a great touch. Every material is of high quality and IMO it's in fact very stylish. A simplistic, elegant atmosphere.

The Lexus interior is, in Lexus fashion, stuffed with buttons to give the impression of complexity. It is, in fact, very complex. But there are places in the Lexus that use plastic where Mercedes uses metal. The center console itself could be straight out of an IS250. Instead of having a stitched leather dash like the S-Class, the LS460's dashboard is plasti-vinyl. And I also think it's a bit ugly. Simplicity wins over a ton of buttons every time.

having not been a bmw fan for about the last 5 years, i have to say this 7 series looks quite promising. a worthy contender to the legendary S class

It's a nice car and better than the current 7-series, especially the interior. However, is it just me or do other people see it - from the side and the rear, it looks like a LEXUS LS460!

people are going to say that this is because lexus stole the hoffmeister kink from bmw, thus this new styling cue belongs to the 7 series. and if anything, it looks like a GS/Genesis

wrong. the kinky Hoffy is NOT the same as the 'flying buttress' type c-pillar as used on the lexus. the latter is far more elegant.

the kinky Hoff looks like a dog's leg. dunno why it ever got so copied by beemer-wanna-bees. bmws are renown for handling, NOT STYLING.

"kthor - 12/27/2008 12:25:35 PM+2 Boost

BTW, is lexus still using white noise generators in their interiors to mask their mechanical inferiority?"

They must be, I overheard a service writer telling a customer that they need a new "white noise Generator", and their "muffler bearings" need to be re-packed.

Seriously "kthor" a white noise generator? My experience with this company for the last two years leaves me in awe of their mechanical abilities, I doubt Lexus would ever launch a vehicle that needed a white noise generator to mask a design flaw. Actually from my experiences, the only car company that would ever consider doing such a thing puts a chicken foot on their hood.

I'm sorry, but white-noise generators?

You anti-Lexus folks are now just making crap up.

Any sane person reading this would know just how dumb an accusation like that is.

Besides, you same folks that like to say Lexus never leads in tech are now saying they were using noise cancellation (or something like it) on their 1ST GENERATION LS??????????

When telling a story it's best to remember that it needs to be at least somewhat plausable.

You don't have to lie to have friends!

Why do I have to keep saying this?

Just because BMW gave a name to a frikkin curve, doesn't mean they invented it, nor does it mean anyone else using it "copied" it from BMW.

As proud as some of you are over the stupid kink and it's lovely German name, the true creators of the curvy line were most likely a couple of cavemen who scribbled it on a cave wall.

KTHOR,

If you are going to start a story out with the words... "One time, at a ride and drive"... Please write it and read it before you post it. Having worked for most of the "marque" brands sold in this country I can tell you each and every ride and drive it very tactfully set up to exhibit the featured vehicle in the best possible light, while showing the competators in a very negative light.

I remember one time at a 3 series ride and drive they had the new Cadillac there, and after each rotation they would pull the car into it's own special pit where one of the workers would stand there with a hose spraying the radiator pretending to keep the car cool enough to continue. When I climbed in the car to take my turn I took note of the temp and checked it again when our rotation of 3 was finished, the car was not, and I repeat NOT running hot, yet they had us pull it back into the wet pit anyway. It was at that point I started to pay closer attention to the brainwashing that goes on at those events.

And as the "sailor" and "answer" pointed out above, a noise cancelling device in a first gen LS? Please...

ChuckG, a friend of a friend story lends little factual credence to your claim. Trust me when I say this, if Lexus did put a noise cancelling device in their car and it broke, the service writer wouldn't throw one in for free.

Screw white noise and noise cancellation. The new 7 series is a copy of the LS from the rear and the side. Everything from the tail lamps toe the square dual exhausts. I don't care what kinky hoffmeister is there. The automotive writers will vindicate me when it shows up for a test drive.

kthor--
of course i know what a flying buttress is. and of course, its adaptation to automotive styling of c-pillars is not EXACTLY as used in architecture. besides the LS, ferrari has used this design element.

and it is significantly DIFFERENT from the kinky hoffy, with much more elegant curves.

and as much as beemerphiles would like to NOT consider, that design cue existed LONG BEFORE bmw adopted it. you can see it in 1970s toyotas, and even in late '40s and mid-'50s gm cars.

Everyone who bought a 2002 BMW 7 series (and had it quietly bought back to usurp the lemon law) should recieve a new 7 series to drive prior to the factory launching the car. There is no better judge of quality than the poor sods who fell for it the first time.

If Chris Bangle had ANYTHING to do with the design or production of this vehicle it should be disclosed on the Monroney. If CB had NOTHING to do with it, then it should be badged "750I BFM" or "765Li BFM"...

...Can you figure it out?

KTHOR,

All of the '02 production, and the first 3 to 4 months of the '03 production of the BMW 7 series were lemons. I'm not going to get into it on a message board, this is a widely known fact for anyone who had to fill out the buy back papers and take those poor people out of those cars. Just accept it and move on.

Kthor either has some major financial interest in BMW, or he is so lacking in self confidence he needs that little propeller logo on his car to feel "cool".

He's obiviously a fan (as can be seen by him crawling out from his rock anytime there is the slightest mention of BMW), but one wonders why he feels a need to personally defend the company who by his own words doesn't need to defend anything they do.

Answer,

KTHOR's ignorance is quite common among "order takers" or what I would call the average single point BMW salesman. They simply cannot open their minds long enough to consider the reality of competent competition. I know from experience, I was there once... Perhaps he'll come around?

as if anybody who actually drives a premium luxury car cares what you think...

...or what you think enthusiast...or what any auto journalist thinks...maybe that's how LS has outsold the 7 for nearly 2 decades now.

You keep talking crap about japanese cars as if your words hold any water.

dinamo:

the LS hasn't been in the same price range as the 7 until recently (and the 7 is still starts $15k higher). doesn't take a genius to figure out that a car that sells for 30% less would sell more volume.

tell me which lexus models commmand a PREMIUM over mercedes or bmw...

If by "premium" you refer to which car is launched with more trunk money or factory support? The answer to that question is Mercedes-Benz, hands down. On average there is more factory subvention across the board on MB than there is with most if not all other lines. Among the premium brands BMW would be second.

fabulous engine and great handling as in all BMWs. distinctive looking car too--even if it has gotten a little more conservative.

i'd happily drive one.

no i haven't driven it. but i have driven plenty of the current 7. and the auto journalists have said that the new offers even better driving dynamics. so they're all lying?

I still like the shape of the 2008 7 series.

"Sending Lexus And Mercedes Back To The Drawing Boards"

Seriously?

Now, see I knew that most of you BMW folk would get your feelers hurt about what I said. Don't take it personally. It's just my opinion. I've sold these gems for number of year, and boy do I love the way they drive. The test drive always sold the vehicle. However, when I had to look into my client's eyes a few months later when they had repetitive service issues (nav, i-drive, electrical, etc.) It sort of ruined the credibility of the Ulimate Driving Machine status. Love your vehicle, love your service consultant. (i do love that free maint though)!!!!!

Polska, this will surely garner a negative boost rating but who cares, it's pretty funny.

From Urban Dictionary dot com:
10. "Beemer"

A car marketed to the upwardly mobile working and lower-middle classes as a luxury mark. Despite being one of the UKs most common brands, seen by the terminally unimaginative as somehow exclusive.

Distinguishing features are non-functional indicators and a special lens in the windscreen which makes the car in front look further away. This results in typical Beemer driving behaviour such as changing lane or direction without warning and driving two inches from the car in front.

Beemer Baz: Get out of my way - can't you see I'm important?
Driver in front: No, I have a car in front of me, so take your repmobile Beemer out of my ass.

KTHOR,
Un bunch your panties my friend, I've probably forgotten more than you'll ever know about that company... My knowledge of the BMW brand wasn't gleaned from locking myself in my dorm room while "rubbing one out" over a stack of BMW brochures... ...My brainwashing came directly from BMW USA, (corporate).

FYI, As you pointed out I cut and pasted a snippet from urban dictionary, if you want to take issue with verbiage, vocabulary, or spelling, I recommend you put in a formal request to urbandictionary.com. Please know in the future when I quote you or someone else here, I promise to do so keeping your words in tact, however badly spelled or mis-interpreted they may be.
May God Bless you all the days of your life...

It's going to be OK Kthor.

Just go back to your corner, get in the fetal position, and chant "BMW is the best" while you rock back and forth.

A few hours of that and you should be good as new!

Mercedes not so worried.

Lexus is peeing in their pants non stop thinking of the new 7.

Of course Lexus is peeing in their pants over the release of the Genesis.

:-/

PRETTY?

yes.

the feminine aspect of el34 ia obvious. he liked to "play house" as a little boy. now grown, he dabbles in real estate TRYING to sell houses.

Nice car and it does move the game on ahead of Lexus and MB. But what doy ou expect? The new 7 series would have benefitted from being able to strip down current generation S class and LS460s to see what makes them tick, plus ythe benefit of 2+ years extra development time. Of course, the new Audi A8 will move the game on a bit itself...and then in a few short years the new LS and S class will come out - and let's not forget the new Jaguar XJ - and the game moves on again...

The Jaguar? I thought the market killed that cat. lol.

No question the current model just totally mis-judged the market - too old fashioned in looks, even though its aluminium body was leadign edge in many ways. Hopefully Jaguar would have learned its lesson for the new XJ...and hopefully it will still be around in 3 years time when we may see the market turn around

ChuckG37:

C'est connoisseur, pas connaeuseurs or something like that.

Sorry, just needed to spellcheck your French...

I know the title of this post was written to stir up a bunch of crap, but can't you people discuss one car without having to speak negative of another?

Seriously. An S Class, an LS, and this new 7 are all awesome cars that the majority of people posting here will never own let alone sit in.

So isn't all of the "this car's better than that one" arguing pretty dumb?

"answer"

Dumb arguing is what this site is about......

Toyota=Cattle Mover.
Lexus=Cattle Mover (with nicer leather)

A close competitor is always good to keep the leader up where it is. Therefore, the S-Class benefits from the 7-Series; the 7 benefits from the LS; the LS from the Genesis and so on…

KTHOR, Were you so impresses with your wordsmithing your wrote it twice? Let me guess... My comment about being an order taker hit a little too close to home?

Yeah, I guess you're right, all the certificates and accolades the factory sent me over the years were really worthless. I will say this though, turning "greenpeas" like you into dedicated, seasoned sales professionals at BMW dealerships made me a wealthy man.

And as a true believer, however real or perceived our differences may be, I truly do wish God Blesses you all the days of your life. (my new years resolution it to be kinder and gentler)

I just gave you a boost for that one, great job! If you went on a ride and drive in a first gen LS as you claimed... You ought to know a lifer when you see one. Are you going to post this one three times too? Talk about tooting your own horn...

Just so that I know what you mean by this... Your quote: " just spend some time getting your facts straight. When you can carry on an intelligent conversation based on facts, then you can work on your silly retorts".

What exactly are you referring to? Are you saying that while employed as a BMW New Car Manager for 6 years I didn't participate in re-purchasing a single 2002 BMW 7 series sedan? And you know this how?

the benchmark and the most techno advanced.....i think not, maybe the Xj and A8

I second that, mathematics really doesn't pay what it used to. I'm curious though, at what acquisition price would a 4 point delta in rate equal a 20% savings? And would the term have anything to do with it?

And while we're on the subject, what about the 6 point average delta between the residual amounts on a lease between the Lexus and BMW? For instance, how does a $50k Bimmer lease for less than a $35k Lexus?

Never mind, as Kthor pointed out this could end badly.

not to mention, the HIGH REGARD there is for toyota engineering across the planet. esp. in third world countries where they can not be taking their vehicles to the service bay every other month.