Autobild: BMW 750i vs Audi A8 4.2 Quattro vs Mercedes S500 vs Lexus LS460

I'm struck by some of the comments about the Lexus. Extremely poor resale value? Cheap interior? I'm not a fan of Lexus vehicles but this strikes me as a bit harsh!

Actually, I have read a few review where they cite the LS interior as being good, but not really on the same level as that of the Audi A8 and Mercedes S class and now the new BMW 7 series.

From personal experience I would have to agree with this notion. The LS interior does strike me as being a bit on the cheap side and that wood looks awfully fake.

Well what do you expect from a Camry based vehicle? (This one should stir our Tuesday up a little)

Yeah, that's highly suspect.

Check on the history of this magazine before drawing conclusions.

It's okay blackbr, you can actually use the words bull and shit if you want to. For instance, for dramatic license please allow me to re-quote you using the words bull and shit, it looks something like this... "I'm struck by some of the comments about the Lexus. Extremely poor resale value? Cheap interior? I'm not a fan of Lexus vehicles but this strikes me as Bull Shit"!(sic) See, isn't that better?

001, You have outdone yourself with this new face of Autospies. I haven't navigated the entire website yet but from the looks alone you get an A+. I've been a Spies reader since your poor days and this is by far the greatest improvement you've made. Congratulations!

About this article...After carefully reading Autobild's list, I have to agree 100%, especially about the Audi. Things will surely change when the new A8 gets introduced but as of now this is a fair list.

GT you're such a kiss-ass. Agent 001, the changes are actually frustrating. One can no longer properly structure an essay with a measurable amount of reading ease, the posts now read as one long sentence. For those "agents" who do not struggle with vision problems this may be fine, for those of us that do, the text layout is fatiguing. Also, it would be nice if autospies had a U2U feature similar to (if not exactly like) the U2U feature found on Above Top Secret.com. That way, if some of us "agents" have personal issues, we can keep them personal. For instance take "agent" kthor, that spineless, pathetic, little weasel of a man (sic) has posted the photograph of an individual (he thinks is me) on a profile he created and named Obesepig (check the IP addresses, I'm sure they'll match). Now, I'm certain the man actually photographed in this profile would fail to find any humor in this, nor appreciate the many posts discussing his physical appearance, and the size, shape, and condition of his colon. None the less, I have no way of getting this message to "agent" kthor without it being a matter of public record. In my defense, I have asked "agent" kthor to at the very least, kindly remove the mans photograph from the profile, (see post in DETROIT AUTO SHOW: 2010 Cadillac SRX Re-styled) but unfortunately I had to do so in a public post. So a U2U feature would actually be very helpful. Now, the man photographed in the "obesepig" profile is Scott Roberts, Mr Roberts is the general sales manager at Lexus of Melbourne in central Florida. Since he and I ARE NOT one and the same, (which I have tried to communicate to "agent" kthor) I highly recommend someone, perhaps you, remove the profile and posts before Mr Roberts discovers what "agent" kthor has done to defame his character. One can only imagine the financial and legal hardship Mr. Roberts could unleash upon the owners and directors of this site for allowing such defamation to continue. May I also suggest agent 001, that you impose a permanent posting ban on "agent" kthor, and any and all logon profiles associated with his IP address (I believe he has no less than three). I would then follow this posting ban with a blast email to all agents reminding them that malicious impersonation of actual citizens is not within the spirit of autospies.com, and may actually violate terms & conditions, and maybe even a few pesky laws. If you wish to discuss this matter further, I believe you have my email address.

The A8 is showing its age here.

The new 750 is so refined than any other car in this class its not funny.,...yeah yeah it doest have the flash and flair of the MAYBACH OOPS IM SORRY DID I SAY THAT....I MEANT THE S-CLASS AND THE LEXUS LS460...BUT BMW as we still know today knows how to make a complete package and put it together. They are hating on the A8 because it was made 5 years ago and its technology and exterior and interior package doesnt stand up to the newly made models out there right now...so you really cant put the A8 in last place until the new one comes out. But again BMW seems to be the one to beat again..GO BMW

so 750 is first. how old is benz and Lexus?

+1 The LS has been a bit overrated for some time now. Contrary to popular opinion, it is based on the Camry, just as the LS400 was based on the old Cresida.

Another German publication, how surprising the results.

The editors of Autobild obviously are not potential buyers in this class of automobile--otherwise they would have put the premium on ride, not handling and the S-class would have edged out the new BMW (good, not great, handling should be important even among full-sized luxury cars, but it should be secondary to ride). Automotive writers should always consider who the cars are marketed to when considering which car is best instead of always applying the "enthusiast" yardstick of handling and performance.
I don't have a favorite in this category, I think they all have a high level of technology/gadgetry and a high build quality. I think the S-class is a little funny looking, the A8's styling is bland and, in the above pictures the LS and 7 look strikingly similar.
BW

I think it's sad that the A8's looks are so underrated. No, it may not be the technological powerhouse that these other sedans are, but it's one of the classiest cars on the road today. So polished, with perfect proportions. If you don't like the looks you simply lack taste.

BobW, you said, "Automotive writers should always consider who the cars are marketed to when considering which car is best..." The German cars here are marketed to AutoBahn, AutoStrada, Autoroute, Motorway, Motorvej, Autoput, Motorväg, Dálnice, Moottoritie, and Autosnelweg drivers who value true high performance on high speed motorways. So it would seem that the article writers are certainly placing value on the highest quality of a true luxury car - the ability to maintain control and comfort at high speeds on twisty, hilly motorways. Not every market in the world values boulevard cruising. Since their readers primarily live and drive on these roads it follows that they will review the cars with this end user in mind doesn't it?

yeah you cant hide the truth

Point taken. However, I'm not discounting the need for a good handling luxury car (as stated in my comment), it's just that that function will always be subordinate to ride quality in this sector. Even in the German market owners of the S, 7's, A8's, etc. are older drivers who put the premium on a quiet, great riding car over stiffer, sport oriented ride. These are after all, luxury cars, not sport sedans--if a buyer didn't want the luxury of a serene, smooth ride they would buy an M5.

BobW, I believe the only claim you can logically make here is that YOU favor ride over handling, not that the market in general does. I prefer safety over cushy myself (ie handling, braking, body control over floatiness and isolated controls). In my experience driving Lexus cars I don't experience a high level of quietness and isolation in the ride as much as in the controls. The steering and brakes feel numb, almost transistorized, and that is opposite of relaxing for me at 225 kph.

America,
I drive a Honda S2000, I hardly think it can be argued that I favor ride over handling. But after selling M-B's for 15 years I can tell you that S-class customers (including Europeans and Asians I sold to) preferred ride over handling. Again, not the cushy traditional American luxury-barge kind of ride, or the somewhat better Lexus approach, but the European way of good body control and predictable, stable handlinge. Still though, a smooth, quiet ride was, and is, most important to luxury car buyers. Again, a large luxury car is always about luxury, not sportiness. And by there nature, big heavy bodies and long wheelbases, they are not able to really handle that well. Honestly, when do you think you'll ever see a new 7-series show up for hot laps at a track day? Never. What would be the point? A good ride (not the floaty, over-sprung-under-damped kind you seem to think I'm referring to) trumps great handling in large luxury cars.
Thanks for your comments, that's all I'm saying on the matter.

The problem with your conclusion is that your sample set is skewed: people who chose to buy softer handling Mercedes. If you spent the same amount of time selling BMW's you may have another view point. No one says that a 7 Series is for track days. That's just being silly. A 7 is more responsive, lively, and entertaining to drive. To many, CONTROL and INTERACTIVITY are the highest forms of luxury. (And the BMW ride is wonderful in case you haven't spent several hours straight in one.)

My personal ranking if I was in the market to buy one of these large lux sedans.

1) Mercedes S550 4MATIC: S-Class is an amazing car. Throw in AWD for New England winters and the AMG sport package (those wheels look amazing) and it is the winner in my book and still the benchmark.

2)BMW 750i: I have yet to see the new 7 in person, but I'm really starting to like the look from the pictures. It's a BMW so it will handle great as well. I wonder if it will eventually come with xDrive.

3) Audi A8: I've never been a fan of the D3's styling. The D2 S8 is still one of the best looking sedans ever made (especially after seeing Ronin). This car is long in the tooth, but I'm sure the upcoming A8 will be very competitive.

4) Lexus LS: As a car enthusiast, I have no interest in this car. It is perfect for someone who wants to get from point A to point B in isolation not knowing they are really driving a car. That's just not me...I need some involvement.

How come the line breaks I inserted into my comments in the text box aren't reflected in the actual posting?

PLEASE FELLAS THE NEW SCLASS CANT BEAT BMW IN AN ALL AROUND PACKAGE...PLUS THE SCLASS BORROWED WAY TOO MUCH FROM THE MAYBACH 57/62. iF i HAD A MAYBACK i WOULD would trade it in for a flying spur or a ROLLS ROYCE DROP HEAD COUPE BECAUSE WITH THE BABYBACH (NEW S-CLASS) ITS LIKE YOUR TRYING TO HARD TO HAVE A MAYBACH.....I DONT CARE WHAT ALL YOU BENZ JUNKIES THINK i AM GOING BY WHAT I SEE!!!!

Come on, stop with your bulls**t.

A to B rite - u nd ur AWDs - LS has manual gear control which lets u hold the gear rite @ redline w/o upshift w/ full turn off capability for Trac. cntrl. Atleast it'll let u power slide & full rear tire spin to point B.

This article is great for two reasons:
1. Finally someone has the guts to call out Lexus on the interiors.
2. First BMW article ever to not list the Idrive as a negative.

Autobild is famous for pro-German auto reviews. If you believe that the Lexus interior is "cheap" or that it has a poor resale value as compared to the others, than
you are dumber than the writer of this crap.

You never sat in any of these cars. That is the only logical conclusion I can make from your comments. How can a 14 year old kid be so stupid. Ask your mum if she can take you to some dealerships one day after school, and take the time to sit in some of these cars before getting sucked-in by everything you read on the internet. What a dope.

Come on, stop with the bulls**t.

Wow, a thread the german fanboys can drool over... WooHoo! It's the comparison we've been waiting for... A german magazine with no bias what so ever. The only surprise is the last place finish. MB must have pulled their ad budget for autobild. Congrats BMW, now if you can just keep that euro trash out of the shop!

I find myself in an interesting position to comment because a) I am half German and also have a slight nationalistic tendency to support German products and b) I drive a Lexus LS460. Overall I consider myself a rational buyer rather than a fanboy. A lot of the purchase decision factors such as resale, importance of fuel economy etc depend on local market conditions. For example Lexus in Germany has very poor resale, but in the US and Middle East for example, resale is high. Local dealer network, service, driving qualities vs road conditions and even pricing are highly local issues.

I live in Dubai, and here the considerations are price, options, dealer strength, resale, fuel etc. Every buyer also has different LS is expensive ($85-100K) but still cheaper than the German trio. For the same money you get an Audi A8 3.2 and cannot even get an S350, so price is important. Service and parts of Lexus are much cheaper than Germans, although service intervals are more frequent. Quality and long term reliability may or may not be better with Lexus.

As a young guy I found the S too staid and expensive, the 750 and A8 too dated. My ideal car would be a new 7, but the idrive is still a big worry. I found the LS Middle East spec to have a sporty look, and I appreciated the quietness on new Dubai roads and the awesome stereo and gadgetry. Those are things I value, in addition to fuel efficiency (Lexus is strong here). The interface vs iDrive and COMAND is also better in my book. However, I concur with AutoBild that the interior is not as exquisite as the Germans. The woodgrain, the inexcusably cheap looking dash clock, weak side bolster support are not as good as Germans. I also can confirm the mushy brakes, navigation while driving issue, and would add bodyroll/handling. The lack of interior color choices is also a bit annoying.

Choosing the car for you depends on many individual preferences and local considerations, there is no right answer here. I am happy with my LS but am looking fwd to the next Audi A8, which may be my ideal car. Till then, I think I made a sensible choice and can live with the compromises with the LS, as the alternatives also have their own imperfections.

Well done BMW! I think BMW out done themselves with the new 7 series. It does everything right and I think it deserves the top spot. MB being a close second.

And as one of the members mentioned, the new autospies is awesome. Keep up the good job guys!

Surprised to see Lexus not finished last, any way the 7 negatives mentioned of LS, (where as no more than 3 negatives are mentioned of each German car) most of them are worng or subjective.

btw new Autospies design looks very good. Good work.

JUGNU

autobild - joke
there LS came with cloth seats lol

The Lexus LS460/600 hl is on bar with the Audi A8. The Lexus LS460/600 hl has the best interior in it class for sure. When the Lexus first came out last year they compare it interior and technology to a $1+ millions private jet. When was the last time the 7 Series, S-Class, or Audi A8 was compare to $1 million private jet?

And didn't the Lexus LS win Car of the World of The Year for 2007 or 2008 award? That what I thought.

What the hell are you talking about?

A million dollar private jet is not going to be as nice as you might think. Now a ten-million dollar private jet is another matter.

If you want to talk about about cheap interior design BMW win in that category. But if you a true Luxury interior design in a premium car, Lexus, Audi, and MB is the way to go.

Ok i just read the pro's and con's for all the cars tested. I still can't figure out how the BMW beat the s-class. If the suspension on a LUXURY car is harsh and the comfort is just AVERAGE how can you be the best premium luxury car? Simply you can't! It seems as though journalist can't seem to distinguish the difference between a luxury car and a sports car. They serve two different purposes.

You mean to tell me the heavier 6speed 400+hp 4.4L TT BMW gets better mpgs than the lighter, 8speed Lexus? What did it get? Like a 1/4 of a mpg better?

Like I said earlier, check the rep of this rag magazine.

Like I said earlier Chuck, you are full of sh*t. You have never been in any of the cars mentioned in this article, let alone taken a drive in an LS.

What can you expect from these arrogant Europeans? American people have voted. Lexus is still the No. 1 selling luxury brand!

Lexus is getting respect in England now. Someone from there said "...doesn't matter what series BM u get around here, ur exclusive status w/ the GS or LS, rite below RR/Bentley." -hey someone from England said that

That 1st gear in the LS is no joke - turn off Trac. Ctrl./VDC, put gear in manual, & hold it near redline in 1st - sweet, but rear tires won't be.

750 or s550 , love both , interior i have to give to S , exterior 750>s550 , but 750<S63/65 amg , and handling shouldn't be even mentioned much here , they are luxury cars and for a luxury car s550 hanles way too good , however it may feel nice for a huge car like that to handle like m3 , lol audi is old it shouldn't be compared untill the new model comes out wich is going to look same exact but with led headlights lol , and lexus is a nice car but interior is cheaper than s550 in terms of meterials and built quality , not design , but I dont like lexus because it drives like a boat , and the car just has no character , but it is a great car so stop fighting everybody lol

Noticed that MB,s second place are based on economy only. I don´t think buyers in this division care about costs, they buy what they prefer to show public their identification.

Sad but true, the quality of more recent Lexus models has really declined. I worked for Lexus for 7 years, and the quality of all the latest body styles just isn't there anymore. This has been reflected by the overall resale value of the LS, you can pick up a 2007 in the high 30's now.

Additionally, the interior materials have gotten much worse. Lexus now uses a substantial amount of recycled plastics and polymers, and they do not wear well. Vehicles with Cashmere or Black interiors, show a lot of wear especially on the seats, even with the semi aniline leather option.

The LS also has been fraught with lots of complaints about the aforementioned brakes, vibrations from the Dunlop tires, rock chips and scratches showing up due to thinner paint, and wind noise around the mirrors. All in all, very disappointing none the less, and not Lexus like.

Wow! Sounds like the Toy/Lex haters are trying to go it alone and take their hate to another level. Well you can believe Toyota will take it to the next level and up the anti. Have no fear fanboys, you don't have to win'em all just consistant 7 out of 10. That's how Toyota well established image is in the eyes of the consumer...out of every purchase made there is a high probability,7 out of 10,a Toyota was driven home and not returned.