B8 Audi S4 vs. BMW 335i xDrive vs. Mitsubishi Lancer Evo

Soo to all of you who say the s4 "always" competed with the 335xi, it should be noted that the 335 replaced the 330 in 2007, the so a year later. With that said, prior to 07 the v8 340hp s4 competed with the i6 250hp 330i? Every car mag, editor, car enthusiast associates/we the s4 and m3 as natural competitors. From top gear to motortrend, car driver, autocar express. Bmw blows the comp away with it's n54 and now it moves up a class? I am not saying the S 4 isn't iconic, love the car, always loved audi interiors but you guys are comparing the wrong models.

How ever you wish to twist and turn it, the E90 debuted in 2005, the B8 in 2007. Audi's design is 2 years younger. BMW's next design will best the Audi, so on and so forth. It's the circle of life in the automotive world. To sit there and gawk at every INEVITABLE move these auto makers make is ridiculous.

My question:

Why and when did the S start competing with the regular i instead of the M?

Back when the Audi S2 had 230hp, the E36 M3 had 280hp and the RS2 had 315hp.

What was the excuse when the 335i was trashing the old A4? If you want to play it that way these cars can NEVER be compared fairly. The best we can do is compare them as they are now.

audi is crazy they wanted 905 a month to lease a loaded a5. nice looking great cars not worth the money. i called the manager and said i can lease an m3 for 770 oh and its a convertable he said he may be able to get the s5 for me for 905 instead of the a. i said thanks alot. and to the guy that asked when did s compete with regular 335 when audi added the rs models. fyi i got the M. also evo great car shouldnt be in this comparison

I understand your comments but you also have to understand that the A/S5 has a much higher demand for its availability than the M3 does. And this is why they can command such a high price for them.

That's pretty funny StarSearch because EVERY S5 they bring here is sold. It's among the quickest cars to move off dealer lots. The M3s, unfortunately, are sitting on lots collecting dust. They can now be had for a song--less than the S5 most likely. I would buy one if I were in the market (over an S5 in a heartbeat).

I guess you could say the S5's demand is manipulated, but I wouldn't expect them to ship over 1,000 A5/S5s to the US every month. Aside from the fact that the US is not even among their top three biggest markets, the A5/S5 is a niche product. What they are selling now is very impressive IMO.

Very nice performance from the S4. It's really positioned to be above the 335i and below the M3 in performance. In another German test the S4 was half a second quicker to 60 than the 335i, and kept on increasing its lead as the speeds climbed.

Not so long ago, the S4 used to be competing with the BMW M3. So I think it's very unfair to compare the 335i to the S4, for obvious reasons. It costs more, and it has a bigger engine. Audi does not have a direct competitor to the 335i, although the A4 3.2 is supposed to be the competitor, but the 335i steps all over it.

The S4 never competed against the M3. It was always slotted between the M3 and top model of the normal 3 series.

1994 -
S2 230hp
M3 280hp
RS2 315hp

1999 -
S4 265hp
M3 320hp
RS4 380hp

It was because of the fact the E46 M3 only had a minor power boost over the E36 the S4 kind of overshot the M3 in power.

your wrong heyhuub the S4 always competed with the M3 in fact the e46 M3 had less power than the S4 did, and in previous generations they were also very close with the M3 edging it out in power. They also have been about the same price until the current generations when BMW priced the M3 alot higher than previously. SO maybe you should check your facts.

Well, bmwdrvr, now the M3 is far more expensive and the S4 is far less expensive. Audi hasn't moved down. BMW has moved up. BMW positions the M3 to compete with the RS4 now--it has a similar V8 and a similar sticker. What the hell more do you want???

You bmw fans are morons, S4 IS MADE FOR 335i just for it and RS4 FOR M3 SALOON, so shut up if you don't know nothing about S4...S4 is crazy more fun 2 drive than 335i especially that has the new sport differential. you all are envy when bmw AGAIN loses in front of Audi... and where is that BMW who makes the best engines in the world? For example V10 higly aspirated engine in R8 V10 has a redline at 8700rpm, BMW only at 8400 the M3 engine, so where is BMW? Nowhere near to Audi...are so many morons who die in BMW's every year especially in winter times and also on summer where BMW handlling is so "good" and they hit the wall at high speeed...that's handlling?:)) yeah yeah right... handlling means performance,acceleration and grip to the corners and BMW doesn't have handlling at all... they can't even pun a real LSD differential on the back... so shut up again...long live America's thoughts:BMW BMW BMW...in your dreams bmw loosers!!!VORSPRUNG DURCH TECHNIK...

It's comments like that that really annoy me. I drive a S4 myself so I'm biased as well but there's no way you can really say anything bad about the 335. You can complain about the X drive but everybody knows that it's pretty much an afterthought for BMW. It's main product is a RWD car b/c that's the best for track driving. But it has a fantastic engine; very smooth and the power is available. It's also riding on a chassis that's a few years old...but I also said that when the 335 first came out and the S4 chassis was a couple years old. It's that never ending cycle between BMW and Audi. I swear the higher ups in those companies are secret handshakers that try to drive each other's sales up by alternating new model releases every few years so that the new model is always competing against an older one.

So kudos to Audi for making an elegant car with better driving dynamics than what is currently available. It's just a matter of time before somebody else makes something just slightly better.

On a final note...if you still think that the M3 is the S4's direct competitor, just please leave this site. Or at least keep your comments to yourself b/c you're just making an idiot out of yourself.

are you really serious comparing the r8 v10 which isnt even out yet to an m3. the r8 is 120k to buy and leases for 3000 a month who knows what the v10 is going to be. the m3 is 65k. the a5 3.2 is a dog and the s5 loses to the 335i coupe. audi finally stepped up with the new s4 but its 3 years late just like the new rs5 is going to pass the m when it comes out in october again 4 years late and then try to get one it will be way overpriced like all audis are. audi makes a great car just performance and price are not justified. if they were justified i would have gotten the audi i could have gotten any car i wanted i chose the M3 the best there is for the price i got it for. did i want the s5 yes but 1000 a month for a 60k car i dont think so

markanthony0419 - "the s5 loses to the 335i coupe" can you please post a link or mail me an article or some sort of fact. i have never (did i mention never?) seen a comparison video or read an article where the 335i beat the S5.

Until Audi makes a rear drive platform only, I'd leave it alone buddy. The S4 and RS4 both have quattro because without it a 335 or M3 would eat it alive. FrontTrak is for FallingstarRiders. Cheers mate.

It's worth noting that the best handling car in this comparison was the Mitsu Evo X. It's got the most points in the slalom and was the quickest around the track. It's the only one car offering real all wheel torque vectoring with rear active AYC, front TORSEN and center active limited slip differential. Subaru Impreza is also capable of vectoring torque among all wheels, however its design (with TORSEN rear diff) cannot induce desired behavior, only instantly react to changing condition, resulting in more neutral rather than aggressive attitude. Evo X is just plan and simply impossible to beat. ||| And if you want to know why Audi won this comparison, the key reason is that equipment that made Audi superior has not been available on a 3-series. Maybe BMW is gonna change that later when they catch up with developing/testing all the combinations. S4 scored more points in the steering category than the 3er (!!!) because BMW does not offer active, variable-ratio steering for its xDrive models while Audi does so for quattro. Same with the rear diff. As for now, BMW does not offer its torque-vectoring active rear diff as seen in the X6 for its lower end models while Audi does so for the quattro. Same with the gearbox. Audi can be specified with the 7-speed double clutch gearbox which is currently available in a rear-wheel-drive 3-series coupe only, not xDrive sedan. If you, on the other hand, compared the BMW car with all these things on-board (like the mentioned X6) with some Q7/Q5, it would win in the same fashion. Maybe BMW will deploy the active steering, active rear differential and the 7-speed double clutch gearbox across the all range of 335i soon, then the comparison would be fully representative. As for now though, Audi is ahead of BMW in terms of combining all the newest technology in one car.

Where was the WRX in this comparo?

And that means VORPRUNG DURCH TECHNIK... Audi means technology and advanced 4WD handlling! Drifting is a crap, if you want REAL senzations you enter with more speed in a corner and you'll see why 4WD is WAY BETTER THAN RWD or even XDRIVE 4WD, but let me think...ahhh BMW sells 99% of their cars only RWD so doesn't matter at all that 1% of BMW have XDRIVE... And also i would like to say that i've just drived the new X5 and new 7 series with active steering and i was NOT IMPRESSED by the steering noise, it sounds like it was an old "70 truck trying to steer to park it, it makes so annoying noices that you can't forget that...it sounds like metal scratching metal and feels like the steering is braking down as you steer when parking or taking corners roughly... that's technology?HAHAHA... And then again i spoken with the dealer and he told me that clients are buying other luxury saloons because of the fact that new 7 series does not have XDRIVE 4WD... i laughed of course, because it's idiocracy that 7 series with all that technology doesn't provide XDRIVE, for God sake it's a big saloon and big engine and more weight that even S Class 750i... almost 2.2 tons vs S8 which has 1900kg...BMW handlling at that weight? be serios... and that cockpit with orange led's looks awful, only when the angel shittie eyes are on not bi-xenon, informational speedometer and tourometer are luminated in white, but then again when is night you must get on xenon so it's becoming again that annoying cheep orange colour...

Not everyone wants AWD, its heavy. Ill take a RWD 335i

vorschprung durch technik...my mistake...:P

Anyone who has ever driven an 'X' vehicle from BMW will know that it was never designed with high performance in mind...sporty, yes! High Performance...not even close. I can't remember any vehicle that BMW has ever sold that was an 'X' vehicle and high performance at the same time. I'm not making excuses for BMW but the person buying such a vehicle should know two things 1) Sport Suspension or options are generally NOT available on any 'X' vehicle. 2) If you want a high performance premium AWD vehicle then Audi is your best bet

The 2009 Audi S4 has defeated a Rear Wheel Drive BMW 335i with the sport suspension.

Case closed.

Audi's 2009 B8 S4 was, from day ONE, designed to compete with BMW's 335i.

BMW 335i horsepower rating: 300 (likely understated and is actually 325 hp)
Audi S4 horsepower rating: 333

BMW M3 horsepower rating: 420 (by the way this was done to match the RS4's)
Audi RS4 horsepower rating: 420

Furthermore, the 335i will receive a minor power boost to reveal what has likely been all along its true horsepower rating.

You simply can't argue with these horsepower figures.

but why compare them with horsepower? Why not with price? Isn't it all about the most you can get for your money?

Yes. In price:

335 xDrive with options easily goes over $50K.

S4 with options is around $55k. At the most, the comparable cars will have a $5K difference. From that extra money you get a slightly faster, more efficient, larger and more luxurious car.

M3 coupe with options approaches $70K. An M3 vert with all the goodies is $82K.

B7 RS4 was $65K at the beginning of its life and about $70K at the end. It always had only one $2,000 option package.

budfrog there is artificial demand for the a5/s5 but each audi dealership i went to had either i could have gotten that day. audi isnt sending them here because of the low dollar they are sending them to china and india. so is that really demand when there is only 2 when there use to be 10? my point was 905 for an a5 that would get smoked by a honda accord. you cant be serious when you say you would take an a5 over an m3 or even an s5 and believe me i wanted the audi just couldnt compare i am no bmw fan boy just went with the best deal.

I love what Audi has been doing to their new models lately but don't forget that for the past 20 years BMW has been the one to set the example and have most of the makes follow.

If you go back and check all the roadandtrack, CarANDDriver, etc. in the 90's and early 00's, they've all compared the S4 to the M3. Makes sense since they are closer at price. There is almost a $10K price difference between 335i and S4 and only 4k difference between S4 and M3. Only reason magazines don't compare A4(same price) with 335i is because there's no fun to it. It's obvious who will win. Oh, and how can you compare M3 with RS4 when there is a 10k price difference?

Need4Speed, I completely agree with you regarding the xdrive models.

SuperstarDriver, relax man! Why are you so angry?

lol this poster is funny with post that for whatever reason seem to always show some rediculous Bias towards Audi, and a hatred of BMW, the funny thing is those exact same mags claimed the RS4 was a better car than the new M3 and trashed the M3 saying how soft it was, yet when EVERY other mag compared the 2 the RS4 of course lost, and the BMW continued to be regarded as best in class. When I get a legitimate test showing this fine, otherwise Germannut keep your unfounded bias in check im getting tired of you trying to prove Audis compromised cars are better than the benchmarks they chase lol. But hey at least they found a way to be as fast as the 335i with out getting 13 17 now in 09 lol

bmwdrvr, don't feel bad the S4 rips the 335i a new one, on many occasions at that.

Price is not a fair point of comparison between two cars. Horsepower rating is a better indication of what the true performance intentions are of a car.

Audi has always charged premiums for their S and RS models and will continue to do so.

Like I said bmwdrvr, just wait until Car and Driver and Motortrend get their hands on the S4. It will do the same thing to the BMW 335i as it has done in the Euro magazine comparison tests.

Benchmarks they chase lol? How can a car be a benchmark if starts losing consistently to its competitor?

Don't worry the S4 will be sure to put the 335 in its place a few more times. Go cry how the M3 should be compared to the S4 when there is only a 33 horsepower difference between the S4 and 335i (in reality, it is probably only a 3 horsepower difference as the 335 has consistently been rumored to understate its true horsepower numbers, which will soon be revealed via the power upgrade). The M3 and S4 have an 87 horsepower difference between the, (S4: 333 M3: 420)

"Price is not a fair point of comparison between two cars. Horsepower rating is a better indication of what the true performance intentions are of a car."

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard! Come on, you've got to be smarter than that :-/

How do you think all of these car companies run? Just build a car, give it enough horsepower as its competitor, randomly price it $10K higher and call it a day? Umm...NO! People don't just have money to throw and car companies know that.

And Horsepower is not a better indication of what the true performance intentions are because in that case how can you possibly compare an S600 with an M5, M6 with an F430, Charger with an RS4, etc...

GermanNut, stop being ridiculous by saying "price is not a fair point of comparison between two cars". Price is the absolutely BEST way to compare two cars because it answers a simple question - how much do I get for your money. And in Germany, the manual 335xi xDrive sedan comes for 44,500EUR while the manual S4 quattro (without the active differential and active steering obviously) is for 51,000EUR. You can buy a lot of extras for 5,500EUR~=7,200USD and and we all know additional stuff on Audis is horribly expensive. Adding 50% to the price just requires a few more interesting options checked.

In the Auto Motor und Sport test the Audi S4 truly showed its performance intentions:

From 0-100 km/h: Audi S4 took 5.0 seconds BMW 335i took 5.5 seconds

From 0-160 km/h: Audi S4 took 11.5 seconds BMW 335i took 12.7 seconds

From 0-200 km/h Audi S4 took 18.6 seconds BMW 335i took 21.2 seconds

Look at the Audi S4 starting out with a 0.5 second advantage to 60 mph and then totally crushing the BMW 335i by the time the speed reaches 120 mph with a 2.5 second difference.

And that was the slowest performance test that has been done on the 335. How did the 335 lose over .5 second in performance for this test? There are more than enough articles from edmunds to car & driver, to motortrend, etc that have the 335 sedan at under 5 seconds.

335 doesn't handle well at all, sprinkle a little dirt or even some camber on the road and it'll handle with as much confidence as a prius. BMW are for meant for "perfect" road conditions, on anything else you're better off driving a toyota.

S4 wouldn't either w/ Frontrak. C'mon man. BMW's been making rear drive, super handling cars for decades. Audi has to use quattro to compete. Quattro is not a bandaid.

i eat magazines and drived a lot of cars in my life, but never ever was happy enough when driving an BMW, because are too oversteer cars than Mercedes Benz for example, i need grip no drift and BMW can't manage that for me... If 90% of morons seems to like ONLY DRIFT CARS are their problem, but the whole capability of a car it's not even close to drifting, it's handlling, grip, steering feeling, speed in corners and acceleration figures but also the most important think is SECURITY, the feeling that the car doesn't loose control in corners or on bad weather, even on soft rain weather in an Audi you can have more speed and safety in the same time, so if someone will have to think twice when buying an BMW because only 40% of the days the sky is blue and the road is clean... And then again Audi S/RS cars are so expensive because are best in class and the technology used to build their cars are more expensive and exclusive vs BMW cars and M also... For example i was reading someone post about that Audi having the best technology possible, that's right... why is M cars don't have ceramic brakes, adaptive dampers or even MagneRide? Why don't have flat bottom steering wheel and great cockpit? Why? Because they can't...also the newly developed V10 TT and V10 FSI from RS6 and R8 V10 are humiliating every other BMW engine in any category, from sound to performance and torque figures... so then again BMW looses even on their teritory:engines!

AWD is for people who can't drive! People like you need that extra "SECURITY" and that is fine too. Yes AWD is much better in rain but should you be testing a car's limits in the rain? NO! Why doesn't Ferrari make AWD cars then? They seem to grip just fine. On track, M3 > RS4, M5 still > RS6 (don't speak so highly of its engine...it's twin turbocharged...my grandmother can make a 600hp engine using those)

"Why doesn't Ferrari make AWD cars then?" How about Formula 1? Cuz the driver would fall asleep!

Ohh... OK... so that is your problem... you can't drive RWD cars. Why didn't you said so earlier. Now... I don't know what BMW you drove (or how were you driving it), but BMWs are set from the factory, intentionally, to understeer a little, even though, almost every model in their lineup are near neutral (you know... 50/50 weight distribution...)

I am sure that what I just wrote above, doesn't interest you much, so why don't you go ahead and kiss your Audi, cause it is build exactly for you.

Skip Barber could probably help you with learning how to drive real cars.

NO correction needed. You are 100% right!

My dear friend RS4 engine has 101HP/L and R8 V10 has again 101HP/L both high revv engines and both are very likely to be at least the best engines in their class or one of the best, also the LP560-4 engine is made BY AUDI ENGINEERS NOT LAMBORGHINI and is 100% AUDI PROPERTY, so don't botter to tell me who makes the best engines in the world, or one of the best. And another thing mister "smart guy" if you ever enter in an 3 series saloon you've noticed that it looks and feels like an '80s bmw cockpit, it's to nasty, ugly and bad designed that you can't forgot about it, you are staying in the cockpit when you drive the car not on the roof so you need to like the cockpit and that obvious it's not even close to beautiful vs A4/A5 and C Klass for example!
On the other hand S4 was developed to be the rival of 335i saloon not M3, when did your brain came out with this stupid idea? When a magazine compared an S4 to M3? You are insane and then again like someone said for that kind of money you'll get a lot more of optionals as standard vs 335i... And the mean while if you ever drive an 335i you will definitively feel that car lacks on grip and handlling in corners, i can drive much faster and C350 than an 335i saloon in the corners, both without ESP on, but then again that's me, the "unxperience moron" who don't know to drive an RWD cars, yeah right...so why i cand push it to the limit an Aston Martin, an Porsche, an Mercedes with PROPRER LSD on the back and never made an mistake and BMW can handlle grip? Why tuners are making LSD for BMW, because they KNOW their differentials are crap and they can't putting power to the ground almost at all... Why an M6 looses in front of an Aston Martin with 385HP when M6 has 507 at Topgear? Why? Because BMW can't make a proper sportscar with enough grip...

The mere fact that you compared the handling of a C350 against a 335 leads me to believe that you're making all of this up. Benz has always played 2nd fiddle to BMW regarding driving dynamics.

Instead of eating magazines, maybe you should read them.

BMW makes the best engines in the world. learn something.

None of this matters as people will buy whatever suits their taste and budget the best. If I want an Evo I'd get an Evo. The same with BMW, Audi, MB, etc. It's always been my view though that the top tier for performance in MB has been their AMGs, for BMWs their M series, and for Audi their RS series. The S is just an incremental upgrade to Audi's A series in performance and price.

All of you bitches are somewhat right and somewhat wrong.

There was a time when the S4 and the M3 did compete - B6 era. The S4 didn't fare well. Moreover, Audi's next fastest (A4 2.8 with a 6-speed manual) would get rocked by the 328i.

So Audi, fed up with losing to BMW, decided to beat it on two fronts: take the S4 and pit it against the model just below the M3, and make sure it was always half a car better. They achieved this was the B7 S4, which would wipe the floor with the 330i.

Then, create an up-model to take on the M3. Again, make it a half-car better. They did this with the B7 RS4 which absolutely destroyed the then-current M3 (and, quite frankly, can beat out the current-generation as well).

They're doing it again now. The S4 that's going to debut (officially) soon kicks the 335i's ass, but it doesn't take on (and isn't meant to take on) the M3.

That's what the new RS4 will be for, which will come out the year after.

Everyone whining about 'oooh, you should compare the new S4 to the M3' is just pissed because Audi decided to take BMW down on both the 335 and the M3 front. I love BMW, but Audi basically has it beat in terms of the Q-ship competition. Maybe BMW will respond next generation.