If You Can Beat The 3-Series You Win The Game- So WHY Can't Anyone Do it?

Let me know when the UAW makes a good car. I have been waiting for years.

then who is? last time i checked the new c-class came close but no cigar..

don't even mention the lexus or infiniti models! Again, close but no cigar!

well u cant see a car with fake leather??... i cant see a guy thats TALKING about a car with fake leather...

Man. Not you again!!!

Agent 001. Are you comparing the G37 to the 328i or 335i? For the price range, the G37 should be compared to the 328i. The G37 has 100 hp up on the 328i. I have driven both cars extensively, and honestly, I don't see how you can make the proclamation that the 328i is the better car! The G37 is by far the superior car to the 328i in every way.

Investor, yes you do get a lot of options for the money on the G37s...and yes 100hp more...but if you were to experience both cars in long term testing, you'd realize that at the end of the day the 328i is a better built car, more refined, and the driving feel/experience is unmatched.

I'm only 1 1/2 year into my G37S lease and am already looking to upgrade.

The only thing that the G35 (I haven't driven G37) has over the 328i is power. It's like comparing a camera with more MP to a camera with better high ISO performance and dynamic range. The G is faster and looks better on paper but at the end of the day the 3 is more satisfying to drive. I was totally smitten with a 328i xDrive loaner, and I didn't think I would be.

The 335. And YES it does have a price advantage for sure and that is one of its strengths.

But do people want 95% of a 3 for $5k less or is the better strategy to BLOW the 3-Series away for the SAME price?

001

95% of a 3series at 85% of the cost? sounds to me like a no brainer.

oh man, oo1. we've been through this article several times already. the responses are never any different, infiniti fanboys will side with infiniti and samething with BMW. post up news, not flamewars.

Not just my opinion...how many times has the 3-Series been picked the best across the world?

001

IMO, the 3 series has been beaten many time over the years in terms of performance, handling, overall feel, long term ownership, and especially price. The reason why its been winning is just preference.

The 3 Series appeals to many people, but to say that no one has beaten it is not true, the G35 has beaten it in the past, the 3G TL beat it when it debuted and the 4G TL also beat the 335 in a comparo. To some the price is too high for what you get in a 335/328. The interior is definitely not upscale especially with the bland dash, cheap cup holders, and fake leather. I have owned a 3 series in the past, and I like BMWs, but I'm sick of all the praise that is sometimes over-hyped.

If you're going to compare cars price to price like that read consumer reports and park it next to your relaible maytag. In the development of anything it is the last 5% that seperates the men from the boys and it is the most expensive to achive. If you want 95% and save a few bucks then the G37 is your car. If you want 100% refinement then the BMW is currently it for this catagory, the gold standard and demands a premium. G37 targets the price shoppers 335i the performance shoppers.

Hmm, I think everyone are "price shoppers". What, people who are in the market for BMW's have unlimited funds? Hmm, doesn't the G have about the same performance as the BMW?? I guess the economy is so great now people in the market for BMW's don't think about money.

what a lame topic. each car has its strength and weakness, if 3 series is the best in every single aspect, then we wouldn't see any other car in its class sold in U.S. (i.e. you won't see G, TL, IS, C, CTS, A4...). the fact that you do see other cars on the street is more than enough to prove your foolish comment is totally wrong. the 335 (assuming that is the one you are referring to, because 328 really has nothing to show except a badge to badge whore like you) is the best in term of performance, but it is really not impressive in term of interior fit and finish (CTS, A4, IS). the sedan exterior is also not class leading (the coupe, however, is great). the the cabin is not as quite as, say , Lexus (there are people prefer performance and quietness). the ban for the buck for 335 is horrible (yes, no shit money matters, or else everyone would fly a jet plane).

Bmw fit and finish are top notch. Are you on drugs? Ohhh it doesn't have that shiny gaudy wood ie. Lexus.... So naive

The BMW 3-series is always going to be in my garage. I'm on my 4th one, and they keep getting better and better. I'm well aware the G37 is a fantastic car, but I will always pay a premium for the 3'er, it's just so damn good. And without a doubt, it's the best car BMW makes.

Oh Jesus, a BMW fanboi, and a Lexus Fangurl, and both cars are smaller, more expensive, have worse warranty coverage. What price a badge.

Nothing will ever touch BMWs, they are like the bestest pieces of machinery available. They are absolutely fabulous, just like me! Lexus who?

Gotta love bmw fanboys!

If G can command a price of $15000 more and spend 1/4 of that on interior, and put in a twin turbo RB26 engine, believe me, it would've beat 535, not a 335.

I was amazed how well the new G35 drives. The engine, though not as smooth as an I-6, reminds me of that of E46 M3. I prefer it to the turbo 335 engine, which lacks character other than being able to go fast. I guess that's an inevitable loss of going faster, like what the GT-R did.

NA rules!

The G37's engine certainly has a *distinctive* exhaust note, but there is simply nothing like an inline six at full wail. I doubt you've ever heard a 335i at the upper end of its RPM range if you think it lacks character. The VQ sounds like a blender by comparison.

The reason the BMW has done so well over the years is because it's really good at a lot of things. You can't take much issue with that. The magazines that have given the 3 series top billing have focused more on performance than they on just about every other buying motive. For this reason, the car usually finishes first year after year. Not to mention, with the factory support BMW gets, you can lease a $40k car for what a $30k car usually leases for, making it all the more popular.

The 3 series is a really good car, no, it's a great car. I would never take that away from it and there was a time when it was light years ahead of anything in it's class. But these days, to get to the same level of equipment and power as the G37, you will pay a significant premium on the 3 series for a "5%" better car. As someone who can afford either, I don't think a 5% improvement in refinement that wouldn't be noticed by most, or a 5% advantage in performance which could never be exploited by an amateur driver and never on public roads is worth it. I know everyone on autospies thinks they can driver better than Lewis Hamilton, but the fact is, like it or not, less that 1 percent of 3 or G owners will ever be good enough drivers to even come close to exploring the limits of either of these cars, you will chicken out or do something stupid and crash, sorry. The 3 is slightly better if you get the N54 and a manual tranny, but it is not 10K better.

I guess it comes down to do you want to support the innovators and get 100% or the copiers and get 95%. I respect and support the seminal tinkers, because I want more innovation not compromises.

thinkers not tinkers-lol

Agent 63. I've lost confidence in you as an objective reporter/writer. If you're going to talk about the 335i, then at least be honest about it. The BMW 335i with comparable equipment with the automatic transmission (the majority of 335i sold) is $50,000 compared to the $40,000 Infinity G 37 with automatic transmission. That's $10,000 more than the G37, not $5,000. The BMW 335i cost 25% more than the Infinity G37. That is significant.

The reason other manufacturers can't beat the 3-series is b/c BMW keeps beating itself---continually improving their models year in and year out, model change after model change. It's hard to beat a moving target.

Agent001, in January 2009 Germans bought 6.365 units of Audi A4, 5.498 units of Mercedes C-Klasse, 5.116 units of VW Passat and, finally, 3.212 units of BMW 3er, twice less than Audi. In 2008 sales of Audi A4 surpassed BMW 3er as well. Since both cars cost actually the same, this is a clear statement Germans consider A4 as a better vehicle, in fact the best in the mid-size class and since they manufacture best cars overall, I think they know what they claim. You should try the Audi A4 Avant quattro 2.0 TFSI with the S-Tronic gearbox. Put simply, this car beats 3-series in just everything. Drives as well as bimmer does and everything else is better provided by the Audi. You can say the same about the Audi A5/S5. Just try the A5 3.0 TDI S-Line. It kills BMW in everything and if you mean the looks... there's just no comparison with masculine and strong A5 with some sport packages.

"but every mag comparo so far gives the 335 the nod in dry road handling and acceleration."

While I agree that the 335xi competes with the S4, I haven't seen any comparisons yet. Link?

BTW I forgot to mention--while RWD BMWs stomp on Audis in terms of dry performance, xi BMWs are usually spanked by their Quattro-equipped counterparts.

When you’re the car everyone else compares theirs to (for the last 30 years), you are the king. Others are getting close but their compromises have not been sufficient to de-throne. The competition and variety is awesome it makes them all better. This segment would not exists if were not for BMW. The other manufactures are looking for their niche below, super quite, super reliable, really nice interior and all the various combos. It's a performance sedan, it is about dynamic driving, even not at its limit the driving experience in the BMW is currently the best. Yeah some people would rather have quieter etc. but measured as a performance sedan the 3-series has the best priorities as a small performance sedan and has for the last 30 years. It takes being consistently better over an extended period to change the gold standard, not one hit wonders.

"But it's still NOT as good as a 3-Series"... I think this statement has far more to do with your (oft displayed) BMW bias than any credible/measurable criteria.

Just my personal opinion. Here's WHY I think the 3 is better:

It looks better.
The suspension is more sophisticated especially in crisis situations
The G feels way smaller inside to me than a 3. Maybe it's the lower roof but everyone who rode in it agreed.
The trunk is acres smaller.
The 335 get's AT LEAST 3MPG better in every situation.
The resale is better.
Zero cost maintenance.
Higher perceived status.
Better brand heritage.

Those are my observations.

But as I said I think the G is great (really great) and if it was a just for the money thing, the G wins.

So just because I say the 3 wins, that doesn't equate to failure.

I'd buy it before any other car in the segment outside of the 3.

Until of course, the A4's start bringing in the supercharged engines, which is very soon.

Then my ranking would go 3, A4, G37, CTS/C/IS (Tie)

001

But I am genuinely curious to hear WHY no one can beat it or hasn't yet based on the majoroty of reviews around the world.

No one has answered that question yet.

I'm sure they all could if they wanted but there must be an underlying reason why.

For example, I believe Mercedes thinks their customers wouldn't like the stiffer suspensions and think their strategy is better.

Maybe, Infiniti has done the research and it shows its better to undercut than to offer a better product for the same price.

See where I'm going here?

Just trying to get a reason or reasons...

001

It looks better: matter of opinion, I happen to think the G looks better, especially when comparing the sedans

The resale is better: I thought that Autospies reported that Infiniti has better resale over BMW now.

Higher perceived status. Better brand heritage: self declared badge whore.

final analysis: fanboy...

The mere fact that nearly everyone of the comments, even the negative ones, show familiarity with the 3 Series demonstrates that this is the target. It has been for 30 years. The reason no one can beat it is they keep aiming at the target. The competitors are going to have to aim quite a bit higher than where the 3 series is right now in order to surpass it when their new version is released. This is the advantage of being at the top of the heap. All your resources can be spent wisely improving your position while eveyone else continues to play catch up.

Infiniti's G Series is a prime example. It good enough to beat previous generation 3 series but fall short of the mark compared this the current generation.

I don't buy the "you have to compare it to the 328 due to price argument. I'm pretty sure Infiniti wasn't saying to themselves, "Let's build a competitor to the 328 and ignore the upper end of the line up. Infiniti has made it clear they have set their sights on the 335 and M Series.

They should be aiming higher.

another round of applause for lexusfuglyqueen's retarded comment. This post is kind of like asking the question, "Why is F430 the best $200k sports car" or "Why is s550 the best luxury sedan?" Some cars are just created perfectly for their jobs, just like Lexus is for making people fall asleep on the road.

I didn't know that the standard donut wheels for a Suzuki made for a fantastic package. A standard the 3-Series is nothing special in any department.

Oh here we go again

The issue with infiniti, and honestly most of the class by comparison to the 3 series it does 1 or maybe few things well and thats it, the 3 series does all things well is it perfect no, but it isnt bad in any regard. The G for example gets the performance part right, but its unrefined and lacks the interior quality(or real difference from regular nissan products) of the class. The 3 series is a good combination of both luxury, performance, quality, and refinement. Its fast, handles extremely well, without being harsh, or cheaply made. The only car that appears to even be close to being as well rounded as a performance luxury sedan in my opinion is the CTS. The other cars lack in big areas for the most part.

and what Infiniti seems to not understand is that the "luxury"performance class is about more than just performance, sure many cars go fast and handle well, how many can do it and be luxurious and refined at the same time...a much shorter list

Anyone who'd pay $10k premium for BMW over the faster, more powerful, better handling and more reliable G37 has the IQ of a dung beetle. 335i is not only inferior in every way to G37, but has lost the battle already to the last gen G35!... not only that but 2009 G37 ups the ante even more with 7 speed auto, LSD, stiffer chassis, 5.0s to 0-60mph, 13.5 quarter mile, 0.90g skid pad etc... this is a pure sports sedan at its finest, G37 is the champ! fact that this argument it still going on is a testament to how clueless BMW badgewhores are, it's just pure stupidity.... Like I said, BMW fanboys are like dung beetles, they're both naturally drawn to piles of dung :)

"335i is not only inferior in every way to G37, but has lost the battle already to the last gen G35!"
I really dont like to call names on here, but sometimes it's just appropriate; you, dude, sound like an idiot. The g37, despite nissan's 'best' (for them) effort, still plays backup to the 3. Look it up, every review sums it with, close, but not as good. A big swollen rough vibrating v6 isn't enough to suddenly beat the benchmark.

"5.0s to 0-60mph, 13.5 quarter mile, 0.90g skid pad etc... this is a pure sports sedan at its finest, G37 is the champ!"
Sounds close to the 335, except the 3 is faster; so again, the nissan is no champ, but second fiddle once again.

"fact that this argument it still going on is a testament to how clueless BMW badgewhores are, it's just pure stupidity"
No, this argument is going on because nissan fanbois can't accept hearing that their precious sedan is STILL not a winner. If you fools were as savvy as you like to think you are, you would look beyond stats and pricetags. The nissan's rough engine, vibrating shifter, squirrely chassis, cheesy interior trim, etc., are what keeps it in 2nd place.

Your exactly right sector...I've given up on bmw since the 2 I've owned have been in the shop an average of once every 2 weeks. The free service is also a jip. People need to read the fine print on things. Sure, the cars drove great but the thing was always in the shop and I got sick of being upcharged for bs parts

Agreed. The G37 didn't undercut anything when it was being engineered as Agent01 has suggested. The G37 was aimed directly at the 328i since both costs roughly the same, and the G37 smashed it in every category. All the Agents here and other badgewhores like the writers and editors of Car and Driver Magazines will always pick the BMW over everyone else. There is no fair comparison when it comes to these guys.

Just look at the February issue of Car and Driver. It had compared the BMW M3 to the bast Porsche 911 Carrera and unanimously picked the M3 over the base Porsche 911. They claimed that the base 911 was chosen for the competition over the 911 S because the price differences is similar. Well if that is the criteria for choosing which cars should go head-to-head competition, then why not pick the Infinity G37 and compare it to your beloved BMW 328i? They both are similarly priced. I tell you why you all and the magazines wouldn't pick a fair fight is because you will loose and loose horribly. The Infinity G37 will win triumphantly over the BMW 328i in every single category.

If you keep insisting comparing the Infinity G37 to the BMW 335i which costs 25% more than the comparably equiped G37, then when you compare the BMW M3 you should do it with the Porsche 911 S and not the base 911. Just my observation. But you all are so bias and in such a singularity that you have lost all credibility when it comes to the BMW brand. You should just stop comparing BMW to other brand names. You should just say that BMW makes great cars, and no one will argue with you on that point.

the 328i has beaten the G35 in more than one test, not to mention the only area the G can beat either the 328i or 335i is in price, and with the 328i performance. There are alot better choices if you just want a fast car, and until Infiniti the luxury part right it will continue to fall from the benchmark. Being simply fast and cheap sounds like an affordable sports car not a luxury performance sedan. You can claim bias all you want, but it isnt us that makes Infinitis and obviously thousands more people a year want more than a midsize sedan that sounds, drives, and feels like a sports car when buying a "luxury performance sedan". Everything you keep mentioning against the 328i is performance times if thats all you care about why buy either, why not buy an STI or EVO you would be hard pressed to find better performance sedans. Or even a Legacy GT, or G8. If performance numbers are the only thing that wins comparison tests, I mean seriously that makes no sense in the luxury class. It seems infiniti continues to simply attempt to fight BMW on performance numbers, and misses every other area......everyone here that supports the G keeps mentioning power, and times nothing else and thats my point its a fast sedan thats relatively cheap and thats about it.

ok first off i want to say i was the ultimate bmw hater i use to think as good cars for cheaper thus getting an acura tl in 1999 a tl type s in 2003 and a g35 coupe 6 speed in 2006. my car went back this month and it was between the g37 and the 335. now the strongest point the infiniti has is only price and dont tell me different cause i had one and was seconds away from another. after 2 years if you drive 1000 miles a month the g is crap, it rattles the seats squeek and this was not only a problem on the g but the fx as well. i drove the g for 3 years and the g 37 better then the g35 yes but still not the 335. all i can say to the bmw haters out there and i was one was drive one. experience the handling and the work put into the car. it is worth the difference in price period. oh by the way i got an m3 convert lol so i even 1 uped the 335

almost forgot dont forget the little things like free maintenance that bmw offers that all adds up you dont even pay for inspection. if you drive 1000 miles a month thats an oil change 4 times a year 1 break job in 3 years is over 1000 bucks for everything when you add it all up this cuts the price difference. finally if your comparing the 328 to the g37 its not even close you get the g but it still falls short to the 335 even with the price advantage

The "free maintenance" is one of many BMW scams... not only is the cost already built in, it's only good for three oil changes and one tune up (tune up may or may not include brake service, depends on the wear on the brakes). The program is just a ploy by BMW to hide the reality of "true cost of ownership", owning one is not for the faint of heart.. you better have that wallet open. They don't call them "Bleed My Wallet" for nothing. BMW is nothing but a trap to generate as much profit as possible, not only for the Quandt's but for the stealerships around the country ripping people off everyday with 500% markups for components and servicing. BMW is like a crack dealer, they'll sell you cheap dope to start you off aka "free maintenance" and once they have you hooked, you're nothing but a cash cow and addict.

I'll repeat.. with the so called "free" maintenance you only get: 3 oil changes and "Inspection I" which includes a brake fluid flush, wiper blades, checking of hoses, belts etc.. So at $10 filters, $6 per quart of oil (7 quarts needed per change) that's no more than $140-150 + inspection I at $150-200 + brakes (if needed) at $300 max(dealer cost) so cost to the dealer is much less than $1000 for your "free service" to the dealer big "wow" I'd say. I don't even think about after warranty servicing as now you're on the hook for thousands in maintenance as you'll be paying out of your a$$ for "retail/dealer" prices on those same parts/service, good luck. No, I don't own a BMW... after hearing family members "horror" stories and having a friend who was a certified BMW factory mechanic - who advised me "NOT" to buy a BMW :) I know better than to waste my money.

Why is it no one talks about the interior of the 3-series? Or any BMW for that matter. If the G is extremely close in performance (and it is very close to a 335 and humiliates the 328), then the day to day livability of the interior vaults the G ahead overall...I own a 2008 G35xS and have driven almost every config of the E90 3-Series (at the plant in Spartanburg - and several times)...I could have gotten either but as WHOLE package - the G is superior (and I'm NOT factoring in price). Really looks at the details - the switch gear, the ergos, etc...BMW sucks at this...and I didn't even bring up iDrive...a lot of cheap plastics, poor switch and button feel...Mercedes in also very overrated. For overall interior materials - BMW is a step below VW. Infiniti and Lexus both provide a far superior level of materials. Audi is okay but having owned a 2006 A4 also, the interiors wear poorly and a lot of poor design is hinges (ctr console, glovebox)...I'm off track on the driving side of things but overall - BMW = overpriced and overrated...

Sounds like owner bias to me; if you had an open mind you would see that your nissan's trim is second rate, definitely below the 3 series. The g feels like every current nissan, not like what belongs in a luxury car. Give it a year, it'll look 5 years old inside.

Hmm... could it be that the BMW brand (and it's trademark, Ultimate Driving Machine) allows it to claim the performance seeking yuppy market regardless?? Great marketing baby. Neither Nissan, Infinity, Audi, Merc,or Lexus will ever stand for performance the way BMW does. Granted, the end product needs to walk the talk so to speak, but lets face it. We can all assume the next 3 series will continue to dominate, sight unseen.

Really? Is that is why Audi has the best motor sport program today easily besting BMW and MB on the world stage in this regard? Not to mention the most viable technology being delivered to the marketplace via this racing. 8 Le Mans 24 Hours wins say THEY are all about performace. Stupid BMW fannieboi post as usual.

That's because when a rival car company finally thinks that they've produced a car to dethrone the 3, BMW seems to kick it up a notch and produces something better.

People may not realize that the first 3 rolled off the assembly line in 1975, about the time Infiniti and Lexus were producing approximately zero cars. BMW has had over 30 years experience perfecting the formula, not only for the road but also for the track.

Having been forced into buying a car sooner than I would have liked (E46 3er rear ended this past week, totaled), I was test driving cars yesterday with my wife. We drove the G37 Sport sedan with manual as well as the 328i and 335i. The G37 is very nice and I would never knock somebody for buying one, but it was a bit more cramped, which is surprising since it's physically bigger. Also, the clutch/shifter were not as refined as the BMW's. It's harder to drive smooth with that clutch and there is quite a bit of vibration coming through the shifter (something I'd read about). My wife even commented on it when I hadn't said a word, so I wasn't the only one to notice. The throws are nice and short, but the 3er isn't bad in that department. In fact the BMW had shorter throws than I expected compared to the shifter originally in my E46. Of course, for those that want an automatic, none of this matters, plus Infiniti has a 7 speed auto now.

The car feels like it's not comfortable being driven anything less than fast. While I would probably like to drive it that way, my wife wouldn't, and traffic/police won't let that always happen anyway. The BMW can be driven normally/slowly with ease, but it's ready to roll when you want to flog it. My wife also commented that the ride felt stiffer on the G37 versus the 335, which I found funny considering the grief about the run flats on the BMW being harsh. The Infiniti doesn't have that excuse. I've lost objectivity in the harsh ride department as my BMW was stiffly set up for racing.

The VW GTI usually wins the hot hatch tests even if its not the fastest. The Landcruiser usually wins it's group test's. The F-series wins truck of the year and most comparo tests.

All these vehicles have been built for a very long time by their respective manufacturer. If they are clever, the use the knowledge on every previous gen to improve on the next.

Its basic evolution, and its hard to disect a vehicle and try to replicate the same depth and level of engineering by attempting a cut and paste.

I think the A4 comes close to the 3-series is terms of quality and desirability, but they are very different cars aimed at different driving tastes.

I know the Infiniti's and Lexus's are great cars, but I'd never want to actually own one.

You can't copy desirability.

I can think on so many cars that are better then the 3...

Very strange to hear that this car is any close to be a "king" of it's class.

yep they say bmw fan boys are not snobs...

BJS470, please excuse Crappy, he only posted that because he's racist and irrational.

"That’s the worst thing about being middle class. The snobbery. The need to come across as being cleverer and richer than you really are." by Jeremy Clarkson. I think this quotation suits the case of the 3-series.

3 series is the perennial yuppie wagon.

tattedtwice - I really doubt you've compared a new 3-Series and 2007-09 G Series side by side - because if you did, you'd know you're Bimmer-smitten...You are probably thinking Gen I (2003-06) G Series...That had a straight up Nissan interior...I have no owner bias - my previous car was a 2006 Audi I bought with 12K on it from a BMW dealer...I could have bought a BMW, but why? A 3-Series handles better than a A4 but in daily driving it is irrelevant and the Audi is light years ahead of BMW in ergo and materials. If you want a REALLY dramatic illustration of the difference in quality between Infiniti and BMW interiors - compare a M Series to a 5 Series...

P.S. I agree - This is a retarded question...Agent 001 MUST work for Car & Driver on the side...Like a reader letter in the last C & D: "You guys at C & D showed great restraint in not naming a BMW the winner of your all Corvette comparison test"

The germans do not know how to desing efficient electronic interfaces. In order to get my BMW's NAV system to display the vehicles current position on the map requires a button push, a few turns to select "Vehicle Information", another push, a few more turns to select "vehicle position" which is the last choice btw, and then press the button. And finnaly, you're able to see your current vehicle position. To do the same thing with my current car's nav requires one push of the "NAVI" button. That all you have to do. To do the simplest of things (like adjusting bass and treble) in the BMW requires for you to go through a sea of menus just to accomplish this. It sucks

001:

Maybe you should restate the question but drop the "heritage" aspect that's weighed with each brand.

IF both the G37 and 3-series were introduced 1-2 years ago, which vehicle would be better? Which car would you feel more confident about in any driving or interior convenience situation?

The Infiniti just might be the solid leader in the comparo.

The 3 series is just a marvel and a Icon and something all manufacturers are trying to beat

Come on guys think about this for a moment and admit the BMW is and has always pretty much been the champ in the performance arena. You know, like "The Ultimate Driving Machine". Like Agent 001 said, the new G37 is a remarkable machine for the money and is a great, really great performance sedan. As much as I like the Lexus brand I'm not oblivious to who the real champs are in whatever segment/category they win hands down. I must agree the 335i is a bad ride and I would choose it over the IS350 in terms of performance.

I dare say the Audi A4 2.0T Quattro would beat the BMW 328xi. The BMW is 2.3% less weight and 9.0% more hp, but 29% LESS torque and 7-19% worse gas mileage (highway/city EPA). Equipped with the sport suspension, the Audi would match or possibly surpass the BMW in the corners. In addition, the Audi has more interior room and a nicer interior.

Granted, Audi does not currently have an A4 model in the U.S. market that can beat the BMW 335i or 335xi. However, when Audi releases the S4 in the U.S. this fall, BMW will have a real fight on its hands. And when the RS4 makes its debut - watch out, M3 owners!

the beauty of the audi / bmw competition is that they don't change models at the same time. so each has an opportunity to use the other as a benchmark and the consumer gets better cars at each changeover..

vman1013,
You make a very good point. I didn't mention it in my original blog because of a lack of time.

StarSearch,
What cost-cutting measure are you referring to? I know that people have noticed that the new A4's door handles are different from the older version's, but I don't know if they are cheaper or more expensive.

The 3 has been the one to beat for so long it has gained the right to determine the scale used to measure itself and others that pretend to be similar. How could any car be more like a 3 then a 3?

Use a different scale, maybe one leaning more towards reliability and value, and you would get a different answer.

Actually the when the Infiniti G35 first came out it beat the BMW 3-Series and took it throne. And than the new/current 3-Series took it back when it first cam out, and than the the Infiniti beat the current 3-Series on a comparison test as well.

I'm at work right now, but I google the results and posted later with the link to back up my claim.

Um, the G35 and G37 won some reviews based on value for money. In terms of the better driving experience the BMW was still the clear winner. That was made very clear in those reviews.

corretion, Infiniti G37

Beating is a relative term. As some may believe the G37 beats the 3 series and some may belive that it has not. It is all a matter of opinion and which one someone thinks is better. I don't plan on buying either one in the near future. However, I did test drive both because this battle seems to always come up and I have a leased 3 series that my company provides me with for trips. In my opinion, the G37 has already beat the 3 series. In the end, the winner of this battle will always come down to which one the individual views as better.

Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody's got one. Not one you could drive one a 335 better than a G37 to warrant a 7k or so price difference. It's all about preferences and how important you wanna look. That's the truth.

Of course you'll buy the BMW, by the sounds of it, you're just the type.

The BMW 335i is a superior car, but it's more expensive than the G37 as well. The Infiniti's principal competition, therefore, is the BMW 328i, which is more involving to drive and a few steps ahead in interior materials quality, yet considerably less muscular under the hood than the broad-shouldered G. If you can live without the Bimmer's unmatched combination of sporty handling and a comfortable ride, then the Infiniti G37 should make an excellent addition to your garage.

January US Sales #'s prove what is really happening out there. In this horrible economy the 3-series is still the champ, outselling its nearest competitor (volume) by 42%. I do note that the A5/S5 is up 76% to sell 603 cars in January.

3 Series - down 27% - 5,013 cars
G37 - down 29% - 3,509 cars
C-Class - down 35% - 3,032 cars
IS - down 26% - 2,400 cars
A4 - down 29% - 2,058 cars
A5 - up 76% - 603 cars

Its obvious that price is irrelevant in this market.

how many people at this level want options like navigation? then how many people want to actually be able to use them without needing advanced engineering degrees? I sell both cars infiniti and bmw, and no matter what the infintis navigation is leaps and bounds better then the BMW you alos never have your car drop into safe mode and limit you to some rediculous low speed until you get your car back into the shop to get reprogrammed. I'd say these 2 things inch the G's closer to 100%. Sure the bimmer is a little better drive, if you are a pro, but the G is easier to drive and you have added functionality and reliability. if BMW woudl have a japanese company do there electronics and nav they'd be a hands down winner but they dont :)

How about I buy the 335 without navigation or iDrive. Then I buy an Alpine flip up navigation system. I get the better driving experience and my nav is leaps and bounds better than the G. For less $$$

Chris357, yeah, we're all taking you very seriously here from your brilliant demonstration of your command of the English language and your childish comments. You might want to take that "I seel both BMW and Infiniti cars..." fairly tale somewhere else. Thanks.

thats exactly what I did when I traded my acura cl with nav a few years ago for my 325i and some how my 184 HP 325 was as fast as my 260 hp cl type s

I love both cars and I'm lucky to sell (or seel) both of them. It is funny, how different people decide which they think is the better value.

The market proves out which car is best and that car usually commands a price premium. The 3-series cost more because they are better. Its that simple. The G37 is cheaper because Infinity knows that they can't demand more than a 3-series if its not a better car, so its priced accordingly. That's not to say that the G37 isn't a good "value" but its just not as good as a 3. Just like a Corvette and a Ferrari. The Corvette is a fine car, but its not a Ferrari and the pricing reflects it.

An equally good question is: Why can't anyone beat the Prius? 45mpg wrapped in an ugly tin can can't be THAT hard, can it?

The Infiniity is a great buy for the price. Its amazing how many configurations and options and styles the 3 has. The G37 is a good car but infiniti still lacks the prestige the 3 has. The 3 is like bread and butter, every kid, every entry level exec, every woman wants one. Its a "BMW".

When you look at the price of a G37 and a 328, I mean its a no brainer to me, the G37 trumps it. That 2-5% "feeling" doesn't compesate for losing 100hp, a bigger interior and more standard features.

3 Series sets the overall bench mark. Other makers can do better in certain categories but not overall. I personally think the C Series looks better and the G37 gets better track times. BUT looking at all the aspects of the cars and 3 Series is the true champ.

Agent,

I really appreciated if you band buttmonkey or Buttdonkey whatever the hell he call himself, after reading his post it sickening to think you haven't yet deleted his post.

Buttdonkey,

please keep the website clean and watch what you write on the forum.

Crappy, the reason you like BMW is because is it non-Asian...and you are racist.

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/2009/02/2008-cadillac-cts-shortcuts-that-try-my-patience.html

Crappy, you're an interesting case study. I'd like to know more about your condition.

Didn't the Acura TL SH-AWD beat out the 335 a few weeks ago? Now you don't hear squat about the Acura. LOL!!!!

FWIW the BMW is nice but it isn't the best at everything. I traded in a BMW 330i for an EVO X MR and the BMW isn't anywhere near as precise as the EVO X. Even compared to the 335i the EVO offers a much better drive and is a much better performer (except in a straight line). I should know. I've had 335 loaners for weeks. There are a few cars out there that are offer sharper handling than a 3-series. It’s just that the 3 offers more luxury and is a better all around package than the competition.

So by using huu's logic, it takes two Lexus' to beat one BMW.

Again, after reading all the posts above, it boils down to preference. Car enthusiast A would buy a BMW because he likes BMW and has probably never driven other marks with an open mind or has read a lot of good things about it. Same as with Car enthusiast B who bought an AUDI because he simply liked the way it looked and handled. Or car buyer C who bought a Lexus because he wanted peace of mind when it comes to "check engine" lighting up or better value for features or whatever reason he may have. PREFERENCE.

How old are people on this site?

Okay, I'll throw in my two cents worth. I know this is a really long blog and I didn't even read any of them yet before writing this so if I repeat anybody, oh well.

First of all, the auto manufacturers don't really look at it as a competion. Yes they want to sell more cars. Some brands already outsell the BMW 3 series by a large margin so in some respects, they have already beaten it. Performance comes at what cost? Most vehicle platforms have a budget to stay within. Yes, even the 3 series has one, a really big one mind you, but a budget none the less. The vast majority of that budget is spent on rotating hardware. Engine, transmission, suspention, brakes, etc. So much is spent on those items to ensure the ultimate driving machine remains so, that other things are short changed. Do we really need to talk about the weaknesses or does everyone alreay know them? Safety? Realiability? Fit and finish? Ease of use? Style? Practicality? There are other brands out there that far outperform BMW in these areas. So is it lack of engineering competence or simply a business and identity decision? I prefer to think the latter is more acurate.

Alright, I'm not sure how many of you have actually driven the 3-series and its competitors. I just got done shopping for cars in that segment and ended up with the Lexus IS250 6mt.

To be honest with you, the 3-series felt really cheap to me. Not as cheap as the a4 or c-class, but pretty damn cheap. This is coming from a guy that has always wanted a 3-series coupe ever since I've started driving. The car felt nice to drive, the gear box was slick, I could feel the engagement of the clutch nicely, but it still felt like I was driving an econo-car. That's not a feeling I want when I'm shelling out that much money. Not to mention the fact that I don't want to deal with the reliability issues (not saying that there are many, but definitely more than lexus) since I drive my cars into the ground.

The g37 was a nice car, and I even liked it better than the 3-series, I just didn't like the interior (great improvement over the g35 though). Then came the Lexus IS250. I've grown up with Toyotas, and I know how reliable they are. My mom drove 70,000 miles without changing the oil in her 90 corolla, and it still ran 90,000 more miles before she traded it in for a camry. This car felt the most luxurious, and I know a lot of you will disagree, but the steering felt the same as the 3-series. I wanted a manual transmission so I had to stick with the 2.5 liter engine, which is a bummer, but I'm using this as a daily car, not a track car. It's still enough power for me to pass people on the highway easily, and it's nimble enough to have fun while driving. Also, by far, it had the best looks. I can't say I'm a big fan with the new 3-series design. I loved the e46 style though.

So, like Woood said, it comes down to preference. However, I would think that someone who wants their car to last a long time, problem-free, have fun with class and style, would go for the Lexus.

Regarding the article though, REALLY?! YOU THINK A 328 BEATS A G37? Drive them! IMO, 3-series are way over-rated. They feel like cheap econo-cars.

My wife TL is a better all around car than my 328,the TL feels more sporty.i'm really surprised that the TL even though it's a fwd vehicle
has better handling than the 328.Reliability,i took my car back to the dealer twice for transmission problem,my engine was on 2 weeks ago,they replaced the oxigen sensor but yesterday the light is on again,i don't see myself driven a hyundai genesis,i don't like lexus,infinity.we already have the TL,i don't like the RL from Acura,i see it as a big 4wd honda accord.Once they fix the eng light,i'll it for the MDX

Reading all these comments is interesting to see the passion and misunderstanding on both sides. I think the marketplace has decided that the 3 series is the preferred car because it outsells the G37 and has a higher price to boot. The G37 is probably a better deal for most of the people who choose them because they cost less, have fewer repairs, more bells and whistles included even more standard HP. However, more people pay more for the 3, and more people that can have any car have the 3 and they continue to came back to these cars because they like them so much. Why is it that the Infiniti buyers get so angry over this? I think most who know little about driving and cars would rather say they have a BMW but if they had one would complain about stiff seats, suspensions, and car payments and really belong in their Accords and Camrys. Some of us just like really great driving dynamics and pay the much higher total costs to get them. Get over it everyone, I just wish I could be happy listening to the G's Camaro-like exhaust rumble and light steering. Some time ago I would have liked the G37 now I prefer the sublime feel of the 3 series.
As for 001's question why can't the other manufacturers beat the 3 I don't think they wand to duplicate the 3 they want to "improve on it" by their own definition, i.e. our is cheaper, faster, higher resale, better looking, has a bigger trunk, better nav system whatever they define. The market for sublime, polished, high status, just better in a subjective, "I wish I had one" sense is dominated by the German marques and the 3 leads the way in sport sedans and has since its predecessor 1600 model in the '60s. For those you you old enough to remember then it was the Datsun 510, the G's predecessor which was just as good blah blah blah. It was a great car but couldn't capture the imagination of a generation as the new to our shores BMW could. G fans I get it I really do, I'm a Red Sox fan boy and I know this can go on for a long time before you conquer the dragon. G37 buyers your time for universal acknowledgment will come.