Who Needs The LF-A? Internal Memo Shows Audi Stepping In To Bridge The Gap With V10 R8 Due In 2010

Awesome car, but I'd still wait for the LF-A for now 'cause I'm a Lexus fan :P

If I were a little less conservative, I'd place my order for this V10 R8 right away!

Personally I think Lexus's 9000rpm V10 sound better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL0MizcLEI0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkLl-GQM4qc

Don't think i'm hating but comparing the R8 with the LF-A is little to much. The LF-A, if ever produced will be more high class. Audi could have done that with the R8 by not offering the V8 version and making it look more apart from all other audi's!

"High-Class"??? How is Lexus more high-class than Audi when Audi easily has higher priced cars in every segment? And the LF-A is no way higher class than an R8 V10 or V8. Stupid comment once again. Only in America.

Lexus is higher class than Audi. Audi is like Infiniti. Nice, but it's a rebadged Nissan/VW. Go drive a Audi A3 and then explain to me how in the hell is it any different than a VW Golf GTi except the price increase?

Sorry Dinamor.. except the A3, Audi does not share anything else with VW as far as platform. Even the Q7 is a modified platform than the T-Reg.
Even still, the A3 is just not a rebadged Gti. They share nothing except the engine and tranny.
Can't get Quattro or Magnetic ride on the GTI.
It's funny that you should say that Lexus is more high class than Audi when Lexus shares much more stuff with Toyota than Audi does with VW...
VW bought Audi...Toyota created Lexus.. BIG DIFFERENCE!

STJ88 - yeah the R8 looks like an A6, A4, S5/4, Q7, whatever other acronym audi uses (insert sarcasm).

don't even compare the Lexus ES to the Audi A3. one is a cheap econo car with a high price the other is a real luxury car.

I've owned an A6 and a Lexus LS. The A6 sucked. If I had my eyes tied shut and I was driven in a VW Passat and a A6 I would not be able to tell you which one was which. The Lexus is on a compeletly different level. Anyone who has experienced both will agree.

WOW, you are an idiot!

"don't even compare the Lexus ES to the Audi A3. one is a cheap econo car with a high price the other is a real luxury car."

I didn't think there were people this stupid around here any more. I happen to have an Audi A3 to complement my S4. Cheap econo car is, more or less, the opposite of what it is. It may not have massaging seats or self-park but the enjoyment one can get from driving it more than makes up for that. Unlike Lexus, which basically produces Toyotas that have extraneous luxury features added on, the A3 has its goodness baked in right from the production of the steering rack. It feels premium, just the way it sounds when you close the door. Go drive one and see if you feel the same way. There is a reason why it gets nothing but rave reviews.

I still believe the LF-A is fiction.

Good points Sailor, but the A3 is build in Inglostadt. No VW is allowed on the premises. The Golf or GTI is build in Wolfsburg. Audi and VW do not share any factories. The Q7 though build in the same factory as the Cayenne and Tourag is actually build on its own dedicated assembly lines as dicated by Audi and therefore never meets a Tourag or Cayenne. The Q7 is unique to the two. Isn't Lexus build at the same place as a Camry? So what is so unique about Lexus as brand? Zero!

Nobody needed or asked for the LF-A to begin with.

don't even compare the Lexus ES to the Audi A3. one is a cheap econo car with a high price the other is a real luxury car.

ES a luxury car? You really have low standards dude. The ES is a Camry. Save yourself the money of false pretense and elder abuse, and get the Camry. Obviously the term Auto Enthusiast is not part of your psyche. The A3 is blast to drive. The ES is joke on four wheels.

viso--

wipe the mud out of your eyes. all legitimate critics consider the ES an entry level luxury car. not only does it outsell most others in the class, but combined with IS (a parallel offering by lexus in the same price/class range), it DOMINATES the entry-level lux class.

furthermore, while i'm not sure if this is still true with the current generation, a prior version of the ES was designed and brought to market FIRST, and the camry version, appropriately de-contented, came second. so in effect, the CAMRY was a re-badged LEXUS.

and the public's response, keeping it america's best selling sedan, showed the wisdom of this strategy.

and even BEFORE this, used camrys held up better over the long term than ANY audi, to say nothing of vws. and so did corollas. so DinamoR is absolutely right about WHICH is the true econobox, and which the luxury sedan.

Yeah that is why Lexus does soooooo well outside the U.S
You just got brainwashed by Lexus marketing......

stop comparing a real car (r8) with vaporware (lf-a)

Exactly. If the planets align and the LF-A actually goes on sale, then you can compare it to some other car.

man it has the same engine as the RS4. Lexus easily could just drop the IS-F engine into the LFA and call it a halo car. though all you fanboys would be making fun of them for it.

Lexus can definitely drop the IS-F engine into the LF-A, but is hasn't.

And this article is talking about the R8 V10 which has a different engine.

"man it has the same engine as the RS4. Lexus easily could just drop the IS-F engine into the LFA and call it a halo car. though all you fanboys would be making fun of them for it."

Engines are all that matter... really? The thing that sets it apart is its incredible handling. You have zero credibility so please, just do us all a favor and get off the site.

The LF-A is not fiction, it exists at least the shell does, and one day we all hope to learn what's underneath. But the LF-A is typical Lexus..sublime marketing, but little substance. If I were Audi, BMW or Benz, I'll poach their whole marketing dept. down to the cleaners because they're excellent at generating buzz..
The LF-A has been under development for over 4 years, and in that time 2 of the 3 Japanese manufacturers that actually understand how to build real sports cars have popped out two. The kick-ass GTR, and the Honda NSX that's coming out this year, and will kick ass.. Usually, when your car is spotted on the ring, its nearing its launch.. The LF-A has been hanging around the ring since 2006 (see old link below). 3 years later we're still wondering why isn't it on the road? Well... Lexus engineers were first scared by the GTR and then got worried about the NSX..They know it will be difficult to measure up to either so its back to the drawing board. This car has probably spent more time on the ring than the ring queen Sabine Schmitz has driven there..so you go figure..it better be the benchmark (cough) when it gets out!

Here's the latest timeline..
2006 Detroit Autoshow (debut)
2006 Nurburgring - mules spotted during testing http://www.worldcarfans.com/6061114.001/spy-photos-lexus-lf-a-and-small-suv
2007 detroit autoshow (debut again)
2007 Unverified claims of running the ring in 7min 24secs surface
2008 Detroit autoshow (roadster debut)
2008 racing development testing on the ring during the ADAC Rundstrecken Trophy Endurance (to collect data according to Lexus)
2008 Mt Fuji demo
2009 still waiting..
2010 LF-A mysteriously morphs into the new 2010 Lexus SC coupe end of story!

Now let the deboosting begin but note that its difficult to escape reality!! lol

This Audi R8 V10 is the car to own.

Lexus should stick to rebadging Camries.

Oh look, it's the "I love Bush and Cheney" guy.

remind me why would I listen to anything a dumbass like you has to say?

then again maybe I would if every single post of yours didn't sound like it was written by someone who dropped out of school in 4th grade

And I see that EL34 has stuck to sounding like a you know what.

Diamond Jim you must be delusional to assume Lexus is a higher mark than Audi. Keep on smoking the Lexus bong all day long so you can remain in your stupor. For example, when was the last time a Lexus cost around $150,000 like an A8L W12 or Lexus executed a car like the A8L W12? Seriously, unless Lexus can take on Audi globally and on the race track yet lone execute like Audi, Lexus will be second or third tier to Audi, BMW, and MB. Secondly, Infiniti doesn't have the product range to take on Audi in the upper segments. Obviously, you know little regarding the various products. As for the A3, it is build as a premium luxury small car, something all three German luxury carmakers do well. Because Lexus cannot do it doesn't make the A3 or 1-Series any less premium. A fully loaded A3 3.2 Quattro S-Line easily can set you back $40,000. Isn't the IS250 less than that? The A3 3.2Q is easily more premium than some IS250. You can get magnetic ride and even self-parking on the A3 to boot. Again, another lame attempt by some dumbass fanboy like you to spew crap without the facts.

and how many people buy the A8L W12? Audi has been a failure in the large luxo class for ever. The Original Audi V8 was not good enough to even be photographed together with the original Lexus LS400. Lexus LS400 came out in 1989 and kicked the MB SEL420 and BMW 735 square in the balls on day one. Audi wasn't even in the picture, and has never really been, except their cars with the small diesel engines in europe. Even Infiniti is outselling Audi in USA....Infiniti! haha

DinamoR - you really don't know much about cars huh? infiniti & lexus outsell the major luxury cars (here in the US) because.............. because they are cheaper cars. if i couldn't afford my BMW and my Audi i would buy an infiniti without a doubt but lexus............... nah, i'll pass. lexus hasn't made a well handeling, descent looking car in years (if ever).

Thanks Agent 009 for starting the flame wars...Ok as for the rest of you lame brains, I've said it time and time again the Lexus LF-A is a halo car and will be built. It will smoke the Corvette, Porche 911 turbo,Nissan GT-R,Audi R8 and every thing else under 180K. It will be way over a quarter million bucks, in fact over $300,000 because idots like ya'll keep pissing them off with your lame comments(just kidding,smile). The Lexus LF-A will be the begining wave of terror in which Toyota is returning to it's Supra Twin Turbo,MR-2 Turbo and Celica GT-4 Turbo glory days but, with keen tacticle strategies to oust the likes of BMW,Audi,Caddy (intro of GS-F) and other mid-entries. The IS-F will trump the BMW M3 by the time the LF-A is introduced thereby positioning them selves to pick apart the competition securing home field advantage. Take NASCAR for instance, top drivers have already left Ford, Chevy and Dodge owners to drive for top paying Toyota race car owners and if you don't believe me research it for yourselves lame brains.

"Take NASCAR for instance, top drivers have already left Ford, Chevy and Dodge owners to drive for top paying Toyota race car owners and if you don't believe me research it for yourselves lame brains".

Because soon Toyota will be the only car on the race track, dumbass, and also because they are not good enough to drive for Formula 1,DTM or Le Mans

Not many can buy the W12 because they cannot afford it twit! How many buy the S600 or the 760iL? Anyone can buy the LS its cheap. By the same argument how many people by Lexus in Europe or the rest of the world compared to Audi? Obviously not many because they are not as dumb as you.

helluva lot more than the A8, that's for sure! Lexus sold something like 950 LS's last month, Audi sold around 80 A8/S8's. I'm not even talking the $150,000 A8L W12, I mean a total of ALL the A8/S8's. And Lexus LS sells very well in the world. In 2007 Lexus LS was the SECOND best selling full size luxo sedan in the ENTIRE WORLD after the S class. Lexus sold 35,000 LS's in USA and 37,000 outside of USA, for a total of 72,000. Second only to S class....Cry me a river, your volkswagen sucks.

I find this whole Lexus Audi comparo quite funny. I have driven most of the Lexus lineup and while I will say they are decent cars, they are just that, a car. Nothing emotional about it what so ever. I picked up an ES as a rental while in LA and I would have turned around and returned it had I not been running late. WAY too soft riding, didn't feel premium and it truly is a tarted up Camry.

Get into an A3 and it will not feel like you are driving a GTI. Even simply opening and closing the door is drastically different from the GTI and the GTI is great to begin with.

I took a co-worker who is not a car fan to the NAIAS this year. She sat in the LS, looked around and got out. Didn't feel the need to look at it more closly. Got her into the A8 and she was gushing and said she found it hard to believe people view Lexus they way they do.

Again, they build decent cars but I don't think they have it in them to build emotional vehicles. The inside of the LS looks dated, low rent and not exciting when compared to the 7, S and A8.

Lexus LS interior is made to look simplistic. If you want your car interior to look like a jumbo jet cockpit with all those buttons then go ahead and buy the audi. and nice jab at the ES, though being soft, quiet and comfortable is EXACTLY what it is supposed to be and EXACTLY why it outsells every Audi on the market. Not everyone wants a family race car. Lexus sport cars will be the IS and the next gen GS....the 1990's Japan spec Lexus GS with the Supra engine I drove had more emotion than any audi I've ever driven.

come on, you have to be blind not to see the difference. If by simplistic you mean cheap to make? sure, I agree. The wood trim looks fake, the switch gear isn't much better than what you find in a Corolla. I locked said ES and seconds later so did a Yaris a few cars away. Suprise suprise - same alarm horn. Now before people start to "flame" on that comment, let me just say that Toyota as a whole will reuse just about anything across the board - from Yaris to the LS.

Lexus is great at taking a pedestrian car and making it a "luxury" vehicle and people lap them up, but only in North America. Go to the UK or most of Europe and it's viewed quite differently.

I'm just throwing random things out there, but answer me this, why can't Toyota/Lexus even get on board with Laser Welding? All Premium brands use it for it's obvious benifits.

Door hinges - take a peak at any German vehicle vs an import. Solid construction for ze Germans..not so much for the others. It's all the little details that add up to a much better built car.

There is a reason why even companies like Lexus to this day look to Audi interiors as a benchmark. And when one is looking at others they are admitting they need to catch up.

I think it's great you are pationate about the Lexus brand. If we all drove the same cars, well, that would be just boring.

the wood trim in the Lexus LS is the top of the line piano wood used in the S class.....Doors? give me a break. Lexus engineers spent months working on the Lexus LS doors just so they would have the right sound when they shut- like a heavy wooden door. Lexus LS is also the only luxo sedan not made by rolls royce or bentley that is hand sanded twice before it is painted....The attention to detail on the Lexus LS is painfully incredible....And the only reason Lexus does not sell well in europe is because they don't offer small diesel engines. The LS460 in europe costs anywhere between $120,000- $200,000. The LS600h in Norway costs $350,000. The king of norway bought two....Audi makes a 210 horsepower diesel A8 in europe that costs $70,000. $50,000 less than the LS 460. So which is the premium brand and which is not?

and Audi interiors top of the line? rofl the interior of my Audi A6 in europe had the same cloth interior as the Vw Passat, the same plastic, the same buttons on the dash and doors, the same dash board, the same boring red light everywhere on the dash as the VW Passat, I think it even had the same blaupunkt stereo....The same weak diesel engine, the same jumpy transmission....Then I went back to USA and got into my Lexus LS and remembered what it is like to drive a real luxury car again

DinamoR, you are totally correct.

"Lexus LS interior is made to look simplistic."

What??? Simplistic? First of all, that isn't a compliment--I think you just meant "simple." Second, it doesn't apply here. The LS is stacked with too many buttons and surfaces. The A8 is simple. It has very little clatter on the center stack and the effect is a beautifully contemporary design that will age well. The fact that it is simply built better than the LS is icing on the cake. Every material in that car feels first-rate.

You can whine all you want about Euro A6s with cloth seats, but all exec sedans are available with cloth there. It doesn't affect the quality of the interior. That's just the surface of the seats. If you actually examine the integrity of the dashboard and the quality of the plastics, it far exceeds even the most expensive Lexus's interior.

Lexus LS interior = simplistic? That's funny. It's the most unorganized interior in its class. It lacks simplicity (the very word you claim it has), it lacks elegance, it lacks class, it even lacks style and the ergonomics are a bad joke too. Plus, the materials don't feel special when compared to the three Germans.

In the last month I have sat in almost every class of vehicle made by the top 4 premium brands, and I can honestly say that the Lexus vehicles are more omfortable.
Interior asthetics are all good, but from a true comfort
perspective, the feel of the Lexus cars just seem better.

another, even better, version of an already wonderful car.

and it's actually in production!

CR which considers but does not OVER rate handling, gave the following scores after their extensive road tests, arguably the most comprehensive of any magazine: Lexus ES350 91, Acura TL 90, Lexus IS250 84, bmw 325i 78, acura TSX 77, audi A4 77. (the LS got a 99, the highest road test score.)

the "lows" were 'lackluster handling' for the ES (obviously outweighed by the "highs" to garner the highest numeric score), and 'engine noise and vibration' for the A4.

Audi does not have the quality of Lexus. the quiet, smooth, high-class feeling is missing in Audi. Audi feels just like any other econo car but gussied up with expensive options. I've owned both Audi and Lexus and that is my honest opinion after owning them. Lexus is on a different level. And sales in USA (where you don't need small diesels to be sucessful) reflect this

audi does not even have the quality of TOYOTAS. after a mere 3 or 4 years, they have more problems than 8 or 10 year old toyotas. but all that fancy interior 'trimnmings' do fool a lot of suckers into overspending for an econobox. esp. one that starts falling apart so much faster than even the cheapest toyota.

DinamoR owned everyone here. LOL

but the only thing that matters the most is the R8 V10 out and kicking everybodys a$$, while the LF-A have been testing on the nurburgring for the past 9000 years, and they not done yet.

Give it up Dynamo Jim. Spin it all you want and our European pricing is a complete farce. Learn to do conversions properly. Do you want to see Lexus sales numbers for Europe vs. the Germans? Your guished up Toyota LS Camry is perfect for Sun City, but don't think it holds any value in Europe in terms of desire. Audi sold more Q7s alone in Europe than Lexus sold total. Even in the US Audi does better than Lexus does in Europe by double the amount. And stop with the interiors. You really are dumb and blind if yout thing a pathetic LS interior is superior to and A8 interior. Your comments crack me up. What a joke to read your posts. If Lexus is so hot why doesn't it field an LMP1 to challenge Audi. At least Acura has the guts to try to take on Audi in the LMP1 class this year. Don't break your walker getting into your ES Yaris.

you're still spewing that euro garbage? I'm from europe originally. don't B.S. me about europe. Lexus was designed for America and it is the best selling brand in America. Audi would not sell shit in USA either if they sold the same cars in USA they offer for the euro market, trust me retard. And like I said, Lexus LS was the 2nd best selling world wide after the S class in 2007. and lexus only makes a V8 version. Audi makes a cheap 210 horspower diesel A8 in europe that costs $50,000 less than the LS easily.....Go look at picture of say a 1998 Audi A3 and explain to me how is it any more upscale than a Skoda Octavia or a Chevrolet Cavalier?...No I'm not kidding.

Toyota will probably field a LMP1 in 2010 or 2011, and they just might kick their asses.........ps: you sound 13 years old. put down you xbox and go to sleep.

And yet that 210hp Diesel had better MPG than the outrageously priced LS600HL....
End of story....
I'm from Europe too and Lexus fail miserably in Europe.
Did you know that the LS has the WORSE resale in Europe?
And that goes pretty much for the whole Lexus brand...

i love how he compared a 10 year old Audi to newer cars..... idiot...
Even if you do, I guarantee that the interior of the Audi will be in a whole better shape than the Cavalier..

DinamoR

So tell me this, if the LS was so great, why does it keep losing comparison tests? Why does every single magazine say the LS600h under achieves? Why does the ES and camry even LOOK similar? And I can tell from your comment about the A3 that you've never even came close to sitting in one. Take a look at your " Simplistic " Lexus LS interior. I could swear I've seen it somewhere else. Where? The camry and now the corolla also shares the same basic look!!!

GOSH...another fan war(!) surprise!

it's getting old. nobody is going to change each other's minds, so what's the point?

Toyota will not field an LMP1 in the near future especially in this economic climate. By then Audi will be on its 11th or 12th Le Mans win with new technology. Stop reading from some Lexus marketing material to try to make us believe. Not only does lexus lack any serious motor sport program to build any level of credibility as a premium build is still has nothing to answer the AMG, RS, or M in-house tuners. I think everyone has pretty forgotten about the IS-F already. You can get dirt cheap these days.

WOW! it seems like overnite, like ROACHES all the audi fans came out in the DARK to deboost all the pro-lexus folks, and boost up pro-audi comments.

oh well, to each his own opinion. but the MARKET does not lie in its preferences, and people there speak with their WALLETS, not out of their @sses.

(let's see how far i'll get deboosted for this.)

Yes, the market speaks well that is why Audi was the only premium brand to show positive growth in 2008 with over a million units. So, yes consumers are speaking with their wallets an not out of their a$$ like Lexus fanbois.

audi as a 'premium brand' that sells a lot of Four bangers, sells a lot of cars in CHINA, maybe the ONLY market that hasn't seen a drop in auto sales. the chinese seem to like audis for two reasons; one, many in the commie party apparatus had audis, so newly prosperous ordinary guys associate it with status and power, even the econobox models. buick is also big in china, for much the same reason. two: the chinese are not yet as a group, sophisticated car buyers. they have yet to learn that VWs and audis start to have problems 2 or 3 times faster than toyota products.

well i need one cause i have see and drive all these german supper cars now i looking to taste some japanees starting with the GT-R then LF-A

I've been away from these blogs...
Some one tell me is Toyota going to make LF-A now? I thought they decided not to make them.

Either way I bet its a nice car but I would go with Audi though.

Why is it that the ONLY place in the world where Lexus is successful is America?