Think The New 7 Looks A Lot Like The Old One? These Photos Will Really Open Your Eyes.

I like the old 7 series. I like the new one as well. But neither are a match for the S Class.

They both look nice. I don't see much of a evolution in design. The new tailpipes and chrome on the trunk remind me of the LS.

the new one looks significantly more aggressive in person....especially the front end. the character lines on the side panels are also much stronger. you know it's a 7 immediately, just improved in my opinion.

I've seen a pile of dog shit that looks better than the old 7. and yeah the new one looks like the LS

It doesn't look like a LS, maybe only rear looks a bit like LS, I don't know where you see similarities, apart from rear rest of the car is completely different from LS in my opinion.

the only unfortunate resemblance to the LS is from the rear. otherwise, it looks precisely NOTHING like the LS. how many have YOU seen on the road?

001, We get it already! You love BMWs - Now can you stop starting all of these useless new 7 series threads?

Come on car enthusiasts, I can see a soccer mom getting them mixed up but not people interested in and knowledgeable about cars

Do you know what would be refreshing?

If Lexus would stop ripping off ideas and design their own cars without looking at German cars, but of course we all know it would look like some goofy $h!t and you know it!

This new BMW 7-Series will make the LS look like junior....lol

Funny, the LS does not look German at all. However the new 7 does look somewhat Asian.

TurboSpyder, from where you know it was non-German? You think master race don't do mistakes?

TurboSpyder:
"And abcd, I don't believe the Germans are the master race"

Reading your comments like God give Germans more engineering talent I don't think you're sincere here. Yes, there are many non-German designers in German companies but you wrote this like would know that it definitely wasn't German.

"but I do know that when you go east of Germany things suck really bad"

I recently watched TV program about Russian space program and it wasn't sucking. Economic maybe sucks becouse of Communism(like in GDR), but engineering in USSR was at high level.

TurboSpyder:
I still don't know from where you know that 7 series designer definitely is non-German.

"Germany is world-renowned for its engineering excellence and has been for a very long time[...]Hundreds of years ago the Russian Czars had western Europeans come to Russia to build the Kremlin and Churches for them and they employed western Europeans as tutors etc."

I don't know whether Russians employed western Europeans to build for them Kremlin but Germans did the same, they transferred all the cutting edge, game changing British technologies, innovations from Agricultural revolution to Industrial revolution, that made possible transition from agricultural economy to industrial economy, Germans didn't any game changing innovations before that transfer, without this transfer Germany(and other countries) would be still a agriculural country. So until then Germans did everything like any other pre-industrialized country on the world(and Russia)-acquired British technology. After transfer of British technologies, Germans(and other countries e.g.Russia) started upgrade them and later made own technologies, innovations, discoveries. Most technologies of second industrial revolution were done by Americans, British and Germans(alphabetical order), a while later also Japan world power.

"And the Germans weren't running the show in the GDR so it's foolish for you to keep trying to pretend that they were."

So, you agreed that system in East Germany and Russia and other East block countries has been responsible for bad economy and lack of companies that could be now competitive in international market.

"Auto Union had leading edge automotive technology in the 1930's and they were based in Saxony which is in Eastern Germany."

Yes but this was particularly possible becouse of German government(NSDAP) funding of this company after 1933, British and other European auto companies weren't funded by their governments, before 1933 Auto Union wasn't as advanced compared to other companies. Russians had record setting planes(e.g.Tupolev) at that time.

"The Russians were always very good at espionage and stealing military technology - I understand they even got a hold of the full blueprints for the Concorde."

At espionage they were also good, I don't know whether they had a blueprins of Concorde, I think it isn't proved. Their space program and military technology was often pioneering.

Correction:
"a while later also Japan world power." --> become world power.

TurboSpyder, do you think that mathematics and science was only invented in Europe or Germany? No, also in other parts of world, the most important scientific discoveries came in Europe together with industrial revolution(e.g. thermodynamics laws were discoveried a lot later than a steam engine), before industrial revolution there was mathematics that wasn't applicated for industrial applications(just like for example in China), it was applicated for buildings, ships(also like in China - buildings, Zheng He ships) not to mention that science was accesible only for few peoples, most of the population were farmers.
This were british inventions that changed that pattern.

"Again, I'd like to ask you if you are aware of one eastern European company that engineers a product that is competitive in the international marketplace against Western and Japanese products? "

In automotive industry there isn't any competitive company in Eastern Europe, just like in East Germany(audi is now in Ingolstadt).

"No. The eastern Europeans have never been competitive with the western Europeans under any form of government going back centuries."

Centuries? Wow:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish-Lithuanian_Commonwealth

"Germany was bombed to rubble in WWII and by the early 1960's they had rebuilt and had the largest economy in Europe."

-->Marshall Plan. And laboriousness also ofcourse. And there wasn't economic miracle in east Germany.

TurboSpyder, there is a massive amount of sources about industrial revolution on internet, look for example here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3697771/Science-Technology-During-Industrial-Revolution

"In 1750 most peoples in Europe lived on small farms and produced most of their needs by hand..."
And here that most scientific discoveries occured well after Industrial revolution began:
"The last half of nineteenth century was a period with experienced rapid progress in science and technology..."

Or here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=2Snn6RuH9x8C
Look at "Why Britain first?"

This link is working:
http://books.google.com/books?id=NiVWqSTea8oC

"A History of the European Economy, 1000-2000

Look at:
"Why Britain first?"

Quote from the book "A History of the European Economy, 1000-2000", page 113:
"Even though inventors came from the whole spectrum of British society, and some (like the Reverend Edmund Cartwright) belonged to the ruling elite, a large majority were from a middle-class background. They were brilliant tinkerers with a willingness to experiment. Their approach was both empirical-intuitive and scientific, as some scientific culture had percolated downward in society (through books, magazines, lectures, and learned societies), *** even though relations between "science" and industry only became intense in the late nineteenth century *** (except in the case of the chemical industry)."

TurboSpyder, maybe British engineers used some part of German mathematics, but was this mathematic that advanced then, was it more advanced than mathematics in e.g. China or Japan(I choose china becouse I read and heard that their mathematics, astronomy, alchemy was quite advanced at some time). The most important was invention of calculus, I know that Leibniz invented the calculus but as did Newton, and there was controversary whether Leibniz was inspired by Newton's work:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_v._Leibniz_calculus_controversy

TurboSpyder:
"(unless you consider the factories that VW and other companies built there). The eastern Germans in the GDR didn't get uncompetitive overnight - they were being ruled by Slavs whose own societies have been completely backwards and uncompetitive for centuries as I have already shown you."

So, what factories are being build in east Germany. You say that they were uncompetitive becouse they were being ruled by Slavs, I think they weren't ruled by Slavs, they had also their own engineers and also couldn't used them becouse of the system. You can't prove your claim and I my so lets stay on this.
Poland economic growth:
http://polandeconomy.blogspot.com/2008/01/poland-gdp-2007.html

And lowly Slavs could even develop multi-stage rocket(look at Kazimierz Siemienowicz):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish-Lithuanian_Commonwealth#Culture

TurboSpyder:
"Are you kidding?"

No. So, if East Germans were ruled by Slavs than West Germans were ruled by US. It's the same logic.

"What I am saying is that there would be no industrial revolution in Britain if there wasn't first an advancement in mathematics and as I already pointed out to you the Germans - along with other western European countries like Italy, France and Britain - produced this modern math. *Engineers* like Thomas Newcomen and James Watt..."

TurboSpyder, I'm saying about pre-industrial math, not modern. I don't know what mathematic Newcomen used but I doubt he used any sophisticated mathematic at all becouse connections between science and industry only became intense in the late nineteenth century(see my link and quote above, or read "Why Britain first?" from the book), there wasn't yet thermodynamics laws, Raoult's laws,... and without this science(the laws) mathematic is impractical in that case. He could use Newton developments, before Newton's calculus I doubt there was more sophisticated mathematic in Europe than in other countries in the World(in specific time in other countries) although I'm don't know that for sure. Still, mathematic without practical applications is useless.

"The Chinese have been buying tens of billions of dollars of Russian weapons and technology each year for many years now because the Russian stuff looks leading edge compared to what the Chinese can do on their own."

TurboSpyder, Chinese current situation has nothing to do wih our theme, and I'm surprized that China was buying Soviet military equipment becouse it was first-rate until collapse of Soviet Union, now Russia doesn't spend that much on military but still their weapons are among best: examples: one of most manoeuvrable fighters- Su-35, one of the best strategic bomber- Tupolev Tu-160 Blackjack, ...
Coming back to Chinese and their pre-industrial math and science compared to pre-industrial European:
Chinese using than their math and science were also capable to do oceanic ships(Zheng He ships) and all the buildings like pre-industrial Europeans.

"and the Europeans very quickly left the rest of the world behind in math and science."

Yes, to be more exact, in 19th century, after Industrial revolution, look at my previous link.

"You're delusional. Did the Americans build a wall around West Germany to keep the population from fleeing?"

No, but TurboSpyder, not only East Germany was under military control of Soviets, also Poland and other countries, but specifically that was becouse of the Communism system that was imposed on these countries by Soviets that today these countries(eastern Germany and other countries of Communism block) haven't almost any companies producing world-class engineered products. And US imposed democratic system on West Germany, don't they?

"I would like to ask you for a third time - are you aware of even one eastern European company that sells an engineered product that is competitive in the international marketplace against western and Japanese products? I'm not aware of any but you're over there so I thought you might know of one."

OK, so one example:
Russian PROTON rocket engineered by Khrunichev and used for commercial launches:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_heavy_lift_launch_systems

Now your turn, one from eastern Germany.

"Korolev R-7 Rocket Leads The Field For Reliability":
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Korolev_R_7_Rocket_Leads_The_Field_For_Reliability_999.html

[Quote]
Anatoly Perminov, head of Russia's Federal Space Agency (Roskosmos), has said that in 2006 Russia accounted for 47% of all launches carried out in the world. Adding to those the launches under the international Sea Launch program, which uses the Ukrainian-Russian Zenit rocket, the figure will climb to over 50%.[...]Observers agree that today Russia holds very advantageous positions both in orbiting individual spacecraft and in deploying multi-satellite constellations as part of international and commercial programs.
[/Quote]

"Deconstructing the “Top 100”":
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/33/1

[Quote]
The effect of that dominance persists to this day: while von Braun’s rocket designs have been consigned to museums, Korolev’s R-7 “Semyorka”, which launched Sputnik over 45 years ago, continues in use to this day in only slightly modified versions as the Soyuz and Molniya rockets.
[/Quote]

That why I said *eastern* Germany. Yes I read but you were asking for company, so we should be exact.

Correction:
That --> That's

TurboSpyder, it's pretty funny how selective you are when you copy paste from wikipedia that Korolyov *early* rockets where developed from von Brown's V-2 but you don't mention that von Brown's V-2 rockets were largely based on Robert Goddard inventions:

from wikipedia:
"Before 1939, German scientists occasionally contacted Goddard directly with technical questions. Wernher von Braun used Goddard's plans from various journals and incorporated them into the building of the Aggregat (A) series of rockets. The A-4 rocket is the well known V-2.[...] A V2 crashed in Sweden and was sent to an Annapolis lab where Goddard was doing research for the Navy. Goddard recognized many components which he had invented and realized his brain child had been turned into a weapon."

And another example of selectivity from your own link:
http://www.imz-ural.com/factory/

"A more likely story is that the BMW factory supplied the construction drawings and casting moulds. As a result of the Molotov / Ribbentrop Pact, transfers of technology had taken place in support of their Soviet "friends" in different areas. Soviet engineers toured German aircraft factories and brought back complete cannons as samples. The OPEL Kadett was given to the Soviets just prior to the war"

About japanese motocycle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikuo_Motorcycles_-_Japan

"under license and name of Harley Davidson using their tooling"

"Fine, so who else had anything close to a functioning missile like the V2 in WWII? What kind of rockets did the Russians have or the Americans or the British? They had nothing."

TurboSpyder, I'm not downgrading von Brown's work but this my response to your downgrading of Russian space program and rockets. If you didn't downgrade Russians obvious achievements in rocket technology I would not downgrade German's obvious leadership in WW2 in rocket technology. And Robert Goddard was American and yes, he was doing rockets to your surprize, there are many sources in Internet so I will not take place on unnecessary citations. Now I can now ask a question in the same pattern as yours - So who else has built as succesful rocket as R-7 and many other succesful rockets to this day? What kind of rockets did the Germans have at the times of Goddard rockets? You don't must to answer becouse I know answers. Isn't this easier to give credit where it's due, to von Brown's rockets and to Russian rockets insdead to trying to deny and to downgrade EVERYTHING? And I have never said that Russian engineering is better than Western overall, but in rocket technology it is deffinitely as I showed in my answer to YOUR question about one eastern Europe company with competitive products.

"You bring out the worst in me, abcd. Sometime I feel like I'm kicking a puppy when it comes to debating with you."

Don't you like the facts baseed on respected sources(like book for example)? It's hard to debate with you on facts becouse it's always ending on Germans vs rest of the world.

They should park it next to the LS and take photos to compare the two. I have always said the the rear looks like a Lexus LS.

the rear is similar...and that's where all similarity ENDS. side, front, interior--no resemblance. and certainly nothing similiar to the LS in terms of ride, handling and power. the LS drives like a sofa on wheels. a friend of mine had the 460L as a rental right now while his BMW is in the body shop and one has no feeling when driving the bouncy thing.

AutoSpies.com has the highest readership of auto prosumers in market for luxury cars and readers are researching cars more and more on the internet before they buy.

So THEY care about getting the most information/photos because any smart person does their research before the drop 100 g's.

We photograph and cover EVERY manufacturer's luxury cars the same when we're invited to their events.

I'm a stickler for ALL the details and as a consumer myself I always find it hard to get the info I'm looking for.

It's one of the reason I started the site because no one else goes to this level of detail.

In other words...It ALL matters!

001

Senorgato beat me to it. When I saw the pictures I was thinking...they should've campared the pics from the mmc of the last gen 7 series b/c the brake lights extends into the trunk lid like the new one. But for the record i can see the difference b/t the old one and new one.

I think the new 7 looks much better.

It looks better from all angles EXCEPT the grille - which is as ugly as hell, and because that's the face of the car, it messed the whole car up. The headlights are not that special either. Otherwise, it is an amazing vehicle!

funny how its only now that im warming to the old 7 series styling

you're like a disaster. nice job being a loser and pretending to be a lame lexus fan. but you fail at life.

you=epic fail lmfao

ps. nice pic of you mom also. did she piss you off by not getting you a new playstation for christmas? rofl

Like really? LOL, like it looks like a LS like... Like Lexus is the best n' stuff... Like the Lexus is a overgrown pile o' Toyota like. Like for real...

LBQ, It doesn't matter how ugly this car looks, it is still the ultimate car machine. This will always be better than anything Lexus builds. You soccer moms really don't know anything. You will never understand because you are not fabulous like me or BMWs. BMW all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

^ TOOL

how many of the new 7s have you been in? if you'd ever even seen the car, you'd understand. i pity you.

Man does the old 7 series look ugly..Never liked it, never will..One of the ugliest luxury sedans ever built...As for the new 7, much better..Still way behind the S class though..

Outside look is good though not ragingly so, but inside appears to be brilliantly executed. And considering that is where you spend the time that counts, that is what matters. Thumbs up.

001

Is it just me or did you compare the pictures of the front of the face lifted last seven and the rear of the pre-face lifted seven?! Oh, and if you ever find an E32 7 series, please post pictures of a rear lights comparison.

The New 7 is a (much-needed) improvement over the previous generation!

I love all of this heated competition among manufacturers - gives us (the consumer) a great range from which to choose. Am also curious to see the next-generation Audi A8 and Jaguar XJ...

the car is:

- very stiff compared to an S-Class
- interior quality doesn't match that of S-Class
- take a look at the third picture... YEAH the rear door is too long

What is wrong with BMW ?? .. can't they see how mercedes got a car with the perfect size (not too big not too small), and a very comfortable interior space too.

Don't they realize how big the 7-series is ?.. and how it looks like a luxurious Korean car ?... I personally know people who have the old 7 and were waiting for the new one.. when they released it, they immediately bought an S-class

we have to admit that Mercedes S-class is one of the top ten car we have ever seen in every single aspect.

omg omg omg another 7 series article!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

um...no.

how it drives, rides, handles, steering, comfort, power, features, technology--and of course, looks. these are the things that matter to someone spending $100k on a car (which is what a well-optioned 7 costs).

i like it...have seen several on the road here in LA already. they're chaufferring celebrities around during the oscars. it has great street presence, strong character lines and the interior is very elegant (especially in the creme with black carpets).

Ascari got it right about that back door it is huge..but its much better than the old one so I must approve although the previous generation(98-99 ish)is still much more attracive.

Less ugly means you're still ugly :)

Why not also compare last gen 750 (2006-08 version) with it's mid-life refresh with these two? It's tail, etc looks a litte closer to the 2009 than the 2002-05 (I may be off a year) 745...if we want to be thorough.

I think the bigger difference of the 2009 is the interior (exterior is more of a standard evolution compared to the extreme change Bangle first brought in). The even put the "shifter" back IMO where it belongs instead of by the stearing column.

Yes it looks the same.