Move over M5, I want the Audi S6

Actually the M5 is a much better looking car and when it comes to driving experience it has the Audi beat so bad that is not even funny.
BMW > Audi. Things will never change.

And yet in many publications, the S6 being heavier and less powerful than the Beemer and the Benz, finished just one second behind the M5 on a one lap ride and 3 seconds ahead of the Benz...
'nough said....

Alextx, could you provide a link to these reviews you cite?

@HSCenterconsole - can you provide a link showing otherwise?

i agree

1dott8, I didn't make the claim that the heavier and less powerful S6 had such close lap times to the M5. Alextx make that claim and he should have to provide the proof, not me. I was just asking where he got those "stats" from.

Here are some links.
BTW, this was discussed almost 2 years ago on this very website!!

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/luxury/112_0702_luxury_sports_sedan_comparison/index.html

Here is another one:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/sedans/2007_audi_s6_vs_bmw_m5_m_b_e63_amg_comparison_test+type-reviews_by_make+page-3+mode-collection+id-257.html

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/sedans/0607_2007_supersedans/2007_audi_s6_and_2007_mercedes_benz_e63_amg.html

The magazine had a telemetry for each cars on the lap and the S6 was one second off the pace of the M5 and 3 secs AHEAD of the Benz

The best part about the S6 is the quattro. It makes it a true four seasons car. However, it is pretty lame that the S6 makes only 435hp while the M5 and E63 are pushing over 500hp. If I was in the market for one of these super sedans (maybe one day if the stock market ever goes back up), it would be the M5 6MT first, then the E63, with the Audi as my last choice.

And the S6 again reinforces my biggest gripe and pet peeve with pretty much every Audi: POOR WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION. They need to stop making nose heavy cars.
S6: 59/41 F/R
E63: 52/48
M5: 52/48

Hmm...There is a car out there released last year call the Audi RS6. A bi-turbo 5.2L V10 making 580 bhp. The RS6 rips the M5 apart at any level. And yet the S6 making 435 also has traded wins in various reviews against the M5 being both high performance and refined.

I miss the tagline for the previous gen. M5. "Wolf in a sheep's clothing" or something like that... which used to make me feel so giddy about that car.

Why...so they can place themselves at the bottom in every comparison like they did with the IS-F? Nobody cares about Lexus especially when it comes to building performance cars.

"Lexus is the benchmark in quality, reliability, fuel economy, emissions, interiors, performance and value. Suck on that."

Suck on your -6+ deboosting. LOL!!!

Anyone who says what you just said is a blind fanboy (Bordering on insanity). And I'm willing to bet the farm that you are from America?

Lexus isn't a benchmark for any of the items that you just mentioned. Benchmark in performance? Are you retarded! Do bother answering that, you already did.

Ok lets not get too crazy now....Lexus does have nice Interiors, and obviously are very reliable, but to say they are the BENCHMARK in performance is stretching it. They obviously targeted the benchmark when creating the IS/ISF and that was the 3-series/M, this was no secret they tried to hide.

Oh, I forgot to add, for Lexus' first entry into the Performance market, they did a GREAT job. The ISF is a force to be reckoned with and with no doubt, they put BMW/MB/Audi on notice.....to say the ISF surpassed the M/AMG/RS would be pushing it.

i can tell you that the M5 will be more fun to drive, i personally prefer the looks of the BMW.

conversely, i have a dinan 335 coupe, my mom has an S5. I love the S5 for its looks, feel, and overall presence. but the BMW blows it away on driving impression. this is not to say that the audi is not a wonderfully performing machine, it is the opposite in fact. BMW just does "driving" better

I'd be happy with any of the three cars so I don't care either way -- let people buy whatever they like. I'm just wondering why this was "newsworthy". Someone posting on an Audi fansite that they would rather have an Audi over a BMW warranted being posted on Autospies? Isn't that kind of what you'd expect to see on a fansite? I am pretty sure you could find the same kind of brand "loyalty" on a BMW site, Lexus site, Mercedes site, etc.

001, 009 & 00J:
Why hasn't "Teknik" been banned yet? He adds nothing to the discussion in any of his posts. Instead he just recites the same basless talking points (see above) and pesters other users. As Agents, is this really how you want the comments section to be on your site?

— FillorKill:

> 001, 009 & 00J:
> Why hasn't "Teknik" been banned yet?

Cause he has a brilliant and one of its kind, unique avatar.

If we head for this downscaling direction, let's keep this further:

Audi S6 (V10, 450HP, 5.2cc): [1]
USD 72.000
0-60: 5.7 sec
1/4 Mile: 14.0 @ 102.9 (sec @ mph)
Slalom (mph): 67.4
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.86

Lexus GS 350 (V6, 300HP, 3.5cc) [2]
USD 45.000; 46.000 for the all wheel drive version (!!!)
0-60: 5.7 sec
1/4-mile: 14.0 @ 99.5 (mph @ sec)
Slalom (mph): 65.2
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.81

So the S6 costs a WHOPPING 60% more yet in speeds that are actually usable on public roads it does not deliver anything more than the Lexus GS 350. Despite 150HP 1700cc advantage and burning much more fuel. S6 has a bit wider grip margins however this comes at the price of comfort. GS is also available in all wheel drive version.

RoadAndTrack test-drove S6 [3] and GS 350 AWD [4]. While the driveability results gap was a bit wider than Edmunds observed, the basic thrust was again, pretty the same. Moreover:
S6 - 16 mpg
GS 350 AWD - 20 mpg

So if testers are ready to ditch M5 dynamic prowess as these do not justify the not that huge price difference, clearly the S6 does not redeem its massive price disadvantage when faced with the GS 350.


[1] http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=117646/pageId=105510
[2] http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=130686/pageId=145834
[3] http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=4853
[4] http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=4851

Sorry, but from what i posted above, the 0-60 is 5.0-5.1 secs

Road and Track recorded a 13.5 sec 1/4 mile in the S6. Guess you forgot to look that up.

— AlexTx:

> Sorry, but from what i posted above, the 0-60 is 5.0-5.1 secs

Yes, and in their test GS 350 0-60 dropped to 5.3.

So I'm sorry, but the 5.2 450HP V10 in Audi S6 is just like a castrate. Surely it sings brilliantly but in terms of performance it has no balls whatsoever, being virtually tied by 3.5 300HP V6 in the Lexus.


— Heyhuub:

> Road and Track recorded a 13.5 sec 1/4 mile in the S6. Guess you
> forgot to look that up.

I didn't, I just pointed out Edmunds failed to achieve it. But you're not going to argue that shaving only half a second for 30.000 USD more and 150HP more and +1700cc more and four cylinders more is Vorsprung durch Technik, are you?



> Let's not forget that the S6 looks better than the GS350

Subjective matter.


> is more spacious [...] unlike in the GS which feels like a sardine can

Sadly for you, interior dimensions of both cars are virtually the same.

Audi S6 [1]

Legroom, front (in): 41.3
Legroom, rear (in): 36.9
Headroom, front (in): 37.5
Headroom, rear (in): 37.8
Shoulder room, front (in): 57.1
Shoulder room, rear (in): 55.9


Lexus GS 350 [2]

Legroom, front (in): 43.5
Legroom, rear (in): 36.4
Headroom, front (in): 37.8
Headroom, rear (in): 37.0
Shoulder room, front (in): 56.3
Shoulder room, rear (in): 55.1

Clearly, you just wrote BS once more. Only the boot is larger in Audi. So if you're gonna buy the car for carrying UPS packages, go for the Audi.


> is probably more fun to drive, even though fun is subjective

It is but it comes at a serious price of comfort. Let me quote:

"The S6's chassis tuning also seems out of step. The car's standard, low-profile 265/35R19 tires might deliver crisp steering response, but surely they compromise ride comfort, and the S6's ride is as stiff as a drill sergeant's mustache in any case. Audi engineers tell us they've tuned the S6 to a no-compromises standard for performance, but we couldn't help thinking that the Audi RS4 and new Audi TT both do much better in combining chassis control with ride comfort." [3]

Luxury might come before sport with both these cars, but both are exceptionally stable on the road and capable of higher cornering limits than their comfort levels may suggest. [4]


[1] http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=117646/pageId=105510
[2] http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=130686/pageId=145836
[3] http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=117646
[4] http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=130686/pageId=145759

starsearch.. find me a $52k A4 with the 2.0T....
Come on... find me one..
The only car with the 2.0T to be $52k is the Audi TTS which is a whole different animal with 270hp.

Here you have one. A4 2.0T quattro with some options that actually make it modern and competitive: 52.000 USD.

http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=audia4for52000usd.jpg

Remember, it's still just a compact executive car with a 2-liter 200HP engine.

Thank you StarSearch for explaining my simple point. Negative boost just proves accepting reality is too hard for many.

I see BMW as German equivalent to American muscle cars... big engines, lots of noise, poorly put together and every thing else is an after thought... just look at them el cheapo interiors :)

Benz > Audi > BMW

Why compate the 3 cars at all Car magazine and others have already said that the M5 is the better performance machine versus the heavy RS6. The S6 performs on par if not slower in some cases with the 550i and the E550, in fact both of these cars have posted faster 0-60 and quarter mile times. When the 550i gets the 400hp twin turbo V8 it will be that much faster than this exotic car powered V10 maintenance headache that has the power of an R8 and yet barerly keeps pace with the 535i. I suggest going back to the drawing board because unless you just want the engine(which I admit the S6 sounds great)there are much better choices from th 550i to the all new 80,000 XFR(which for almost 80 grand for an S6 there is no question which I would choose)the driving dynamics arent good, its relatively slow, and its not as good looking as the S8, overpriced, and the ride is horrible, maybe the next generation will be a better attempt but otherwise the A6 in general is a bottom of the pack car, in all variations.....sadly..

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn. Another predicatable fanboy response from bmwdrv. Yes, we know, we get your bias. And the 5-Series is such as step forward with donut rims and rubber sidings around the windows for $60,000. At least they could have put chrome around the windows and showed some quality.

The M5 gets absolutely raped by the RS6 when it comes to performance. Both on the straights and in the corners.

This is retarded, the M5 Does the 1/4 mile in 12.5 at 118mph, bottom line, it fucks the S6. The only one that'll be moving over is an S6 driver, when the M5 obliterates him. Keep it real please, if you said RS6, maybe youl'd have a point,just maybe.

Does Datsun have a Formula 1 car?

— LexSucks:

> Does Datsun have a Formula 1 car?

The comment of last resort, usually to be found in posts by frustrated fanboys. No, Datsun have no F1 car yet it didn't stop them from building the GT-R which has reset bars of performance, driveability, technology and "affordability" for all supercars on this planet.

The next RS6? It is already here: Here is a little review:

"Audi RS6 Saloon
22 September 2008
RATE:
Author: Chris Harris

Image:
I used to think that only mad people bought Audi RS saloons.

With BMW mostly refusing to build estate versions of the M cars, and Mercedes always going down their own route with automatic transmissions and less driving dynamics on the AMG tackle (now being reversed with some style on the C63, it must be said), if you wanted a fast, practical family wagon, an RS4 or an RS6 was the way forward. But then back in 2004, the last RS4 arrived, and the situation changed somewhat. Here was a car that drove so well, you didn’t need to work-around any dynamic deficiencies by opting for the estate version and explain the non-BMW purchase on grounds of practicality. Just to confirm this, Quattro Gmbh engineering boss Stephan Reil told me that 67 percent of all RS4s sold were saloons. Even now, he says, they’re staggered by that figure.

But it looked unlikely that this trend would continue with the new RS6. The estate version I drove earlier this year was everything you’d expect –fast, refined and beautifully assembled- but it was also very heavy and bereft of those wonderful control weights and supple damping that made the RS4 so appealing. It still made a better estate car than an M5 Touring, but the removal of the practical body style left you with the suspicion that this was another Audi RS saloon that would appeal to very few people.

It was with this in mind that I clapped eyes on the car you can see to the right of these words. Believe me, it looks even meaner in the flesh: like it would tear chunks from an M5. Now normally, it’s the estate Audi RSs that get the punchy coachwork - but with the new RS6, the saloon looks far, far more aggressive than the wagon. The way those blistered rear arches melt back into the rear overhang and the bootlid then kicks-up skywards is unexpectedly horny.

As is the way the saloon drives. Not much has changed, so you have to make do with 572bhp and 480lb ft of torque, a speed limiter that can be raised to 174mph and a six-speed auto box that does blip the throttle on downshifts. But according to Herr Reil, the saloon is 50kg lighter, and this has allowed them to reduce the spring rates on the car. These are small claims, but during my brief test-squirt, this car felt quite a bit more agile than the wagon. Softer springs also bring more ride comfort and allow the dampers to work more effectively. Not only does the RS6 have the ‘shall I just drop 200 yards of rear rubber for the hell of it’ but it also has the manners an everyday fast saloon: one that steers with considerable accuracy and offers all the usual Audi benefits of quality and security, it is undeniably appealing. Perhaps the most important piece of mechanical weaponry is the excellent transmission, it makes the BMW’s SMG effort seem unresolved and crude.

In fact, if you offered me the red car pictured here

The RS badge exsists allot longer than the last RS4. America isn't the world you know. THe 315hp RS2 competed with the E36 M3 and the 380hp B5 RS4 with the E46 M3. Just because you guys didn't get those doesn't mean they didn't excist.

Teknik for president

.....In fact, if you offered me the red car pictured here, or an estate version, I’d take the four-door. It looks so much better and drives well enough to make it more appealing. So there you have it – the new RS6 saloon: leave the dog at home.

& w/ the GS 350 u can completely spin the rear tires when u stomp it in the RWD car, leaving the 10 Cyl. Audi in Toyota tire smoke. If you want better exhaust sound, u can get a 460. & the Lex has a better sound system - u can hear the bass from down the blok.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

sure thing

>> we walked into an upscale restaurant to grab a beeper >> and wait for the first available table.

Gee an "Upscale Restaurant" with beepers! I'll have to lower my expectations of "upscale". If an staid overweight A6 is considered better looking than a 5 series, then I understand "Upscale Restaurant" with beepers!

"upscale restaurant with beepers"=cheesecake factory=poster is a loser

Audi RS6=M5's worst nightmare

Too bad we wont get it here...............

IMO the new RS6 is the nicest looking car in this segment by far