GENEVA MOTOR SHOW: Mazda Takes On Subaru WRX With The 260 HP Mazda3 MPS

All new Mazda cars look way too "happy" lol. Fun little car!

I think the mazda looks better than the subaru, but the subaru has the advantage of awd.

Don't underestimate Mazda, they are more than able to take on Subi

This car is unusually ugly even for a Japanese car. I didn't expect a monstrosity like this to come from Mazda. Much uglier than any Subaru I've seen and that says a lot. Shame on them.

I love your positive attitude!

— TheSailor:

> The Mazda 3 MPS [...] Mazdas half hearted attempt at breaking into the
> european hothatch market [...] it is largely a standard 3 [...]

Only unlike the standard car, it has the torque-sensing differential, the best possible one for front axle applications.

Did the Golf GTI have it? No? Leon Cupra? No way. Focus ST? Obviously not. Astra OPC? Neither.

Germans simply decided they wanted their hot hatches cheap, standard and unambitious. The results? Well, we'll see those in a moment.


> It was designed to run with the Seat Leon Cupra, Ford Focus ST, the
> Opel/Vauxhaul Astra OPC and ofcause the VW Golf GTI and the likes...
> They are all very good cars, the Mazda 3 MPS isn't!


2006 Sport Compact Comparison Test [1]

1: 2007 Mazda Mazdaspeed 3 / Mazda3 MPS
2: 2006 Subaru WRX TR
3: 2006 Honda Civic Si
4: 2006 Mini Cooper S
5: 2006 Volkswagen GTI (oh no, it wasn't German motoring press test)
6: 2006 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged

Moreover, the Mazdaspeed3/MPS had:
- quickest 0-60 time
- quickest quarter-mile time
- highest quarter-mile ending speed
- shortest braking distance
- highest lateral acceleration on a skidpad
- highest slalom speed
- shortest laptime (killing the Golf GTI by whole four seconds)


> It is horrible to drive

It's good for me to realize that when you comment on a car, you're completely making that up and pretending you know or you drove it.

"The Mazda had the quickest segment times at the Streets of Willow, not to mention the quickest overall lap time of 1:33.65. It also stopped short at 116 feet from 60 mph. Doesn't really matter how you spin it, the Mazdaspeed 3's performance is unmatched in virtually every category.

Just as important, the Mazdaspeed 3 also felt right. The controls delivered great feedback and inspired confidence. On rough roads this car wasn't always as composed as we'd like, but only the WRX was better over a less-than-perfect surface. The 3 is quick, communicative and powerful — the perfect dance partner.

This five-door hatchback also combines the most practical body style in this group with the best interior. We've always loved the Mazda 3's monochromatic black interior, and the new seats are very supportive yet make no compromise in comfort." [1]


> but unlike the MPS, they didn't find it necessary to give it the same
> AWD system...

Neither Golf GTI nor Leon Cupra nor Astra OPC nor Focus ST nor Megane R-something had or have an AWD.


> and it use fuel like it was going out of fashion

It's rather normal that the most powerful car in the pack returns lowest MPG.


> The only car in the hothatch market that I can think off which is
> worse is the atrocious Dodge Caliper SRT4!

See above.


And, oh, one more thing. Golf GTI was as slow as a Cobalt and least involving to drive:

" Fifth Place: 2006 Volkswagen GTI
The 2006 Volkswagen GTI offers upscale interior quality and feel,

[...] the practicality of a hatchback and a distinctly German driving experience. Ultimately, though, its suspension is tuned so softly that it simply doesn't handle as well as its competition. As a whole, it lacks the hardware and tuning to perform with the quickest cars here, and it's the least involving car to drive as a result.

Much like the Cobalt, the turbocharged GTI speeds to 60 mph in 7.2 seconds and reaches the quarter-mile in 15.3 seconds." [1]


[1] http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=117762

Hey "downtoearth",

How about a comparison from 2009 with all the compact cars under 30K including Cobalt SS, Dodge Caliber SRT-4, Mini Cooper S, Mitsu Ralliart, 2009 Subaru WRX, Honda Civic SI, Mazdaspeed 3 and the mighty GTI who obviously takes the top spot. Read and CRY:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sports/112_0903_sport_compact_car_comparison/index.html

— Star:

> [...] Mazdaspeed 3 and the mighty GTI who obviously takes the top
> spot.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sports/112_0903_sport_compact_car_comparison/cobalt_speed3_wrx_gti_specs.html

Mazdaspeed3 (mighty Golf GTI)
0-60: 5.6 sec (mighty 6.0 sec)
0-100: 13.9 sec (mighty 16.1 sec)
45-65: 2.5 sec (mighty 3.0 sec)
60-0: 112 ft (mighty 113 ft)
1/4 mile: 14.1 sec @ 100.6 mph (mighty 14.6 sec @ 94.9 mph)
lateral G: 0.87 g (mighty 0.87 g)
MT 8: 26.6 sec @ 0.65 g (mighty 26.6 sec @ 0.66 g)
track time: 1 min, 2.7 sec (MIGHTY 1 min, 3.1 sec)
Fuel economy: 22.1 mpg (mighty 18.1 mpg)


> Read and CRY:

Poor Golf, got lacerated so badly by the MPS 3 :(((((
Mazda made mincemeat from the GTI :(((((((

BTW, I always wondered how mincemeat tastes with Kraut:
http://www.milkandhoneyfarm.com/diary/images/canned_sauerkraut.jpg

Now, thanks to the MPS, there's an excellent opportunity to try!

downtoearth,

magazine racing again? The MSP LOST, buddy in the 2009 comparison proving again that faster doesn't necessarily mean better. You cannot slap a big turbo on a regular Mazda 3 and expect to become a GTI rival. Specs alone don't mean anything on a street car. Yes, Mazdaspeed 3 is a fast car but who cares when that comes at the expense of poor driving experience and build quality. The GTI is still the standard others are judged by.

— TheSailor:

> That is just silly... Your test included ONE of the cars I've mentioned

Golf GTI is widely considered the best European hot hatch. If it can be beaten, every other euro hot hatch can.


> Every european test I've seen of the cars I've mentioned didn't
> include the MPS or placed it at the bottom of the pack (or close to it
> anyway)

Motor Presse Stuttgart owns many titles [1]. So does the Axel Springer AG. First you make a car. Then you make the press.


> ... I've driven it myself (unlike you probably)

Please. Had you ever driven it (actually any car with torque-sensing differential), you wouldn't have written such nonsense. By the way, I'm not interested in your "experiences". These cannot be verified, thus are not credible.


> And check out some of the hot hatches I've mentioned as they actually
> DO have fanzy diffs.

Golf GTI - no
Focus ST - no
Astra OPC - no
Mégane Renault Sport - no (R-something got it finally AFAIR).
Leon Cupra (Golf GTI with worse plastics) - no


> Not that it really matters...

Go to Neckarsulm and tell it to blokes from quattro GmbH. They made their name (and the Audi name) opting, unlike competition, for torque-sensing diffs many years ago.


> And your review was american, so their handling test probably just
> included a dragrace...

Yeah. "Then we replaced the grocery bags with racing helmets and headed for the Streets of Willow Springs, a 1.8-mile road course featuring relatively low-speed turns appropriate for street cars." [2]

http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/trackinformation/StreetLg.htm


> Ohh - I can do the review thing too...

> http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=18339
> http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/204337/mazda_3.html
> http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/204243/mazda_3_mps.html
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/new_car_reviews/article1264967.ece

Why are you presenting me with "reviews" that quote manufactures data from a brochure? Some of them don't even have a gallery which means the "reviewer" likely has never seen a real car. A test that does not measure and deeply analyze/compare/put in perspective vehicle characteristics and performance is worthless. Making a car costs billions so lame ass "motoring journalist" with neither advanced measuring devices nor understanding of automotive physics and mechanical engineering basics have no right to test it. Obviously then can do it but no serious car enthusiast should care about what they say.


> Why does it succeed where the Mazda3 fails? Three little words:
> four-wheel drive. If it had it, I suspect the Mazda3 MPS would be a
> winner; without it, it is at best a flawed also-ran"

Now you're entering full-on fanboy bias mode. You quote 260 HP FWD Mazda MPS bashing due to the lack of all wheel drive*. Let's have a look how you commented on 300 HP Focus R

[...] Let's have a look how you commented on 300 HP Focus RS:

> — TheSailor, Posted on 12/16/2008 11:07:07 AM
> http://www.autospies.com/news/2009-Ford-Focus-RS-pricing-announced-38937/
> Finally a car to pick up the legacy of the Escort Cosworth... I think
> it is pretty sure that this will handle very well!

Wow! 260 HP FWD Japanese Mazda is useless and does not handle. But 300HP European Focus RS is supposed to handle well! You even recall the Escort Cosworth as its ancestor. Only you fail to realize Cossie had a permanent all wheel drive with 30%-70% rear-biased torque split, an open center differential with viscous clutch to shift torque after skidding occurred and a limited slip diff in the rear (with locking clutches AFAIR). You also fail to realize the Focus RS uses exactly the same traction-enhancing measure, nothing more nothing less than the MPS (RevoKnuckle is meant to reduce torque steer, not to improve grip) only it has to cope with 40HP more. No wonder they had to damp the engine on corners exits. Very ambitious approach.

Your bias is just pathetic, TheSailor. It's just pitiful.


* That's the only place where I agree. From my experience, about 140-170HP, especially from a forced induction engine, is already too much for an front wheel drive all season car.

[1] http://www.motorpresse.de/basis/darstellen/zeitschriften_ausland_darstellen.php?bereich=Automobil
[2] http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=117762

— TheSailor:

> WOW... Now we gone down to misquoting?! You forgot the most important
> part of my statement - that the car tested was in AMERICAN trim!

It was still the Golf GTI. Same engine, same chassis, same gearbox, same suspension, same drivetrain, same interior, same body. Maybe they have fiddled with suspension setup a bit. Adjusting details a bit doesn't make a different car. If it did, no new models would ever be presented. Only the old ones with revised suspension.


> And nice... All my reviews are biased because they prove that the MPS
> isn't nearly as good as the cars they compete with... That is just
> about the most childish argument ever...

"Reviews" you posted aren't biased (it is you who is). They're incompetent for reasons explained above: no measurements to support the claims, no testing equipment, no professional drivers hired to bring the car to its limits, no direct comparison to other cars.

These aren't reviews actually, more lavatory time killers.


> The Torsen differential thing really doesn't matter in a front wheel
> driven car.

Please, stop commenting on matters you don't understand. You simply insult people who do.

The British (so it's European, you should like it then, according to your agenda they should know better by default) company Quaife
http://www.quaife.co.uk/Differentials
makes a living from offering torque-sensing differentials for virtually all FWD cars on the market. You really don't know better than they do.


> That is clearly evident

That you start lying now [...]

> from the fact that only Japanese and American cars use torque diffs
> for front axle only

And French: http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/roadcars/megane230f1/overview/differential/Default.aspx

> (and the Ford Focus RS

So Britons do it as well. Seconds ago you claimed only Japs and Yankees a putting torque-sensing diffs in the front.


> As to the post you pulled forward, I hadn't seen anything on this
> previously except rumors saying it was AWD... So that was me
> commenting on a wrong assumption...

When pressed to the wall, you turn from a biased fanboy to a lying scumbag. Let me prove it.

You claim you didn't know anything about the RS drivetrain while praising it here: http://www.autospies.com/news/2009-Ford-Focus-RS-pricing-announced-38937/ (submitted on 12/16/2008).

Yet you also commented on another article: http://www.autospies.com/news/The-wait-is-almost-over-Ford-Focus-RS-raises-the-stakes-25729/ (submitted on 1/23/2008) submitted nearly a year ago which pointed to the clear statement: "All-wheel drive is not a part of the package, so the RS will probably draw plenty of comparison to its sister brand’s Mazda3 MPS [aka MazdaSpeed3 here in the US]" [1]

Everything becomes clear:
- you hate MPS because it's Japanese yet you praised the very similarly set up European Focus RS, using the same traction technology from the same man

[...] manufacturer
- you claim about not realizing the RS is FWD yet you got to know this more then a year ago
- you claim about torque-sensing diffs being useless in the front despite Quaife making it for nearly every FWD car
- you bash 260HP FWD MPS with the torque-sensing diff yet you praise the 240HP Leon Cupra with an OPEN differential

Congratulation. You've just reached Star/cappy/ChuckG37/EL34 levels. You may continue to the Lexus Museum post now and keep mocking this carmaker together with Star or cappy or whoever comments there, exploring the fun of mutual boosting.

Come now Star. Haven't we seen that ugly cars atually do sell pretty well? Remember the initial hoopla about Chris Bangle designs? Now we are seeing tears building in the eyes of all and sundry as he prepares to depart from BMW. Looks aren't what counts in the end, performance does. And reliability. Sailor may have a point that it isn't up to European standards of thrill-provision, but I'd give away a few tenths on the track for the knowledge that I will be driving home afterwards without a warning light or a complete failure occuring along the way. Forgive me, but I lost faith in Europe's ability to build lasting cars some time ago. This from a former VAG fan.

BMW NEVER built an ugly car, especially an ugly performance car. The criticism was coming mainly from people who think abominations like the Lexus GS or Infiniti M are beautiful cars.

I'm not sure what the fact that you lost faith in European cars is suppose to mean. All I can say is that I feel sorry for you. In every single segment(except hybrid) European cars dominate. The only thing the Japanese can claim is that they offer a percentage of the "real thing" made in Germany for less money. I say no thanks to that.

Aggressive Honda? Ha, ha, ha....you are funny. Even Buicks are more aggressive looking and performing than current Hondas. Your comparison is ridiculous since BMW is all modern and futuristic while Honda is stuck with building their own versions of the Crown Victoria.

— Star:

> BMW NEVER built an ugly car [...]

They fired head of their design department for fun.

Cheasyrider/Crappy and Star, a match match made in...

43LE,

did you not observe that nobody cares about your lame comments?

We are talking about cars here and while I understand that the subject is not familiar to you I can't help but imagine that even someone like you could succeed in posting something intelligent for a change, maybe even somewhat related to the subject of the thread you are posting in. I have faith in you.

Funny, you cared enough to write something to me. Judging by how many positive boosts I get sometimes, I tend to disagree with you. If you had half the brain I think you do, you'd have actually read some of my other comments and realized that some of them actually have thought in them. What I post is often relevant, just with at little twist. Autospies is just a little microcosm of the world we live in and people's attitudes towards cars are often a reflection of our attitudes towards others. That's what I'm commenting on sometimes. What you post is often hateful. What's better, posting hate or a social commentary?

You...positive boost? In your dreams. Thanks for the laugh...

They are usually much higher than yours...you can't deny that. But, you will, which is why you're delusional.

take off two of those doors.

SUBARU!!!! Putting the power to the ground and taking corners is what subaru is about! Mazda makes a great product but when it comes down to it comparing a AWD to a FWD is kinda pointless! Cant put up a fight with "BOXER" haha