Death Of A Giant? General Motors Own Auditors Now Cast Doubt On Survival

I may be wrong but somehow I cant see anyone else but you finding your comments humerus or entertaining on any level.

Please agents...you know what you have to do.

— mightypenis:

> Don't be a hater just because I get laid and you don't.

Nice to see you in good health, ButtMonkey!

I've recently found a great website, perfectly suited to your sense of humor http://www.urbandictionary.com Have fun.

Dude did they have a snow day today, go back to your 5th grade class.

The title should be opartial relief to all of the US tax payers.

Speaking on behalf of the taxpayers, this would cost the US government hundreds of billions in lost tax revenue. Not to mention the additional tens (if not hundreds) of billions required to feed the millions of un-employed. Not to mention the ripple effect that would tear through an already horrid national (& world) economy.... costing the taxpayer untold hundreds of billions.

Veyron1001, you prove once again that as great as the internet is, it allows stupid thoughts like yours to be stated.

"...hundreds of billions in lost tax revenue."

???

the revenue the gov't got from GM in recent years was ZERO, ZIP, NADA dollars! no company with huge losses has ANY taxable profits. on the contrary, it gets losses to carry over to reduce future taxes.

same applies to the marginal supplier companies.

(dealers, workers, and others associated otoh, maybe have been paying taxes.)

Actually, last I checked there are million of people directlyl/indirectly employed by the Big3. They pay federal taxes. The companies pay property taxes, etc. So when millions of people loose their jobs, they don't pay any federal taxes. Instead, they recieve government benefits.

So, from the "concerned taxpayer" point of view, these loans to the Big3 are a good idea. I don't want to have to pay for an avoidable hole in our economy just because some snobs have some philosophical ideas about business/economics.

Neutral. The GM workers had it too good for too long. They should not have had such great benefits for such simplicity of their jobs. I bet anything under management did not require anything more than a certificate to work there. I do not care if they lose their job. A person that can think ahead will have money saved for things like I dont know like how the economy is right now for instance. I am a tax payer as well.

veyron1001, I hope some day, when you grow up and start your own life (by that I mean living on your own means exclusively) that you never run into hard times. That you never have to worry about where your next check will come from because your bosses made poor decisions. I pray that you will also grow more compassionate about people that are down and out regardless of how they got there. Nobody deserves to go through what thousands of people are going through due to this upside down economy. Surely you understand better than most that we as contemporary people have become fascinated with living beyond our means... Take your screen name into consideration. Still, I wish you no ill intent, rather I hope that you will become wiser as you grow older.

I like to believe that the folks that frequent this website are Auto enthusiasts like me, I know Agent 001 is. Perhaps you might want to guard your words when being aloof to the current crisis. This isn't an arena to make silly and thoughtless political statements.

In conclusion, if it were your loved ones or parents that had worked in any of the current failing industries... No matter what money they have set aside, they too would be mortified about what their future would hold.

HA!

Where's UAW1 to argue these facts and put a spin on the story? GM is a poorly run company and the proverbial hare in this case while all of the other tortoise companies (Toyota, Honda, Ford) passed them by with better, more reliable offerings. I hope GM bites the big one.

"I hope GM bites the big one."

Yes, we all would like to see millions out of jobs, and America in a depression.

What can I say... ignorance is bliss.

If GM falls, Ford and Chrysler will follow. Hell Chrysler's been on crutches for over 20 years!!

actually, if gm goes down the tubes, ford will get a big BOOST. all the "domestics only" fans will flock there.

if chrysler also fails, even better for ford.

Good. I hope they fail with a flurish. This is what you get when you build crap, and have crappy dealers surcharging everything in site

Fear not Uncle Scam will come to the rescue and for the D-Bag at the top of the page look there is a use for abortion after all.

minhvunguyen

while I disagree with you on almost everything you say, I have to give you credit with your above statement as a hole, especially your comment,

"I personally don't like GM cars but I feel GM is working their asses off to make good cars and deliver high-risk technology to the market"

Finally, an honest person speaking logically. You state that GM has good cars and you recognize the massive effort GM has been putting forth, even if it isn't to your taste. I usually say the same for BMW (here comes the flame war), they make awesome cars but they're just not me. If I were to go German itd be 1-MB, 2-Audi then 3-BMW (talk about a difficult choice).

excuse my spelling, where I said "statement as a hole", should read "statement as a whole"

Re: "this would cost the US government hundreds of billions in lost tax revenue."

How can tax revenue be higher than the companies gross sales? Nobody pays more in taxes than they take in as revenue. What an absurd comment!

Please let GM die NOW so someone else can take it and make it work. This dragging out of the "flat broke" period is causing a lot of pain for workers and suppliers.
The sooner it goes up for sale, the sooner some billionaires can get the plants going again.
There are groups waiting for the life-support to be pulled and the current management to step aside ... please get out of their way!

Absurd,

Take a minute to think about what you are saying. Seriously...

GM pays people called "employees". These people then pay about a third of what they make to the government in "taxes". The rest of what these people make goes to buy things from "stores" or pay for "bills". Then, the recipients of these funds pay their "employees" who pay "taxes".

Quite complicated I must say.


The things people say....

Yes, I understand taxes ... I own 2 businesses generating millions in revenue.
But salaries are roughly 10% of the sales price of a car, so the 35% paid in taxes by those employees are less than 4% of company revenue on sales.

For GM to generate "hundreds of Billions in taxes" it would have to sell Trillions of dollars in product.

This is grade 8 math ... maybe you didn't make it that far in school?

Obviously you've never been to the State of Michigan. GM goes, so does the entire state, period. So does ohio, and the midwest in general. Then considering that we will never have a domestic auto industry ever again, the losses are impossible to calculate.

GM alone... lets say has 50,000 white-collar employees, at an average compensation of $60,000/yr. Now, assuming these people pay 1/3 of their salaries in taxes, that's 1 billion right there. These are VERY conservative estimates too, GM directly employs many more people and the average pay is probably more too. This doesn't even count suppliers or surrounding businesses, etc.

So you have some businesses, good for you, who cares.

You think some "billionare" is going to grab up GM's assets and make a "new GM" eh.... yea you're being a bit optimistic... what ever happened to AMC? Oh yea, Chrysler just shut it down. The Japanese/Koreans will just shut it all down and dominate, thus making us completely reliant on foreign countries not only for oil, but also for autos. Talk about more capital flight, money out the door strait into their R&D.

Now you're talking sensible numbers. 1 billion directly from GM-related income tax losses. Add in suppliers and you could be pushing towards 10 Billion. Significant numbers, but nothing close to 100 Billion.

As for the billionaires, they won't be Americans. They are Asians. They are also putting money into startups in China. However, they can't crack the US market without a dealer network, and there will be many thousands of GM dealers looking for product to sell.

As I've said before, the gov't just has to modulate the rules for takeover to force something like 50% of the current models stay in production (roughly the number of ones worth saving) and off-shore content creeps up slowly (it won't be any worse than with GM at the wheel ... selling Suzuki-designed cars built in the old DaeWoo plant in Korea and TrailBlazer SUVs with Chinese engines for a couple of years already).

So, the end result is that the "new GM" is foreign owned and controlled (like Chrysler was recently) ... but US plants and dealers and suppliers still have work. Just not at current levels (which are not economically sustainable regardless of the owner).

So, the question is: do you want to allow foreign ownership (and CASH) to takeover what's left of GM, but keep factories going and folks working, or would you prefer to keep GM American and flush the state of Michigan down the toilet in the name of national pride?

I'm being very cautious about that 1 billion dollar number. "experts" from the govt put the unemployed numbers around 600,000-700,000, so over ten times the number I just stated. When you count in that GM going down would actually wipe out most of michigan & the midwest, 100billion is no longer just some big number.

No one wants foreign ownership of GM. GM isn't lacking in the product department, they just got hit with the results of the govt not doing its job regulating the finance/energy industry. It's just a matter of finance, and being that GM is what it is, it'd be nuts to just let it go to some Asian interests.

The trailblazer's engines are not built in China, the inline-6 is built in Tonawanda NY and 5.3L V8's are built in Michigan.

What you are illuding to is the ranting of the anti-detroit cheerleaders whining about the 3.4L V6 that went into the Equinox/Torrent. It is the same workhorse 3.4L that GM used for a long time in just about every application but as a few years ago, only 1 platform used it. GM made space in its NA factories for new engines and cleared the 3.4L machinery to china. People use that example as the rallying point for the notion "GM isn't american like Toyota". In any event, the 2010 equinox does not use that engine, it has the 2.4 I-4 and 3.0 V6, all direct injected, made in USA. (and they both will have USA built 6 speed trannys).

As for national pride, yes, I don't want foreign interests controlling GM, thatd be ridiculous. Like I said before, it's just a matter of financial doing, not products, development, etc. GM would have been just fine if oil wasn't allowed to spike and the economy didn't collapse as a results (yes the housing market was a sham, but oil-futures were the straw that broke the camel's back). It IS national pride, and America will be stronger once GM is back on it own, DOMESTICALLY OWNED feet. With such an international position like GM has, as well as its fierce stance to compete in the US market, why just give it to some foreign interests. In that scenario, bondholders loose out, stockholders loose out, etc.... just like an out-of-court restructuring that's happening now.

BTW: I have been to Michigan, and find that much of it is very natural and beautiful ... especially further north up the Peninsula. My grand-parents' grand-parents are from the Flint area, and my grand-mother's maiden name is Dodge. I don't want to see Detroit die, but delaying the break-up, sell-off, and re-organization and re-deployment of GM's assets and workers will kill Detroit.
GM is dead. Long live GM!

I can honestly say that will be very sad news if a thing like this would actually happen. If GM goes down that will affect the entire auto industry in a very negative way. All you Toy/Lex haters out there beware and make no mistake about it..."The defectors are coming by the drones"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's what happens when you build crap cars. Don't blame the economy. The BIG 3 were in trouble long before the Banks started failing.