BMW Follows Other Major Automakers Into The Abyss, Profits Fall 90% in 2008

If people start getting banned for not adding anything "constructive", this place would become pretty quiet.

He needs to be banned because his handle is derogatory and offensive, never mind his lack of input.

So BMW made LESS profit...what's the big deal? Like others said, they still made profit.

Imagine if this story was about Toyota or any other Japanese company losing 90% profit? I wonder what the comments from these same people would be...

Excellent news! BMW is overpriced.

On the positive side, they still made a profit.

bingo. find another automaker who made a PROFIT for the year.

"find another automaker who made a PROFIT for the year."

Toyota
2008 PROFIT: USD 17.15 billion

Volkswagen Group
2008 PROFIT: EUR 4.68 billion

BMW
2008 PROFIT: EUR 0,33 billion

Well, it's only:
- 14 times less than VG AG
- 40 times less than Toyota Motor Company

Believe you me, BMW would sell cars if there is money out there. They are just experiencing what every company is going through. No one's fault per say.

Fortunately, Audi's profits rose 30% in 2008.

Audi +30% in 2008
BMW -90% in 2008

There is no better summary of how much Audi is superior over BMW. They not only make cars technically better and better looking. They simply answer customer needs much more accurately.

Profit is based on revenue minus expenses, no? With less profit and the same amount of cars sold, doesn't that just mean Audi customers are getting raked?

30%? Last time I checked, they fell 30%.

Audi was actually more profitable than BMW in 2008.

But 2009 will be tough for everyone... it is time to separate the men from the boyz, and this year will do it.

Expect BMW and Mercedes to get REAL cozy this year, they may need to pair up to make it through the hard times. Of the German luxury brands they are the most vulnerable.

Easy BMW fans! Being independent clearly did not serve as an advantage to BMW in 2008. Look at BMW now teaming up with Merceds-Benz to get through the crisis.

What is Audi doing? Comfortably relying on economies of scale thanks to its backing by corporate parent Volkswagen AG. Look at Audi's 30% profit increase for 2008 along with record sales....Audi was actually more profitable than BMW for the full year of 2008.

I do not think that many will take the fact that Audi has a parent company as a necessarily good argument for their 2008 profitability. Most like the fact that BMW is independent, making their own cars. And speaking of which, it may make sense from a financial standpoint, but I would like Mercedes and BMW to avoid a merger by all means possible. A merger would mean less independence, less creativity stifled by competing egos, less competition meaning slower cars not to their full performance potential... all hypothetical, of course.

I mentioned a while back that BMW will have to merge with some one due to their independent nature and the high cost of doing business that way. Mercedes is a logical partner. When the times get tough the German's historically have teamed up with each other to get through it. These hard times are no exception.

I can guarantee you Germany as a country would not let their two hierarchy brands go south to extinction. It just won't happen. Not that anyone is saying they will, but you better believe they would be backed if need be. BMW joining with Mercedes for some cost savings is a pretty smart idea, and will help them in the long run to have a short term merge of sorts.

As for the profit fall, look at the world economy. Audi sales went up because people didn't want to pay sticker for a BMW, they went to the Audi dealer and got their discount. Now that right there is my own matter of opinion comment, lol. Don't take it to heart.

If you already mass produce a car that is less expensive version of another, it is not hard to take the base components, add some extras and luxo-options and charge more. This would create a wider profit margin. Apparently the Obamites never took economics even in its base form. If you have a higher profit margin on a product, then you...cmon now...thats right! Show a higher profit! So if BMW is BMW and there is no Honda equivalent, then they are paying a higher margin on cars and making less profit per vehicle. Therefore if BMW made $2,000 for every 3-series it sold and Audi makes $4,000 on every car. You can see where the cost falls into place. BMW is slightly higher priced than Audi in most respects so the general math is not hard to do.

Last time I checked Audi designs its own cars, platforms, engines, and maintains its own R&D budget from its own profits. Again another clueless remark from somone trying to justify an overpriced overrated bmw existence.

Also to point on in the US at least, BMW reveled in a surge in the early and mid 2000's in ownership. But given the economies and people being more thrifty and worry-some, they may not go for another high priced loan or lease. Gas goes up...people take a train and buy a Prius. Economy goes down...people start to save more.

Somebody tell Obama to stop his ludicracy, each day America dies a little more.

"Somebody tell Obama to stop his ludicracy, each day America dies a little more."

- How is BMW's financial situation Obama's fault?

Audi is actually more expensive than BMW in many markets around the world. Don't worry though, Audi's prices are rising too. Look at the A4 3.2 and how everyone complains its too expensive. Same thing goes for the S4, S5, S6, S8 etc.. and also the RS4 and RS6.

Bottom line: Company's are in business to make a profit and with Audi making a lot more of it than BMW when times are tough,, Audi will be better prepared in terms of their future product development when times get better.

Audi could just leapfrog Mercedes-Benz for 2nd place in the premium luxury arena this year.

Man many of you are so misinformed regarding Audi profitability. Audi HAS to make its own business case and profit as an independent company. VW doesn't contribute to Audi in terms of business development. Read the bylaws of the VAG before making such stupid comments. Audi made its profit because of its solid business plan, its culture, and its products. Whatte douche is nothing more than misguided soul going down with a sinking ship and Anthony is clueless on how Audi operates if he assumes Audi made its profits dependent on VW. They are all and purposes separate companies. Simply, BMW had a piss poor business plan where they wanted to move volume over profit without thinking of the consequences. Y

"Read the bylaws of the VAG before making such stupid comments"

You are commenting on something you can't name properly. Company called VAG does not exist. Neither on their websites nor in their documents or releases you will find a singe reference to such name.


"Audi HAS to make its own business case and profit as an independent company. VW doesn't contribute to Audi in terms of business development"

1. Audi A3 is a VW Golf.

2. Previous Audi A4s from B5 (1994) to B7 (up to 2008) used VW Passat B5 and B5.5 platform, chassis, engines, transmissions, drivetrains and other components.

3. Touareg shares same stuff with Audi Q7.

4. VW Phaeton uses chassis, engines, trannies and other components from Audi A8.

5. Some time ago Audi A2 was based on VW Lupo.

6. Virtually every engine used in a Volkswagen is to be found in an Audi model too. There are really few exception.

That's why BMW has to pair up with Mercedes. Because they can't do what Audi does with Volkswagen since ages.

Another point.BMW's growth was largely driven by leases. Being that credit has dried up they are highly vunerable now.

"Another point.BMW's growth was largely driven by leases"

Which is the other neat way round to say BMW were bought by people who were unable to afford them.

I must be reading it wrong? But isn't a drop from 3.1 billion to 330 million, almost a 1000% drop?!? Correct me if I'm wrong.

90% of 3.1 billion is 2.79 billion which, when subtracted from 3.1 billion is about 310 million...so yes 1000% is incorrect.

Oh ok. The article says a drop "to" 330 million... When it should've said dropped "by" 330 million. That's where it didn't make sense to me.

Agent250, thank you for bringing that up. I understood it exactly the way you did and we weren't wrong by that.

I knew the X6 was a huge mistake. LOL...

Ugly does tend to have that kind of effect (among other things). The market is weak but you can’t blame everything on the economy.

BMW makes nice cars but they are far from perfect. I just ended an 8 year relationship with a BMW (2001 330i). I liked the car and was going to keep it for the long-haul, but since ALL cars with that kind of mileage (103,000 miles) are going to need major repairs, I decided that the money would be better spent on a new car.

I looked at the newer BMWs (3-series) and things like; Run-flat tires (although the run-flats are better now from what I’ve heard. they are still expensive to replace and hard to find), No-dipstick, 15,000 mile Oil-change intervals, No Limited-slip Differentials, and the reduction of gauges turned me off. And then there’s the aesthetics; Small looking wheels, non-painted brake calipers (the calipers look crude), Candle-light colored illuminated Corona Rings around the headlights, and too many rounded exterior body panels combined with sharp creases (not a good combination IMO). The cars just started looking weird and generic. And did I mention the cold, stark, Spartan, boring interiors? I was also tired of the orange illumination for the gauges.

Looks have never been a BMW strong point but at least in the past they had all the “drivers” stuff covered. The only “drivers” stuff that they have covered now is only the actual drive. And to be honest you can get very close to that (surpassing it in the case of my EVO X MR) while not giving up any of the drivers stuff. I was a Hardcore BMW guy. But when it came time to get another car, the choice was easy NOT to get another BMW. And with the direction that they seem to be headed in now, I doubt I’ll ever get another one.

very accurate description...

That's like starting with $50,000 in your bank accound and loosing $45,000 of it you still have $5000.00. Yes, still not zero, but is really profit?

A reduction in profit is still a profit. Much better than many other companies out there.

This is a huge loss by any measure not even counting the fact that BMW had one of the largest profits margin for every stripped down tin-can they sold, I guess that takeover by Benz will happen after all.

Star will be crying himself to sleep tonight... in his bimmer jammies and hist MSport night-light :)

Hahahah...I hope BMW goes bankrupt. Hahaha, Star, that poor little kid everyone laughs at.

Teknik/DocMarten... Autospies idiot is back.

VISO is just speaking the truth. Audi does their own R&D.

Troll alert....DocMarten is the "old" Teknik.

Troll defending another troll?

Troll Alert! Whatthe is the old amazing idiot.

TOYOTA PROFIT for the year
2008 PROFIT: USD 17.15 billion ????

Toyota has not released oficial data until March 31, 2009 but it's probably -5 billion not +17.15 billion!!!

Fanboy
you are as ignorant as can be, proof please, anything, technical datas, anything. You are so wrong and you have your head so fat up you arss that I will not even go point by point to prove you wrong because it will just be a waist of my time. And I'd rather you stay stupid and ignorant. It fits you well.

The sad part there other fools like Whatthe that boost you up.

Again, Audi do not leverage off on VW's platform besides the A3. when are you going to learn? You can't stay that ignorant for that long. I have one for you guys; the Porsche Panamera is said to use the electronic networks from the Audi A6 C6 platform, does that make the Porsche an expensive Audi or does that make the Audi a cheap Porsche?

How stupid can you get. Audi never had an A1. It doesn't exist yet. Phaeton is steel and the A8 is aluminum. The list goes on to defeat you ignorant arguments. For automotive enthusiasts, you sure know very little. Fanboy, The A2 was aluminum. How is that a Polo? You are really stupid.

The new and previous A4 had nothing to do with the Passat. The new A4 sits on its own Audi developed platform. Everyone knows this. Do some research and the information is out there.

How much more do you need to prove your ignorance. Keep on going fool, you make us laugh...hahaha

Volkswagen AG’s Audi luxury division said profit jumped 30 percent last year because of new models and sales growth in China and eastern Europe.

Net income increased to 2.21 billion euros ($2.81 billion) from 1.69 billion euros in 2007, the Ingolstadt, Germany-based automaker said in a statement today.


In an unscheduled preliminary earnings release, BMW, the Munich-based company, said its net profit for the full year dropped to euro330 million ($416 million) in 2008 from euro3.1 billion in 2007.

hey minivanguyen,

I do dot worship any brand, well maybe Aston Martin, just a little. The matter of the fact is that when I see ignorance, especially towards a brand I do work for, then that irritates me. And you are very irritating.

You are obviously, either some dumb kid with no education, or some fanboi trying to ramp us up. Because there is absolutely no way that any grown up with some automotive education would say the stuff you are saying about Audi and VW. BTW like Viso said, do some research, this has also been debated on Autospies about a "gazillion" times.

So, which one are you; the kid or the fanboi?
Or are you just plain stupid?

Plain stupid comes to mind. Must be the son of Whatthe. They share the same ignorance and absolutely fail to do research to get the facts. But, when you're ship is sinking as there is, you try to hold on. They no crap and do not have any intelligent to add to the discussions.

Believe me: no hate here. I like BMW's also, but I can't let this one pass on without blaming it at least part of it)on Bangle's design. The damage that he and his team did to the 7 series will take years to forget.

Even more...the last thing I want is for BMW to do bad. But mistakes so evident must be recognized. BMW needs to come up with a nice flagship and it better be nicer than the upcoming A8.

I'm amazed how some people are ignorant to a point where they deny pure facts. Why is so hard to accept facts? Obviously BMW didn't plan everything out as they should. They still have profit which is good but not good enough for largest luxury car maker. Audi clearly did a lot better job. Don't start now with VW sharing theory. I think Viso made it clear. Just accept facts!I will give you my personal example. Even though I am just a student( faculty of building construction) I already worked on one project. In my bussines not accepting facts means a lot of people will die. That is why please open your eyes!

lol seriously...
I love reading Autospies, but everytime I do...I see this guy: 'DocMarten' make a comment about BMW. All I see from DocMarten are comments about 'BWM 90% loss, BMW is a sinking ship' etc and followed on with a bunch of other bull$hit. You don't even post anything productive, but preach your hate towards BMW just to tell everyone Mercedes and Audi are better. Okay - they're better. Big deal! Like all industries - automotive, finance, internet, gaming consoles, soft drinks, all companies experience a time where 'when they go up; they must come down'.

BMW will sometimes be more successful than its rivals, Audi will sometimes take that spot, and so will Mercedes-Benz. Its a competitive rotation! Everyone knows that Audi has finally 'picked up its gam'e and now its moving up ahead of BMW AND Mercedes. Mercedes-Benz has also had a few problems in the past with regards to its 'quality' and 'image'. And now, BMW are experiencing some financial problems.

Your aggressive and degrading attitude towards BMW makes you look like you care about BMW more than an actual BMW fanboy does. Look at yourself - after clicking on 10 links; I've seen the same topics relating to BMW and maybe an additional sentence to encapsulate the actual topic being discussed.

Now, you can flame back at me, give me a whole page essay, say this and that; but bottom line...talk about something else! So what if Toyota or Merc buy/takeover BMW, it doesn't say anywhere that Toyota or Merc will last forever ;) You'd be surprised. =)

If DocMarten can go around posting the same shit about the financial stabilty, reputation and future of BMW, I might as well repeat myself with this comment. And change it a little to pass it as not being spam. -_- XD

lol seriously...
I love reading Autospies, but everytime I do...I see this guy: 'DocMarten' make a comment about BMW. All I see from DocMarten are comments about 'BWM 90% loss, BMW is a sinking ship' etc and followed on with a bunch of other bull$hit. You don't even post anything productive, but preach your hate towards BMW just to tell everyone Mercedes and Audi are better. Okay - they're better. Big deal! Like all industries - automotive, finance, internet, gaming consoles, soft drinks, all companies experience a time where 'when they go up; they must come down'.

BMW will sometimes be more successful than its rivals, Audi will sometimes take that spot, and so will Mercedes-Benz. Its a competitive rotation! Everyone knows that Audi has finally 'picked up its gam'e and now its moving up ahead of BMW AND Mercedes. Mercedes-Benz has also had a few problems in the past with regards to its 'quality' and 'image'. And now, BMW are experiencing some financial problems.

Your aggressive and degrading attitude towards BMW makes you look like you care about BMW more than an actual BMW fanboy does. Look at yourself - after clicking on 10 links; I've seen the same topics relating to BMW and maybe an additional sentence to encapsulate the actual topic being discussed.

Now, you can flame back at me, give me a whole page essay, say this and that; but bottom line...talk about something else! So what if Toyota or Merc buy/takeover BMW, it doesn't say anywhere that Toyota or Merc will last forever ;) You'd be surprised. =)

If DocMarten can go around posting the same shit about the financial stabilty, reputation and future of BMW, I might as well repeat myself with this comment. And change it a little to pass it as not being spam. -_- XD