Because Twin Turbos Aren't Simply Enough? BMW X5 May Use Tri-Turbo Diesel Engine

I can imagine that the torque number must be monstrous, maybe 600lbs ft. It takes a lot to get that much HP out of a diesel. I think they can make it work.

I know 001 one will like this..

Are things that bad at Lexus where they had to sink to the level of hiring "david969" to continue their legacy of diceptive/misleading advertising?

Pardon: deceptive/misleading....

BMW diesels and the LX570 both get an EPA clean rating of 6 in non CARB states.

At 12/18mpg and 13.1 tons of CO2 a year average the LX570 is NOT a ulev vehicle. Hell a base Yukon can get 15/21mpg and only 11.4 tons of CO2 a year. Heck that thing is comparable to only the 6.2L Yukon Denali which gets 12/19mpg and 13.1 tons of CO2 a year.

Sitting in a vehicle will not make it green. Nor cheap. Nor use less fuel then when tested.

Yo, Blue Hair, obviously the LX570 is anything but green. But, surprise surprise, it's miles ahead in efficiency than Mercedes GL 320 Bluetec DIESEL when taking LX power into account.

Let's see. To cover 15.000 miles (45% highway, 55% city driving split) the LX570 needs 24,5 barrels of oil and emits 13.1 tons of CO2. [1]

For the same distance the Mercedes GL 320 Bluetec DIESEL needs 20.7 barrels of oil and emits 11.1 tons of CO2. [2]

The problem is the Lexus is a V8 380HP off-road ready machine. The GL Bluetec diesel is 215 HP oversized urban soccer mum bulk carrier.

So the Lexus LX is 18% less efficient but whopping 78% more powerful! And it never needs AdBlue fill up to be relatively clean, likely cleaner than Bluetec diesel. Its turbochargers will never fail. Cause it doesn't have any. It's fuel supply and exhaust treatment systems are much sipler thus more reliable, cheaper to maintain.

You see? Even a stupid old fashioned petrol mastodont engine is much more efficient than ulta modern diesel when you take power figures into account.

The only reasons why BMW engineers push this diesel nonsense are massive sunk cost in this technology they already bear and packs of brainwashed customers in Europe who will buy inferior technology that works well in ships and septic tank trucks only.

Sources:
[1] http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year=2009&make=Lexus&model=LX%20570&hiddenField=Findacar
[2]http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year=2009&make=Mercedes-Benz&model=GL320%20Bluetec&hiddenField=Findacar

fine, I have used numbers to prove the LX570's inferiority, and now I shall use your same tactic. The Denali's comfort and luxury are bested by no one! The engine is bigger more powerful and more fuel efficient then the smaller weaker more polluting Lexus. The ride in a Yukon is par none! The Escalade is close, but you need tinted windows if you ever want to own/drive an Escalade. Why don't you read some reviews and find out why GM still sells more full sized SUV's then any other manufacturer. :) it feels good to argue without using numbers.

"The problem is the Lexus is a V8 380HP off-road ready machine. The GL Bluetec diesel is 215 HP oversized urban soccer mum bulk carrier."


Oh please. Not this bullshit again. The Mercedes GL is just as offroad capable as the LX. Read some reviews and see the praises this SUV has garnered for its offroad capability.

You strike me as one of those people who thinks the GL is a softroader just because it has a Mercedes badge. FYI every Mercedes SUV on the market at the moment is quite offroad capable to very high standards. The G, GL, GLK and ML are all worthy performers in this criteria. Read some reviews, then comment.

Key idea of my comment was how inefficient BlueTECs are. And I proved my point by quoting credible sources, as I always do. This was waterproof so you had no other option left than being picky about details of less importance.

Me:
| "The problem is the Lexus is a V8 380HP off-road ready
| machine. The GL Bluetec diesel is 215 HP oversized urban
| soccer mum bulk carrier."

— Wimmer
| Oh please. Not this bullshit again. The Mercedes GL is
| just as offroad capable as the LX.

This is a perfect example of a German joke. Or symptoms of serious poisoning with Sauerkraut - saying every possible nonsense to make German cars look fair.

Sorry chap, but LX 570 comes as STANDARD [1] with
- manually lockable center limited slip TorSen differential
- crawl control
- downhill assist control
- hill-start assist control
(military vehicles usually also comes with all of those above)

The Mercedes GL 320 CDI BlueTEC urban mum bulk carrier comes with... NONE of these [2]. You can't even add such equipment.

But don't worry. You can still order all weather floor mats. Makes you invincible off-road when storming Karakorum in a GL.


| You strike me as one of those people who thinks the GL is
| a softroader just because it has a Mercedes badge.

See above.


| FYI every Mercedes SUV on the market at the moment is
| quite offroad capable to very high standards.

It is more capable than BMW X5 (which is absolutely immune to offroading) or Audi Q7 (not much better). But don't even mention the GL with Land Cruiser and LX in one grasp. It just gives you bad name.


[1] http://www.lexus.com/models/LX/detailed_specifications.html
[2] http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/MBHome.html#/vehiclesMenu/exploreSpecs/?vc=GL&vmf=GL320BTC&yr=2009

Torsen's suck, we use them in our formula car, and we are trying to get away from it. As to all those electronic nannies, I don't think actual rock crawlers and things you will find in the bush have them. meh, back to the topic, a tri turbo diesel would be effing sweet!

I bet MrBratworst and david999/969 have adjacent carrels inside the toylex internet propaganda center.

My brother has an ML350 which he regularly takes on offroad excursions in the mountains of Colorado where he lives. He's also part of an offroad club made up of SUVs from all brands, be it mainstream of luxury. I've been along for the ride twice before and let me tell you, the ML is a damn fine offroader and very capable in difficult terrain.

— MrBratwurst "The problem is the Lexus is a V8 380HP off-road ready
| machine."

Hey, I'm off-road alot I have yet to see a LX or GX in the back-country. Oh by the way should you be whining about the fuel economy of the LX like you did on the BMW 760, or does't it count because its a Lexus.

— America

| I bet MrBratworst and david999/969 have adjacent carrels
| inside the toylex internet propaganda center.

I post credible sources every time I make a statement. You don't even know why I do this, Star/EL34.


— Joe_Limon

| Torsen's suck

Tell this to Audi engineers who have built the legend of quattro on TorSen center differential. And continue to do so. Tell this to Subaru, Land Cruiser, Lancer Evo, Focus RS (well, not TorSen but a very similar setup) engineers as well.

| we use them in our formula car, and we are trying to get
| away from it.

Because TorSen type diffs don't work well in racing. Too much lateral G which makes inner wheels virtually devoid of traction, situation which does not allow TorSen based systems to do their magic. In ordinary everyday road usage there's not better differential though.

| As to all those electronic nannies, I don't think actual
| rock crawlers and things you will find in the bush have
| them.

Whatever. Its presence identifies vehicle purpose. GL on the other hand has no such things cause it's key purpose is to make you feel "bigger" in the urban jungle.

| meh, back to the topic, a tri turbo diesel would be
| effing sweet!

It will just extend diesel pointlessness.


— Willis

| let me tell you, the ML is a damn fine offroader and very
| capable in difficult terrain.

When equipped with two additional diff locks (center and rear), it is. But you cannot have those on GL BlueTEC diesel. Why? I already explained.


— theoptimisticpessimist

| Hey, I'm off-road alot I have yet to see a LX or GX in
| the back-country.

It's not car maker fault people buy off road capable vehicles and virtually don't use them as intended. How many 22 inch rims low profile tires Range Rovers leave tarmac?

| Oh by the way should you be whining about the fuel
| economy of the LX like you did on the BMW 760

At the very start I made it rather clear LX is a very environmentally unfriendly vehicle. I just wanted to prove that GL BlueTEC diesel is actually even worse. I made it because a lot of people have been misled diesels are "eco-friendly".

| or does't it count because its a Lexus.

Why are you imputing that my views are brand-related? Can't you see I prove my point quoting sources? And then I prefer a more fuel efficient vehicle, not a particularly badged vehicle?

There are dozens of tools commenting on this site who are absolutely ignorant in terms of automotive technology and are here to promote some brands and make others look bad. Sorry, but I have nothing in common with them.

To give you an example:

If you are in need for a 7-seater children carrier SUV, you should buy AAA BBB Hybrid instead of XXX YYY diesel (even the first one offers disappointing performance in my opinion though).

Why?

Because to cover 15.000 miles (55% city, 45% highway split) AAA BBB Hybrid needs 13.2 barrels of oil and does 0-60 [1] in 7.5 sec.

Meanwhile, XXX YYY

Meanwhile, XXX YYY diesel needs 20.7 barrels of oil [2] (57% more) to do so while achieving 0-60 in some 8.5 sec (13% slower).

Now will you tell I prefer superior, more efficient technology or will you accuse me of being biased to AAA badge, although such one does not exist in the world of motoring?

Sources:
[1] http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year=2009&make=Toyota&model=Highlander%20Hybrid%204WD&hiddenField=Findacar
[2] http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year=2009&make=Mercedes-Benz&model=GL320%20Bluetec&hiddenField=Findacar

MrBratwurst

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." – Mark Twain

Here is the fallacy in your argument; first “55% city, 45% highway split” is not a split it a city bias favoring the hybrids, my commute is 75 % highway and 25 city, so your information is useless to me Which vehicle is better for a individual will depend are their driving conditions. Biased is shown in your choice of cars you are using as comparison vehicles the Toyota Highlander is NOT a competitor for the Mercedes Benz GL. Again your stats are biased and are just used to prove your argument and are not real world relevant.

“So the Lexus LX is 18% less efficient but whopping 78% more powerful!”
Well that’s not exactly true is it.

Here is the raw data a came up with; (supplied by manufactures respective websites)

MB GL 320 LX 570

HP 215 383 Advantage Lexus
Torque 398 403 Advantage Lexus

MPG
City 17 12 Advantage MB
Highway 23 18 Advantage MB


Vehicle weight
LBS 5313 5995 Advantage MB 682 lbs

Vehicle price
$58,200 $75,855 Advantage MB $17,655

It also seems the Mercedes uses 682 pounds less of natural resources and fuel use to transport them. I noticed that when you state “whopping 78% more powerful!” you neglected to mention torque numbers which are a mere 1% less than the Lexus but the LX extra weight gives a clear advantage to the Mercedes. When I shift into 4 low I’m looking for torque not horsepower. Which one would I take off road, neither their both to big.

As far as you other arguments go, I have read your past post, and you do show a strong anti German car bias and pro Asian. There is nothing wrong with that, everybody on opinion is their right. To claim your like more fuel efficient cars when you quickly jump far to quickly to the defense of the LF-A (a V10) the GTR (by no means an economy car) and the LX (a near 3 ton behemoth with a combined fuel economy of 14 mpg)is a bit convenient.


As a firm believer if free speech, say what you want but realize that your stats on closer examination are just spin.

In much the same way that torsen's suck in racing, they also suck off road where lifting wheels is a huge issue. 30 years ago the Torsen was god among everything 4wd. Now it is outdated by numerous better differentials. If a company sells vehicles with nannies that will never be used... that means the people who buy that vehicle are getting ripped off.

As to you MrBratwurst, I hate most merc's and I think there bluetechs are useless. That is why I compared the Yukon :) similar power size and luxury.

Stop bringing lexus in bmw thread, please!

MB said recently they were were going to be changing AMG's over to diesels, if that's true this would make a heck of an answer from BMW for a diesel M. 354hp and 565+lb-ft torque (estimated based on the % hp increase versus the current 335d)? That'd be a monster.

You are such a Negative-Nelly. These turbo engines are winning awards right and left just like their normally aspirated predecessors did. The problem with most turbo engines is lag and non-linear power delivery. BMW solved those problems. The turbo solves other problems such as providing higher fuel economy when the engine isn't being pushed hard.

Just stop with your cynicism. It isn't healthy and it makes you look silly.

"Here is a list of non-Jewish German Nobel Prize science winners:"

haha wow, did you really just do that?

What a bunch of racist rot. "1/2 of NASA's researchers are also Chinese, NOT German." I would bet you the majority are Americans. By Chinese I assume you mean Asians, and I bet you just made that up. Regardless is still racist tripe.

I love the biased car fan wars....go, go, GO!!!

Good luck to BMW in the reliability and maintenance department when the tri turbo x5 is in its second or third birthday.

"Honda doesn't even benchmark the Germans anymore."

Maybe thats why Acura becoming such a failure, oh wait, there is the ZDX. So you just keep on making stuff up.

"the RDX is what the ZDX and X6 are trying to be except"

Do you no anything about the luxury market at? The RDX is a copy of the X3 (and a failure). The X6 is a competitor for: the Ranger Rover sport, Porsche Cayenne GT and, if you would have thought about it, the Infiniti FX(check the pricing point, power and desing). The RDX you’ve got to be kidding. As far as the X6 being a failure, once again, you’re wrong. It sold out it first production run world wide and BMW, started another run to answer demand. Take a very close look at the ZDX if you don’t think it’s a blatant copy of the X6, well you’re a party of one in the Northern hemisphere.

The X6 and the RDX, I’ll give you some leeway, its late in the afternoon, maybe your drunk.

I admire the capacity for wrongness.

“The X3 is a competitor to the CR-V except it looks like a shoe.”

WRONG

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/crossovers_and_suvs/2007_bmw_x3_vs_2007_acura_rdx_2008_land_rover_lr2_comparison_test/2007_bmw_x3_3_0si_comparison_test

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=120623

Oh by the way the BMW won.

Show one article that compares, says, or hints that the CR-V is an X3 competitor Statements like this are just lies to yourself.

“Range Rover Sport and Cayenne are SUVs, the X6 is a "SAC" becuase it can't compete with SUVs.”

WRONG AGAIN !

Here’s some more road test for you;

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/112_0805_2009_bmw_x6_vs_infiniti_fx35_comparison/index.html

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080814.003/bmw-x6-xdrive50i-vs-porsche-cayenne-gts-at-nurburgring

“We can tell you the BMW X6 xDrive50i put in a best lap of 8min 54.4 seconds, but the Cayenne GTS was left crawling behind beyond the 9 minute barrier and more than 7 seconds a drift with a time of 9 mins 1.9 seconds.”

Yep, the BMW won.

“X6 sold out worldwide. Where have you been? Sitting on a dealer lot does not equate to being sold. Learn the difference.”
LEARN TO READ AND WRONG AGAIN.
If you would have bothered to read my post correctly, you would have I was speak of the first production run (http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080509.001/bmw-x6-is-sold-out) BMW increased production to comply with demand. The cars you see on the lots are from the second production run. Personally I don’t understand why people love this car but it does sell. I also believe this a very limited market and can’t understand why Acura wants to jump so badly in it.
— huu76 Embrace facts, embrace the truth.