The Spies Want To Know - Which Car Brand or Model Do YOU Think Has Hurt Its Maker Most in Image and Credibiltiy?

I was watching a show on the BBC the other evening when a commercial for another show came on that featured an Audi from the mid-80's.  That image for whatever reason reminded me of the Audi 5000s and the whole controversy surrounding the numerous unintended acceleration claims that arose.

In the end Audi was exonerated from any wrong doing, however the damage had been done.  Audi struggled for years in the USA, and most likely where it not for the A4, probably would not have made it here in the USA given the image created by the stories that proved ultimately to be false.

Fast forward to 2009, and a viral video showing some employees doing things that are disgusting to food while working at a pizza shop again demonstrate how quickly an image can be destroyed - in this case by stupidity of some poorly hired employees.

It got me thinking about cars and some of the true winners and losers we have seen in the last 12 months or so.  We have discussed at length Hyundai's rise with both the Genesis sedan and Genesis Coupe, but Hyundai has systematically been studying the market and refining the products it sells.

How about the cars that haven't been good for their makers.

Yesterday in traffic I was behind a GMC Envoy XUV, what a flop that was!  The original Lincoln Blackwood was a dismal failure quickly pulled from the market.

You get the idea...

What car, truck or SUV do you think has done more harm than good to its maker?  Image is everything, and just like Audi back in the late 80's, that image can be harmed by a poorly timed or executed design, or worse yet a vehicle that answers a question, or meets a need people didn't ask or need.

So have some fun, but check in and share your wisdom with us.

When you get done, be sure to check out the exciting Shanghai Auto Show Gallery, Agent 001 is in China covering this exciting event.

Also, show the world your exclusive car pictures on our scrolling banner by sending your pics to Mobile@AutoSpies.com

BMW4me4ever - 4/18/2009 10:32:57 AM

+1 Boost

you are a goof. The 1-series doesnt compete with a Hyundai. Did you know that a 1992 BMW e30 325 conv had a Suggested MSRP of $40,250? A 135 conv with alot larger engine, more technology, safety features and a tremendous more of a car is only $4k to $5k more.

My 135 coupe arrives next month and can't wait. The car is so much fun

AgentOrange - 4/18/2009 4:14:53 PM

-2 Boost

The 1-series runs rings around anything and everything coming out of Korea (and anything else coming out of the far east for that matter).

KZ258 - 4/18/2009 7:12:02 PM

+7 Boost

yeah guys the 370z did beat the 135i especially on the skidpad

Jordanski - 4/18/2009 11:16:02 PM

+1 Boost

"BMW hands down. Why create a 1 series to compete with Hyundai when Hyundai doesn't compete with BMW? It doesn't make sense."

Why act as if you have a brain even though you don't? It doesn't make sense.

crslmn - 4/24/2009 12:25:55 PM

+1 Boost

The lane change speeds were both 67.1mph and this is a better test than driving around a 200 foot circle. The skid pad is more about tires than the vehicle.

100tnega - 4/18/2009 10:14:54 AM

+11 Boost

Jeep - Compass
Chrysler - All models (except the latest 300)
Dodge - Avenger
Chevy - Cobalt
Pontiac - Aztec

upwards - 4/18/2009 11:05:41 AM

+2 Boost

Cobalt ss Smokes anything in its class,


http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/sport_compacts/2008_chevrolet_cobalt_ss_first_drive_review

Bmw8ter - 4/18/2009 2:40:38 PM

+2 Boost

Shoot, the Cobalt SS smokes cars outside of it's class, of various drivetrains. But he was probably referring to just the base model Cobalt/G5.

LDMAN - 4/18/2009 10:48:00 AM

+9 Boost

Range Poseur Sport. Sorry, I meant Range Rover Sport. Although X-Type is pretty close.

MrBratwurst - 4/18/2009 12:41:27 PM

+4 Boost

— LDMAN:

| Range Poseur Sport. Sorry, I meant Range Rover Sport.

From marketing point of view, this car is exactly what it's supposed to be.

Affluent buyers no longer want Range Rovers with go-anywhere ability. They want 3 tonnes blocks of steel with aggressive looks and good handling to display their superiority over other road users and intimidate them.

RR Sport role is to be European Cadillac Escalade. Only, according to American tastes, the Caddy is even bigger and more floaty.


| Although X-Type is pretty close.

This is an interesting precedence. Ford Mondeo, the car X-Type was derived from, is very popular and acknowledged. Yet when Jag made a premium version of it, still possessing Mondeo virtues, adding some prestige and inflating price, everyone bashed it.

Meanwhile, Audi A4 B5-B7 and Volkswagen Passat B5-B5.5 were technically the same cars (similarly to X-Type - Mondeo pair) and very little negative comments were issued about this state of affairs.

It looks like often bias is so intensive that people mock some brands for recycling technology among models yet other brands are "allowed" to do so without punishment.

enthusiastx11 - 4/19/2009 12:21:22 PM

+3 Boost

you guys nailed it with both the x type and range rover sport. sad, sad poseur cars based on less expensive platforms and pretended to be high-end.

ChevyFan100 - 4/18/2009 10:50:04 AM

+8 Boost

The Cadillac Cimarron and The Aztec and EV-1 really hurt GM
The Explorer tires exploding really hurt Ford's image in the 90's
I don't think anyone remembers the Blackwood
The newer Sebring & Avenger and almost all of their interiors from the 2000's to now hurt Chrysler's image

crslmn - 4/24/2009 12:29:42 PM

+1 Boost

The EV1 was the electric car that "everybody wanted" that they could not sell. What a waste of a $1,000,000,000. Remember Toyota couldn't sell an electric car(RAV4 EV)either.

B7FAN - 4/18/2009 11:00:53 AM

+7 Boost

the blackwood #1 on my list everything els falls behind it

Agent001 - 4/18/2009 11:02:23 AM

+4 Boost

Subaru Tribeca with 'special' grill that's no longer available ;)

001

t_bone - 4/18/2009 11:03:39 AM

+4 Boost

I think MINI is about to do it...with a crossover.

But the Porsche Cayenne is the worst abomination.

crslmn - 4/24/2009 12:31:02 PM

+1 Boost

It sells better than the 911

Jordanski - 4/18/2009 11:37:07 AM

0 Boost

Hands down, AUDI 5000.

MrGunFun - 4/18/2009 11:41:57 AM

+3 Boost

BMW X3

Drerx8 - 4/18/2009 11:42:49 AM

+8 Boost

x-type and catera or cimmeron caddies

LauderdaleDriver - 4/22/2009 10:31:43 AM

+2 Boost

I think the Cimarron has to go down as one of the worst marketing moves in Cadillac history.

But the Chevy Vega takes the prize for me. It was actually an attractive design, but the quality was sucked out of it by the finance guys, who left Chevrolet with a car that rusted out on the dealer lots, and fell apart quickly.

To me, the Vega symbolizes everything that went wrong with GM in the 70s, so it gets my "worst" award.

Joe_Limon - 4/18/2009 1:02:55 PM

-2 Boost

Newest WRX, still hasn't grown on me, it looks like a riced out Mazda 3, and I have no idea where they get there germans must be envious commercials from. Last gen MR2, Eagle Vision, Scion xB, VW rabbit, I would say the Cayenne... but they are selling. Benz's g-wagon (say what you want, I still think it should have been updated 40 years ago).

LDMAN - 4/18/2009 2:17:53 PM

+1 Boost

@MrBratwurst- You must be a LR connoisseur, then? OK let us talk LR.

L320 is unworthy of the Green Oval. It is probably the most road biased LR product ever made. Even L314 tried to cling to its off-road heritage, without a diff lock, and transfer box. Remember Trophy Tierra del Fuego?

Screw affluent buyers. If they want three ton steel block that look good at valet parking and get stuck at the beach they can get a Cayenne, an X6 or whatever.
Granted, RRS made money for LR but just for the short-run.

In the long run the badge dilution damages will outweigh the benefits. I have heard the same weak justifications from various product managers in the past. Sorry boys, LR is all about having balls not cutting them off. The key work is breadth of capability.

To add insult to injury L32O is just a SWB L319 with a RR badge (just like Cayenne is a Touareg with a fancy badge).

The whole tough luxury concept was created by RR Classic in the 70s. The concept was that one could buy a RR from HR Owen in London and drive it straight out of the showroom down to Cape Town, through Africa, without changing the tyres.

The only redeeming social value that LR had is that, yes, they weight a lot, drink fuel, but perform well off-road. They had a purpose.

Now years later, having been raped by the Germans and the Frod (yes pun) Motor Company it is no longer relevant and will soon be relegated into oblivion.
Once the mystic is gone, sales will disappear, too.

Do not even get me started on X400 and the Mustang based replacement that was supposed to follow.

mercuryguy - 4/18/2009 2:27:32 PM

+1 Boost

I like how someone praised the Chrysler 300. I owned one, pure junk, nothing more than my Old Intrepid with a Blig Bling body.

I love how we judge quality in this country. if it has blig appeal, it must be a good car.

The 300 was certainly no flagship, take a nap at a rest stop after about 500 miles into your long intersate trip, you tell me how great the car is. Funny thing is, The Crysler 1979 New Yorker or Cordova was more to the standard of flagship worthiness, somehow companies cut corners and shoot themselves in right in the foot in the relentless pursuit of cheapness.

And we blame line workers for the cheap tactics of engineers and management. A person who snaps part A to Part B is somehow to balme for our decline.

crslmn - 4/24/2009 12:36:00 PM

+1 Boost

The 79 New Yorker that they could not give away was better than a 300M? I believe you should stick to the Grand Marqius. There is a reason only Ford still makes a car like that.

Agent00J - 4/18/2009 3:53:00 PM

+4 Boost

I missed your point, could you make it again.

-00J

Bmw8ter - 4/18/2009 2:51:22 PM

+3 Boost

Saab - 9-7x(what a joke)
Saab - 9-2x(the badge was probably the only nonSubaru part on the car)

Joe_Limon - 4/18/2009 3:00:22 PM

0 Boost

actually... I would even say the AMG black series is hurting the MB image. It looks like they went to Japan, and got the cheapest body shop possible to come up with a kit.

Joe_Limon - 4/18/2009 3:08:55 PM

-2 Boost

Actually... I expect to be flamed a lot for this next comment. But imo, The Audi R8. They have a nasty reputation for catching on fire, They have no balls (fewer ponies then a SRT8 Charger), yet consume way to much (fewer mpg then a SRT8 Charger), if you see one in real life it looks amazing... then you walk up to it peak inside it's engine bay and become underwhelmed by the miniscule size of it's engine and the amount of "framing" around the engine. Finally, at the end of the day it still doesn't have a sub 8 minute ring time.

AUTO_UNION - 4/18/2009 3:23:09 PM

-2 Boost

That is why the 5.0 came out! Satisfied? If not, get yourself a bugatti veyron.

Joe_Limon - 4/18/2009 3:30:28 PM

-3 Boost

The 5.0 is useless, why get an audi when you can get it's bigger brother lambo for the same price?

Joe_Limon - 4/18/2009 3:31:43 PM

-5 Boost

sorry, I guess it's 5.2*

Joe_Limon - 4/18/2009 3:32:42 PM

-4 Boost

And no, walk up to it, and have a good look at it, and tell me that there is as much framing as there is engine in that bay.

JUGNU - 4/18/2009 4:24:14 PM

+2 Boost

Joe_Lemon
I think R8 is the biggest contributor of Audi's image and credibility. And charger SRT8 comparison is totally wrong, R8 may have less horsepower but is fast in every way. 0-60, lap times, braking, handling, stability and those supercar shape/looks, technologies, advanced engine, luxury, refinement and high level of engineering and attention to details. If you are after JUST horsepowers than look no further than American cars, corvette, vipers, challengers, camaros...etc.
I have driven R8 and charger(not SRT8 yet) and there is no comparison. 2 weeks ago i was driving Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 and could imagine what Charger SRT8 would be like. If you stretch it maybe charger SRT8 would be like Corvette or Mustang but not R8.

btw i think R class and B class hurts MB image. Both should be discontinued.

JUGNU

Joe_Limon - 4/18/2009 4:54:24 PM

0 Boost

Oh I agree the cars aren't in any way comparable, I was comparing the engines. The engine in the R8 is pathetic. And no, the ring time for the R8 currently lies at 8:04, absolutely pathetic, considering when you are buying a supercar and there are sedans for half the price which perform better. For an awd supercar, having a 0-60 time of 4.4s is really quite sad. No, the only reason this car is doing audi any good is because it's a supermodel.

vman1013 - 4/18/2009 9:38:42 PM

+4 Boost

Toyata Tundra! It was Toyota's run at me too and couldn't have come at a worse time. Hence, the management shake up!

investor27 - 4/18/2009 9:47:15 PM

+5 Boost

I know this is not going to win me a lot of brownie points, but I got to say that Mercedes E-class has ruined the Mercedes' bullet-proof reliability, and therefore, its global marque brand. The 124 model E-class was the last bullet-proof E-class model Mercedes ever built. You can drive that car for 100,000-250,000 miles, and you won't encounter any shakes, rattles, electrical problems, engine problems, mechanical problems of any kind. The Mercedes now a days are not living up to the standards set by the 123 and 124 models, and that is why the resale/residual values of Mercedes are so much lower than that of their BMW counter-part.

Jordanski - 4/18/2009 11:12:45 PM

0 Boost

SAABARU.

rawbux - 4/19/2009 1:58:22 AM

+2 Boost

Scion. Crap!

Roboto - 4/19/2009 2:37:39 AM

-2 Boost

i got some more bad news for the germancar cheerleaders. check out this
3 year study from JD power and associates. lets make the germancar cheerleaders cry a lil bit...lmfao

Most Dependable Cars

Which vehicles produce the fewest problems in the first three years of ownership? J.D. Power and Associates has released its 2008 Vehicle Dependability Study, which lists the most dependable cars and trucks for the 2005 model year. Based on problems reported per 100 vehicles, Buick tied Lexus as the most dependable manufacturer.
Most Dependable Cars
Click on the image or model name to read the vehicle's 2005 Cars.com report.
Category Best in Category Other Top Picks
Subcompact Hyundai Accent

* Scion xA
* Chevrolet Aveo

Compact Toyota Prius

* Mitsubishi Lancer
* Toyota Corolla

Compact Sport Mazda MX-5 Miata

* Toyota Celica
* Subaru Outback Sport

Midsize Sport Chevrolet Monte Carlo

* Toyota Camry Solara
* Mitsubishi Eclipse

Midsize Buick Century

* Mercury Sable
* Toyota Camry

Full-Size Ford Crown Victoria

* Mercury Grand Marquis
* Buick Park Avenue

Compact Luxury Sport Honda S2000

* BMW Z4 (tie)
* Porsche Boxster (tie)

Entry Luxury Lexus IS 300

* BMW 3 Series
* BMW X3

Midsize Luxury Lexus ES 330

* Lexus GS 300/GS 430
* Acura RL

Full-Size Luxury Lexus LS 430

* Lincoln Town Car
* Cadillac DeVille

Luxury Sport Lexus SC 430

* Ford Thunderbird
* Porsche 911

All vehicle segments were assigned by J.D. Power and Associates.

Source: J.D Power and Associates 2008 Vehicle Dependability Study

The table represents the vehicles with the fewest problems reported in the first three years of ownership, according to a vehicle dependability study by J.D. Power and Associates. More than 52,000 original owners of 2005-model-year cars and trucks were surveyed.

3pointstar - 4/19/2009 3:50:11 AM

+3 Boost

Some American cars are NOT on par with the rest of the world. The highly touted Malibu and Impala still use cheap hard tuperware quality plastic for the dash. The door handles on a Cadillac STS don't pull back smoothly. Sure they start fine like all cars these days, but it's the little things that GM is losing to Toyota and Lexus on.

enthusiastx11 - 4/19/2009 12:23:25 PM

+1 Boost

who cares.

Bimmer3er - 4/20/2009 1:13:44 AM

+1 Boost

JD Power isnt everything sir!!! And get your numbers with the sales .. if it is a bad car in dependability - 3 - series wont be selling like hot cakes all over and be rated the best car for past coupla decades in that class!

Roboto - 4/19/2009 4:40:33 AM

-3 Boost

kids if you readover the JD article...you wont see many of your fav DoucheMobiles aka german Cars...
so much for the overpriced overhyped douchemobiles...

Bimmer3er - 4/20/2009 8:19:06 AM

+1 Boost

Ever wondered why only the Japanese cars head the JD list and Buick of all names in dependability study - they are driven by oldies and they dont even care if they have a problem with the car and no one pushes the car to their limits - so aint it obvious what kind of dependability we are talking about .. and if you wanna stretch your dependability on your german car - drive like one in 70 .. that would run until your centennial birth anniversary!

America - 4/23/2009 6:41:14 PM

+1 Boost

Bimmer3er is right on! Any study where the sample self selects itself is invalid. It you want real data you would need to randomly select drivers to drive the different cars you wanted to study and then see what differences appear, but no one does this. Instead they ask the people who CHOSE these very, very different cars. These people are from different demographics and different psychographics. They drive differently, have different expectations, and different lifestyles from each other. A 70 year old who putters around and a spirited 30 or 40 something will have vastly different experiences even if they were in the SAME car.

Just Say NO to Invalid Statistical Measures.

skinny - 4/19/2009 10:28:41 AM

+3 Boost

Hummer & the Hummer H3. Not at all a real Hummer! Just a dressed up Chevy COlorado pickup or whatever it is.

Bimmer3er - 4/19/2009 11:52:10 AM

+2 Boost

Ford
-Pinto
-Taurus (Until 2010)

Toyota
-Solara


BMW
-1-series

Chevrolet
-Cavalier/Prizm

Chrysler
-Sebring

Nissan
-Quest
-Titan

Honda
-Ridgeline

Kia/Hyundai
-Rio/2-Dr Accent

Audi
-All affected models in the 80s

Mercedes
- C-class before last refresh

Dodge
-Neon

Runamukk - 4/19/2009 4:30:55 PM

+1 Boost

As far as manufacturers go, I'd have to say Saab and Hummer have been totally screwed by their parent company.

DarylVT - 4/19/2009 9:22:18 PM

+1 Boost

Pontiac; everything they've done. Folks will single out the Aztec, but why? All their models rot. The tag line "we build excitement"? More like "we build excrement!" And does anyone remember the commercial of the blind woman having fun with a Pontiac in the salt flats? Yeah, 'cause only a blind person COULD enjoy something they put out!

Joe_Limon - 4/19/2009 10:04:15 PM

+2 Boost

Everything? I would say half their products are duds, but not everything.

Autopinion - 4/20/2009 11:06:55 AM

0 Boost

The Ford Product Planning and Design Staff. The Mustang was a bright spot but we also got the Thunderbird and 500. While their truck line was making boatloads of money in the middle of this decade their design staff was busy applying that dopey three bar brand identity strategy on a bunch of emotionless cars. And then comes along the Flex, somewhat interesting, but compare that to the Toyoto Venza. The Flex will be off the market in three years and the Venza will be a category best seller. Fords relatively healthy position today is amazing given how design has failed it!

Joe_Limon - 4/20/2009 2:16:12 PM

0 Boost

oh right! the flex! Now that is a beast of a car. And by beast I mean ugly as sin.

Krazeeddd - 4/24/2009 10:59:17 AM

+1 Boost

Ford does need to face the fact that the Flex is a disaster. Too big, too expensive, too thirsty, but mostly too ugly. (I admit, great interior - Ford can become the American Audi if they keep it up whith great interiors)

It seems like they should clean up the much more attractive Edge (remember they still make that) stretch it a few inches to put in a third row and deny the Flex was ever a serious effort. Then again the Flex is so ugly it will move a few Ford fans up to the MKT instead which no doubt has a much higher margin.