LOL: Measly BMW 328 Stripper Beats Infiniti G37 Sport In C&D Comparo-That CAN'T Be Good For Infiniti!

All value issues aside, there is something about 3-series that make 'em phenomenal to drive.

At low speed, Yes.
At higher speed, initial UNDERSTEER like everyone.

Dynamic at apex is good though.

Congratulations BMW! Nice Job Again!! It isn't a surprise to those of us with experience driving them all.

very true Nanner.........what can I say the 3 series is a special car whether its the 328 or the M3 that car is built so well and so equally balanced its sort of the perfect premium luxury coupe or sedan in its class. if it beat the infinti G37 and their was all this hogwash about the G37 will beat out the German brands(comparable cars) with the G37 now look.....Its like BMW was already 2-3 steps ahead of them because the new 328 came out about 2 1/2 years ago.

you make a very good point. I drive a 323i and i love it. despite the lack of immediate power, it feels fantastic to toss around.

.........Badgewhore..you said "The 3 series is good, but the g37 is simply superior in dynamics. How? It was designed to be better by a company that knows how to get the job done right." ....can you explain I mean this doesnt tell me anything but your opinion..... I didnt deboost you but I want to know why you said what you said

Here comes the next flame war.

At the end of the day, the 3 is a great sports sedan. And I would bet money that most of the haters on this site that mock "magic feel" and constantly trash the brand have not had the opportunity to drive a 3-Series and to appreciate what a great car it really is.

And it really isn't about the initial drive, as much as it is about the drive year in and year out.

The G37 is impressive, and has quite a "wow" factor from the grunty, peaky engine and exhaust. The BMW probably doesn't have the "flash" on the first drive, but without question, you will love the 3 series more a year from purchase, than you did when you bought it.

I can't say that about ANY other car I have ever owned.

It's like the new super bright VIVID flat panel TV's. Flashy in the store, but living with them is just not as easy as living with one that has true blacks, and correct color calibration.

I wonder when the last time I post this will be. Here are some results from a few years back, I don't feel like recompiling...

READ THE MAGAZINE. Here are some test results:

Z4 M vs Cayman S : Porsche wins
SUV Comparo: MDX 1st, Caddy SRX 2nd, X5 3rd
Uber Sedans: E63 1st, Audi S6 2nd, M5 3rd
Full-sized sedans: MB s550 1st, Audi A8 2nd, 750Li 3rd
Sports cars: 370z 1st, 135i 2nd, RX8 3rd...

That is 5 different BMW models that lost comparo tests. And the list goes on.

Maybe if you clear your mind of these ignorant disillusions, you might understand that C&D IS NOT BIASED TOWARDS BMW.

That was aimed at some comments below...

henbmw, that just proves the point that when a non-BMW wins they are being fair and when BMW wins they are biased. What other explanation could there be? The only other possible explanation is that BMW wins so much because they make consistently better cars and that is simply an uncomfortable reality to swallow for those of us of the asian persuasion.

NOT BIASED? See my post below:

just got the C&D, G37 lost to 328 '3' points in fuel economy alone, 2 to 5. How funny..... My 328 averages 23 mpg and G35 averages 20 mpg. I'll say it's 4 to 5.

And engine flexibility 3 to 4? My, since when a 7600 rpm lost to a 7000 one? NVH-wise I agree I-6 is better than V-6(though I found IS350's did a great smooth job, NISSAN needs to catch up on that), but flex? No comparison.

BIASED.

This is BIG news...

001

Not huge news 001.

The 3 has bested the G in the past several C&D comparos. I think your headline is slightly misleading. It makes the G37 sound like a loser when it is still a great value and sports sedan.

This is the same result as the last comparison from C&D. But this title does generate more traffic and thus more revenue for the agents.

BS article from C&D again, and, will again.

335? Yes. 328? Only if you're not into driving/racing. VQ37 is 'almost' like an E46M3 engine, and that alone is a thrill that 328's, being smooth, just cannot match. And for me 335's turbo, being pretty fast, still doesn't bring that kind of mechanical thrill.

For so long the arguments have been about G37 vs. 335i becuase that's the way Infiniti PR/Advertising likes to position it and and the un-initiated believe it.

This is just one more source deflating that and showing that it can't even beat a 328, let alone a 335i.

Doesn't mean it's a bad car or not a great value but a gold case on a Casio does not make it a Panerai.

I like the Infiniti but it ain't no 3.

I'd rather have it than an Acura TL for sure.

But you get what you pay for and I will always spend more to get the authentic item.

001

Flame war BS, you know that.

328 is very good for (average) girl's driving speed. That's all. Money aside I'll take 335, but never 328.

Agent001, some time ago, when Motor Trend happened to compare BMW 335i vs Infiniti G37 and said Infiniti was a better car, you wrote something like this:


Agent001:

| Motor Trend says Infiniti G37 beats the BMW 335.
| Does their opinion REALLY matter?"
| But the bigger question is- Does their opinion
| REALLY matter anymore and will their review have
| any effect on public perception and more importantly,
| sales?
| We say five years ago maybe, but not in today's world.
| The car mags have become irrelevant in our opinion
| and will never return to their former luster.
| There is only one opinion that really matters anymore
| and that is yours.

Source: http://www.autospies.com/news/Motor-Trend-says-Infiniti-G37-beats-the-BMW-335-Does-their-opinion-REALLY-matter-16933/
Article by Agent001


Now, when Car and Driver chose BMW 328i over Infiniti G37, you say:

| As I paged through the new issue of Car & Driver
| at the supermarket (yes, I am a PAID subscriber [...]
| The LOWLY 328 SMACKS the best thing they got, the G37
| in the latest C&D comparo.

So, there we are.

If BMW loses the comparison, then the car magazine is irrelevant, its opinion does not matter.

When BMW wins the comparison, then the car magazine that issued it becomes a great source of relevant information. You inform us you have paid subscription of it and that it will even influence Infiniti advertising.


Agent001:

| For so long the arguments have been about G37 vs. 335i
| becuase that's the way Infiniti PR/Advertising likes to
| position it and and the un-initiated believe it.

I'm sorry, but Edmunds Insideline, Motor Trend, Automobilemag and Russian Autoreview.ru (likely many others too) all compared 335i agains Infiniti G37.

Are you suggesting they are all "un-initiated"?

Mr. Bratwurst - I don't know what it is about your name, but engaging you in discussion is always fun.

Motor Trend is an advertiser paid publication that caters to the advertising dollar. The more you advertise, the better your cars and products make out in comparisons. Motor Trend tends to test the cars that lean more to leisure than sport, a perfect example is the road test you reference wherein the BMW in question was an automatic.

I am sorry, but a sports sedan available with a manual should always be tested. Granted, fewer manuals are sold these days, but the availability of a manual does indicate the makers desire to compete in a sporting arena.

Motor Trend also compared a BMW 135i against a Mitsu Evo - and shock of shock declared the BMW a winner, auto transmission and all.

Motor Trend is all fluff and NO substance in my opinion. Pretty perhaps, but capable of an intelligent conversation, NO.

-00J

What a joke you are "AgentJ".

You say MotorTrend doesn't count because their money comes from ads. Where the hell do you think CarandDriver gets their income? It ain't from the crappy quality car accessories line they have.

Mr. Bratwurst had a logically written and insightful post showing just how far and high reaching bias is here. Your crappy counterpoint offers no supporting evidence against his point.

Infiniti's G and BMW's 3 are both great cars. Bottom line comes down to personal choice no matter whether you are a buyer, a magazine writer, or just some lonely-ass fanboy on the internet.

Did I say C&D is right?

I said I found it funny that the G37 couldn't beat the 328 in their review.

And I said a review like this can't be good for Infiniti.

And a review like this should be reported to our audience which likes all premium car brands.

So it's relevant to us.

And yes, if you read the comments of SOME of our readers, any sentient human being knows they are un-initiated and follow the hype, not the reality.

And the reason the others compare the G37 to the 335 is because they are invited by companies like Infiniti to review the car and the PR people have the model they want it compared to at the event, hence they report it, so they KEEP getting wined and dined, invited and they scoop the ad dollars.

They have them in their pockets.

Look how the SECONDARY review (the review about 6 months to a year AFTER the launch of a car) in a mag always has a totally different outcome.

Because if they DON'T heap praise, they ain't getting to the next auto event or the next ad campaign.

We don't care. We like being invited but we tell it like it is no matter what the outcome.

Because we know if we do that, we get the audience and even though they HATE it, they have to keep bringing us in.

So thank you all for coming over and over and appreciating how we have changed the game in order to empower YOU, not them, which is how it USED to be.

It is our honor to serve you.

All heroes need great courage to raise the bar for everyone.

001

dlin = david969,999,959. I got a great laugh once I figured it out, THANKS!! ;-D

Agent 001, you are so full. You got caught being bias. What the hell is up with all this garble you just spewed, just admit it, be a man and admit your bias. Your own words in print for time and eternal shows it.

BS NannerPus, I am not david969,999,959.
They don't own both G and 3.
And you don't either, right?

Just got the C&D, G37 lost to 328 '3' points in fuel economy alone, 2 to 5. How funny..... My 328 averages 23 mpg and G35 averages 20 mpg. I'll say it's 4 to 5.

And engine flexibility 3 to 4? My, since when a 7600 rpm lost to a 7000 one? NVH-wise I agree I-6 is better than V-6(though I found IS350's did a great smooth job, NISSAN needs to catch up on that), but flex? No comparison.

BIASED. BMW won, for those badgewhores dreaming of affording one. You can get mine after I got the Z370 or Z4(not decided yet).

Driving experience aside, yes the BMW is the hands down winner(IMO) people(at least in USA) are still value oriented. Will they opt for the BMW base for the same price ish as a well equiped Infiniti... I still think the G is close enough in the drive that the value will win with those customers which there are alot of them. BMW will still sell alot of the 3 series to the people who value the engineering not the percieved value of cool tech toys.

I got a loaner (323i) for my M5 that is being serviced. I am just so impressed with it and its below 1/3 the price of M5... I am telling you they are just packing value and making these cars better and better.

The 323i hasn't been around since 1998. I highly doubt a dealership is using a 10+ year old car as a loaner. If you are going to make BS posts, at least be smart about it.

They discontinued the 323i in 2000.

Why was I deboosted on a TRUE statement?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E46

BMW has an amazing 3 series from 328i to the 335i and the mighty M3 these cars and very solid, great cornering and very reliable. I own a BMW and have driven every generation of the 3 since the 80's and they seem to only get better and better!

I take issue with this:

"VQ37 is 'almost' like an E46M3 engine"

The only thing similar about these engines is perhaps the horsepower rating, and the fact that they are both 6 cylinders. There is nothing else even close.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the Nissan VQ, and respect it. To not give it its due is to show one's ignorance. But the E46 M3 engine is in a league of its own. Those who would not agree with that statement have not strapped in behind it and blasted around a track.

I will still replace my G35 with a G37. Yeah, I am a loyalist, but I still think it is a better value then the 2.8.

American car magazines have gone to crap.

I can see the 335 beating the G37 but a 328? The 328 doesn't even have an LSD. I guess during non-sprited driving the BMW prevails. Anywhere else, the G37 owns it.

The 335 doesn't have LSD either.

"The 335 doesn't have LSD either."

- I never said that it did. And that's why cars like the EVO X destroys the 335i around a racetrack (it isn't even close). But the 335 does have a killer engine. Something that the 328 doesn't have.

I'd take the BMW 3.0 i6 over just about any Lexus engine...

Agreed, LexSucks. That's exactly what I felt owning both 328 and G35.

I read the article. First it's Car and Driver. BMW's are a 90% sure win. In the summary the editors even said... "yeah, we're still drunk on the Bimmer Kool-Aid". Hmmm. Second and even more important, the BMW (stripper?) was still more expensive than the G and it won BY ONLY 2 POINTS. 2 POINTS. doesn't sound like a slap-down to me.

Tell me why the M5 has been thrashed recently by C&D? Does the BMW bias not apply to one of BMW's most expensive cars?

Wow, the Acura TL continues to fail, and fail, and fail.

Watch what you say. Mikeydred and Blackura will disagree with you.

Who told you that from day one?

Read what the mags said that got invited to their press launch...super complimentary, NO mention of the ugly BEAK, etc.

Acura is in BIG trouble and the Spies called as far back as the launch of the RL.

Such a shame for a company that has made some great cars over the years.

But if you meet their management, you'll understand.

001

"But if you meet their management, you'll understand."

Interesting statement 001, can (will) you expound?

A vehicle with 100 more horsepower loses this comparo?
Sure C&D.

Surprise surprise, Car and Driver picks the BMW, maybe that is why no one repects that magazine. I will stick to MotorTrend, which did a comparison and the G took down the 335.

So you think the Jeep SRT8 is better than the 370z because it has almost 100 less horsepower. Good reasoning

david999, your reasoning is so flawed, and people think I'm you? FXXX those idots.

They are not comparing jeeps to sports cars here, they are comparing vehicles in the same class.

typical bias and fanboys ranting on and on. Mr. Brat hit the nail on the head...I'll stick to the consumer reports articles where the are NO advertisements.

Car & Driver chose a BMW to win? Shocker (not so subtle sarcasm intended)

Hey its Car and Driver what did you expect.

30 plus and you still get plastic seats..

You guys need a big swig of Listerine to wash out the sour grapes. BMW makes BETTER CARS and YOU KNOW IT. Suck it up.

What I think what is holding the Infinity back is NVH when it comes to the 3.7 engine. Every magazine publication including C & D have said this. Some have said that there is also vibration in the gearbox. The auto does a lot better in general to quell this vibration then the 6 speed. Further most people own and buy automatics. That could be one reason why Motor Trend rated the Infinity over the BMW. Until Nissan figures out how to smooth out this engine(In fact Hyundai's engine in the Genesis Coupe rates smoother then the 370Z),It will never be on top.As for interior trim I still think Infiniti is nicer then BMW(certainly nicer styled).Exterior wise it's no contest the G coupe looks stunning where the BMW coupe looks bloated. To be perfectly honest,other then the recent Z8 and 850 Coupe BMW has not produced and attractive looking car in about 2 decades.The last attractive BMW other then the Z8 and the 850 was the 6 series styled by Paul Braq.I even liked the 3.0 SI and the original 530I.Oh- I forgot the M1 sportscar.Wasn't that designed by Gandini? But modern BMW's even before the unfortunate Bangle era weren't great.But BMW still make great suspensions(although the new Jag XF and XK close the gap greatly).Further an inline 6 is always going to be smoother then a V6. However Nissan still needs to do work to bring the engine tranny up to snuff.

Dude, you are so hated. Watch your back (I agree, so I'll watch your back if you'll watch mine).

I agree VQ 35 or 37 is not a smooth engine, but then, so isn't that of E46m3, especially after 5000 rpm.

I'm a C&D subscriber as well and I read the article. It certainly did not blow the Infiniti away as the final score was 207 (Bimmer), 205 (Infiniti), the other 2 cars in the Comparo were the ones getting blown away.
Mini22, as you stated above it's the Powertrain area around NVH, Tranny, & flexibility, where the Infiniti trails the Bimmer and certainly needs to step its game up. However in all the Chassis measures they are dead even. I took my M35 in for Warranty service back in December so I had the luxury of driving an automatic G37(not the S)for 2 weeks, and ran it up and down the New Jersey turnpike from Philly to NY several times. The tranny and engine refinement weren't there, (and this within the same family lineup). In fact my first thoughts were, "too much engine for the car", Where the M35 easily muffled engine sounds and smoothly shifted the G was all abuzz and I could hear the engine at high speeds.Which begs the question for Infiniti and for any car company looking to make their mark against the Germans. At which point does offering a cheaper priced vehicle(not inferior quality - because the quality argument can be made against the 3 for it's interior)that offers more in horsepower and vehicle comforts (size, amenities, ergonomics,style,etc)hurt you in the category which is your claimed strong-suit! If Infiniti focused less on offering a cheaper version of the Bimmer and put more $$$ into the powertrain refinement area (where they trailed huge the last time also) they could beat the Germans. Just simply make it better and charge more for the car (like Lexus did.) They've already proved themselves to be credible when the the M35/45 beat the 5-series.

What a joke of an article from Car and Driver, must be why the magazine is considered trash. I will stick to real magazines like Motortrend, which did a head to head with the G and 335 and the G came out on top. Everyone has their choice, I don't have either car, but if I had to get one, it would be the G hands down, and I have test driven both of them hard.

hey if GT-R can lose to a POS M3 in C&D world, anythin is possible :)

Well I guess you are right on that one. Car and Driver will always pick the BMW no matter how much better the other car is. Guess it in good that in the real world most people use logic when picking the better car!

C&D is a cult. To them BMW drivers will go to heaven someday.

The other thing I noticed that so far no one else has, is that they didn't include the C-Class or the CTS in the comparo of middleweights.

001

I asked on their site and the reply I got that they were not available at press time.

In the article they tell you that because the CTS and C class lost in a previous comparison the did not include them. The Infiniti had a horse power increase since the last test which is why it was included.

Uh... don't you think it would have been more fair if all models were equipped the same...

TL SH-AWD automatic, Audi A4 automatic with the turbo four, Infiniti G37 manual, and BMW 328i manual.

Big duh on what would win in a car enthusiast article...

It should be interesting to see the results if and when they ever do a retest when it is an apples to apples comparison...

Car and Driver stated that they could not get all the cars with manuals due to the manufacturers press fleets being smaller than normal.

Huu, C&D compared the CTS and C-Class against the G and 3 back in January 2008. The C-Class and CTS came in fourth and third respectively.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/sedans/2007_bmw_328i_vs_2008_cadillac_cts_di_2008_m_b_c300_sport_2008_infiniti_g35_sport_comparison_test

Jealousy is a sickness Huu. Get well soon.

What a blow to the Japanese...congrats BM's!

I don't think anybody bashing the 328i has ever driven one. A RWD sedan with the stick can still come in at under 6 seconds for 0-60. Aside from that the engine has a beautiful exhaust note, the steering wheel is meaty and perfect, the six-speed has a great action and it's just an extremely satisfying car to drive. Consider that it's faster than the 330i of four years ago, once the top-of-the-line 3 Series (not M3), yet it's considered "slow" today.

I even enjoy the 328i xDrive. Just a really nice all-around sedan. The 3 can't really be beaten in this class... still.

Too bad I used to think S4 know something about car, turns out he probably never drove a G37, especially the AWD version of it.
I haven't either, but I did live w/ G35 AWD for several days. The RWD-biased AWD system is siiiiiiiiiimply amazing. No wonder NISSAN beats everyone w/ that in GT-R.

The 328i is just has good has the 335i. Except in a drag race. And yes I've them both. I said it here many months ago and many didn't believe. Now here is the proof. BMW has finally prefected the NA inline 6 in the 328i.

Just got the C&D, G37 lost to 328 '3' points in fuel economy alone, 2 to 5. How funny..... My 328 averages 23 mpg and G35 averages 20 mpg. I'll say it's 4 to 5.

And engine flexibility 3 to 4? My, since when a 7600 rpm lost to a 7000 one? NVH-wise I agree I-6 is better than V-6(though I found IS350's did a great smooth job, NISSAN needs to catch up on that), but flex? No comparison.

BIASED. BMW won, for those badgewhores dreaming of affording one. You can get mine after I got the Z370 or Z4(not decided yet).

Replied to the wrong one....

Anyway, BMW certainly has perfected I6(though I kept wondering how Porsche can do much better w/ H6), but there's limit to it, and that's why they have to resort to turbo to stay competitive.

I in fact like to see BMW tries H6.

Why all the banter? Especially concerning a Car & Driver article, that's almost as bad as one from Motor Trend. It's your money buy whatever you like!

I'm a C&D subscriber as well and I read the article. It certainly did not blow the Infiniti away as the final score was 207 (Bimmer), 205 (Infiniti), the other 2 cars in the Comparo were the ones getting blown away.
Mini22, as you stated above it's the Powertrain area around NVH, Tranny, & flexibility, where the Infiniti trails the Bimmer and certainly needs to step its game up. However in all the Chassis measures they are dead even. I took my M35 in for Warranty service back in December so I had the luxury of driving an automatic G37(not the S)for 2 weeks, and ran it up and down the New Jersey turnpike from Philly to NY several times. The tranny and engine refinement weren't there, (and this within the same family lineup). In fact my first thoughts were, "too much engine for the car", Where the M35 easily muffled engine sounds and smoothly shifted the G was all abuzz and I could hear the engine at high speeds.Which begs the question for Infiniti and for any car company looking to make their mark against the Germans. At which point does offering a cheaper priced vehicle(not inferior quality - because the quality argument can be made against the 3 for it's interior)that offers more in horsepower and vehicle comforts (size, amenities, ergonomics,style,etc)hurt you in the category which is your claimed strong-suit! If Infiniti focused less on offering a cheaper version of the Bimmer and put more $$$ into the powertrain refinement area (where they trailed huge the last time also) they could beat the Germans. Just simply make it better and charge more for the car (like Lexus did.) They've already proved themselves to be credible when the the M35/45 beat the 5-series.

I'd already lost respect for C&D long before this little post. I'd take whatever they have to say with a grain of salt.