First Drive: 2010 Lexus HS 250h. Is This Lexus Competitor To BMW 335d BluePerformance?

"Is This Lexus Competitor To BMW 335d...?"

I don't see how it could be. Aside from the fact that they are both four door cars, the 335d and this car do nothing alike. One is fast, one is slow, one gets very good fuel economy, the other is designed primarily only for fuel economy, one is a sports sedan, the other all about luxury, and finally one costs about $10k more than the other. Someone who actually likes the attributes of one is probably not going to like much about the other.

A better comparison would be to the 320d, since they're both more about fuel economy than anything else (though a 320d gets much better fuel economy than the HS250h). Since the 320d isn't available here we'll have to see how sales stack up in other markets.

— JRobUSC:

| (though a 320d gets much better fuel economy than
| the HS250h).

Do not spew misinformation.

BMW 320d returns real life fuel economy of 6.61 l/100km = 35.6 mpg [1]

Lexus HS250h gets the same EPA rating as the Camry Hybrid so it will return same real life mileage of 36.5 mpg = 6.46 l/100km [2]

If you wan't to calculate fuel EFFICIENCY, you need to compansate for diesel fuel having 15% higher energy density. So you have:

Fuel economy:
Lexus HS250h = 36.4 mpg
BMW 320d = 35.5 mpg

Fuel efficiency:
Lexus HS250h = 36.4 mpg
BMW 320d = 35.5/1.15 = 31 mpg (of gasoline equivalent)


[1] http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/uebersicht/6-BMW/37-3er.html?fueltype=1&constyear_s=2005&constyear_e=2009&power_e=135
[2] http://fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=browseList2&make=Toyota&model=Camry%20Hybrid

listen, Bratwurst, you can say whatever you want, and we all know how much you like to try to make yourself sound smarter than everyone else, but last time you tried going toe to toe with me I proved beyond all doubt you were a liar who was trying to invent data to prove his lies. As such I'm not interested in playing your reindeer games anymore, your credibility with me is gone.

1) The ratings for the 320d are a combined 49.6mpg (UK). For the U.S. that would be 41.3mpg, and that's much higher than the HS250h. Feel free to do a simple Google search, you'll find this number everywhere.

2) Even if it wasn't rated higher, ratings schmatings -- in a real world test (the only thing that matters) conducted by an independent third party a 520d returned better fuel economy than the previous generation Prius, which itself gets about 10mpg higher than the HS250h. So while I am extrapolating a little, a lighter 320d should get even better fuel economy than the 520d, and the transitive property takes over from there: since the old Prius got better mileage than the new HS250h and the 520d got better mileage than the Prius, the 320d would get better mileage than the HS250h.

And that's all I'm going to say on the subject.

I'd like to present to potential new AutoSpies readers how the user JRobUSC serves false statements about Lexus in favor of BMW, the brand he likely promotes.

Consider this as a warning and a sample of how marketers spew lies and misinformation.


JRobUSC:

| 1) The ratings for the 320d are a combined
| 49.6mpg (UK). For the U.S. that would be 41.3mpg,
| and that's much higher than the HS250h.

JRobUSC is fully aware of the fact that British mpg ratings he quotes for the BMW 320d are based on a completely different fuel economy certification test than those according to the Lexus HS250h is evaluated.

The European policy "80/1268/EWG" is available under [1]. The American EPA policy under [2].

This makes tremendous difference. For instance the Audi A3 2.0 TFSI FWD manual is rated at combined 39.2mpg(UK)=32.64mpg(US) in the European test [3] while it is rated at combined 24 mpg (US) by the EPA [4]. The real life mpg for this car is around 9,96 l/100km=23,6 mpg(US) [5].

JRobUSC, knowing very well that European ratings significantly overestimate fuel economy, intentionally quotes them for the BMW 320d and compares them with realistic American ratings for the Lexus HS250h. A clear example of a blatant manipulation.


JRobUSC:

| 2) Even if it wasn't rated higher,
| ratings schmatings -- in a real world test
| (the only thing that matters) conducted by
| an independent third party a 520d returned
| better fuel economy than the previous generation
| Prius

This is the continuation of BMW marketer JRobUSC's blatant lies.

The real life fuel economy of the Toyota Prius II is 5,24l/100km=45mpg(US) as observed by 615+ drivers in Europe [6]. This is confirmed by 700+ American drivers getting about 47mpg [7].

Meanwhile, the BMW 520d returns real life fuel economy of ~7,70l/100km=30,5mpg(US) as observed by 89+ drivers in Europe [8].


The findings above, carefully backed with references, clearly depict JRobUSC's lies and manipulations as a BMW promoter. Readers beware. It is also worth noticing that JRobUSC never quotes his sources (this would compromise him immediately) or cherry picks them (desperately avoiding full exposure of facts as these immediately prove his falsifications).


References:
[1] http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31980L1268:DE:NOT
[2] http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/
[3] http://www.audi.co.uk/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/uk/Products/a3/pdf.Par.0050.File.pdf
[4] http://www.audiusa.com/audi/us/en2/new_cars/Audi_A3.html
[5] http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/uebersicht/3-Audi/20-A3.html?fueltype=2&constyear_s=2004&constyear_e=2009&power_s=140&power_e=150
[6] http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/uebersicht/49-Toyota/439-Prius.html?fueltype=2&constyear_s=2004&constyear_e=2008
[7] http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=browseList2&make=Toyota&model=Prius
[8] http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/uebersicht/6-BMW/38-5er.html?fueltype=1&constyear_s=2004&constyear_e=2008&power_s=125&power

Here's a link to ALL the articles about the 520d beating the Prius in an independent third party test:

http://search.aol.com/aol/search?&query=bmw+520d+vs+toyota+prius&invocationType=tb50aoldesktop

Bratwurst, I don't promote BMW am not anti-Lexus -- I'm pro "good cars" and anti "bad cars". I'm also pro "telling the truth" and anti "spinning misinformation or cherrypicking facts to promote my own agenda", which is what you consistently do. Just because you quote your sources doesn't mean you're being honest.

Ordinarily I ignore you because you've stayed clear of me ever since I caught you redhanded in your blatant attempt to misrepresent the price of a 3-Series. But if you insert yourself into my part of the conversation, I'm going to call you out for what you are. Every time. Unless you're being honest, but then I haven't seen that yet. So do us both a favor and just keep to your side of the sandbox. You're not going to like my side.

Not the most beautiful Lexus, but it will be a volume seller for them.

"Not the most beautiful Lexus." NO LEXUS IS BEAUTIFUL DAVID.

it's a corolla....ugly as sin.

and, agreed, no lexus is beautiful. some are ok.

My 1st time actually looking at this car, is that a Corolla behind those nicer rims, chrome bits and hybrid tech? And if this a rebadged Corolla (hybrid), why is it being compared to the 3 Series???

Quote from the article:

"The mpg tally? According to Lexus, you'll be the proud owner of 35 city, 33 highway, 34 combined. That easily beats other car in the entry luxury segment, the Mercedes-Benz C-Class, BMW 3 Series and Audi A4. It even beats the 1 Series. Heck, it even beats a Mini Cooper (except for the diesel, which you can't get here yet). Mind you, the HS isn't really competition for those cars, which all emphasize sporting splendor as opposed to frugal hybrid luxury."

The comparison to BMW is in price and the fact its a luxury sedan that competes with the 3 Series diesel. The same goes for MB C-Class.

Absolutely not, the Lexus is not intended to be a 3 series competitor at all. The IS is. That being said, this HS is very underwhelming for me.

Competitor to the BMW 335d? This car is a European market Toyota Avensis. With a Toyota Camry Hybrid system. It just happens to be the same wheelbase length as the Prius. Lexus comes out with a new model! Not really. It is not even a rebadged Corolla! This is not a Lexus as they do not build cars people. Believe the lies if you want to (cover your ears and talk to yourself to drown out the truth)but it is not. The 335d is a great seller in Europe. And just started sales here in the US after the first of the year. The commodity luxury Lexus is not real!!

W T F?

This is a really frumpy car. When I saw it at the NY Auto Show, I thought at first it was an L-Finessed Corolla (I know they aren't related). You would think luxury buyers would want some style with their hybrids.

Right?
http://www.gregwilliams.ca/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/2007-corolla.jpg

Please bang this time-wasting stupid post. I MEAN IT.

the mpg figure is kinda disappointing.

— monkeyrun:

| the mpg figure is kinda disappointing

Agreed.

It does what Camry Hybrid did in 2007. No progress over 3 years.

2010 Toyota Prius returns 50 mpg.
2010 Ford Fusion returns 39 mpg.
2007 Camry hybrid returns 34 mpg, what HS250h does.
2009 Ford Escape hybrid FWD returns 32 mpg.
2010 Lexus RX450h returns 30 mpp! A big SUV with 300HP and an electric boost!

And the look is wrong. Too tall, too narrow, the bonnet short, the styling not confident, the wheelbase too short.

I'm very disappointed.

yup, boring us to tears with repackaged toyota products!

this car has amazing technology and very good efficiency. but it's ugly. all they had to do was make it good looking and it would have been a HUUUUGE hit. The IS, ES, LS are beautiful cars. Even the GS with its four-door-coupe design is very sexy.

You think those cars are beautiful? Lexus fanboys must be sold old they have lost their vision.

The ES is a bloated Camry. The IS looks decent from the front, but the rear is anything but graceful. The LS is just a collection of 7-Series and S-Class design cues. And the GS having a four door coupe design? You are reaching here. CLS or Passat CC? Absolutely. The GS is a forgotten competitor to the Infiniti M, BMW 5 and Mercedes E.

Rofl blah blah blabla blaah blablaah blah blah

and its pretty funny how someone like yourself can call someone else a 'fanboy'

haha

Just spent 800 miles in a 335d averaged 37.9 mpg's, payed 20 cents less than premium, and oh yea had 280 bhp and 425 foot pounds of torque. I'd take the BMW.

So most of your driving is long distance highway, correct?

No way it averages that around town...more like 25 in town.

001

001, the 335d gives real life mixed fuel economy of 27,83 mpg = 8,45 l/100km

http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/uebersicht/6-BMW/37-3er.html?fueltype=1&constyear_s=2005&constyear_e=2009&power_s=200&power_e=220

If you want a see it in "gasoline numebrs", you need to divide the mpg by 1.15

I was driving long distance, through a lot of small to towns and I crawled through a national park. speed was every where from 35 to 90+ if you would like a look at the first stage of the trips miliage here's the link.

http://www.bmwofmurray.com/full-story1.htm

"Of course, we understand why it looks like it does... but that doesn't change the fact that, well, it looks like it does. At one point, we pulled up next to a Toyota Corolla S, the one with the aero bits, and the resemblance was uncomfortable. We wouldn't have minded a little drop in gas mileage for a bit more bite in the HS' design."

the 335d is not mentioned in the article, that's because this lexus isn't in the same realm.

I like Toyota and all, but damn, this thing is fugly! I think the shape should have been more like the new BMW 5-Series GT. EPIC fail.

Dude this is no different than the Prius and that car is selling. So, it will do all right, just what Toyota wants, a entry level luxury sedan before anyone else.

Are you blind? This thing is nothing more than a pimped out Corolla with a Prius power train.

this car has absolutely nothing to do with a 335d, which is a much more expensive fast car that gives reasonable gas mileage. 320d or 323d are its competitors, neither of which are available in the US.

This Lexus reminds me of the first Lexus IS. It was a stop gap to get something out to market first. The design is so unbalanced. The rear looks better than the front, it almost looks like it could be the front of the car. The dash is cluttered and has so many compound surfaces. It looks like what GM would come up with. Sad thing is thery will sell a lot of these because of the hybrid technolofy and Lexus name.

"Sad thing is thery will sell a lot of these because of the hybrid technolofy and Lexus name."

and just how many ugly BMWs have been sold, just for having the BMW name? and bimmers don't even have the technology that TOYOTA has in drivetrains. (altho' they do have highly refined suspensions.)

"bimmers don't even have the technology that TOYOTA has in drivetrains."

are you INSANE? BMW is renowned for it's engines. for decades, they have won award after award after award. the entire automotive journalist establishment has praised their inline sixes, in particular, for their smoothness, refinement, broad power bands and wonderful exhaust notes.

besides the innovative synergy drive powertrain, just which toyota drivetrains have generated such accolades over decades?

ask anyone who, um, has driven a car who is better known for their drivetrains--BMW or toyota--and few if any will say toyota.

Does this mean Acura is going to bring the Canadian CSX to the US. It's a more appointed Civic, give it the Civic Hybrid powertrain and you have competition.

Lexus is always forward thinking producing cars for the intelligent, environmentally conscious, and responsible individuals, thats why they use hybrids, while bimmers are mostly for fake people with delusional fantasies of wealth, power, and influence suffering from "look at me" syndrome.

Buy hybrid if you care about environment and health, what to save money on gas and to be part of the solution toward independence

Buy diesel if want to save money on gas but don't give two shits about environment and public health (diesel engine exhaust contains a number of a potent carcinogens–particulate responsible for many birth defects and other health problems, hence, banded in 5 states)

sector, exactly how do you feel?

Why do all cheap hybrids HAVE to look ugly?! This one looks terrible..