Is It Time For Lexus To Go More Sport Than Luxury Across The Product Line?

There's no point to stay in the red sea, so Lexus will only aim higher, and that's what LF-A is for. It's BMW who needs to catch up, or they'll be in the shoe of Mercedes w/ all the vaguely positioned products, in the name of filling market gap and making money.

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BMW needs to catch up??????????????????????????????????????????????????
BMW and mercedes are on 2 different levels BMW is independently owned not owned by everyone and their grandmother. what other premium brand do you know that offers 4 years maitenance on every single brand new model. I tell you what thats what makes me like the M3,M5 and the M6 alot better than any other german company out there. No one is doing it like BMW They are in a Class by themselves as for is Mercedes making the most powerful production cars with the 65 series.....CLK65....S65...CL65....SL65.

Yeah, I think so 009. I think it would'nt be a bad move on Lexuses part because, people are begining to desire fast more sportier driving dynamics in their cars and trucks. Let's face it Toyota up til now has been responding to what the masses want. Question is, are the majority of buyers willing to give up that soul-less comfy ride over the youthful spirited harsh ride? Toyota drivers are spoiled by the quiet soft refined ride. Honda drivers typically are used to the youthful harsh side of the equation. This is not my opinion, i've driven both and the Hondas typically are more fun to drive than the average Toyota but, the Toyota typically gives a more refined feel.

I think Lexus has nowhere to go in the market but to go sporty if they want to grow. But has to be model specific. I don't think it is anyone's dream to buy Lexus TRD LS460 (AMG S63/BMW M7).

Lexus does have a 4 cylinder green car. It is the HS 250h. It is available as a hybrid only and uses more recyclable material than any other car on the consumer market. Which is one of the main sources of pollution coming from cars (besides the obvious CO2 produced from the engine).
The whole point of the hybrid GS is to help in stop and go traffic and add an extra boost of power when it is needed...sort of like an electric turbo.
So I again do not see why it is pointless. If Lexus wants to lose money on hybrids, then let them. Leave getting the maximum profit per car to Audi.

Woops...was supposed to be reply to the post below.

No. Why do you need another branch of BMW? Lexus should listen to their customer base again and stop trying to be every thing to every body. Lexus has priced themselves very high, and they use to be competitive. With sales in toilet, they need to do basic things like get ride of the numb steering, better styling and drop the GS line. The hybrid model is pointless as well.

Having owned the GS for close to a year, I would have to say it is a perfect combination of sport and luxury. Having driven the competition (5 series and E class), I found the Lexus to be the best daily driver. The BMW 5 series and E class to some extent are forgetting about the luxury part of a luxury sports sedan.
So if they got rid of the GS line, it would leave Lexus out of a huge market segment.
Personally, I find the GS to be the best looking Lexus car...followed by the IS. I believe they should redesign the rest of the lineup to better match the L-finesse design language (like they did the RX).
Hybrid is pointless? The GS 450h beats V8s in terms of acceleration while having the fuel consumption of a V6. Likewise, other hybrid models also achieve the same. So I fail to see why they should get rid of them...as a huge amount of Lexus cars sold in Europe are hybrids.

I like the GS as well, but it is rather odd that the flagship outsells the executive model that is priced less. The GS has always been a so ran seller even though it is a well sorted sedan. What to do. Make it relivant to the masses. Lexus sells hybrids in Europe, well so does Hummer and they don't have hybrids (yet), but Lexus doesn't sell in the numbers to justify the model. Lexus looses tons on every car sold to say they are green? Well get green for real and stop using the lame banter that this V8 is greener than most. Really develop a green sedan with diesel or a 4 cyl. like Mercedes is doing.

The GS is hardly competitive with the old E class, much less the new one.

I think they already doing it. The IS350, IS-F, and the upcoming LS460 sport and LA-F.

Lexus can broaden their appeal, but they must be careful not to try and be all things to all people: Lexus can have its LFA, but they must in the end have normal luxury cars which are a bit softer than BMW, Audi and even MB, but which offer more pampering and superior quality and reliability. That will be the key.

Everybody is trying to copy BMW, as if we were also going to get new high speed highways with no speed limits. I say it is time to get sedans with higher profile tires, a shorter turning radius, a more upright windshield and to have the driver see all 4 corners of his car. We need a modern Volvo S90 or London Taxi.

Yes...

Lexus was quite successful in carving out a clear-cut identity for themselves. What they really need is fresh product with bold designs not to go off chasing another identity.

Didn't we just hash this out in another form

Lexus does luxury better than anybody in it class. Toyota needs to let Lexus be Lexus and not BMW.

Exactly. That is why sales is are in the tank. Lexus does need a new direction.

Lexus has won over American Car buyers not world-wide German car buyers. Don't get it twisted.

Since Lexus doesn't have an original thought in it's brain, I guess it's time for them to continue copying the Germans.

What new?

Lexus is only successfull in the US. To be a real competitor of the german brands they have to fight against them in their own markets. But the Lexus line-up is not really competitive on european markets: They need better Diesel cars (eg. 6-cylinder), they need station wagons, they need more room for individualization (more exterior colors, more interior colors, equipment) and more seperation to Toyota models (eg. different navigation systems).

"They need better Diesel cars"


They don't have diesels except for the IS220d. Lexus also can't select a proper diesel engine from Toyota because Toyota's diesel engines are average.

at a minimum, Lexus needs a sport option to its models. a further step would be to use a brand within a brand strategy (e.g. AMD & M), but so far they have ignored this segment. for very little investment they could tap into these areas and broaden their appeal without impacting their core base of isolation/luxury customers.

I've driven American, Japanese and German over the last 35 years for business racking up 1.5 million miles. My current Lexus GS comes out on top. The BMW and Audi had plenty of sport and I had my fun and share of speeding tickets. The GS has a great combination of luxury and quiet comfortable ride with all the power needed when necessary. Driving style determines the purchase. Those who want to drive hard into the corners and dapple in the triple digits, go for it. Been there, done that. Lexus fills a niche in which many of us are quite pleased.

I remember that when Acura was introduced, as the first "premium" Japanese brand, one of the engineers was questioned about the "soft" chassis tuning. He replied that if you could remove the hood ornaments and emblems, most American drivers would prefer Cadillac over Mercedes.
This is probably true......and it's definitely where Lexus went.

Texascruiser, We need more guys like you to come foreword and tell it like it really is. Obviously a few guys on this site don't get it. Seriously, owning a 50K and upwards Lexus, BMW, Merced, Audi, Jag and the likes is still considered an expensive investment not to mention auto insurance plus operating yearly cost. When it comes down to it most buyers in this class will typically have Lexus at the top or second to the top in choices on their list.

No. No way. Never.

Lexus has had success doing things their own way. That's where they are at their best (first gen SC, super quiet/super reliable cars, interior design, etc.).

They are at their worst and most vulnerable when they try and be another "me-too" in the sporty-lux arena.

It's just such a waste of Lexus' talents to keep chasing BMW when:

A - BMW is symbolic of the sports sedan biz

B - Even with BMW, the "sporty" appeal is more about image than about actual drivers using the cars' abilities

I think Lexus needs to keep their focus on the real world needs of drivers, and not the fantasy-land of morning commutes that resemble Hot Wheels tracks.

Two words for Lexus:

TWIN TURBO.

Lexus, you already own reliability, luxury, prestige, styling. Now force induce your sporty models like BMW, Audi, Mercedes, VW, Volvo, Mazda, Mitsubishi have already done and you will stop the hemorrhaging of potential buyers away from your brand.

I bought a BMW 335i only for the engine. The IS 350 had everything else going for it.

why can't they be both?

Lotus Evora has a Toyota Camry V6 engine. Imagine if Lexus made a sports car like the Evora with a V6 camry engine? All you fanboys would laugh at them for the next 100 years.

It's too complicated...too hard...to many fuel economy things going on in toyota to do a full frontal assault on performance with Lexus. Plus to many of my friends mom's drive them