RANT: Where Is BMW Going?

going down in design department IMO.

JUGNU

"Where Is BMW Going?"

Nowhere. BMW never went broke underestimating the stupidity of its buyers. As long as the morons are spending money, it's business as usual at BMW.

Almost makes you long for the days of Chris Bangle!!

what's wrong with BMW building the X5/6 M??? No one questions Porsche building a Cayenne Turbo S or Benz building an ML63/G55. And BMW must know what they're talking about given that the X5/6 M is .2 of a second quicker to 60 than the porsche that costs $35,000 more.

Bottom line: BMW doesnt give a crap what you think. When you're at the top, everyone will try and emulate you and tear you down simultaneously, so the more they hear of haters ranting about thier cars, the better job they assume they must be doing.

So be my guest....rant away!!

Schnell, why are you so angry?

Nobody complained over the Cayenne?? Are you kidding?? I think every Porsche enthusiast on the planet died a little when that car was announced. I know I was outraged. And the X5/X6, 3 series-ugly-wagon, etc.. are the same thing. Why?

These brands were founded on no-compromise performance - cars that put performance first. SUV's are the antithesis of this.

This just dilutes BMW's image, and even more so for M cars. It was no different for Porsche. Mercedes survives the criticism because of the G-class which was introduced back in the 70's. In other words, we are slowly watching the BMW name, and M cars, lose their former meaning. And thats sad indeed.

I think I said this in a previous comment about a similar article:

BMW sees that M-B still sells AMG versions of everything they make and realize that they are far behind the curve. And not everybody has an M car which is still a bit of a status symbol among enthusiasts and unsuspecting street rodders.

A lot of people didn't understand why Porsche was making the Cayenne or why Audi was making this huge Q7 3-row monster or why M-B went ahead an made the GL and later the GLK. Bottom line ---- similar vehicles in the mainstream categories continue to sell and consumers increasingly want more luxurious content and prestige, therefore these supersedans and uber-SUVs exists.

what's wrong with BMW building the X5/6 M??? No one questions Porsche building a Cayenne Turbo S or Benz building an ML63/G55. And BMW must know what they're talking about given that the X5/6 M is .2 of a second quicker to 60 than the porsche that costs $35,000 more.

Bottom line: BMW doesnt give a crap what you think. When you're at the top, everyone will try and emulate you and tear you down simultaneously, so the more they hear of haters ranting about thier cars, the better job they assume they must be doing.

So be my guest....rant away!!

BMW won Formula 1 in 1983 with a Turbo charged motor. All-Wheel Drive X5's and X3's have competed successfully in numerous competitions over the last 10 years. So, BMW has a rich heritage of racing and winning with both Turbo engines AND with AWD vehicles at the highest levels of motorsport. And yet, jealous fools continue to malign BMW for forging new ground in the consumer automotive universe. Those closed-minded, ignorant folks should say "thanks" to BMW and then shut up. For everyone who thinks that M cars are bound to some formula of their own imagining, you ought to remember that the first M car after the exotic M1 was the M5, which was a big four door sedan that wasn't light, it wasn't small, but it was incredibly fun and useful in the real world (kind of like an X6 M).

I have to agree with schnell here. BMW is not building cars to fit some sort of grand model that critics like yourself have built. In fact, they are not building cars for you at all and could not care less about your thoughts. They are building cars that their market research tells them the average consumer wants. Even now, the average consumer is looking for a crossover type vehicle with killer HP. Rant all you want. All you achieve in ranting is making yourself look like an idiot.

If they care less about journalist's thoughts, then why do they loan cars and have press trips to test them?

I laugh, the majority of people I see complaining about bmw also were the ones who complained about bangles designs. BMW has progressed so many times over in the past decade, I don't know personally where they are going but hopefully their quest for niche markets strikes gold... especially as people move away from suv's and back towards station wagons again.

"The ///M division, IMO, should be strictly purist: 6 speed manual transmissions, naturally aspirated engines, ultra-lightweight body components. They don't have to be the fastest in a straight line but they should handle like no other and be fun as hell to drive. IMO, the weight limit for a ///M division vehicle should be 3500lbs."

See, here is a guy who gets it.

GreenPlease,

Why would a Forced Induction engine be considered as non "Purist"?

Turbos provide more performance. I would think that a purist would like that. Not to mention that the highest performance production car utilizes Turbos.

Look at it this way. If Purists dictated the direction of development then innovation would be non existent. We wouldn’t have things like Twin-Clutch transmissions (which I love and I’m a serious enthusiast), Forced induction engines (which have proven to offer superior performance and efficiency, BMW 335 anyone?), Anti-lock brakes, Traction Control, the list goes on and on.

I think the term Purists is being misused here. I always thought that a Purist is a person who wants minimal driver aids. I never knew that adding a turbo would make an engine less pure. Why is the line drawn at turbos? Why not dislike things like 4-valve cylinder heads, twin-cams, and Direct-Injection?

Because from a racing standpoint, turbo's will and always will lag. Sure you can minimize it, but the more hard core you go the more it will bother you having to hit the gas and let off in the corners so you don't spin out. Naturally aspirated engines although not as powerful will always be more reliable and be more predictable. Even supercharges can get power surges... not that they aren't fun, it just seriously hampers how comfortable one can be with a car. And at the end of the day if you aren't comfortable and able to predict how it's going to handle, you have a poor handling car. That is why some "purists" prefer n/a.

From a Racing standpoint?

Not to keep going on but, you do realize that rally cars are turbocharged? If rally cars were forced to use NA engines, the engine would have to be a large displacement (read: heavy) engine. Weight is the number 1 enemy of racecars btw. What else? Champcars used turbos for decades before they went out of business. Champcars raced on road courses among other venues. And then there are the drift-cars that use turbos. Drifting requires precise throttle management from the driver. If a Turbo’s were unpredictable then the drifters wouldn’t use them. There are plenty of different types of racecars that use forced-induction. Top Fuel dragsters are another type of race car that use Forced-induction. If someone is unable to drive them efficiently they are either driving a car that is out of tune, or they don’t really know how to drive a race car imo.

It still boils down to preference but current turbo charged cars give up nothing to their NA counterpoints especially when it comes to racing. In fact the turbo charged engines are better for racing because they put out large-displacement power without the weight penalty of a large-displacement engine. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Instead of de-boosting me, why don't you just provide a valid couterpoint? I Guess whoever it was that de-boosted me doesn't have a counterpoint. LOL!!!

Could not agree more. Call it an is or a ti or tii or anything except an M car. I might be willing to go up to like 3800 lbs for the M5 however ;-)

yeah, so many people complained about bangle, yet during Bangle's time at BMW, BMW sold more cars than ever. Case in point: the most highly criticized Bangle BMW, the last generation 7 series, was the best selling of any 7 series before it, so like said before, BMW obviously knows what they are doing

"BMW obviously knows what they are doing..." -- snail330i

I agree, no other marque out there can hope to sell a cramped 5000lb $100k "pseudo" SUV with the ground clearance of a sedan, rear visibility of a Lamborghini, compromised seating and cargo space of a coupe and mpg of a "real" SUV.

X6 should be called the "abomination on wheels"

Bangle created odd-shaped mis-proportioned Monstrosities IMO.

Schnell330i

BMW just like MB just LIKE AUDI sold more vehicles than ever before, FULL STOP

Easy Credit was the contributing factor.

In the last 10 years All German Manufacturers Sold more vehicles than they ever dreamed they would sell.

So your Bangle theory is flawed.

Lets make something clear here. What we BMW fanatics are mad about is not that these cars won't sell. They will sell, probably in mass quantities.

What we're pissed off about is what has happened to the BMW name. When you buy a Ferrari, you expect certain traits (glorious engines, sinewy responses, near-perfect driving dynamics). This was once true for M-cars and even BMW's - but these new introductions are destroying that.

So they can sell as many as they want, but BMW's will no longer be posted on every kids bedroom wall. I fear the day when Ferrari introduces a new SUV.

Aren't all of the Ferrari's go with an "F1" transmission? Where are the purests complaining about no 6 speed manuals? better yet, Porsche admitted they have to go with automatic transmissions because it is now making 40% of their sales. Imagine the amount of customers they would lose if they didnt offer the auto tranny. Then, they couldnt build porsches for the purests because of less income.
People who say they are "purests" make up less than 1% of that brand.

A pedal operated clutch is an archaic device. What next chokes and hand-crank starters? LOL!!

Another mid-summer (lack of car news) post. Who cares as long as the keep making fun to drive cars and keep making money. Porsche has its turbo S Cayennes Mercedes has AMG SUV and Audi has its monster V12 TDI. So what is the X6M all about? Being competitive.

Car and Driver-
"
But does anybody really need a Nürburgring-tuned, four-seat SUV in the first place? We’re not here to pass judgment, but we can tell you that if you want such a thing, the X6 M is the perfect choice."

Look I don't get this class of vehicle but the sell. So if BMW can make money on the monster like this and keep making cars like the 135i's, Godspeed.

Totally agree.

Perhaps its not even the kind of cars BMW is releasing as of late, its the timing. I don't see how the M variants of these cars will sell in this economy and do anything profitable for BMW. Also looking at the designs of their competition. Audi's new design language, that of the A5, new A4, and the yet to be unveiled new A7 and A8, MB's new E Classes, i love the S Class, it looks so official, Telsa, Fisker, their competitors designs look like they belong in the future and next generation of cars, but BMW's are already looking outdated, the 7 is alright, the X1 looks like its been out for 3 years already and it hasnt been released, the 1 series compared to the A3 is ridiculous. I don't know what BMW is doing but hey, i guess they are making dough (hopefully). BMW is making strange choices as of late and as a fanboy, i don't know what to think, where to stand or how to approach the brand.

Now this argument i agree with 100%
Did cock my head to one side when i saw the new 7 and X1; neither looks contemporary.

BMW is going where the moneys at.

No, BMW is going where the "monkeys" at.

No matter what designs they come out with.No matter what motors they place in what cars.No matter the price.They will sell.Why? because of the name.People will pay more for brand name and bragging rights. Look at Range Rover.Year after year Range Rover reliability is at the bottom of the list,yet its a fashion statement. A white Range on 22's means you have $ and $ earns respect.

I don't get all the whining about the X5/6 M cars. As long as they are adding newer models and not diluting existing ones, I am all for it. They have teams getting paid and having to fight to make a business case for all these cars, and I trust these guys to do it much better than you.

Quit your whining (lol @ the poster whos said every porsche owner died a little when the cayenne came out) and don't buy the car--if u don't like it its not for you, but there are many like me who want a little bit of this and a little bit of that and don't have a 3 car drive way or a budget so I am as and existing BMW customer very excited about the prospect of being able to get the right combination of utility, style, performance and uniqueness that all the new models are bringing to BMW.

If you think M3 an M5 should be the only ones, go get an M3 or an M5--I don't see anyone stopping you.

"The ///M division, IMO, should be strictly purist:"

Yes agree and it's sad. Like Porsche, BMW M is not pure anymore.
But i have no doubt, X6M will be stunning performance SUV. And also i am sure one of it's prime markets will be Middle East. Here people love crossovers and SUVs and with this much performance, there is a big chance they will choose it over M5, S63, Quattroporte type of cars.

JUGNU

why do you guys even bother with this shit? just because in your small opinion a car may seem pointless or ugly or whatever, doesn't mean others do. no company, bmw include, makes a product just for shits and giggles. the research for months if not years in advance to ensure a produce will sell before sinking money into it. bmw has been around for a long damn time. i'm sure they know what they are doing.

agreed! What makes all of these idiots think they have a "professional opinion"?

Small opinion?

It appears from past and present that the X6, in particular, is a polarizing vehicle among the masses. Far from small.

Purist = People who are set in thier old-fashioned ways and are unwilling to accept any change. Even if the change provides more performance. Purists are idiots.

Let's look at the X6M

Does it offer amazing best in class performance? Yes
Does it offer best in class handling? Probably
Does it offer the best, most powerful engine in it's class? Yes
Does it look extremely sporty, with nice a nice body? Yes

Sounds like a good performance SUV for me! At least now people can actually drive a fast car that handles well without having to worry about touching the ground every time!

Car and Driver-

" the fact that the X6 M is faster around the Nürburgring Nordschleife faster than the last-generation M3 pretty much says all."

or from another perspective:

"Driving the BMW X6 is a bit like watching an elephant tap dance -- you're left faintly bemused by the whole act, but not entirely sure it belongs anywhere outside a circus"

http://blogs.trucktrend.com/6244576/crossovers/2009-bmw-x6-perfectly-pointless/index.html

Wow...BMW....ooooo....aaaaaa....NOT!!!!!!

No? Wait!!
EVERYONE HAS ONE

Next they will make an M Big Wheel for the Childrens!!!

M Division will success...But X6 or X6M will fail.... I thing BMW is doing good business desicions but X6, 5GT or 3 GT are wrong....M is a good option for people that can not afford an S Porsche or an AMG...and in some cases with better performance for your money.....If MB and Porsche have High performance divisions, why BMW should not have a full M divison?....Now do not get me wrong. Those divisions are just for IMAGE, cause most of those cars are very expensive, they are not high volume sellers. So At this point the question is: Is this the right time to expand the M division?...time will tell us the history...

Jeez i dont understand "purists." All you do is spend your time complaining about how much better things used to be, while the world passes you by with its continuous improvement, progress and change.

So let me ask you: Yes the first generation BMW M's from 20+ years ago where more "pure" but name me a car manufacturer that has made their cars "purer" through 20+ years of evolution??? (or are more pure today than they were 20+ years ago) None that i can think of! Fact is, you wouldn't be able to sell an e30 M3 if it were new today. Not only would it not pass ANY modern crash safety standards, or emissions tests for that matter, but you as a consumer would be an idiot to buy it over the faster, bigger, safer, less expensive, more fuel efficient, more luxurious, run-of-the-mill Honda Accord!!!!! I think Audi says it nicely: "Progress is beautiful" and "Vorsprung durch technik"

Bottom line (again): BMW doesnt give 2 shits what you think. So "purists," you might as well stop your crotchety old-man complaining as all youre doing is wasting your time. Still think you're God's gift to car enthusiasts?? Well then lets see you build a 2000lb wonder car that has better performace, price, safety, efficiency, features etc than the modern day competition. With that said, BMW is a company made of hardcore enthusiasts that know how to build a damn good car, and i'm sure that if they wanted to, they have the know-how to build a 2500lb M5 but it would be impossible to sell a $300,000 carbon fiber sedan.

If anything, you "purists" need to be giving props to BMW for making heavy modern cars drive like they do with their industry leading use of thermoplastics, carbon fiber etc. Who wouldve thought a 5000lb+ top-heavy SUV could lap a track faster than an e46 M3!!? Progress is beautiful.

So go ahead and be a crotchety old purist grinch as the world passes you by. See where that gets you.

BMW FTW

First and foremost, the X6 is not confusing in any way to its target market. BMW would have never created the car otherwise. And some of them have the money (and desire) to have an ///M version. What's the problem?